What the hell should I buy?

DrPhilG

OK before you regulars shout it out, yes the e-Niro is my preferred option. But with the ongoing silence about prices, and hints coming from various places about it being around €40k for a Paddy spec, I'm forced to consider the alternatives.

I do about 25k km a year. Mostly local driving with only maybe 120km max in a day on the few days a week I go to visit my dad.

Occasional trips from Donegal to Belfast (250km round trip) and maybe 3 times a year going to Dublin although that would usually involve an overnight so a 240km one way trip.

Once a year I drive Donegal to Cork which is 520km.

I currently drive a 141 24kwh Leaf. And I don't drive it easy. Foot down, fast acceleration, fast overtaking, I hoof it wherever I go (within the speed limits).

It's really becoming a drag now though. If I go visit my dad I have to fast charge during the day or plug in at home for an hour in between. I don't do the Cork run, I just hire a car. Last time I had to go to Dublin I got the bus.

The e-Niro was ideal. Kona was too small, but the Niro has the range I need, CCS charging for future proofing and a healthy warranty. But if its going to end up north of €40k I just can't do it. If the Paddy spec is an issue I can find a way of bringing one in from the North but with their recent grant reduction I could still find myself in the same boat.

So unless the e-Niro comes out cheaper than I fear, I'm going to have to bridge the gap and buy something else to last me maybe 2 years until I can get something long term.

The options...

1 - 2018 Leaf
The bane of my life. The car I was so close to buying until I hit rapidgate head on during my test drive. The way I drive, I'd still only get maybe 175 km at best on a Belfast or Dublin run. And with rapidgate inevitable for someone with a heavy foot I'd still prefer to rent a car for the Cork trip. If they were dirt cheap I'd consider it, but they're not. Prices are still strong on second hand and ex demo.

2 - Ioniq
First off, my wife (and me too) dislike the split rear window. Other than that it's an excellent car. But the values are still quite high, and doesn't nosedive on range on the motorway. But it's still a 175 range car and I'd still most likely not want to drive to Cork in it. Plus as I say, the rear window is a killer.

3 - i3 REX
I really don't want to go back to ICE. PHEV isn't an option as the electric range is too small. So the i3 REX may be an option. It's a little snug inside but I don't need the room all that often. Great to drive and of course with the REX I'd be happy to go on a Cork run without worrying about spending half my life at chargers (God I sound like you-know-who...)

4 - e-Golf
Size and spec seem good, but I'd imagine the price is a killer. @Shefwedfan can give me more info.

5 - ICE
I really don't want to consider this option!

Budget wise, my Leaf is still worth about €10k and I have €8k saved in 3.5 years of fuel cost savings. I was prepared to go up to high 30s for the Niro, so I could live with low €20ks for a bridge car.

Plus with a second hand purchase I can import from the UK easily enough (hopefully before people realise the impact of the grant reduction and bump up used prices). For example I looked at i3 REX prices, what I can buy for £20k in the UK would cost about €27k in Dublin. So that would lessen the impact of the price if I change again in 2 years.

Thoughts???

DrPhilG

The problem with all of the current options aside from the i3 is that they help with day to day driving which is becoming a struggle in the Leaf, but don't make a huge impact on long range trips. The Ioniq for example is a lot better on the motorway and would get me to Dublin with probably only 1 charge, but the issue is that with the major increase of EVs on the road, that one charge could be at the end of a 3 car queue. I know that Ionity will help but they're not here yet.

Sabre Man

i3 REX sounds like the best option.

Soarer

Sabre Man wrote: »

i3 REX sounds like the best option.

Yup.

All pointing to the REx.

kuro68k

Renault Zoe? Similar range to the 2018 Leaf but no rapidgate problems. It's a little small but it is very cheap.

Don't fancy a Hyundai Kona either? Similar range to the eNiro, a little smaller but pricing is clear and they are available with a bit of a wait.

zilog_jones

Honestly, I'm not so sure what's so bad about the rear window on the Ioniq to make it a "killer"? I haven't driven an Ioniq specifically, but I've had a Prius with a very similar setup for 2 years and don't see any problem with it (and I've driven Civic hatchbacks with similar). Rear visibility is better than the Leaf in my experience.

Also, is it not the case with the i3 REx that once the battery is depleted and the ICE kicks in, power is severely restricted (it's only a small motorbike engine!) making it barely suitable for motorway driving?

DrPhilG

Sabre Man wrote: »

i3 REX sounds like the best option.

Soarer wrote: »

Yup.

All pointing to the REx.

Yeah I've been churning numbers and coming to the same conclusion.


It even works out cheaper in the long run.


If I buy the e-Niro now:

Cost - €40k

Value of current car and savings - €18k

Cash/finance outlay - €22k


If I bridge the gap with an i3 (which seems to have a very high value in Ireland)

Cost - €23k (imported)

Value of current car and savings - €18k

Cash/finance outlay - €5k


Cost of a 1 year old e-Niro (with 1 year depreciation plus savings due to easier import/VAT/VRT) - €33k

Value of (then 4 year old) i3 - €20k (2 year olds are currently €28k in private sales in Ireland).

Cash/finance outlay €13k


So rather than spending €22k now and having a brand new car, I'd save €5k and have an i3 for a few years and then into a nearly new e-Niro or whatever else is in the market by then.

PS I'm well aware that these figures are driven by man-math and my desire for them work but I think €5k is plenty of wiggle room.

kevin16w

Im hoping to hear from Kia this week on potential prices, specs and realistic date. But im hopeful for 38k for decent(ish) spec and delivery in April/May - if this is the case i will wait for Niro.

Otherwise i think it will be Kona - i know specs are poor for price but i think i can still live with specs and hope to beat the dealer down in price a bit....

Would the leaf be more spacious than Kona?

DrPhilG

kuro68k wrote: »

Renault Zoe? Similar range to the 2018 Leaf but no rapidgate problems. It's a little small but it is very cheap.

Don't fancy a Hyundai Kona either? Similar range to the eNiro, a little smaller but pricing is clear and they are available with a bit of a wait.

I've never liked the Zoe, pokey little car!

I actually have a Kona on order from the UK but I'm going to cancel. Too small, plus would be nearly €39k once I pay the VAT, VRT etc. At least it would be a top spec but still not prepared to spend that much money for a highly compromised (due to space) car.

DrPhilG

zilog_jones wrote: »

Also, is it not the case with the i3 REx that one the battery is depleted and the ICE kicks in, power is severely restricted (it's only a small motorbike engine!) making it barely suitable for motorway driving?

That I'm not sure, but I'll have to look into it. A friend has one so I'll ask.

DrPhilG

kevin16w wrote: »

Would the leaf be more spacious than Kona?

From what I've seen in reviews, definitely.

kevin16w

DrPhilG wrote: »

From what I've seen in reviews, definitely.

Ok, interesting. I just need the range of the niro/kona so not sure should i wait for longer range leaf as space is also needed too, but not essential. Range is essential.

Dont be at yourself

The split rear window in the Ioniq has never been an issue for me. Comes with reversing camera and sensors as standard.

Sounds like it will suit your needs quite well overall, if you’re willing to factor in a fast-charge for your Belfast/Donegal trips.

Dont be at yourself

kevin16w wrote: »

Would the leaf be more spacious than Kona?

Sat in an ICE Kona and it felt very cramped. I’m a short-arse as well, but in my mind was expecting it to be a bit more roomy.

kevin16w

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Sat in an ICE Kona and it felt very cramped. I’m a short-arse as well, but in my mind was expecting it to be a bit more roomy.

Ok, i have yet to sit in one. I have sat in ICE Niro and it felt decent but then again it is bigger than Kona. I have heart set on Niro and would love a 191 delivery but feel there is very little hope for that. I will try and arrange sit into a Kona.

DrPhilG

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

The split rear window in the Ioniq has never been an issue for me.

I could learn to live with it but my wife says no and it will be our only car, so it's a no.

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

if you’re willing to factor in a fast-charge for your Belfast/Donegal trips.

Belfast to Donegal would be the least of my issues. Donegal to Dublin would still need a fast charge. Donegal to Cork even in the Ioniq would need 2 or 3.

I refuse to be that reliant on the public network for me next car. Its getting very congested already and will only get worse in my opinion. Which means either get the REx or Niro/Kona which seem set to be too expensive.

slave1

Would you not consider keeping the L24 and then a low tax, small bangernomics with a fresh NCT and maybe get girlfriend to insure it with you as co-driver.
Just use it on the long runs and keep it to tide you over until you can get a second hand Niro EV.
I doubt I'll move our second car (L30) until a second hand Niro EV

DrPhilG

slave1 wrote: »

Would you not consider keeping the L24 and then a low tax, small bangernomics with a fresh NCT and maybe get girlfriend to insure it with you as co-driver.
Just use it on the long runs and keep it to tide you over until you can get a second hand Niro EV.
I doubt I'll move our second car (L30) until a second hand Niro EV

The issue with that is that even day to day driving is becoming difficult so I'd be as well switching to full ICE rather than as a second car.

Plus I hate driving ICE now, and because I have a claim 4 years ago the tax and insurance on a second car would be well over a grand a year plus fuel costs.

KCross

Phil

Kona:
Why is the Kona too small for you? You didnt mention space. What are your requirement for space?

Sure, it is v.small in the back. You wouldnt be doing a long trip with teenagers/adults in the back but the front looks fine.

So, unless you regularly carry adults in the back is the Kona really too small for you?


Leaf/Ioniq
The Leaf is definitely out for you. You would be depressed from day 1!
The Ioniq wont really help you over the Leaf on those long journeys. You need a 60kWh for those and that is really the crux of your issue here. You need a 60kWh+ car and that seriously limits your options.

i3 Rex
hmm... Are your i3 figures for the smaller or larger capacity i3? Wouldnt you need the larger one? Can the larger one be got for £20k already?


VW
Cant see how the eGolf will help you at all. You would still have the same issues around having to use the public infrastructure. And yea, its too expensive for what you are getting.


There is a feeling amongst some folks on here that there will be "cheap" EV's that can do long range by 2020. I'm not convinved of that myself but maybe waiting is the best option.

You are obviously managing with the car you have albeit having to hire one for your rare Cork trip and bus to Dublin. Day to Day it works and is saving you money so just wait another 18mths or so and reassess then. The depreciation is going to be minimal and you can bump that €8k savings up in the meantime. I think that's what I would do in your position as I think you will only be truly happy with a 60kWh+ car, everything else will be a compromise.

zilog_jones

DrPhilG wrote: »

That I'm not sure, but I'll have to look into it. A friend has one so I'll ask.

Some info:

http://www.mybmwi3.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4895

https://insideevs.com/bmw-i3-rex-guide-to-reduced-power-operation-range-expectations/

https://www.bmwblog.com/2014/10/24/i3-rex-one-owners-thoughts-bevx-restrictions/

It sounds like it will struggle on motorways. I could imagine trying to climb out of something like the Blackwater valley on the M8 could be "fun". It's still going to be a compromise for long trips, it seems - either some public charging or careful planning of the SOC will be required to get there in reasonable time.

DrPhilG

KCross wrote: »

Phil

Kona:
Why is the Kona too small for you? You didnt mention space. What are your requirement for space?

Sure, it is v.small in the back. You wouldnt be doing a long trip with teenagers/adults in the back but the front looks fine.

So, unless you regularly carry adults in the back is the Kona really too small for you?

I do regularly need to give an elderly aunt a lift and occasionally other lifts too. My aunt simply wouldn't fit in the back of a Kona and my wife would be cramped.

If it was €20k I'd maybe live with the inconvenience for the sale of the range. But for €38k+, no way.

KCross wrote: »

i3 Rex
hmm... Are your i3 figures for the smaller or larger capacity i3? Wouldnt you need the larger one? Can the larger one be got for £20k already?

Well that, I'm not sure. What are the models/sizes? As far as I recall the i3 is listed in aH sizes instead of kWh which is a pain.

The smaller one was the 60ah I believe which is 21kwh. The bigger is 94ah or 33kwh.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201810111397326?advertising-location=at_cars&keywords=94&postcode=bt488nr&model=I3&seller-type=trade&page=1&make=BMW&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=Used

This one says 94ah, and claims over 100 miles EV range which sounds right. But in the tech specs it says 22kw battery. So that would need to be clarified.


As for holding off in the L24, I just don't think I can. I'd rather do ICE than continue. The Letterkenny FCP is dead at the minute which means I can't even go visit my dad after work without charging at home for 60-90 minutes first. And I'm finding myself increasingly driving at the dreaded Leafspeed due to fear of running out.

I also doubt that cheapo EVs will be on the market in the next few years which is why I'm basing my plans on getting a second hand e-Niro for about €33k which would be a used UK model imported.

If the cheap EVs have landed, my i3 would be worth less than I hope but it's replacement would also be cheaper.

DrPhilG

zilog_jones wrote: »

Some info:

http://www.mybmwi3.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4895

https://insideevs.com/bmw-i3-rex-guide-to-reduced-power-operation-range-expectations/

https://www.bmwblog.com/2014/10/24/i3-rex-one-owners-thoughts-bevx-restrictions/

It sounds like it will struggle on motorways. I could imagine trying to climb out of something like the Blackwater valley on the M8 could be "fun". It's still going to be a compromise for long trips, it seems - either some public charging or careful planning of the SOC will be required to get there in reasonable time.

I've asked the question on UK forums. I did read somewhere (can't find the link now) that the power issue was only in the US because out there the REx doesn't kick in until 6% battery. That leave it too short for the generator to refill the battery quicker than it is running down. Apparently in the rest of the world the REx kicks in sooner and allows more overlap and hence no power shortage.

I'll get more info though.

DrPhilG

KCross wrote: »

You are obviously managing with the car you have albeit having to hire one for your rare Cork trip and bus to Dublin.

The trip home from Dublin in the bus following a flight was hell. But driving home in my Leaf with 4 stops with each one a potential queue would be worse.

DrPhilG

zilog_jones wrote: »

Some info:

Found the answer.

If the car only hits the REx at 6%, there is a small chance of the power limitation issue. However outside of the US, you can manually swith over earlier. In the US they don't have the option.

So over here, on a long range trip I would just switch to the REx earlier and not worry about the problem.

zilog_jones

DrPhilG wrote: »

I've asked the question on UK forums. I did read somewhere (can't find the link now) that the power issue was only in the US because out there the REx doesn't kick in until 6% battery. That leave it too short for the generator to refill the battery quicker than it is running down. Apparently in the rest of the world the REx kicks in sooner and allows more overlap and hence no power shortage.

I'll get more info though.

Yeah, it seems to be more restrictive in the US, and the tank is a bit smaller too.

But I could imagine on a long trip like Donegal-Cork you still could potentially run into low SOC problems, without careful planning and either having to fill that 9 litre tank multiple times or doing some fast charging along the way (or both).

It's this kind of stuff that made we stick with a PHEV, though at the time I was buying (2016) the only EV in my budget was a 24 kWh Leaf. I could do Donegal-Cork and back on one tank (45L), while still using little to no petrol for local driving (though my daily commute is short).

KCross

DrPhilG wrote: »

As for holding off in the L24, I just don't think I can. I'd rather do ICE than continue. The Letterkenny FCP is dead at the minute which means I can't even go visit my dad after work without charging at home for 60-90 minutes first. And I'm finding myself increasingly driving at the dreaded Leafspeed due to fear of running out.

It sounds like for now you need to solve this issue first and foremost. Not being able to visit elderly relatives on a weekly basis, without compromising, is a step too far. Waiting, clearly isnt an option then.

DrPhilG wrote: »

I also doubt that cheapo EVs will be on the market in the next few years which is why I'm basing my plans on getting a second hand e-Niro for about €33k which would be a used UK model imported.

If the cheap EVs have landed, my i3 would be worth less than I hope but it's replacement would also be cheaper.

Its crystal ball stuff. What price will the eNiro be. Will there be a 9+ month waiting list after the first round of deliveries? Will cheaper EV's come on stream to draw eNiro prices down? Will Brexit affect your option to import in 2yrs time? Very difficult to answer any of those with any authority.

imo, any budgeting you do that is based on EV's coming down in price will more than likely leave you disappointed. Thats just me, I know others feel otherwise.

DrPhilG wrote: »

The trip home from Dublin in the bus following a flight was hell. But driving home in my Leaf with 4 stops with each one a potential queue would be worse.

Does that mean that driving from Donegal to Dublin airport without stopping is a requirement or are you still willing to bus that journey?


If you cant wait, the i3 Rex(with larger battery) does seem like the only option you have or else dig deep and pay the piper for the eNiro.

I havent been in the back of the i3. Is it roomy? Will your elderly aunt be able to get in/out of it easily with the "doors"!

The NW is also a CCS black hole but I guess the ICE gets you out of that issue.


If you keep the eNiro for 10yrs it might be worth just going for it now. Waiting for a "cheap" one could be a long wait based on how the Ioniq pricing has gone. ~€40k is a big ask alright though.

It is a difficult bind you find yourself in.
Get an i3 Rex extended test drive anyway for a start.

Every current EV have their compromises and I guess you can't consider a L40 as that ship sailed but sometimes you just need to accept compromises and move on. I understand that you would the laughing stock at both here and speakev if you actually bought a L40 after all the talk. At the same time it would solve 99 percent of the woes you currenlty have with the L24. Same for IONIQ though, rear window and all.

Personally we have covered 4k since the return from Finland in August and haven't used the public system once over those 4k. The car just hit 20k today actually.

mr chips

Would you consider the Chevy Volt that was posted up here the other day in the bargains thread at £8495? Reportedly has 50-60km range on battery only, but provides the flexibility of taking on longer journeys using the petrol engine. Budget a fraction of the cost of any new or nearly new EV, and something you could expect to run for the next 2-3 years while you wait to see how prices go with longer-range EVs that are coming to market. With your location, any unforeseen issues requiring a visit to a dealer should be less problematic.

If I had the spare cash for it, I'd be looking up flybe's Belfast to East Midlands fares right now ...

DrPhilG

KCross wrote: »

Imo, any budgeting you do that is based on EV's coming down in price will more than likely leave you disappointed. Thats just me, I know others feel otherwise.

Agreed, so my budgeting is based on current prices. If the Niro is miraculously cheaper then my i3 will have fallen accordingly.

KCross wrote: »

Does that mean that driving from Donegal to Dublin airport without stopping is a requirement or are you still willing to bus that journey

I'm not willing to bus it. Took the bus last month because I was dreading the trip in the Leaf, it was horrible. But doing it in the Leaf would at best be a nuisance and at worst a disaster.

KCross wrote: »

If you cant wait, the i3 Rex(with larger battery) does seem like the only option you have or else dig deep and pay the piper for the eNiro.

I'll be waiting for confirmation of the e-Niro price before I do anything.

KCross wrote: »

I havent been in the back of the i3. Is it roomy? Will your elderly aunt be able to get in/out of it easily with the "doors"!

The back seemed OK when I was last in one, not huge but OK. My aunt will be in the front and my wife in the back.

KCross wrote: »

The NW is also a CCS black hole but I guess the ICE gets you out of that issue.

I'm based closer to Derry and the fast charger there has CCS. Letterkenny one doesn't but its dead at the minute anyway!

KCross wrote: »

If you keep the eNiro for 10yrs it might be worth just going for it now. Waiting for a "cheap" one could be a long wait based on how the Ioniq pricing has gone. ~€40k is a big ask alright though.

I won't be keeping it 10 years. I'd be keeping it til the end of its warranty so max 6 years with my mileage. Even if it didn't depreciate much, getting one in the UK and not worrying about VAT and VRT would make it cheaper.

KCross wrote: »

It is a difficult bind you find yourself in.
Get an i3 Rex extended test drive anyway for a start.

Working on the i3 test at the minute. Not sure if BMW Coleraine have one though. A friend has one but I'd like to get one for a longer test drive.

DrPhilG

samih wrote: »

Every current EV have their compromises and I guess you can't consider a L40 as that ship sailed but sometimes you just need to accept compromises and move on. I understand that you would the laughing stock at both here and speakev if you actually bought a L40 after all the talk. At the same time it would solve 99 percent of the woes you currenlty have with the L24. Same for IONIQ though, rear window and all.

Personally we have covered 4k since the return from Finland in August and haven't used the public system once over those 4k. The car just hit 20k today actually.

I'm not remotely concerned about being a laughing stock, but the fact is that a L40 would cost me more than the i3 but the i3 doesn't have the issues for me that the L40 does.

As I think I said in the OP, I'd buy an L40 if it was cheap. The fact that it isn't puts it into the same bracket as the Kona, as in I'm not willing to spend that much for a flawed (for me) car.

DrPhilG

mr chips wrote: »

Would you consider the Chevy Volt that was posted up here the other day in the bargains thread at £8495?

Out of warranty EVs make me twitch. Funnily enough the Volt (or Ampera as it used to be known) was the first EV I considered before eventually buying my L24.

Plus that huge knee breaking centre console is my other bug bear about the Kona.

DrPhilG, just trying to irritate you a bit ;-) If I was getting a car now I would probably try get a 33 kWh i3 with a nice spec if I had a use of another car with more room when needed. The i3 would definitely have a sizing problem compared to others. The front is very spacous but rear and the boot less so. CCS will be bonus going forward.

DrPhilG

samih wrote: »

DrPhilG, just trying to irritate you a bit ;-) If I was getting a car now I would probably try get a 33 kWh i3 with a nice spec if I had a use of another car with more room when needed. The i3 would definitely have a sizing problem compared to others. The front is very spacous but rear and the boot less so. CCS will be bonus going forward.

Yeah I need to track down a car for test drive to see what the size is like. It doesn't look quite as bad as the Kona but I need a proper look to be sure.

kuro68k

The Kona is small in the back seats but not too bad up front and the boot is okay. It's smaller than the Leaf but but comfortable.

There is a guy in the Netherlands who is doing range extender batteries for the Leaf 24... You lose some boot space though.

The i3 REX has some issues. The fossil engine is unreliable, especially when it barely gets used for very long periods of time. I'd steer clear.

80sDiesel

kuro68k wrote: »

The Kona is small in the back seats but not too bad up front and the boot is okay. It's smaller than the Leaf but but comfortable.

There is a guy in the Netherlands who is doing range extender batteries for the Leaf 24... You lose some boot space though.

The i3 REX has some issues. The fossil engine is unreliable, especially when it barely gets used for very long periods of time. I'd steer clear.

The Rex only had issues for the earlier models so i would avoid them. /Second gen have had no issues. 
But if the kona is small in the bank, cant really think the i3 would be any bigger.

DrPhilG

The i3 might not be much bigger than the Kona, and it is a 4 seater too as far as I remember, but it would be a short term deal and €15k cheaper than the Kona.

Shefwedfan

DrPhilG wrote: »

Found the answer.

If the car only hits the REx at 6%, there is a small chance of the power limitation issue. However outside of the US, you can manually swith over earlier. In the US they don't have the option.

So over here, on a long range trip I would just switch to the REx earlier and not worry about the problem.

Watch the Grand Tour....based on the review of the UK version he had to drive without aircon at XX MPH until he could charge back up the battery. Now again they will alway exaggerate a failing in the car but it seemed to be an issue......it didn't mention the option of switching over earlier and it was May who had just bought the car....again he might not do for good TV

DrPhilG

Yeah after the Top Gear hatchet job on the Leaf I wouldn't trust them too far...

mordeith

Just to chime in on the i3. I have a 161 60ah.
You can get the Rex to kick in anywhere lower than 75% battery. I've driven it at 120kph on Rex with battery at 6% and noticed no real power difference (apart from slightly slower response).
The Rex runs for short periods automatically if it hasn't been used in a while.
Rear legroom is the same as our previous Leaf. It's great fun to drive although rear window is a bit small.

DrPhilG

Thanks Mordeith. Interesting to hear that the rear leg room matched the Leaf. It looks smaller, although maybe the pictures I've seen had the front seats fully back.

Silent Running

I test drove a new I3 REX recently. The back was, let's say "snug". The thing that would piss me off no end is a shortage of room to put your redundant left foot. After a while I felt the need to move it a bit, but there was nowhere for it to go.

I can see how the Ioniq back window would put some off, but it doesn't bother me, even a little. That said, For years I drove vehicles with no back window, so I'm very used to using the mirrors exclusively.

mordeith

DrPhilG wrote: »

Thanks Mordeith. Interesting to hear that the rear leg room matched the Leaf. It looks smaller, although maybe the pictures I've seen had the front seats fully back.

I thought it was smaller too but the tinted windows in the rear give it that air. I tested it before we bought as we have two booster seats. I sat in the back and had the same leg room behind the driver seat with the seat positioned for me driving.
Not sure what the poster above is saying. There's a handy sloped area to rest your left foot.

Shefwedfan

Ok so eGolf, the Gen 1 will just be a bit better than your Leaf so it is a Gen 2, price in UK is circa 25k UKP upwards. Optional heat pump if one can be found with it would be ideal. The problem is most dealers won't have an idea what you are talking about :-(

In Ireland for demo models you are looking at 32k. Not bad money, I would guess they bought in using the 4k eco grant before that disappeared so you would be on 181 plates. Expect to pay 32k, maybe 500 quid off. Dealers are not offering much.

Distance, summer you have between 220-240km. With heavy foot down to 200km. Winter I would say knock around 20k off that without heat pump.

Not the worst tool to use: https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/new/golf-vii-pa/explore/e-golf-range

The 250km trip you should be able to do in Eco mode(max speed of 120km/h and acceleration is decreased). You can also hit Eco+ mode is going to miss location and its like turning on turtle on Leaf, I would guess.

Really if Ionity was rolled out I would recommend, the value seems to be holding. The battery is having very little degradation if you compare to Leaf. Plus the car is lovely place to be and drive. Also single peddle driving on Leaf, same on eGolf with B mode from what I can gather. Have not tested the Leaf 2 yet. You also have 1-3 mode on regen to check which suits your driving style.....I think you mentioned before about parking and Misses, so get the self parking. It is very good but personally I don't use it.

Anything else ask.....Ionity will be the game changer

Silent Running

mordeith wrote: »

I thought it was smaller too but the tinted windows in the rear give it that air. I tested it before we bought as we have two booster seats. I sat in the back and had the same leg room behind the driver seat with the seat positioned for me driving.
Not sure what the poster above is saying. There's a handy sloped area to rest your left foot.

There is a sloped bit to rest your foot on, but no more than that. I just felt that my foot had no wiggle room so to speak.

The leg room in the back is OK, I didn't spend much time there but I felt a bit claustrophobic. Maybe the lack of opening windows didn't help. I'm a big fella too, so most back seat areas feel tight.

Shefwedfan

If I do a quick review of option


1 - 2018 Leaf
Not much cheaper than a eGolf, the value will plummet once they bring out new version

2 - Ioniq
Great car but like you I just don't like it. Also not a great fan of hyundai at the moment

3 - i3 REX
Decent option. I had 2 issues with it. 1, I don;t like BMW's and two it was too small for me....it seems overpriced to me as well. With the option of upgrading the BEV model to newer battery I would be more inclined to look at that....but still, 4 seater and no back doors and windows....pram wheels as well.....:-)

4 - e-Golf
Issue is you will still need to use charging network....dont worry about money

5 - ICE
Unthinkable

mordeith

Silent Running wrote: »

There is a sloped bit to rest your foot on, but no more than that. I just felt that my foot had no wiggle room so to speak.

The leg room in the back is OK, I didn't spend much time there but I felt a bit claustrophobic. Maybe the lack of opening windows didn't help. I'm a big fella too, so most back seat areas feel tight.

Ah yeah, fair enough. Definitely the small windows in the back could give a constrained feeling. We've only ever had the kids in there so they don't complain.

NIMAN

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If I do a quick review of option


1 - 2018 Leaf
Not much cheaper than a eGolf, the value will plummet once they bring out new version

2 - Ioniq
Great car but like you I just don't like it. Also not a great fan of hyundai at the moment

3 - i3 REX
Decent option. I had 2 issues with it. 1, I don;t like BMW's and two it was too small for me....it seems overpriced to me as well. With the option of upgrading the BEV model to newer battery I would be more inclined to look at that....but still, 4 seater and no back doors and windows....pram wheels as well.....:-)

4 - e-Golf
Issue is you will still need to use charging network....dont worry about money

A decent summary of why EVs still aren't selling in any great numbers?

Shefwedfan

NIMAN wrote: »

A decent summary of why EVs still aren't selling in any great numbers?

That for Phil....if I review the cars for myself :P


1 - 2018 Leaf
Much better than the Gen 1 but I just can't see myself buying it....maybe it was really cheap and I got the black with tinted windows etc

2 - Ioniq
Good car, I dont like the interior or exterior

3 - i3 REX
I don't like BMW and it is only a 4 seater......

4 - e-Golf

unkel

I can't really see the base Niro being €40k on the road. Surely it will be close enough but not that close. I'd guess more like €38k. I can also not see it being a "Paddy spec".

But if it is €40k, then it is not realistic to expect to pick one up a year later for €33k. In a diesel car, for sure. But not in an EV. Supply is still going to be very restricted a year from now, and demand is only going to grow.

DrPhilG wrote: »

I could learn to live with it but my wife says no and it will be our only car, so it's a no.

We were very much the same, Phil after test driving Ioniq for 24h. I was pretty shocked about the lack of rear visibility in a modern hatchback. But it was not a no for me, as I've owned cars with far less visibility. Think damp convertibles in winter with a plastic rear window

Herself strongly disliked it. Almost dismissed the car because of it

Funny thing is that when we had the car just a few days, neither of us were bothered about the rear window any more. You get used to it really quickly. A lot of other owners have reported same.

As for value, the occasional one comes up private sale in the UK for £20k. But you won't make it to Dublin or to Cork in one. No problem once Ionity is here and their chargers are in suitable locations, but Ionity ain't here yet.

If I were you, and you just can't go the high 30s for a Niro (and Kona is too small - why is it too small BTW? If you don't have 3 kids, it's fine, no?) then I probably just wouldn't do anything for the moment. Keep your Leaf and re-think the issue early next year.

BigAl81

Early next year is only 10 weeks away!! The only difference then would be eNiro pricing, but I think we have an idea of that already. Do you think going into 191 will give much better value on second hand market as there'll be another years depreciation by then?

DRPhil, I'm going through the same thought process currently.

I was all on for the eNiro, but looking like another 6 months for that so looking around, I'm now looking at the Model S second hand. They're starting to come in at 40k now (ish) and even second hand I think you get way more bang for your buck than a new Kia?

Would you consider a Tesla? I've a test drive booked for this Saturday myself

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

I can't really see the base Niro being €40k on the road. Surely it will be close enough but not that close. I'd guess more like €38k. I can also not see it being a "Paddy spec".

I expect paddy spec to be around €40k on the road. I expect a top spec UK Niro to be around £34k which is the top Kona plus 5% as in other markets. That UK version would be close to €40k by the time I add VAT and VRT.

A year after launch, the UK version might only drop to £31k but that would then attract no extra VAT and little or no VRT giving me an on the road price of about €34.5. OK so my €33k was optimistic but its still a saving compared to buying new, and it gives me a year (and I'm actually thinking wait 18-24 months) to see what's out like the L60, the VW Unicorn etc.