Gangland criminals with respectable-sounding surnames.

political analyst

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2018/1015/1003242-courts-martinaylmer/

Martin Aylmer of Casino Park, Marino, in Dublin bought phones that were used during the murder of Michael Barr at the Sunset House, Summerhill Parade, in Dublin on 25 April 2016.

How is it that some gangland criminals have surnames that sound posh and distinctive?



Aylmer just doesn't sound like the surname of a gangland criminal, of which the surname is usually non-descript, i.e. could be from anywhere, or rough-sounding, i.e. the Limerick feuds.

goose2005

The Aylmers were (are?) a big landowning family in Meath, they financed the Grand Canal and were officers in the British Army for generations. This one must be a 'black sheep'

hatrickpatrick

Anyone can end up getting hooked on drugs and getting into debt, thus necessitating doing "jobs" for the gangs which ultimately snowball into full-on "membership". This seems to be how most people not born into crime dynasties or growing up in particularly dangerous areas with a lot of gangland activity get involved - "Ok, you don't have our €2,000, that'll be a kneecap so... Oh wait actually! We happen to be stuck for a driver for *something* on Friday afternoon, if you happened to be free we're reeeeally appreciate it..."

What a peculiar post they have to have a name that matches their crime?.

As for the general point about criminal gangs, people choose who to hang around with who to surround themselves with.

The is not enough emphases on those who don't get involved in the areas where criminal gangs are rife, why not more stories about the teenage lads who didn't get involved did not take drugs got an education played sport, went to the gym and wasn't the one outside with a fork when it was raining soup. To me, that is the definition of intelligence.

wakka12

I wouldnt have thought there was much of a connection between crime and surnames myself

AndyBoBandy

wakka12 wrote: »

I wouldnt have thought there was much of a connection between crime and surnames myself

Dick Dastardly would beg to differ

Captain Red Beard

Is there a list detailing which names are respectable and which aren't?

Gravelly

wakka12 wrote: »

I wouldnt have thought there was much of a connection between crime and surnames myself

Have a look at any regional paper anywhere in Ireland over a few months, and you will discover that certain surnames are strongly associated with crime in each region. This is usually far more geographically spread than can be accounted for by a single family. There are numerous surnames in Ireland that most people would immediately recognise as being associated with criminality.

James Brown

goose2005 wrote: »

The Aylmers were (are?) a big landowning family in Meath, they financed the Grand Canal and were officers in the British Army for generations. This one must be a 'black sheep'

No, sure weren't his family big landowners and officers in the British army for generations? He's simply a modern day version of thief.

Beechwoodspark

Frog eyes stanners is another example

“Cigars and brandy in the shelbourne with frog eyes” has such a posh ring to it.

topper75

political analyst wrote: »

Aylmer just doesn't sound like the surname of a gangland criminal, of which the surname is usually non-descript, i.e. could be from anywhere, or rough-sounding, i.e. the Limerick feuds.

Good Sir, the Limerick scum will see your Aylmer and raise you Dundon and Woodland.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Joseph P. Kennedy.

McMurphy

How does a name make you any less likely to be a criminal?

Shipman.
West.
Nielsen.

None stand out as being the name of a scummer.

Ripper/Hitler however.......

political analyst

Captain Red Beard wrote: »

Is there a list detailing which names are respectable and which aren't?

Collopy, Dundon....

political analyst

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

How does a name make you any less likely to be a criminal?

Shipman.
West.
Nielsen.

None stand out as being the name of a scummer.

Ripper/Hitler however.......

I was referring to gangland criminals, not serial killers or genocide perpetrators.



Most gangland criminals have ordinary surnames, e.g. Byrne, Smith, Gilligan, McCarthy, Keane.

James Brown

Haughey and Devalera are the dodgiest of family names that still get respect, (in some quarters) anyway. There's a head scratcher.

Ash.J.Williams

The name is Thompson, Frederick Thompson...

selwyn froggitt

Dan The Dagger Man From Dagenham

feargale

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Haughey and Devalera are the dodgiest of family names that still get respect, (in some quarters) anyway. There's a head scratcher.

Tudor?

nthclare

A lot of the Gangland people in Limerick have English name's.
It was a garrison town originally and a lot of tans settled in Limerick.

If you frequent Limerick city you'll notice that a lot of people look very English and have a different look about them.

There's a difference between the original Limerick families and the one's which originated from the UK 100+ years ago....

A lot of them have a Birmingham look about them....

Ash.J.Williams

nthclare wrote: »

A lot of the Gangland people in Limerick have English name's.
It was a garrison town originally and a lot of tans settled in Limerick.

If you frequent Limerick city you'll notice that a lot of people look very English and have a different look about them.

There's a difference between the original Limerick families and the one's which originated from the UK 100+ years ago....

A lot of them have a Birmingham look about them....

What's an English person look like?

Danzy

political analyst wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2018/1015/1003242-courts-martinaylmer/





How is it that some gangland criminals have surnames that sound posh and distinctive?



Aylmer just doesn't sound like the surname of a gangland criminal, of which the surname is usually non-descript, i.e. could be from anywhere, or rough-sounding, i.e. the Limerick feuds.[/quote

Honest?

I know a family farming near by, big operation, out and out criminals and they are Aylmers.


Organized criminality to a degree

Danzy

Matt Barrett wrote: »

No, sure weren't his family big landowners and officers in the British army for generations? He's simply a modern day version of thief.

What is breed in to the bitch comes out in the pup.

Are there still Aylmers in Meath.

Atoms for Peace

Dublin at one time had a large protestant working class, which is possibly where such posh sounding skanger surnames originated.

Dr Brown

political analyst wrote: »

I was referring to gangland criminals, not serial killers or genocide perpetrators.



Most gangland criminals have ordinary surnames, e.g. Byrne, Smith, Gilligan, McCarthy, Keane.

Don't forget "fatpuss".

Irish Guitarist

wakka12 wrote: »

I wouldnt have thought there was much of a connection between crime and surnames myself

It appears you're not familiar with Bunty McSkimming. https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12305860.60000-embezzled-granny-stole-to-give-to-charity/

Danzy

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Dublin at one time had a large protestant working class, which is possibly where such posh sounding skanger surnames originated.

Angus oSnodaigh TD one of the few voices in Dublin that has the Protestant working class accent still.

A little known lingual fact.

The Crowman

political analyst wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2018/1015/1003242-courts-martinaylmer/





How is it that some gangland criminals have surnames that sound posh and distinctive?



Aylmer just doesn't sound like the surname of a gangland criminal, of which the surname is usually non-descript, i.e. could be from anywhere, or rough-sounding, i.e. the Limerick feuds.

By respectable do you mean protestant or Anglo sounding?

Omackeral

Captain Red Beard wrote: »

Is there a list detailing which names are respectable?

McDonagh, Connors, Joyce, Hand, Ward.

corner of hells

Omackeral wrote: »

McDonagh, Connors, Joyce, Hand, Ward.

Martin McDonagh playwright
Jimmy Connors tennis player
James Joyce playwright
Eoin Hand Irish international footballer and manager
Stephen Ward Irish international footballer.

The spacer I'm married to is related to a notorious London crime family with multiple convictions and sentences served and has their name.
I'm hopeful she'll be arrested any day soon.

Omackeral

corner of hells wrote: »

Martin McDonagh playwright
Jimmy Connors tennis player
James Joyce playwright
Eoin Hand Irish international footballer and manager
Stephen Ward Irish international footballer.

Exactly. Thanks for proving my point!

Anthracite

Gravelly wrote: »

Have a look at any regional paper anywhere in Ireland over a few months, and you will discover that certain surnames are strongly associated with crime in each region. This is usually far more geographically spread than can be accounted for by a single family. There are numerous surnames in Ireland that most people would immediately recognise as being associated with criminality.

Crinnion?

Donald Trump

corner of hells wrote: »

The spacer I'm married to is related to a notorious London crime family with multiple convictions and sentences served and has their name.
I'm hopeful she'll be arrested any day soon.

Yer missus's name is Reggie Kray? :eek:

Donald Trump

Them oul' Varadkars are a notoriously criminal Irish enterprise

:pac:

steve-collins

Casino park Marino is not posh. Far from it in fact.

political analyst

Dr Brown wrote: »

Don't forget "fatpuss".

That's the nickname of Alan Bradley (an ordinary-sounding surname).

whisky_galore

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

What's an English person look like?

They have differently shaped heads and noses, quite unlike the Celtic 'Master Race'.

nthclare

whisky_galore wrote: »

They have differently shaped heads and noses, quite unlike the Celtic 'Master Race'.

They're more squinted looking, if you observe well enough you'll notice it.

It's like Kerry people, I'm not from Kerry but their men are very good looking, dark complexion and a good jaw bone.
The women in Kerry are quite attractive looking too.
Clare people aren't great looking, they have a pudgy look about them.
Galway aren't that attractive either.
Mayo no....
Sligo and Donegal have great looking people too...

goose2005

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

What's an English person look like?

BoneIdol

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

What's an English person look like?

Tommy Robinson

BoneIdol

Danzy wrote: »

Angus oSnodaigh TD one of the few voices in Dublin that has the Protestant working class accent still.

A little known lingual fact.

His no shoes wearing hippy brother and the rest of Kila should ask the queen for some smart footwear.

patsy_mccabe

I knew a Robin Banks once. He'd disappear every so often. When I'd ask him where he was, he'd say 'I was at me Nan's"

whiskeyman

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I knew a Robin Banks once. He'd disappear every so often. When I'd ask him where he was, he'd say 'I was at me Nan's"

Ann Dover?

nthclare

BoneIdol wrote: »

Tommy Robinson

You'll never see Tommy Robinson and Andy Bell in the same room....

Can ye see the resemblance ?

imme

oi posh boy!

surely there's a student somewhere who could throw together a piece on this for you OP.

Does a surname bear such connotations as 'poshness'.

ChikiChiki

nthclare wrote: »

They're more squinted looking, if you observe well enough you'll notice it.

It's like Kerry people, I'm not from Kerry but their men are very good looking, dark complexion and a good jaw bone.
The women in Kerry are quite attractive looking too.
Clare people aren't great looking, they have a pudgy look about them.
Galway aren't that attractive either.
Mayo no....
Sligo and Donegal have great looking people too...

Haha I lolled. The 3 people from Clare I know are as you described.

mick malones mauser

Forget surnames..people with the most unusual surnames can be crims, it's not just the Byrnes, Smiths, Kellys etc .
But First or Christian names among the criminal fraternity is worth doing a thesis on.
Lets start with an analysis of the fly on the wall documentary about Dublins underworld which was called Love/Hate. Main guys nickname was Nidge, which apparently is "short " for Nigel..
Now here is fun fact..No member of the Dublin working class was ever called Nigel..ever..Fact

political analyst

mick malones mauser wrote: »

Forget surnames..people with the most unusual surnames can be crims, it's not just the Byrnes, Smiths, Kellys etc .
But First or Christian names among the criminal fraternity is worth doing a thesis on.
Lets start with an analysis of the fly on the wall documentary about Dublins underworld which was called Love/Hate. Main guys nickname was Nidge, which apparently is "short " for Nigel..
Now here is fun fact..No member of the Dublin working class was ever called Nigel..ever..Fact

Usually, gangland criminals with unusual surnames are the ones whose surnames sound rough, i.e. Collopy, Dundon, Sugg.


I'm aware that one criminal was Shane Coates, who was from the same family as the composer of the theme tune of "The Dam Busters".



It was mentioned earlier in this thread that there used to be a significant Protestant working-class community in Dublin and that this may explain the posh-sounding "skanger" surnames. An example here is conticted drug dealer Paul Ainscough, who died earlier this year (I assumed the deceased here is the same person).



https://rip.ie/death-notice/paul-ainscough-drimnagh-dublin/355100


Funnily enough, there's a marriage registrar in England who has the same name!
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/world-news/sham-wedding-exposed-bride-groom-4968957

1968

political analyst wrote: »

Usually, gangland criminals with unusual surnames are the ones whose surnames sound rough, i.e. Collopy, Dundon, Sugg.


I'm aware that one criminal was Shane Coates, who was from the same family as the composer of the theme tune of "The Dam Busters".



It was mentioned earlier in this thread that there used to be a significant Protestant working-class community in Dublin and that this may explain the posh-sounding "skanger" surnames. An example here is conticted drug dealer Paul Ainscough, who died earlier this year (I assumed the deceased here is the same person).



https://rip.ie/death-notice/paul-ainscough-drimnagh-dublin/355100


Funnily enough, there's a marriage registrar in England who has the same name!
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/world-news/sham-wedding-exposed-bride-groom-4968957

Paul 'Gash' Ainscough actually died in June 2019

https://rip.ie/death-notice/paul-gash-ainscough-dublin-8-dublin/391077

He had a rap sheet going back to the late 1960s

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/This+man+sold+hard+drugs+around+here+for+yrs%2C+now+he+knows+what+it%27s...-a083068408

He may have been related to a former gangland Dublin character called Charles ‘Charlie’ Ainscough (aka Henchico) who was active in the 1940s-1960s. See:

https://comeheretome.com/2018/01/30/henchico-dublins-early-underworld-kingpin/

1968

Zambra is another unusual/surname that has gangland connections in Dublin.

Wayne Zambra of Lourdes Road, Maryland, Dublin 8 shot dead in 2006
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/garda%C3%AD-in-new-push-after-gang-murder-1.1040655

Christopher 'Git' Zambra of Galtymore Road, Drimnagh shot dead in 2014
https://www.thejournal.ie/christopher-zambra-drimnagh-1449066-May2014/

Karl Zambra - 77 convictions
https://www.thejournal.ie/man-jailed-for-selling-cocaine-to-undercover-gardai-4347935-Nov2018/

Paul Zambra
https://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0316/775314-gun-sentence/

There was only two Zambra familes in the whole island in 1911. Living in Mercer St and Cuffe St.(around the corner from each other) in Dublin.

A May Zambra was active in republican politics during the Civil War. She went on hunger strike while imprisoned aged 17.