Beginners Log

Halloween Jack

Howdy, i have popped in here asking a few questions lately about various topics, thanks to all that replied.

I thought I might borrow a concept from the Athletics forum whereby people log their training etc on an ongoing basis and chart their progress, and seeing as I’m a beginner, my hope is that if this goes well it might be a resource of sorts for anybody who finds themselves in a similar position over the next while. Alternatively it dies a death and fades into the obscure nether regions of the forum, either are fine:)

So, a bit of background, I’m 36, played a small bit of golf as a teenager around Kildare, was never a member anywherebut played with pals intbe summer who were members of Naas and craddickstown and occaisionally I played a round with my dad in other spots in the area. I would say I never displayed any natural talent whatsoever, but enjoyed getting out etc.

I then discovered various other extra curricular activities and completely left the game behind, save for a brief spell around 2005 when I bought a cheap set of clubs and hacked around stepaside for a few months.

At the start of this year, myself, my brother and my old man played a round of par 3 by chance one afternoon, and despite being hideously inept all enjoyed it. We continued playing par 3 on occaisional weekends, basically as an excuse to spend a bit of time together. I found it a bit of a nuisance initially as I had (and still have) a number of other commitments. But slowly (inevitably?) the occasional rounds of par 3 became more regular and I found myself thinking more and more about the game between rounds. In the spring I invested in clubs, shoes, attire etc, and have been playing full rounds weekly, normally interspersed with visits to the range. It’s gotten to the stage where I’m pretty much hooked:)

In terms of my recent play, I have played Stepaside and Charlesland multiple times recently and visited Wicklow once.

The rounds have been to varying degrees, bloodbaths, have shot 118 in Wicklow, normally do around 110 at Charlesland and a bit lower than that at stepaside. Best there is 101 a few weeks ago.

Yesterday evening I played 9 at Charlesland and went round in 45, by some distance my best 9 hole score, despite not hitting many good shots, didn’t lose any balls though and had no absolute disaster holes.

In terms of where the game is, it’s really too inconsistent at this stage to draw any conclusions, I spent a number of weeks being unable to do anything other than duff my tee shots, but hitting my irons pretty pure, shortly after that it was reversed and I was managing to hit decent fairway woods off the tee but proper duffing all my iron shots.

The only constant Thus far regarding the swing is that generally I slice with a longer club in my hands and pull with a mid/short iron (I’m told these are related).

Regarding short game I nearly always end up making 35-40 putts, I generally hole very few of any length and have problems getting a good lag from anything properly far away, furthermore the putting gets markedly worse the more pressure is on it, have missed many putts from 4-12 ft for par or, less often birdie. The only birdie I made since I started playing this year was the result of a tee shot to 18 inches or so, which nevertheless while putting made the hole seem about 10 feet away and around an inch in diameter

So, given we are coming in to the off season I intend to use this thread to chart my progress in practice and scoring etc and of course to grub around for any advice/tips etc I can from you guys on here:)

The initial stuff on my agenda are to find a club to join that suits (many thanks for replies on Druids Heath thread), obtain a handicap and set about getting it down a bit. I would also like to take a couple of lessons to make sure I’m not ingraining some hideous flaw into my swing and that I can practice away.

As stated I’d appreciate any tips, comments, thoughts and wisdom,

Much obliged;)

Seve OB

best of luck
tip that will probably guarantee you improving a few shots is the putting, an area where you will probably get bored practicing more than most, but it is where you can gain shots easiest.

Karl (or any of the lads) down in the greystones range is well worth a visit for a few lessons.

Lessons will improve your game immeasurably.

Get a putting lesson from Karl.

Get a short game lesson, chipping bunkers etc.

then practice. no point in practicing to much before you get the lessons as you are probably just practicing bad habits

Halloween Jack

Seve OB wrote: »

best of luck
tip that will probably guarantee you improving a few shots is the putting, an area where you will probably get bored practicing more than most, but it is where you can gain shots easiest.

Karl (or any of the lads) down in the greystones range is well worth a visit for a few lessons.

Lessons will improve your game immeasurably.

Get a putting lesson from Karl.

Get a short game lesson, chipping bunkers etc.

then practice. no point in practicing to much before you get the lessons as you are probably just practicing bad habits

Many thanks, I had contacted another pro who operates from the greystones range and we were texting to arrange a time/date and he just stopped responding, quite odd.

With a solid recommendation I’ll definitely give Karl a call.

Regarding practising putting, I’m actually looking forward to getting some solid practice in, one of the chief reasons I have for wanting to join a club is to get down and work on the putting green.

As an aside, what can the average guy expect in terms of improvement over a season with say 1 round a week and a couple of hours practice?

Is something like 36 into 25 typical? It would be useful if I could set a goal for myself for the year ahead, a realistic one more to the point;)

Seve OB

Might have been David Lewis? He operates out of Blainroe now but thing he still takes lessons in the Greystones range from time to time.
I think as a rule 36 putts per round is actually ok. Sure it not going to win you a masters, but it is solid. but maybe look at where those 36 putts are coming from. Are you getting close to the green, chipping on and 2 putting each hole from 10 foot... well, yea then there is room for improvement. Any putt less than 10 foot, you really want to be threatening the hole and sinking a good few of them. Longer putts you want to be trying to make sure that you get them close.
Are you 3putting much? If not, than that's is good, if you are, you can improve there quite easy.

25 putts per round...… That's Tiger stuff

Halloween Jack

Seve OB wrote: »

Might have been David Lewis? He operates out of Blainroe now but thing he still takes lessons in the Greystones range from time to time.
I think as a rule 36 putts per round is actually ok. Sure it not going to win you a masters, but it is solid. but maybe look at where those 36 putts are coming from. Are you getting close to the green, chipping on and 2 putting each hole from 10 foot... well, yea then there is room for improvement. Any putt less than 10 foot, you really want to be threatening the hole and sinking a good few of them. Longer putts you want to be trying to make sure that you get them close.
Are you 3putting much? If not, than that's is good, if you are, you can improve there quite easy.

25 putts per round...… That's Tiger stuff

Much obliged again, I’m definitely 2- putting from 10ft the majority of the time having chipped on the green.

I hole very little of substance, maybe hole 2 10ft + putts a round, though on a good day I’d have maybe 2 or 3 more that I’d consider goods putts but maybe a fraction unlucky etc.

When things are longer I generally really struggle to make a second putt easy, hence on the odd time I hit a green in regulation I generally end up with a bogey.

The thing I’m finding at the moment is that the weight is getting better but the alignment and stroke let me down at crucial times.

I find even a shortish put with a bit of break in it a nightmare. I try to align myself according to the break but suspect I hit across the ball meaning it plays as if there’s more break than there actually is if that makes sense.

A lesson would probably help in this regard and then a ton of repetition to feel comfortable;)

I see you are a member in greystones, I’m looking to join a club in greystones, but unfortunately due to the joining fee that is off the table for me. If you were a beginner in the area, which club would you join?

First Up

Halloween Jack wrote:

I see you are a member in greystones, I’m looking to join a club in greystones, but unfortunately due to the joining fee that is off the table for me. If you were a beginner in the area, which club would you join?

Charlesland is probably your best choice. Not especially difficult.

Halloween Jack

First Up wrote: »

Charlesland is probably your best choice. Not especially difficult.

Hi, thanks for dropping by;) Charlesland definitely ticks a lot of boxes, has good practice facilities, the staff seem friendly and the course is not intimidating.

The issues I would have with joining would be that it’s fairly pricey, being 1600 for full membership and that the back 9 is a little nondescript (Plus my old man doesn’t like that big hill). I also know an ex member there who decided to move to delgany as he felt Charlesland was run more as a pay and play type course rather than the traditional club.

I know a member in delgany who is going to bring me out next week or the week after, it’s a tad dearer than Charlesland, but may be worth it if the course is nicer and as it’s more of a traditional golf club? I’d have to wait till I’ve played it to see if it would be worth the extra few bob. I know they are bringing in a joining fee from 1st jan so would like to play it soon to avoid fee if it’s the right fit.

I’m also looking to play Druids Heath, potentially this weekend, but people have said the course can be tricky for beginners and not for everyone in any case, so again I’ll have to wait and see.

I considered Wicklow and went to play there, it’s graat value and a beautiful location but I think it’s too far away for what I want in terms of being able to practice etc.

Seve OB

I lived in woodlands for almost 8 years and my folks were there for a further 7 or so. So right on the doorstep of Charlesland and the closest I ever go to the place was taking a car down for a spin around the car park

So I've no experience of Charlesland but I do know they are run by Carr Golf now and they run a decent ship. They recently brought the credits membership over from Castleknock so might be worth your while looking at that as an option.

Only played the Heath a few times and I enjoyed it. But don't know it well enough to comment on how it would suit beginners like yourself.

Haven't played Delgany in over 20 years.

Only ever played the old Bray course, never the new one.

Wicklow is a decent track, not the longest, some testing holes but not the most difficult. It's not far. Definitely one to consider.

Personally I would recommend you pick one which you like the best. I wouldn't worry about finding an easy course. You seem to be taking it seriously so your game will adapt. I used to hack around the stones in 120 shots and it did me no harm. For my money Greystones and Delgany Bray maybe Blainroe and to a lesser extent wicklow are probably the best clubs around. As in proper clubs, teams social etc etc. Join one of them, get involved and you will find it hard to leave.

First Up

Fair enough assessment but he's not marrying the place for life. There are better courses but I would still regard Charlesland as a good combination of suitability and convenience while learning the game.

For a beginner there is a lot to be said for getting in a few holes practice so living nearby is a factor.

Halloween Jack

Thanks a mill lads for all the advice, I’ll certainly look forward to playing each of the local tracks before making as informed a decision as possible, then the fun of a handicap begins, and the small matter of trying to reduce it;)

swededmonkey

I've played delgany quite alot because a few friends are members there. It's very hilly. It doesn't seem to have fully recovered from the dry summer but I'm sure they'll have that sorted soon. Nice club and a mature course, but the hills make it a hard trek

Skyfloater

You need to compare apples with apples between Delgany and Charlesland. Social levy, GUI etc. Bray would be my choice, it has more variety than Delgany which has a few too many drive and wedge holes for me. Bray is a par 72 as well.

Halloween Jack

Skyfloater wrote: »

You need to compare apples with apples between Delgany and Charlesland. Social levy, GUI etc. Bray would be my choice, it has more variety than Delgany which has a few too many drive and wedge holes for me. Bray is a par 72 as well.

Many thanks for the response, I must have to pencil bray in for a trial run also, though for some reason it doesn’t appeal to me so much.

I have looked at delgany in one of the apps and it does seem short alright, ideally I would probably like some variety in as much as it’d Be nice to have a few holes that are short that I could feel confident in occaisionally scoring well on, but I’d also like to have to take a longer club out of my bag for a second shot a few times during a round.

In terms of the pricing I think delgany is 1920 (inclusive of gui and 200 bar levy) and Charlesland is 1700 (inclusive of gui and 100 bar levy) so it’s pretty much 1600 vs 1720, not a huge difference I guess.

In terms of value it’s a slightly different story though, delgany is I think 40e for a summer green fee on the weekend (if you can get out as a visitor) whereas we’ve paid 23e at Charlesland any time we’ve gone out on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon. That suggests I’d need to play nearly 70 rounds to recoup my sub at Charlesland, but less than 50 in delgany. Delgany also bringing in a joining fee from Jan, so options could be between the Heath, bray and Charlesland soon.

My brother still qualifies as an intermediate (damn his eyes!) so is laughing all the way to the bank regardless!

First Up

Halloween Jack wrote:

In terms of value it’s a slightly different story though, delgany is I think 40e for a summer green fee on the weekend (if you can get out as a visitor) whereas we’ve paid 23e at Charlesland any time we’ve gone out on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon. That suggests I’d need to play nearly 70 rounds to recoup my sub at Charlesland, but less than 50 in delgany. Delgany also bringing in a joining fee from Jan, so options could be between the Heath, bray and Charlesland soon.

With respect, that is completely the wrong way to look at it. You are joining a club, not haggling over a deal with a huckster in a flea market.

Being a member of a club is about a lot more than the cost per round.

Halloween Jack

First Up wrote: »

With respect, that is completely the wrong way to look at it. You are joining a club, not haggling over a deal with a huckster in a flea market.

Being a member of a club is about a lot more than the cost per round.

While I take the point on some level that being a member of a club is certainly more than cost per round and there are other important considerations such as the social aspect, sense of community general atmosphere, the primary reason I want to join a club is for the golf. My economic reality means that cost is certainly a large factor in any decision I make and the other stuff mentioned is, for the moment, secondary. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable way to approach a decision.

Seve OB

yea but you are comparing 1600 v 1720 and then breaking it down into cost per round.

if you are joining the club, cost per round comparison doesn't come into it. it is simply a case of one club being slightly more expensive than the other so you need to look at the difference and what the more expensive club has to offer and decide if you think that it is worth paying the extra 120

if you are still worried about the cost per round.....just play loads and your cost will be minimal wherever you join

First Up

Halloween Jack wrote:

While I take the point on some level that being a member of a club is certainly more than cost per round and there are other important considerations such as the social aspect, sense of community general atmosphere, the primary reason I want to join a club is for the golf. My economic reality means that cost is certainly a large factor in any decision I make and the other stuff mentioned is, for the moment, secondary. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable way to approach a decision.

Of course overall cost is a valid factor. But if you are joining for golf then convenience, room on time sheet, type of competitions that suit you, welcome for a relative beginner, practice facilities and availability of coaching should be more important to you than dividing your sub by rounds played and deciding who wins.

Halloween Jack

Seve OB wrote: »

yea but you are comparing 1600 v 1720 and then breaking it down into cost per round.

if you are joining the club, cost per round comparison doesn't come into it. it is simply a case of one club being slightly more expensive than the other so you need to look at the difference and what the more expensive club has to offer and decide if you think that it is worth paying the extra 120

if you are still worried about the cost per round.....just play loads and your cost will be minimal wherever you join

Thanks, I suppose where I was coming from is that though delgany is marginally more expensive it can seem like better value given it generally commands a premium over Charlesland on a pay and play basis generally. The actual cost per round doesn’t matter as the sub will get paid whether I play one or one hundred rounds as you say.

I will be playing delgany soon anyhow so will be in a much better position to judge it’s value to me personally soon. I will add though that I know two members there, both lovely blokes who’s judgement I would trust who have nothing but good things to say about the club in general and are fairly definitive in their praise for some of the intangible aspects of the club mentioned above.

First Up

Halloween Jack wrote:

I will be playing delgany soon anyhow so will be in a much better position to judge it’s value to me personally soon. I will add though that I know two members there, both lovely blokes who’s judgement I would trust who have nothing but good things to say about the club in general and are fairly definitive in their praise for some of the intangible aspects of the club mentioned above.

Knowing members who will help you integrate is an important plus. But the other things are not intangible; they are what matter every time you want to play or practice.

prawnsambo

Seve OB wrote: »

yea but you are comparing 1600 v 1720 and then breaking it down into cost per round.

if you are joining the club, cost per round comparison doesn't come into it. it is simply a case of one club being slightly more expensive than the other so you need to look at the difference and what the more expensive club has to offer and decide if you think that it is worth paying the extra 120

if you are still worried about the cost per round.....just play loads and your cost will be minimal wherever you join

Cost per round is one way of looking at it. For me, it's access for whatever period of time I have available to do a bit of practice/play a few holes on a weekday evening during the summer and any other time I can get to go out. So I might play 20+ competition rounds in a year, but will have been there at least another 30+ times for a bit of practice. And it's that last bit that really changes the paradigm between green fee rounds and club membership.

Halloween Jack

prawnsambo wrote: »

Cost per round is one way of looking at it. For me, it's access for whatever period of time I have available to do a bit of practice/play a few holes on a weekday evening during the summer and any other time I can get to go out. So I might play 20+ competition rounds in a year, but will have been there at least another 30+ times for a bit of practice. And it's that last bit that really changes the paradigm between green fee rounds and club membership.

Yeah my intention at least is to try and spend an hour a week on the putting green and the same on the practice range so that stuff is important

In terms of practice, does anybody have a favourite putting drill for stuff inside of 10ft? I’d say I’m luck if I hole 25% of putts from 5-10 ft, will be practising on the carpet at home until I get sorted with a club.

prawnsambo

Halloween Jack wrote: »

Yeah my intention at least is to try and spend an hour a week on the putting green and the same on the practice range so that stuff is important

In terms of practice, does anybody have a favourite putting drill for stuff inside of 10ft? I’d say I’m luck if I hole 25% of putts from 5-10 ft, will be practising on the carpet at home until I get sorted with a club.

There's an exercise that Nick Dougherty showed on Sky recently. His one started at 10 feet, but you can adjust to suit yourself.

So start at (say) five feet from the hole mark the spot with a tee and take your putt. If you get it, move out a foot and do it again. Every time you hole out, move out another foot etc. moving the tee as you go. Or you can set out the tees in advance.

I've adapted this a bit in that I'll do that exercise for flat, downhill and uphill putts in a session. I always do this exercise on an actual green on the course rather than the practice green, because there are usually harder breaks to read on the greens.

Luke Donald has one that kind of goes around the clock around a hole. So you take some balls and put them out at the required distance at different points around the hole and try and pop them all in. Keep repeating until you can get them all in without a miss.

Webbs

Halloween Jack wrote: »

Yeah my intention at least is to try and spend an hour a week on the putting green and the same on the practice range so that stuff is important

In terms of practice, does anybody have a favourite putting drill for stuff inside of 10ft? I’d say I’m luck if I hole 25% of putts from 5-10 ft, will be practising on the carpet at home until I get sorted with a club.

A drill I try is to have a clock face of balls (12,3,6,9 position) and not have a hole but a tee or a couple of tees as your target. Aiming for smaller targets helps with confidence when on the course I find.
In addition I would have a drill with a tee or marker behind the hole around 10-12in I would then look to be getting my pace consistent to finish this distance beyond the hole.

Also dont forget that PGA stats show they 'only' make 50% of putts of approx 8 feet

Seve OB

Halloween Jack wrote: »

Yeah my intention at least is to try and spend an hour a week on the putting green and the same on the practice range so that stuff is important

In terms of practice, does anybody have a favourite putting drill for stuff inside of 10ft? I’d say I’m luck if I hole 25% of putts from 5-10 ft, will be practising on the carpet at home until I get sorted with a club.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/golf/tee-to-green-lessons/watch-our-golf-expert-gives-you-a-practice-drill-which-should-improve-your-putting-35049962.html

Halloween Jack

Sincere thanks for all the replies guys, plenty to get my teeth into!

spacecoyote

Webbs wrote: »

Also dont forget that PGA stats show they 'only' make 50% of putts of approx 8 feet

This^

Don't beat yourself up over missed putts. Look at the numbers:

From 3' - 100th on PGA Tour makes 99%
From 4' - 100th on PGA Tour makes 92%
From 5' - 100th on PGA Tour makes 81%
From 6' - 100th on PGA Tour makes 70%
From 7' - 100th on PGA Tour makes 60%
From 8' - 100th on PGA Tour makes 53%
From 9' - 100th on PGA Tour makes 46%
From 10' - 100th on PGA Tour makes 41%

So, the 100th best golfer in the world is making 4/10 from 10ft. Don't beat yourself up too much over missed putts.

If I could give one piece of advice its to get yourself really comfortable over 2-3ft putts. If you are always confident from that distance, it lets you be much more positive with your longer distance putts.

If you feel like you're going to make everything from that distance then you can always putt past the hole, which improves your chances of making more putts from further out as you'll hit positive putts.

Halloween Jack

spacecoyote wrote: »

This^

Don't beat yourself up over missed putts. Look at the numbers:

From 3' - 100th on PGA Tour makes 99%
From 4' - 100th on PGA Tour makes 92%
From 5' - 100th on PGA Tour makes 81%
From 6' - 100th on PGA Tour makes 70%
From 7' - 100th on PGA Tour makes 60%
From 8' - 100th on PGA Tour makes 53%
From 9' - 100th on PGA Tour makes 46%
From 10' - 100th on PGA Tour makes 41%

So, the 100th best golfer in the world is making 4/10 from 10ft. Don't beat yourself up too much over missed putts.

If I could give one piece of advice its to get yourself really comfortable over 2-3ft putts. If you are always confident from that distance, it lets you be much more positive with your longer distance putts.

If you feel like you're going to make everything from that distance then you can always putt past the hole, which improves your chances of making more putts from further out as you'll hit positive putts.

Thanks a mill, some seriously useful advice there! I find the 2-3 footers are testy enough, have certainly missed a few. It certainly makes sense to be comfortable with them too as you’re probably guaranteed 10 over a round I’d guess.

Seve OB

thing is
you really got to kind of ignore those figures, they have all sorts of horrible putts to make on brutal tough greens

that 5 footer on a regular flat green..... well we (us semi decent mid handicap amateurs) really should all be making 80%+ of them.... and truth be told the 20% missed are bad misses. A similar 10 foot straight putt, probably 70%+ should be made.

Seve OB

get confident on simple flat putts
hit the ball where you aim it as often as you can
don't worry about misses if you hit the line you choose
you will learn to read greens better the more you play

key is, hitting the line you aim for, do that and get your pace dialled in, that is the hard part.

Halloween Jack

I’d love to get to the stage where I expect to hole stuff. Currently I’m hoping the coming miss isn’t too bad;)

dan_ep82

Have a look at the PuttOut.

Made a big difference on my shorter putts and lengthened how long I can suffer to practice putting.