Upgrading dipped lights

funkey_monkey

Hi,

I'm in the process of improving the poor dipped lights on my car.

I've been looking into getting some LED dipped lights to replace the H7 dipped that are currently installed.

Previously, I had put in some Nightbreaker bulbs, but their lifetime was appalling.

I've been thinking of getting something like these:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/H7-GLB477-2nd-Generation-Lumiled-ZES-New-Compact-LED-Headlights-Main-Dip-Beam/182602277008?hash=item2a83f1a090:g:gyIAAOSwBBpbqJzg:rk:1:pf:0

Does anyone on here have any experience of retrofitting these to replace halogen bulbs? I'm not concerned about the fitment process, I'm more interested in their performance and whether they comply with the regulation in terms of pitch etc.

Do they make a big improvement and if does their improved performance cause a problem for the oncoming traffic?


Thanks.

Alanstrainor

I decided to move this to the main forum so more would see it, and it's not really a DIY electrical job.

Although I have no experience with that type of bulb, I'd imagine they are poor enough. High powered yes, but I'd bet money they dazzle on-coming traffic. I'd also wonder if they are NCT complient, but don't know for certain.

What car do you have no OP?

mikeecho

I put these into projector type lens

https://www.powerbulbs.com/eu/product/philips-x-treme-ultinon-led-headlamp-h7

Costs €150

Find them to be brilliant.
I have passed the NCT with them, and never been flashed by oncoming traffic.

I read a lot of reviews before I bought them, and found that the cheaper Chinese types often overstate their lumens, and have a shorter lifespan.

B-D-P--

above COB lights didnt pass NCT for me in a 2014 skoda.

They have no focus levels. So as well as a fail in NCT, they are dangerous to you as they blind oncoming traffic.
Dont need to go into details as to how dangerous that can be.

vectra

What car OP ?
Does it have projector lamps?

funkey_monkey

It is a Xsara, so it won't have projector lamps.

Improved performance ordinary bulbs like the GE Megalight Ultra 130 are almost £30 and have a relatively short lifespan due to the performance increase.

My understanding is that the early LED lights made the error of not aligning the LED's with the filament in the halogens (top right):



I'd rather pay a small bit extra and get a similar performance with the increase in lifespan if I could be sure that they would not affect oncoming traffic. I can't see how they would if the alignment was done correctly - as the performance halogens would be kicking out a similar luminosity.

I have spoken with the vendor in my OP link and I have gone back to him again asking for confirmation of their beam pattern and cut-offs compared to the std bulbs.

Gregor Samsa

I have the same Philips bulbs as mikeecho, in a Volvo V50. They're specifically designed for projectors, and work brilliantly. Cutoff is exactly the same as the halogens they replaced, and they are a significant improvement in terms of the light thrown (the V50's dips are notoriously weak). I personally wouldn't fit them if I didn't have projectors.

mikeecho

The philips led are 6500K and 1760 lumen
https://www.philips.com.hk/en/c-p/12985BWX2/x-tremeultinon-led-headlight-bulb/specifications
Despite the powerbulb website stating 1000/1350 lumen.

Blazer

You do know those bulbs are illegal on public roads?
They might look cool and all but will blind any oncoming driver due to the light deflecting over your headlamp dirt.
It’s the reason xenons have to have headlamp washers.
Light output is fantastic though

mikeecho

Blazer wrote: »

You do know those bulbs are illegal on public roads?
They might look cool and all but will blind any oncoming driver due to the light deflecting over your headlamp dirt.
It’s the reason xenons have to have headlamp washers

I've had them without issue.
And I enquired about other regular bulbs, by the big brand names, that were not road legal.
And having compared specs etc, there were similar bulbs with the same specs that were legal.
The only reasonable explanation I could come to was that they simply had not yet been certified.

Also.. these are a massive improvement over the regular bulbs, but they are not as bright as xenons.

Xenons are twice the brightness of these philips leds

I'd recommend them for projector type lens only.

funkey_monkey

Blazer wrote: »

You do know those bulbs are illegal on public roads?
They might look cool and all but will blind any oncoming driver due to the light deflecting over your headlamp dirt.
It’s the reason xenons have to have headlamp washers.
Light output is fantastic though

I'm not looking for something to look cool - I'm driving a Xsara. What I do want is improved visibility on dipped with bulbs that have a decent luminosity and lifespan.

mikeecho

funkey_monkey wrote: »

I'm not looking for something to look cool - I'm driving a Xsara. What I do want is improved visibility on dipped with bulbs that have a decent luminosity and lifespan.

Unfortunately, with reflector headlights, led & xenons are a no go.

Try cleaning the headlight lens, toothpaste works wonders, and get some good bulbs.

Unfortunately, the brighter bulbs seem to have shorter lifespan, as they run hotter.

Gregor Samsa

Blazer wrote: »

You do know those bulbs are illegal on public roads?
They might look cool and all but will blind any oncoming driver due to the light deflecting over your headlamp dirt.
It’s the reason xenons have to have headlamp washers.
Light output is fantastic though

The thing with xenons and washers is more complicated that just that.

Headlight washers are required for ANY low beams with more than 2000 lumens output. HIDs regularly go over this threshold, but LEDs (and halogens) usually don't. The Philips ones listed above are 1760 lumen.


ECE regulation 48 (rev 12, section 6.2.9):

Dipped-beam headlamps with a light source or LED module( s) producing the principal dipped-beam and having a total objective luminous flux which exceeds 2,000 lumen shall only be installed in conjunction with the installation of headlamp cleaning device(s)

Source: Regulation No. 45.11
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=107184734

funkey_monkey

I've got my cleaning kit and uv protectant clear lacquer.
I need some decent bulbs too, but 150 notes for lights for an old non classic car is no good.
However safety at night is a priority.

colm_mcm

Halfords upgrade xenon bulbs with 1 year warranty. Just as good as nightbreakers IMO and they will replace them for free no problem if they go.

funkey_monkey

https://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductMobileDisplay?catalogId=10151&langId=-1&categoryId=165538&productId=1055413&storeId=10001


Review doesn't give them much promise. Neither did the video game I could hardly tell the difference.

colm_mcm

I have them on mine, they’re certainly brighter, but I think they’re over promising when they say they’re HID effect, they’re whiter and brighter alright, like nightbreakers or Philips Xtremevision, and they don’t last as long as regular bulbs, again like the ones mentioned. But they do have a years warranty, so if they blow you’ll get new ones. Another thing to mention is they’re ridiculously pricey if you don’t have the trade card (€57 I think vs €27)

colm_mcm

Those Philips LEDs are interesting. Are they very expensive?

mikeecho

colm_mcm wrote: »

Those Philips LEDs are interesting. Are they very expensive?

https://www.powerbulbs.com/eu/product/philips-x-treme-ultinon-led-headlamp-h7
About €150 when u use the 20%coupon

colm_mcm

Sweet baby Jesus and the orphans!

mikeecho

colm_mcm wrote: »

Sweet baby Jesus and the orphans!

But without a trade card, you could be paying 70 euro for a set of bulbs.

So double the price (for a regular joe) and you get a truly superior light.

funkey_monkey

Are the cuts offs primarily due to the headlight construction or the bulb itself?

funkey_monkey

This is the link i was initially looking for:

https://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/blog/are-led-headlight-bulbs-the-brightest/

I think what I need to know about now is the performance of the LED's within a reflector housing. A lot of the images are seemingly for projectors which do have a more defined cutoff.

Supergurrier

i wonder would they be ok on my megane as it has crap halogens but the headlights do have headlight washers

mikeecho

Supergurrier wrote: »

i wonder would they be ok on my megane as it has crap halogens but the headlights do have headlight washers

They will blind everyone and the international space station if they are put into a regular reflector type lamp.
They are only suitable for use in a projector type lamp, ie, one that looks like a glass ball.

Gregor Samsa

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Are the cuts offs primarily due to the headlight construction or the bulb itself?

It's a bit of both. Projector lights have a metal shield that creates a sharp cutoff:



But, the bulb has to be emitting it's light in the correct place for the whole things to work as designed.

Assuming the headlight is intended for H7 halogen bulbs, all H7 halogen bulbs should be made to the same dimensions, so the filament will be in the correct place to work with the reflector, lens and shield to create the proper light pattern and cutoff.

If you put an LED in that has the light being emitted in a different physical place to the filament in a halogen bulb, you won't get the correct light pattern and cutoff - the result being either you blind oncoming traffic or you don't get a good spread of light in front of you for yourself (or possibly both). If you get a LED bulb that is specifically designed to work correctly with Projector lenses (like the Philips X-Treme Ultinon one discussed above), then you'll get an optimum spread of light, and the correct cutoff so that it doesn't dazzle oncoming traffic.

Note that they will still not be approved for road use, as the Type Approval rules state that you cannot retrofit another type of light source and maintain the approval. But they will pass NCT alignment tests, give you more light (and more useful light) than halogens and not dazzle oncoming traffic.

Reflector lenses (like in your Xsara) don't have a shield, so they don't have the same kind of extreme cutoff that Projectors have (the light at the top end of the beam fades off, instead of there being a sharp line between light and darkness). That said, the reflectors are still designed for the light to emanate from a particular point. So putting the wrong type of bulb in will also have a negative effect on the light coming out of it, no matter how powerful the bulb claims to be. The Philips X-Treme Ultinon LED bulbs claim that they still work OK in reflectors, but I haven't seen them in use (or seen people reviewing them in such headlights), and it's an awful lot of money to spend to experiment and see how they work.

The fact is that any car you see with factory LED dip beams has Projector headlights, so really they technology is best suited for them. But not all LED bulbs are equal, and the cheap ones will be worse in every way than halogens.

Here's the difference between the light thrown by Reflector and Projector headlights (HIDs in these images, but the principle is the same for LEDs):

Gregor Samsa

mikeecho wrote: »

I've had them without issue.
And I enquired about other regular bulbs, by the big brand names, that were not road legal.
And having compared specs etc, there were similar bulbs with the same specs that were legal.
The only reasonable explanation I could come to was that they simply had not yet been certified.

When a headlight assembly is designed, it is given Type Approval for the specific type of bulb that it uses (halogen, LED, HID, etc), and for only that type of bulb.

It's legally impossible to put a different type of bulb into the assembly and still maintain its Type Approval. There's no certification process available to allow this to happen. So the bulbs have to be marked as for off-road use only.

This business is entirely separate to the NCT requirements for alignment, etc.

In some countries, the cops will pull you over if they suspect you have non-type approved bulbs/headlights and check. There's codes written on the headlights to say what the type approval is (https://www.hella.co.nz/en/technology/headlamps-and-inserts/decoding-the-combinations/)

Here they don't.

Cee-Jay-Cee

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Are the cuts offs primarily due to the headlight construction or the bulb itself?

Yes hence the reason you shouldn't use HID/LED bulbs in reflector lights.

mikeecho

phutyle wrote: »

When a headlight assembly is designed, it is given Type Approval for the specific type of bulb that it uses (halogen, LED, HID, etc), and for only that type of bulb.

It's legally impossible to put a different type of bulb into the assembly and still maintain its Type Approval. There's no certification process available to allow this to happen. So the bulbs have to be marked as for off-road use only.

This business is entirely separate to the NCT requirements for alignment, etc.

In some countries, the cops will pull you over if they suspect you have non-type approved bulbs/headlights and check. There's codes written on the headlights to say what the type approval is (https://www.hella.co.nz/en/technology/headlamps-and-inserts/decoding-the-combinations/)

Here they don't.

Point taken, but I was referring to regular h7 halogen, that are 55w, but marked for off road/show only.

As for the led h7 in my car, the beam cuts off exactly where the halogens cut off, so no difference other than brightness/whiteness.

I'm happy with them, and no other driver has been affected.

funkey_monkey

Reflector lenses (like in your Xsara) don't have a shield

Xsara does have a shield as visible in the below image:

ArrBee

Interesting thread.
Now I know why so many cars are blinding with low beams!

OP, out of interest, how long did you get from your nightbreakers?

funkey_monkey

Not even a year - so the amount of driving hours would have been quite low. When one bust, I just replaced with a std bulb. The second died soon afterwards.

Gregor Samsa

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Xsara does have a shield as visible in the below image:

That shield in a reflector lamp reduces glare but it doesn't produce the sharp cutoff that the shield in a projector headlight does:

ArrBee

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Not even a year - so the amount of driving hours would have been quite low. When one bust, I just replaced with a std bulb. The second died soon afterwards.

Interesting,
I've had mine in over 1 year now and I leave my lights on auto so they are on a good bit.

I hope they last a while yet as I've been pretty happy with the improvement they gave.

colm_mcm

mikeecho wrote: »

But without a trade card, you could be paying 70 euro for a set of bulbs.

So double the price (for a regular joe) and you get a truly superior light.

I’m talking about spending €27 so you’re talking almost 6 times the price.

I do take your point that they’re probably a savage bulb. However I bought a whole 00 Citroen Xsara with test for that money 8 years ago.

funkey_monkey

phutyle wrote: »

Headlight washers are required for ANY low beams with more than 2000 lumens output. HIDs regularly go over this threshold, but LEDs (and halogens) usually don't. The Philips ones listed above are 1760 lumen.

The ones I linked to in OP are rated as 6000 per pair. My understanding is that this figure is normally a calculated value based on the voltage and is not a measured value.
Complicating this measurement the reflector will define how the light is dispersed onto the road.

I'm probably just going to get another set of nightbreakers when I fix the lights. If I had projectors I'd still be tempted by the LED's - local garage has the testing kit for lights so they could have checked it for me.

colm_mcm

They’d all be 12 volt regardless

selous

don't know if this is of any use to you.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/76760/best-car-headlight-bulbs-to-buy-2018


And a few explanations on the other types of bulbs.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/search/site/bulbs

funkey_monkey

colm_mcm wrote: »

They’d all be 12 volt regardless

Point is they are quoting luminosity values which are not obtainable in real conditions. Therefore, the rule posted previously about needing washers for bulbs over 2000 lumen could be erroneously applicable.

funkey_monkey

selous wrote: »

don't know if this is of any use to you.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/76760/best-car-headlight-bulbs-to-buy-2018


And a few explanations on the other types of bulbs.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/search/site/bulbs

Thanks - I had looked at those previously, although the comparison I seen must have been for the H4 as the GE bulb came out on top.

Note that the top rated bulb has a lifespan of only 200 hours. Leds are quoting 50,000 hours.

selous

I bought leds (h11)online for the foglights on my car the metal stem/base was minutely wider than the standard bulbs, the wouldn't fit through the hole, so got nightbreakers, pointless, they have that shield on them, just notice a glow when driving, no range at all on them.

corks finest

ArrBee wrote: »

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Not even a year - so the amount of driving hours would have been quite low. When one bust, I just replaced with a std bulb. The second died soon afterwards.

Interesting,
I've had mine in over 1 year now and I leave my lights on auto so they are on a good bit.

I hope they last a while yet as I've been pretty happy with the improvement they gave.

I got 2 yrs plus in my old car,and run lights always

kerten

corks finest wrote: »

I got 2 yrs plus in my old car,and run lights always

I use nightbreakers and philips 130% ones regularly. I use gloves when fitting them and have different lifetime of those in different cars and I keep them on always.

I can say that 6 to 12 months lifetime is what I got.

I think health of car's electrical system, number of journeys, roads where car is being used are the main factors.

Cleaning foggy lenses and making sure dip beams is not adjusted to minimum range to be nct safe is where I start generally.

funkey_monkey

I used a headlight cleaning kit on the lights and finished it off with a laquer which has resulted in some crazing/microcracks.

Can these microcracks be sanded/compounded out or have I just scrapped the headlights? Any idea as to what would have caused the cracking?

kilianmanning

colm_mcm wrote: »

Halfords upgrade xenon bulbs with 1 year warranty. Just as good as nightbreakers IMO and they will replace them for free no problem if they go.

Can you send me link to them colm?

Titzon Toast

I'm glad this thread popped up, hopefully someone here can help me. I've an 07 Honda Accord and the dipped lights are brutal on it. They're on but they throw out virtually no light at all.
Am I using the wrong bulbs in them? They're H7s.

funkey_monkey

funkey_monkey wrote: »

I used a headlight cleaning kit on the lights and finished it off with a laquer which has resulted in some crazing/microcracks.

Can these microcracks be sanded/compounded out or have I just scrapped the headlights? Any idea as to what would have caused the cracking?

Photo of the difference:

rex-x

Have to be honest, I have tried night breakers and even their newest expensive laser line and they make zero difference side by side with a normal h7

corks finest

rex-x wrote: »

Have to be honest, I have tried night breakers and even their newest expensive laser line and they make zero difference side by side with a normal h7

I used osram and they really improved mine( honda insight, previous car)

Tropheus

I presume these LEDs wouldn't get through the NCT? Not sure I'd want the hassle of swapping them out particular if the car was due yearly NCT.

kuro2k

I gave up trying to improve the light output in my reflector headlights using upgraded bulbs form philips / osram.

Decided to get a U.K. company to retrofit a set of Morimoto mled projectors into a spare set of reflector headlights I had. I only received them back yesterday so not 100% fitted but it looks like they will finally sort the light output.

Come nct I will just swop the original reflectors back in