On sick leave but getting asked to do things

Bikeboo

Hi,
I work for a large corporation but in a subdivision of it. We kind of work independently of the corporation but have the same HR etc.

I am currently on sick leave. The boss(middle management) has asked me to attend a manual handling course while I am on sick leave. I’ve been told I just have to observe. I can’t currently drive the distance required to go but another staff member is picking me up.

Is it strange to be told to attend or is this the norm?
I am also being told I MUST attend a social event that I don’t feel up to going too, am I just being awkward or is this all a bit too much.
I’ve been put under pressure for a return date too but my reason for being out is complicated and I don’t know how much I should have to disclose to the boss.

Any advice or opinions welcomed, thanks.

Loveinapril

No. Absolutely no. If you are on sick leave then you should not be attending any work events, training or otherwise. Just pick a stock response when asked about work things, like "I cannot go as my doctor advised I rest/ recouperate but as soon as I am well enough to return I will let you know". I had similar issues regarding with my boss regarding pressure to attend training while on sick leave but I just kept repeating the same thing and my boss realised I couldn't be pressured so stopped emailing/ phoning.

On another note, you cannot get paid for work while getting sick pay (state or work) so does your boss expect you to go to these things for free?

miketheDIYman

I think if you are off work on sick leave you should not be asked to do any work or attend any Social or work related events and you should send a short response to your line Manager reminding them you are on " Sick Leave " Being asked about a possible return date is acceptable in my opinion but I would respond by saying no definite date available at present as I am following Doctor's advice.

wexie

In my experience if you're off sick (certified) then most large corporations don't actually even want you onsite. Too much hassle for them the deal with if anything went wrong. What if your illness was exacerbated by whatever you're doing?

Your boss is way off the reservation with this and getting a colleague to come collect you is way out of bounds.

Unless there's some seriously pressing reason you need manual handling training (and not participating in the training won't do you any good) I wouldn't entertain it.

Tell your boss you're off sick and leave it at that, he doesn't need to know how or why, all he needs to know that your doctor doesn't think you're currently fit to fulfill your duties.

worded

As far as I know you are not insured to be on a premises while on sick leave

A former employer wouldn’t allow ppl back until the dock note expired because of this

Imagine there was any kind of work related accident and your not insured !

wexie

worded wrote: »

Imagine there was any kind of work related accident and your not insured !

I would imagine that if it is a large corporation HR would have a conniption if they heard what OP's boss is at, it leaves them open to so many headaches

Bikeboo

wexie wrote: »

In my experience if you're off sick (certified) then most large corporations don't actually even want you onsite. Too much hassle for them the deal with if anything went wrong. What if your illness was exacerbated by whatever you're doing?

Your boss is way off the reservation with this and getting a colleague to come collect you is way out of bounds.

Unless there's some seriously pressing reason you need manual handling training (and not participating in the training won't do you any good) I wouldn't entertain it.

Tell your boss you're off sick and leave it at that, he doesn't need to know how or why, all he needs to know that your doctor doesn't think you're currently fit to fulfill your duties.

Our exchanges got very complicated as I clarified one conversation with an email and she got annoyed by it, saying I had never said one of the things I was clarifying.
I am certified, I presented a physiotherapist report saying my condition is complicated and she can only review my case in another three weeks. I completely understand my boss needs a return date as I do a very specific job. The stress of being contacted is not helping and I was told it was important to the team that I put my own problems aside and attend social occasion. TBH it would just leave me too tired for my rehab the following morning.
My boss is a lovely lady but just not very good at management. I feel pressure to return as there is not enough staff and I was previously told that my absence puts the entire team under more pressure 😖 I know I need to work on being assertive but I can come across as aggressive when I do and that is something I’m trying to work on.

The hilarity about the manual handling is that I’m out with a spinal injury!!

Bikeboo

Loveinapril wrote: »

No. Absolutely no. If you are on sick leave then you should not be attending any work events, training or otherwise. Just pick a stock response when asked about work things, like "I cannot go as my doctor advised I rest/ recouperate but as soon as I am well enough to return I will let you know". I had similar issues regarding with my boss regarding pressure to attend training while on sick leave but I just kept repeating the same thing and my boss realised I couldn't be pressured so stopped emailing/ phoning.

On another note, you cannot get paid for work while getting sick pay (state or work) so does your boss expect you to go to these things for free?

Yes I guess so, during the bad snow earlier this year I went above and beyond to get work done and wasn’t paid for it, it was a right lick in the teeth!

wexie

Bikeboo wrote: »

The hilarity about the manual handling is that I’m out with a spinal injury!!

oh, so nothing serious then

_Brian

This is very inappropriate, I’d politely decline, tell the manager to chat HR about this before contacting you again.

con___manx1

If anything happens on site when yr on sick leave like you faint or collapse and bang your head when you shouldnt be in work you could sue the **** out of them.
If i was a manager id never ask anyone to do it incase they got a crazy idea of faking it and looseing the job.

Bikeboo

_Brian wrote: »

This is very inappropriate, I’d politely decline, tell the manager to chat HR about this before contacting you again.

I told her I would ask the Physio if I should attend and she said I only have to observe and show up. She twists my words when I try to state my case and as I’m also medicated, I can’t be sure of what I might or might not have said.

I accidentally sent her a draft email that didn’t say much only that it was badly written, I then clarified it by telling her my brain was fluffy!!! I mean really!!! I can’t even write an email let alone work and my role involves patient safety. Now that I say this out loud it actually seems bizarre!!

But my actual question to you is, how do I politely tell her I’m not going to either event. It seems she’ll be think with me no matter what, or is that just another aspect of improving my assertiveness.

oceanman

Bikeboo wrote: »

I told her I would ask the Physio if I should attend and she said I only have to observe and show up. She twists my words when I try to state my case and as I’m also medicated, I can’t be sure of what I might or might not have said.

I accidentally sent her a draft email that didn’t say much only that it was badly written, I then clarified it by telling her my brain was fluffy!!! I mean really!!! I can’t even write an email let alone work and my role involves patient safety. Now that I say this out loud it actually seems bizarre!!

But my actual question to you is, how do I politely tell her I’m not going to either event. It seems she’ll be think with me no matter what, or is that just another aspect of improving my assertiveness.

don't tell her politely, she is the one in the wrong here, just tell her straight out you are not attending end of...

wexie

Bikeboo wrote: »

I told her I would ask the Physio if I should attend and she said I only have to observe and show up.

What would that achieve? You won't get a manual handling cert for just showing up (or at least you shouldn't).

Bikeboo wrote: »

But my actual question to you is, how do I politely tell her I’m not going to either event. It seems she’ll be think with me no matter what, or is that just another aspect of improving my assertiveness.

Dear Bossbitch,

I'm afraid to inform you that due to the nature of my injury I will not be able to attend either the manual handling training, nor the social event.

After having discussed this with both my physiotherapist and GP/treating consultant they have both informed me that attending these events could negatively impact my recuperation and possibly even exacerbate my injury thereby delaying my return to work.

Please see attached both my original sick cert and further accompanying medical information.

Best regards,

yada yada

And if it was me I'd copy it to HR (someone suitably high up so that they may take the boss aside and have a little chat with her)

Toots

Is there a HR dept in your company?

site_owner

Go to HR

Bikeboo

Toots wrote: »

Is there a HR dept in your company?

Yes and the last person to challenge her and go behind her back to hr got bullied out of the place. I know I have an issue with standing up for myself and need to seriously get over that but I also really like my job and she will make it hell if I go to HR.

loyatemu

Bikeboo wrote: »

Yes and the last person to challenge her and go behind her back to hr got bullied out of the place. I know I have an issue with standing up for myself and need to seriously get over that but I also really like my job and she will make it hell if I go to HR.

you're asking us how to reason with someone who is clearly unreasonable. It seems your only options are:

1) Go to HR
2) Just tell your boss no, then stop checking your email.
3) Go to these events

Bikeboo

loyatemu wrote: »

you're asking us how to reason with someone who is clearly unreasonable. It seems your only options are:

1) Go to HR
2) Just tell your boss no, then stop checking your email.
3) Go to these events

Yes, I think I just needed to thrash it out with others point of view, and know she’s being difficult.
I’m not going to go to either event, and just send her updated GP reports as and when required.
Thanks, I appreciate the opions.

xtradel

Its a long slippery slope....

This is not a word of a lie but my wife was in hospital for surgery and her boss visited the day after which was nice. Except instead of a gift of flowers or chocs she brought some work folders that needed mulling over!

Teyla Emmagan

This is the maddest thing I have ever heard! She shouldn't even be contacting you about anything other than your recovery. She must have very little cop on, there is no way they would be insured if anything happened to you while you are certified sick. Tell her she is stressing you out and impeding your recovery and then disengage.

1hnr79jr65

There is no contractual reason to attend social events unless you are a holiday rep or similar and this is your job.

As for attending manual handling, you are unfit for work, training is part of work, therefor you must not attend work related activities until cleared to return.

I wouldn't even go behind her back, i would email her directly and say that would will not attend either of these events, on ground you are out sick but also social gatherings are not a contractual requirement and if she has any concerns please ask HR to direct her to relevant legislation.

this way she couldn't be seen to bully you on return to work, if there is any such instances, document time/date and as close to exact what happened but also if there were witnesses and locations (CCTV could be used for verification if someone denies being there)

This person sounds like a contemptible bully, don't take their crap, just tell them off directly on front of HR.

Another thing to consider is if you attended these events, she could argue that if you were well enough to attend then you could have been at work and feigning the illness you have.

STB.

Bikeboo wrote: »

Yes and the last person to challenge her and go behind her back to hr got bullied out of the place. I know I have an issue with standing up for myself and need to seriously get over that but I also really like my job and she will make it hell if I go to HR.

Well in this instance I think you need to.


It would total inappropriate for someone who is certified sick to attend work or even work from home for health and safety reasons. That your "boss" has requested you to attend a Health & Safety course whilst out on sick leave is laughable. That the course is manual handling whilst you are seeing a physiotherapist is even more ironic


Your boss is a liability to the company. In writing, send an email to your boss summarising her request and explain that you will have to respectfully decline, that you will not be attending a training course, work or work social events as you are on certified sick leave and that you must put yourself first. Even if you could physically attend (you cant as you are on heavy medication), that you would not think it appropriate given the certification does not allow you to return to work until medically signed off by your doctor.

Bikeboo

Another thing to consider is if you attended these events, she could argue that if you were well enough to attend then you could have been at work and feigning the illness you have.[/quote]

This thought crossed my mind today, I don’t think she grasps the severity of my condition.

But yes, having read the comments I now see I’m not nuts in thinking she’s being unprofessional.
Thanks

beauf

This is one of the craziest threads I've seen on boards.

I wonder are they trying to get you in a manual handling courses to cover themselves from a claim from your injury. Or catch you out.

Regardless of the reason it's truely bizarre.

The manager reminds me of people who hassle people to break rules ignore their dire warnings. Then when it all goes bad they want to blame everyone else. Then wonder why no one will help them the next time.

_Brian

Bikeboo wrote: »

I told her I would ask the Physio if I should attend and she said I only have to observe and show up. She twists my words when I try to state my case and as I’m also medicated, I can’t be sure of what I might or might not have said.

I accidentally sent her a draft email that didn’t say much only that it was badly written, I then clarified it by telling her my brain was fluffy!!! I mean really!!! I can’t even write an email let alone work and my role involves patient safety. Now that I say this out loud it actually seems bizarre!!

But my actual question to you is, how do I politely tell her I’m not going to either event. It seems she’ll be think with me no matter what, or is that just another aspect of improving my assertiveness.

Tell her that your currently unavailable as you are on certified sick leave and when certified fit to return you will be glad to complete all training required.

wexie

beauf wrote: »

I wonder are they trying to get you in a manual handling courses to cover themselves from a claim from your injury.

Can't say the thought hadn't occured to me to be honest. Manual handling training.....back problems....

Bikeboo....was this training long over due perhaps?

Bikeboo

wexie wrote: »

Can't say the thought hadn't occured to me to be honest. Manual handling training.....back problems....

Bikeboo....was this training long over due perhaps?

I’m there just over three years and this is the first time it has ever come up for any of the staff. Everyone has to attend, not just me.
I have a spinal issue that was aggravated bu something I had to do in work, it wasn’t anything that would be covered on a manual handling course. (I just don’t want to say too much here) it was a normal part of my days duties.

I was out of work earlier in the year when it first became an issue but I returned too soon as I let the pressure of leaving down the team get to me.

In theory, we are so short staffed I worked far beyond my health allowed, I know that’s my own fault. But the boss knows we are under extreme pressure yet refuses to get additional staff.
I met her last week and did say it wasn’t my problem and is really a HR issue. However, she told me it wasn’t, so now I think I just need to grow up and look after myself!

crazyguy01

Hi OP, with regard to the course, completely pointless you attending to observe. I am a manual handling instructor, can't and wouldn't certify any attendee until they do the practical, i.e. prove they can lift, etc...

Wanderer78

I believe if one is on sick leave, they are not covered under their employers insurance policy, this could be an angle to try. Best of luck

Bikeboo

crazyguy01 wrote: »

Hi OP, with regard to the course, completely pointless you attended to observe. I am a manual handling instructor, can't and wouldn't certify any attendee until they do the practical, i.e. prove they can lift, etc...

That’s what I thought, I did one years ago in another company and you had to lift a box. Considering I’ll be attending with crutches that’s not happening.
I will let them know today and see what reaction I get. I won’t attend regardless but it’ll be interesting to see how it’s perceived st this point.
Thanks

_Brian

Bikeboo wrote: »

That’s what I thought, I did one years ago in another company and you had to lift a box. Considering I’ll be attending with crutches that’s not happening.
I will let them know today and see what reaction I get. I won’t attend regardless but it’ll be interesting to see how it’s perceived st this point.
Thanks

If your manager is still applying pressure ask her to have a member of HR contact you ASAP so you can clarify things with them.
It really sounds like this “manager” is on a solo run on this and hasn’t a clue.

Behind the scenes I’d wonder if she hasn’t committed to having 100% of staff trained by x date and is bricking it because you are off.

OldMrBrennan83

Sounds like there's some arse covering going on with all this. Back injury and now pushing the manual handling certification hard while also being able to say you won't come to work but you can attend social events? Stay away until you're cleared to go back OP.

Bikeboo

Patww79 wrote: »

Sounds like there's some arse covering going on with all this. Back injury and now pushing the manual handling certification hard while also being able to say you won't come to work but you can attend social events? Stay away until you're cleared to go back OP.

Maybe it’s just made them aware of health and safety in general. I did not injure myself in work but it was aggravated by a new position I do, one which I really want to get back to. I actually love my job!
However the Physio is horrified with what I’m telling her and says she’s in no hurry to sign me back in. I’ve some tough decisions to make it seems. I really appreciate all the advice, thanks.

Diziet

If you are looking for a form of words to get out of the social invite, then a short email saying :
Dear X, thank you for the invitation to the social event. I am afraid I am not up to it, please give my regards to the team.
For the manual handling course, just say thank you for letting you know, you won't be in a position to attend because of being on sick leave and that you will be happy to take any training required after your return . 
In both cases, you are saying No while keeping the language positive.

Bikeboo

Diziet wrote: »

If you are looking for a form of words to get out of the social invite, then a short email saying :
Dear X, thank you for the invitation to the social event. I am afraid I am not up to it, please give my regards to the team.
For the manual handling course, just say thank you for letting you know, you won't be in a position to attend because of being on sick leave and that you will be happy to take any training required after your return . 
In both cases, you are saying No while keeping the language positive.

I just sent that I was not in s position to attend either event and I got a short reply. There was no reference to the manual handling. With regards the social event, I’m being told the least I could do is attend for s photo!
So I think I will use that positive response about the social event you gave.
I’m actually really annoyed now that I just can’t be left alone to recouperate.

Thank you for the advice.

Postgrad10

I wouldn't bother replying again. You gave your reasons clearly and that's more than enough. You are on sick leave, focus on your recovery . No more looking at work emails.

the_syco

Bikeboo wrote: »

The hilarity about the manual handling is that I’m out with a spinal injury!!

Bikeboo wrote: »

I have a spinal issue that was aggravated bu something I had to do in work, it wasn’t anything that would be covered on a manual handling course. (I just don’t want to say too much here) it was a normal part of my days duties.

Bikeboo wrote: »

I presented a physiotherapist report saying my condition is complicated

Your boss is not a nice lady. She's a bitch who is causing you stress by using emotional blackmail whilst being all smiles. Remember; it was her emotional blackmail that made you go back too soon causing your current issue!

TallGlass

Go, Slip, $$$. Imagine the field day payout a judge would have with a case with what you've mentioned.

Some times on this part of the site, I do be wondering am I actually reading this.

Your manager, knowing your out sick with a spinal injury of sorts, ask you to not only attend a manual handling course then asks you to go for a night out.

Tell her to **** off and don't reply back unless you need to.

Your as bad entertaining it and giving ifs and buts answer. The simple answer you should be giving is 'No I won't, and will contact you in due course with a return date.'

Also. This manager needs removing. She's going to end up costing this company a fortune one day with a massive claim against them.

evolving_doors

Just don't respond.
You're sick.
Not working.
Not responding.
Everything through HR.

_Brian

Postgrad10 wrote: »

I wouldn't bother replying again. You gave your reasons clearly and that's more than enough. You are on sick leave, focus on your recovery . No more looking at work emails.

Exactly.
Follow the sick leave policy if there is any mention of contacting work with updates on your condition but otherwise just let them be.

evolving_doors

Strongly worded letter from employment solicitor?
Is that too far? Seems like the manager is going a bit far too!

Postgrad10

Probably the type of manager that does things like this all the time, poor employees give an inch and the manager gets carried away with themself.

Postgrad10

Probably the type of manager that does things like this all the time, poor employees give an inch and the manager gets carried away with themself.

Ken.

If I was the op I wouldn't go to either. But I would love to find out what date will be put on the manual handling cert. The day it's done or back dated a few months.

worded

Employee answering emails outside working hours gets 6 K

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/executive-awarded-7-500-for-having-to-deal-with-late-night-emails-1.3584537%3Fmode%3Damp

nikkibikki

Bikeboo wrote:

This thought crossed my mind today, I don’t think she grasps the severity of my condition.

It shouldn't even be relevant. The fact that you are medically certified is all that is relevant.

granturismo

@OP - any updates?