Can a company send staff for drug tests?

CinemaGuy45

Just wondering what the facts and opinions are on this.

If there are industrial relations issues in a job and a company puts up a notice that it is sending staff for drug tests would this be lawful or morally correct?
The state can't just randomly pull people in off the street for drugs tests.

I know people that use drugs would not want to submit but likewise, people who have never used illegal drugs including myself find this highly insulting and degrading.

If a person has a spotless attendance and punctuality record can a company lawfully dismiss a person for refusal to submit to such a gross violation of their privacy and rights?

Not looking for watertight legal advice here I am looking for opinions on the morality and fairness of this.

dudara

What is in the job contract?

thomas anderson.

Lay off the ganja brah

CinemaGuy45

dudara wrote: »

What is in the job contract?

There would be a mix of contracts with some people never being given a copy of their contract.

wexie

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

If there are industrial relations issues in a job and a company puts up a notice that it is sending staff for drug tests would this be lawful or morally correct?

Industrial relations issues? As in there's already blood in the water and the company is looking for a beating stick?

Then I would imagine they will have done their homework and have gotten advice on whether or not there's something in the contracts they can use to justify this.

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Not looking for watertight legal advice here I am looking for opinions on the morality and fairness of this.

I don't know you're going to get far with morality and fairness in the courts. That's not really their business. It's legal and illegal they deal in and they can either go hand in hand with moral and fair or be completely opposed to it and pretty much anything in between.

wexie

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

There would be a mix of contracts with some people never being given a copy of their contract.

Doesn't need to be in the contracts, could be in the terms and conditions, policies, whatever, all that stuff you signed when you joined the company that many moons ago, probably got handed in a nice shiny folder and have never looked at since.

If you have never taken drugs then why rock the boat?

CinemaGuy45

Put my question another way for a crappy job would you sacrifice your privacy and dignity or would you seek employment in a less toxic situation?

rgodard80a

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

If there are industrial relations issues in a job and a company puts up a notice that it is sending staff for drug tests would this be lawful or morally correct?

Do the staff drive or operate heavy machinery ?
There would be clear health and safety concerns.

An employer has a legal duty of care to employ safe employees.

wexie

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Put my question another way for a crappy job would you sacrifice your privacy and dignity or would you seek employment in a less toxic situation?

Depends on whether or not I was likely to get another job quickly I guess and how much I didn't like this job, whether or not I had anything to fear from the drugstest.

Personally I'd have to say it seems you're already looking for an excuse to leave (perhaps the industrial relations 'issues' (that's a great vague word isn't it))

And you know what....you don't need an excuse to leave...

But, seeing as you're asking, if it was me I think I'd have a good think about whether or not drug use would actually be an issue in the job, whether or not someone else's drug use would be likely to impact me personally in an adverse way. I'd also have a think about whether or not the people likely to be affected by this are valued colleagues, ie do they make my working life better or worse.

And then base it on that.....of course still all on the assumption I didn't personally have anything to worry about from a drug test.

I can think of several companies I've worked where blanket drug testing was actively avoided as it would have meant closing up shop while they sort out replacing at least a third of the staff, many of those high performers or specialized functions.

Oh, and finally, I'm not sure how you see it as sacrificing anything. Privacy perhaps, but that should be outweighed by possible safety concerns, dignity.....how? Cause you might have to pee in a cup? If that would make you loose your dignity it's probably already pretty frail no?

CinemaGuy45

wexie wrote: »

If you have never taken drugs then why rock the boat?

My counter to that having never used drugs or behaved in such a way that could lead to any reasonable suspicion why should I just accept that kind of treatment?

Have never been arrested in my life never been searched and have never put myself into a situation that would raise and possible doubt.

Have always worked for how many years I am not saying but I have never seen this arise in any work situation in my entire life.

CinemaGuy45

rgodard80a wrote: »

Do the staff drive or operate heavy machinery ?
There would be clear health and safety concerns.

An employer has a legal duty of care to employ safe employees.

Yes.

Kidchameleon

OP acting like they have something to hide

wexie

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

My counter to that having never used drugs or behaved in such a way that could lead to any reasonable suspicion why should I just accept that kind of treatment?

Have never been arrested in my life never been searched and have never put myself into a situation that would raise and possible doubt.

Have always worked for how many years I am not saying but I have never seen this arise in any work situation in my entire life.

Okay so is this a just you situation? Some of the staff? All of the staff?

If it's just you there might be some suspicion but if you say you're clean then I don't see why you couldn't just go in and out with your head held high?

If it's an actual concern in the workplace then again I don't see why you'd need to be offended by it?

wexie

wexie wrote: »

If it's just you there might be some suspicion but if you say you're clean then I don't see why you couldn't just go in and out with your head held high?

I can understand the issue though, it seems like an invasion of privacy or something

wexie

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Yes.

Okay so then it's just a safety concern?

Could be an insurance requirement or something?

Again I really don't see a reason why this would be 'sacrificing your dignity or privacy'.

Odhinn

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Just wondering what the facts and opinions are on this.

If there are industrial relations issues in a job and a company puts up a notice that it is sending staff for drug tests would this be lawful or morally correct?
The state can't just randomly pull people in off the street for drugs tests.

I know people that use drugs would not want to submit but likewise, people who have never used illegal drugs including myself find this highly insulting and degrading.

If a person has a spotless attendance and punctuality record can a company lawfully dismiss a person for refusal to submit to such a gross violation of their privacy and rights?

Not looking for watertight legal advice here I am looking for opinions on the morality and fairness of this.

Yes, provided you signed a contract agreeing to it. IBM for instance does so.

CinemaGuy45

Kidchameleon wrote: »

OP acting like they have something to hide

This is an anonymous forum I could say I am a Devil worshiper who enjoys a bit of bestiality on the side for a laugh and it would not matter.:D

Guilty until proven innocent is what grinds my gears in this whole debacle.

wexie

bluewolf wrote: »

I can understand the issue though, it seems like an invasion of privacy or something

mmmaybe....I guess for me it would very much depend on how it's presented, and crucially how many other staff are subjected to this.

wexie

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

This is an anonymous forum I could say I am a Devil worshiper who enjoys a bit of bestiality on the side for a laugh and it would not matter.:D

Not sure that would show up on a drug test anyways :pac:

Look at it this way, they don't think you're guilty, they just want to verify your innocence?

AndyBoBandy

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

I have never seen this arise in any work situation in my entire life.

How many different work situations have you been involved in in your life?

Drug testing and regular random drug testing is a regular feature in the industry I’ve been in for the last 15 years.

Visconti

Define drugs ? If its illegal drugs its one thing but I would be of the impression if most employers tested for legal drugs like xanax etc many many would fail, especially management.

wexie

Odhinn wrote: »

Yes, provided you signed a contract agreeing to it. IBM for instance does so.

Many many moons ago I worked for a company where we had more than a few of the victims of IBM's drug testing policy.

There was no drug testing there

Fr_Dougal

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

How many different work situations have you been involved in in your life?

Drug testing and regular random drug testing is a regular feature in the industry I’ve been in for the last 15 years.

Yeah but that’s only to ensure quality for the Mods beers.

wexie

Visconti wrote: »

Define drugs ? If its illegal drugs its one thing but I would be of the impression if most employers tested for legal drugs like xanax etc many many would fail, especially management.

Of course illegal drugs, or legal ones you don't have a prescription for (making them illegal I guess)

CinemaGuy45

I do not want to identify the company but yes it is all staff and this situation has only arisen since the majority of staff have opted for formal representation.

Visconti

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

How many different work situations have you been involved in in your life?

Drug testing and regular random drug testing is a regular feature in the industry I’ve been in for the last 15 years.

Cant wait till they start testing builders and door staff. There will be drugs nobody has ever heard of showing up

wexie

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

I do not want to identify the company but yes it is all staff and this situation has only arisen since the majority of staff have opted for formal representation.

ah.....see.....

In that scenario I would be shocked if the company hadn't already taken legal advice and have been reassured they can indeed do this.

Sounds like it's time to dust off the aul CV to be honest.

AndyBoBandy

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

I do not want to identify the company but yes it is all staff and this situation has only arisen since the majority of staff have opted for formal representation.

Be sure of 1 thing, they’ll have done their homework on this issue before it was ever mentioned to staff.

So to answer your original question, of course they can do it as if they couldn’t, they wouldn’t.

CinemaGuy45

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Be sure of 1 thing, they’ll have done their homework on this issue before it was ever mentioned to staff.

So to answer your original question, of course they can do it as if they couldn’t, they wouldn’t.

When a company gets to that level of petty you can understand my reluctance to submit I mean what comes next?

kneemos

Irrelevant what's in your contract if it's against your civil rights.
Doubt any company would enforce drug testing if it was illegal though.

wexie

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

When a company gets to that level of petty you can understand my reluctance to submit I mean what comes next?

nothing good really.

Unless you're one of the ones they want to keep.

CinemaGuy45

Well, I do appreciate the good advice offered here thanks.

I would pass any drug test my system is clean, not afraid of a test and if I was paid for the test I would have no problem with it.

My issue is being forced for the test as I know it is meant to annoy the staff.

AndyBoBandy

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

I mean what comes next?

You pass the test, and move on with your career.

Nothing to hide is nothing to fear.

AndyBoBandy

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

My issue is being forced for the test as I know it is meant to annoy the staff.

Staff representation will probably annoy the management, so the drug testing is most likely a tit for tat response to that.

I wouldn’t be surprised if those who shouted loudest for representation (the agitators) were the ones that would/could fail the drug test! And the company probably know this.

CinemaGuy45

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Staff representation will probably annoy the management, so the drug testing is most likely a tit for tat response to that.

I wouldn’t be surprised if those who shouted loudest for representation (the agitators) were the ones that would/could fail the drug test! And the company probably know this.

It is most probably exactly like that.:D

CinemaGuy45

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

You pass the test, and move on with your career.

Nothing to hide is nothing to fear.

This is Afterhours somebody had to Goodwin the thread.:D


I might just submit if it comes to that but if it meant to annoy staff it is working.:)

wexie

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Well, I do appreciate the good advice offered here thanks.

I would pass any drug test my system is clean, not afraid of a test and if I was paid for the test I would have no problem with it.

My issue is being forced for the test as I know it is meant to annoy the staff.

But the issue here as I see it isn't the drug test is it?

If the staff have all/mostly opted for formal representation that's happened for a reason right?

Where do you stand on those issues? Does the company perhaps have a point to be putting the foot down? (regardless of the manner they're doing it in?)

I think you should be guided by those issues rather than the drug testing itself, sounds like they are just using that to get rid of troublemakers.

AndyBoBandy

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

I might just submit if it comes to that but if it meant to annoy staff it is working.:)

Can you imagine how annoyed/scared the folks who do smoke the odd spliff are at this plan? They’ll be the most vocal/nervous about it.

CinemaGuy45

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Can you imagine how annoyed/scared the folks who do smoke the odd spliff are at this plan? They’ll be the most vocal/nervous about it.

Yes, they can just grab a splif and chill out.:D

Maybe they want to WEED people out.

BattleCorp

Drug testing was written into the law but that section of the act was never enacted.

What that means is that if it is now expressly written into your terms and conditions, then you can't be drug tested.

The Company I work for has it written into the terms and conditions that they can drug test people involved in accidents. So, in our case, they can't do random drug tests because it isn't in the terms and conditions.

Bottom line, if it's not in your terms and conditions, tell them to go jump.

You might get a better answer in the Legal Forum.

1hnr79jr65

BattleCorp wrote: »

Drug testing was written into the law but that section of the act was never enacted.

What that means is that if it is now expressly written into your terms and conditions, then you can't be drug tested.

The Company I work for has it written into the terms and conditions that they can drug test people involved in accidents. So, in our case, they can't do random drug tests because it isn't in the terms and conditions.

Bottom line, if it's not in your terms and conditions, tell them to go jump.

You might get a better answer in the Legal Forum.

Also on top of this, i would question them on how they would manage the testing from a data regulation stand point under GDPR.

Seems the staff have 2 recourses to challenge this,

1. Not in T's & C's of contract
2. Data protection and personal privacy

Canis Lupus

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

to submit I mean what comes next?

Free prostate exam?

c.p.w.g.w

It seems to be easy to pass a drug test, as long as you avoid drugs at least 10 days before hand, and with some creative dietary supplement's.

I have helped lads do the above and nobody has failed yet.

In fairness, it's all be lads/gals just doing a bit of the whakey tobacy

mvl

- So I would assume there is a reason this is posted in AH and not in work problems.

See
https://www.hsa.ie/eng/Publications_and_Forms/Publications/Occupational_Health/Intoxicants_at_Work_Information_Sheet_.pdf

But if the company would decide to test staff after some event/complaint, I won't care if my peers would be annoyed by such test, I would just do it.

CinemaGuy45

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

When a company gets to that level of petty you can understand my reluctance to submit I mean what comes next?

That's a sign it's time to work somewhere else. Don't work for someone that drug tests employees if it's something you're not comfortable with or agree with.

The Rape of Lucretia

wexie wrote: »

nothing good really.

Unless you're one of the ones they want to keep.

And its always only the good ones they seem to want to keep. They are never that keen on holding on to the wasters.

Wompa1

I live and work in the US. Drug testing is the norm here. Don't partake myself so don't really care about it. Where I work, it's mandatory to do annual TB tests and get an annual flu shot. The flu shot thing p1sses me off more. Not that I think it doesn't work, it does. I'd just rather not have to get it as a healthy 30 something year old. But meh, when in Rome, I guess.

_Brian

Most modern contracts have such stipulation that you will comply with the request.

Mrs OBumble

Morally I see it as absolutely fine: why should the people who stay clean have to work extra hard to carry the dead-heads. Get rid of the latter (with even the threat of testing) and everyonw has a better day.

Cato the Elder

Wompa1 wrote: »

But meh, when in Rome, I guess.

Yes, I agree. The world must do as the Romans do.


Furthermore, I consider that Carthage must be destroyed.

Zorya

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Morally I see it as absolutely fine: why should the people who stay clean have to work extra hard to carry the dead-heads. Get rid of the latter (with even the threat of testing) and everyonw has a better day.

That's a load of old shyte. The people smoking grass at the weekends or in the comfort of their own home at the end of a hard days work are not deadheads. How about all the regular joes and josephines apathetic and hungover on Mondays, or getting through a bottle of wine on a midweek evening or jacked up on anti-anxiety meds? They are fine because they are socially acceptable, right? Who the hell are these people who ''stay clean'' - nuns?