Winter tyres?

little man disorder

So I need two tyres at present.
On since March/April this year and need replacing. 185/65/R14
I have 4 Kumho Ecowing ES01 on now and they seem good all round summer tyres. Not as good as Uniroyal in the wet but better in the dry.

Had a quick look to see what the weather predictors had to say, not they are a guide but to get a presence of mind of what winter weather could be like until March 2019.

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twoforecasts/daily-ultra-long-range.aspx?region=7&page=4

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/winter-2018-rains-to-soak-country-into-back-end-of-year/

Anyone have any good recommendations for mid-prem brand range for the coming winter?!

corks finest

Think there's a tread here already on tyres, which includes winter tyres

little man disorder

corks finest wrote: »

Think there's a tread here already on tyres, which includes winter tyres

OK, you wouldn't happen to have a link. Searched the forum a couple of times and cannot find it.

CiniO

If a set of tyres lasts your half a year, you're definitely better off buying winter tyres now for coming 6 months.

Brandwise similar as with summer tyres - generally price reflects quality.

Larbre34

Winter tyres are a total waste of money in Ireland.

Quite apart from the unpredictably of severe winter weather, effective use of winter tyres relies somewhat on a prompt and decent clearing of all roads and that other motorists would also be on winter tyres and moving at a reasonable speed, neither of which happens in snowy weather in Ireland.

A good buddy of mine runs high end fleet and driver service cars, he keeps a stock of winter tyres in the workshop for his RWD german limos and he says most of them get no use and typically expire from age before they ever turn on a road.

And those seasonal weather predictions? Charlatanism. Even with state of the art tech, 10 days is the max outlook. Want proof? Look back at some of their previous years spoofing compared to what actually occurred. In fact the British met office used to issue seasonal forecasts, albeit vague, but they gave them up due to scientific unreliability.

CJhaughey

OP I would recommend All season tyres for most of the usage you get here, up to recently All seasons fell between two stools but the technology has moved on a lot now and the newest generation are very good all round tyres (pun).
Bridgestone Weather Control A005 is a winter certified tyre (3 Peaks Mountain Snowflake 3PMSF) and has beaten the Michelin Crossclimate in several tests recently.
Its especially good in wet and dry braking beating the previous champion Michelin CC by 1.4m in the dry and 2.9m in the wet.
I'd highly recommend them as a better option to full winter tyres that give most of the advantages of winter in a less specialised package.
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2018-27-All-Season-Tyre-Shootout.htm
If those are a bit steep then the Nexen N'Blu also scored very well in the tests.
https://www.oponeo.ie/details-tyre/nexen-n-blue-4-season-185-65-r14-86-t#230695710

Cee-Jay-Cee

Larbre34 wrote: »

Winter tyres are a total waste of money in Ireland.

Quite apart from the unpredictably of severe winter weather, effective use of winter tyres relies somewhat on a prompt and decent clearing of all roads and that other motorists would also be on winter tyres and moving at a reasonable speed, neither of which happens in snowy weather in Ireland.

A good buddy of mine runs high end fleet and driver service cars, he keeps a stock of winter tyres in the workshop for his RWD german limos and he says most of them get no use and typically expire from age before they ever turn on a road.

And those seasonal weather predictions? Charlatanism. Even with state of the art tech, 10 days is the max outlook. Want proof? Look back at some of their previous years spoofing compared to what actually occurred. In fact the British met office used to issue seasonal forecasts, albeit vague, but they gave them up due to scientific unreliability.

You need to remember that Ireland extends much further than Dublin/Kildare. I live in Donegal and have needed winter tyres every year for the last 7 or 8 years. I live in a particularly hilly area and we get snow when no one else in the county does. You or your buddy may not need them but that doesn't mean no one else does.

CiniO

Larbre34 wrote: »

Winter tyres are a total waste of money in Ireland.

Quite apart from the unpredictably of severe winter weather, effective use of winter tyres relies somewhat on a prompt and decent clearing of all roads and that other motorists would also be on winter tyres and moving at a reasonable speed, neither of which happens in snowy weather in Ireland.

A good buddy of mine runs high end fleet and driver service cars, he keeps a stock of winter tyres in the workshop for his RWD german limos and he says most of them get no use and typically expire from age before they ever turn on a road.

And those seasonal weather predictions? Charlatanism. Even with state of the art tech, 10 days is the max outlook. Want proof? Look back at some of their previous years spoofing compared to what actually occurred. In fact the British met office used to issue seasonal forecasts, albeit vague, but they gave them up due to scientific unreliability.

From what op is saying, a set of tyres lasts him about 6 months, so the set he'll be buying now is going to be for period between October and late march early april.

Even if he's never going to drive them in snow, it's still better to have winter tyres than summer during that time of the year, and cost wise they are not going to be any more expensive than summer ones.

Would be pointless buying summer tyres knowing they'll only last for the winter.

Alkers

Larbre34 wrote: »

Winter tyres are a total waste of money in Ireland.

Quite apart from the unpredictably of severe winter weather, effective use of winter tyres relies somewhat on a prompt and decent clearing of all roads and that other motorists would also be on winter tyres and moving at a reasonable speed, neither of which happens in snowy weather in Ireland.

A good buddy of mine runs high end fleet and driver service cars, he keeps a stock of winter tyres in the workshop for his RWD german limos and he says most of them get no use and typically expire from age before they ever turn on a road.

And those seasonal weather predictions? Charlatanism. Even with state of the art tech, 10 days is the max outlook. Want proof? Look back at some of their previous years spoofing compared to what actually occurred. In fact the British met office used to issue seasonal forecasts, albeit vague, but they gave them up due to scientific unreliability.

I don't agree with this at all, winter tyres don't only outperform standard tyres in ice and snow, in fact once it reaches 7C or colder they offer better grip than standard tyres. That would mean they are worth fitting for a decent chunk of the year, particularly if you're only driving at early am and late evening times.

Kenny Logins

Larbre34 wrote: »

Quite apart from the unpredictably of severe winter weather, effective use of winter tyres relies somewhat on a prompt and decent clearing of all roads and that other motorists would also be on winter tyres and moving at a reasonable speed, neither of which happens in snowy weather in Ireland.

I watched a YouTube video earlier that said winter tyres grip by trapping compacted snow in the treads.

https://youtu.be/wUxo2KmO4OI?t=88

BlackandGreen

I'll be purchasing either winter or all season tyres come november myself, or when the temps really start dipping because of the roads I have to use near daily. 
The only thing that puts me off winter tyres is that even in december/january the daytime temps can be well above 7 degrees. Not unusual the past few to be 12-15 degrees during the day. So when I'm doing day time driving, a winter tyre will perform poorly from what I understand. So thats why I'm thinking the Bridgestone Weather Control A005 might be a better idea. 
I'd just hate to get caught out in the morning/evening going to work with some ice on the backroads and not have sufficient handling as a winter tyre.

CJhaughey

Ice is a pretty sketchy situation on any tyre bar a studded nordic type tyre, but in my experience running most winters and all season tyres I feel the overall security that they offer even in marginal conditions like a cold but not frozen wet road the grip level is higher than summers by a large margin.
My wifes Impreza is due a set of tyres and I am going to go with the Bridgestone A005 they aren't hugely expensive in the smaller sizes and with mostly rural roads travelled they should provide a decent bit of grip in poor conditions.

little man disorder

Thanks for the feedback all.

I traditionally use winter or highend rain tyres for winter and not one for all weather tyres but I will definitely take a look at the reviews.

I just took a look for the Bridgestone A005 tyre in my size and it looks like they don't have them.
Oponeo had recommended yokohama for my size.
One tyre I actually recognize from the first page was the yokohama and federal. The yokohama does not look that good either from the rating systems. Surprised by that as I highly recommend the S-Drive tyre from yokohama in any weather from my experience in terms of performance.
Yokohama W.drive V903 was the tyre they recommended.

Guess I will keep doing research for the minute.

Larbre34

Kenny Logins wrote: »

I watched a YouTube video earlier that said winter tyres grip by trapping compacted snow in the treads.

https://youtu.be/wUxo2KmO4OI?t=88

I dont know about the physics of that argument, the main principle behind winter tyres that I'm aware of is that they are made from a softer compound, which retains more flexibility at temps below 7C, and hence pliablility and grip. Im sure tread design complements that. They do however wear out much faster on dry roads and at temps above this.

Ive been listening to these arguments since the 09 big freeze and have yet to see any evidence for anything other than a quality brand of all-season tyre.

Yes I can see proponents talking about long freezing days in the hills of Donegal, but in severe conditions with snow up to your wheel arches they wont be a tie-breaker and in passable but treacherous conditions at crawling speeds, theres not enough margin between winter and all season boots.

Kenny Logins

Larbre34 wrote: »

I dont know about the physics of that argument, the main principle behind winter tyres that I'm aware of is that they are made from a softer compound, which retains more flexibility at temps below 7C, and hence pliablility and grip. Im sure tread design complements that. They do however wear out much faster on dry roads and at temps above this.

Yep, that is the main feature, but I was just pointing out that they don't rely on the roads being cleared to be effective.

CrankyHaus

Larbre34 wrote: »

Ive been listening to these arguments since the 09 big freeze and have yet to see any evidence for anything other than a quality brand of all-season tyre.

Yes I can see proponents talking about long freezing days in the hills of Donegal, but in severe conditions with snow up to your wheel arches they wont be a tie-breaker and in passable but treacherous conditions at crawling speeds, theres not enough margin between winter and all season boots.

From experience of running both tyres for a few years each, doing a good bit of driving around the country, I agree with this entirely.

ednwireland

CrankyHaus wrote: »

From experience of running both tyres for a few years each, doing a good bit of driving around the country, I agree with this entirely.

running firestone all seasons for the last two years before that ran firestone icehawks ? identical looking tread patterns. the full winters definitely felt more sure footed in the ice (youre still down to a crawl but dont feel like your heading for the ditch on the corners. the all seasons definitely feel slightly slippier.)

whilst in snow barely notice the difference, both tyres have zig zag sipes on them.

oh yes i live up a hill in donegal so plenty of snowy or icy mornings through the winter.

Bandito909

Anyone ever ran summer tyres on say the front axel and all seasons on the rears?

Should be fine in the summer, but in say a front wheel drive car you could change the them over when the weather gets bad.

little man disorder

Thanks all.

So the general consensus is winter tyres if you live in Donegal hills or equivalent area and all seasons if you commute the average winter morning.

Looked at the Nexen N Blue tyre and its looks grand, hopefully one of the top ten from the review is in my local tyre shop in my size. Thanks for that link @CJHaughey

Some huge difference in the wet braking test with some of these tyres.
Did not expect Uniroyal or BF Goodrich down the order in comparison to the aforementioned Nexen which I had never heard of before. I have used both BF and Uniroyal and had positives for them both in summer tyres.

@Bandito909
I have never tried mixing seasonal tyres but what I can say is I always always put the new tyres to the back of a FWD car and never to the front.
Personally I find it harder to control the back when cornering when you have more grip from the tyres on the front in a low power FWD.
When the back goes it goes and there is not a lot you can do about it without some good torque and that is something most older 1.3-1.4 petrol cars don't have. I doubt most new petrol cars would be much different either for low to mid torque without a turbo or something, that's my experience others may say differently.

OldMrBrennan83

little man disorder wrote: »

OK, you wouldn't happen to have a link. Searched the forum a couple of times and cannot find it.

Anyone know what this link is? I'm looking four tyres myself and wondering if there's much improved to what I normally buy. Search on this site is a chocolate teapot.

dr.fuzzenstein

Larbre34 wrote: »

I dont know about the physics of that argument, the main principle behind winter tyres that I'm aware of is that they are made from a softer compound, which retains more flexibility at temps below 7C, and hence pliablility and grip. Im sure tread design complements that. They do however wear out much faster on dry roads and at temps above this.

Ive been listening to these arguments since the 09 big freeze and have yet to see any evidence for anything other than a quality brand of all-season tyre.

Yes I can see proponents talking about long freezing days in the hills of Donegal, but in severe conditions with snow up to your wheel arches they wont be a tie-breaker and in passable but treacherous conditions at crawling speeds, theres not enough margin between winter and all season boots.

Thread design is crucial, the "lamellen" (the little grooves) make the tire what it is. Just a different compound on it's own wouldn't help on snow.
Crucial for me to have winter tires, living at the foot of the Alps, not so much in Ireland.

Alun

That's a slightly misleading graphic.

There's a difference in terminology between the US and EU when it comes to the terms all-season and all-weather. From what I can tell most tyres in the US (and your graphic is from there, hence the spelling of 'tires') are what they call all-season tyres and are closer to our 'summer' tyres. They also now have all-weather tyres which are closer to our all-season ones. Make sense? Here's a link from a Us based site explaining the difference over there.

https://www.tirebuyer.com/education/all-season-versus-all-weather-tires#

Many of the all-season tyres sold here have the 3PMSF (3 peaks mountain-snowflake) symbol on them which as far as the authorities in places like Germany are concerned, makes them equivalent to winter tyres from a legal standpoint.

dr.fuzzenstein

Oh yeah, I just took the graphic to show winter tires and how the pattern is important.
I would never bother with all weather tires, they wouldn't survive long in the summer at 30+ degrees and 140 km/h (that's taking it easy) commuting.

CJhaughey

I'm not so sure about all-season/all weather tyres not handling heat and high speed.
I had a set of Nokian Allweather Plus a few years back, on an Avensis T22 estate, took the car to France for a summer holiday and hammered it fully laden with Roofbox and cycle rack with 4 bikes down the péage all the way from Roscoff to Argeles Sur Mer and they didn't wear appreciably in 30+ heat or feel like driving on jelly, in 2500k of hot and hard driving.
I don't know if they would last as long as Summer tyres but I was pretty impressed by them.
At the end of the day its what you decide to fit yourself, having driven on many brands of Winter/Summer/All season tyres in the last decade I feel I have a pretty good handle on what I need but your needs may be different.
FWIW I have ordered a set of Bridgestone A005 for this winter for an Impreza that does smallish miles but in rural largely ungritted roads, I think these may be an ideal compromise for the mostly above zero conditions but cool and damp that we get here.

corks finest

corks finest wrote: »

Think there's a tread here already on tyres, which includes winter tyres

little man disorder wrote: »

corks finest wrote: »

Think there's a tread here already on tyres, which includes winter tyres

OK, you wouldn't happen to have a link. Searched the forum a couple of times and cannot find it.

No sorry,it's mixed in with some other , sorry can't remember

little man disorder

So I ended up getting all season Hankook tyres for €65 each in the end.

Seem to be grand so far.

Thanks again.

CJhaughey

I got a set of Bridgestone A005 Weather Control, too soon to give any meaningful feedback as they are only on a few days and I haven't put many miles on them.

CiniO

CJhaughey wrote: »

I got a set of Bridgestone A005 Weather Control, too soon to give any meaningful feedback as they are only on a few days and I haven't put many miles on them.

I got a set of Kleber Quadraxer 2 recently.
Didn't have a chance to test them properly yet, but reading reviews looks like they are brilliant on wet roads and very good on snow. Real life tests will verify it though.

They have B wet road rating though, so it's promising.

tossy

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

You need to remember that Ireland extends much further than Dublin/Kildare. I live in Donegal and have needed winter tyres every year for the last 7 or 8 years. I live in a particularly hilly area and we get snow when no one else in the county does. You or your buddy may not need them but that doesn't mean no one else does.

Yeah but they said 'quite apart' before they offered the opinion of their buddy you have to respect that....

Larbre34 wrote: »

I dont know about the physics of that argument, the main principle behind winter tyres that I'm aware of .....

If they had of included this in their first post then we the proponents would all be clearer on where they stood on the first hand experience slider scale, quite part from their buddys experience their own seems to be based on their limited understanding of what actually happens.

ednwireland

used to run full winters (hills of donegal) allyear round never noticed that much difference in the summer

running all seasons now great in snow but worse on ice (harder rubber at that temperature.

but most of our roads are ungritted and a couple of years ago the council changed the routes so the few roads that are gritted arent done before 9am !

Paddy@CIRL

Made the decision this year to run All Seasons for the winter this year for the first time, and store the Summers away as I'm lucky enough to have two sets of wheels at the moment. I spent a lot of time reading and researching options and for me, there's no need for a full winter tyre here as they are too much of a compromise for most of the time, especially when they give up 15-20% dry braking performance.

Our winters are pretty mild here, so ultimately decided to go with the Michelin Cross Climate Plus, which I only ordered yesterday. The sales pitch is that instead of it being a winter tyre with summer capabilities, it's a summer tyre with winter capabilities.

This was the video that swayed me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO0zyQh2l3M