hospital parking fees

beauf

weldoninhio wrote: »

Want a hand with those goalposts??

45 minutes on public transport to visit someone is hardly the end of the world now is it??

Each way minimum.

I must have visited various hospitals about 50 times this year with family.

Guess some people have a lot of time on their hands that 2hrs wasted is nothing to them.

jmayo

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I know that you're desperate to continue to build our car centric society that has us zooming up the obesity and carbon emission league tables, but what does a car give you that dedicated point to point transport service does not?

Why not re read Moonmintroll99's posts again.
Then slap yourself on the head for pontificating when you have no idea of the reasons why someone has no choice but to drive to a hospital.

Jaeeze if there was an ar**hole of the day post you would win it by miles.

Oh and if you are unlucky enough to be struck down with cancer, or have a loved one struck down with it, I wonder how long will you stick by your principles. :rolleyes:

lollpop wrote: »

Had to park in Beaumont recently. 4.80 for an hour and a half. 15 minute drive or 45 mins by public transport, no contest really.

Having also had to bring a sick child to temple St recently, public transport just isn't an option for kids in that situation. I had to go from my house to out of hours GP then to temple St. By the time I was on the way to the hospital, the child had started vomiting from the medication she got at the GPs and was seriously ill by the time I got to the hospital. I can't even imagine how that would have gone had we had to rely on (Sunday) public transport.

The holier than thou anti car fooking brigade probably haven't encountered that aspect of life yet.
But rest assured when they will, those principles will probably suddenly disappear.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I find it a little grim that children with cancer and other horrific illnesses are being used as a blanket excuse for free parking/no public transport. If free parking was introduced I’m willing to bet it would be much harder for people who need a car at the hospital to find suitable parking. Absolutely agree with provisions for long term sick people to help with parking, but it’s definately not an argument for every single car that drives into a hospital carpark

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Quinton Modern Stepfather wrote: »

I find it a little grim that children with cancer and other horrific illnesses are being used as a blanket excuse for free parking/no public transport. If free parking was introduced I’m willing to bet it would be much harder for people who need a car at the hospital to find suitable parking. Absolutely agree with provisions for long term sick people to help with parking, but it’s definately not an argument for every single car that drives into a hospital carpark

Agreed. I'd just settle for a reasonable fee, instead of the exorbitant rates some hospital car parks are charging.

iamwhoiam

Quinton Modern Stepfather wrote: »

I find it a little grim that children with cancer and other horrific illnesses are being used as a blanket excuse for free parking/no public transport. If free parking was introduced I’m willing to bet it would be much harder for people who need a car at the hospital to find suitable parking. Absolutely agree with provisions for long term sick people to help with parking, but it’s definately not an argument for every single car that drives into a hospital carpark

In fairness I dont think they were being used as a blanket excuse for every tom dick and harry to have free parking .But the point is that some patients and thier visitors / carers should have a capped or free pass /

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

iamwhoiam wrote: »

In fairness I dont think they were being used as a blanket excuse for every tom dick and harry to have free parking .But the point is that some patients and thier visitors / carers should have a capped or free pass /

Couldn’t agree more, and I’d question if someone suggesting differently had a beating heart.

Moomintroll99

Just to lay out the numbers so people can understand:

I was doing my tax today actually & going through medical expenses. We spent a total of €480 on parking at Crumlin last year (not actually claimable on tax but I had all the receipts together). That's in addition to all the various accommodation costs (one parent, usually mother, can stay on the ward with the child but dad has to buy grim hospital accomm for €20 a night), the cost of feeding yourselves while you're there, the costs around babysitting or transport to relatives for care for other children, the lost income from lost work, stuff like nappies for a newly incontinent child, blah blah blah blah.

Some of that is claimable against tax, but that's not much help when your income drops due to working less while caring for your child. Our combined income dropped from around 50k to less than half of that for the year - we're both self employed & had to turn down a lot of work. All in all, we probably ended the year maybe €30k down. We got a kind grant of €1000 from the Cancer Society to help with costs, but I hear those have been stopped now. There is Ronald McDonald House which provides family accommodation, but we could never get in, it was always heavily oversubscribed.

We do have that priceless thing, a kid who survived, which is obviously better than all the money on earth. For outpatients appointments, with our child now happily in remission who just comes up for scans and things, we're perfectly happy to get the train to Dublin & a taxi to Crumlin. It's still a cost burden, maybe €80 or €100, and a day off work/school, but nothing like what we were paying for those week long stints.

I would in no way say we were the worst off on the ward either, some of the stories would break your heart. Financial pressure is a huge part of having a sick child. Some of the phone conversations I would hear in the corridor, people with terminally or seriously ill kids, pleading with employers/banks/social welfare etc, would break your heart. Probably something repeated in the adult hospitals too with one partner trying to care for another etc.

It would just be nice if these specific people, at the worst time in their lives, were not seen as parking cash cows.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Glad to hear the child is in remission

AndrewJRenko

Moomintroll99 wrote: »

I know that you're desperate to continue to build our car centric society that has us zooming up the obesity and carbon emission league tables, but what does a car give you that dedicated point to point transport service does not?

Cancer is a fantastic cure for obesity in children, trust me.

I think you are conflating the long term health issue of 'how all the people get to work & school every day' with the short term health issue of 'how the unfortunate few very sick people get to life saving care'. I totally agree that there should be a less car centric society, with accessible bike paths, pedestrian friendly walkways, and penalties for taking unnecessary car journeys. That would be better for everyone's health. But some of us are still going to be those unfortunate few hearing bad news about random illnesses.

As stated before, a car gives sick children and adults the ability to:

- avoid life threatening infections from other users while getting to and from treatment
- access care at inconvenient times
- preserve dignity for the sick - avoid some of the 'Mammy, why does that boy have no hair?' type comments people make.
- let people from rural and remote areas access highly centralised services
- carry all the stuff - illness means a lot of bags of clothes/medications/equipment etc
- protect other public transport users from things like getting vomited on etc. Some of the sights associated with my son's treatment have been very, very confronting even for me as his parent. I just do not think commuters on a Luas really need to see some skeletal child having a fit or being completely incontinent or screaming in pain etc before getting in to their work.

For example, imagine your (definitely not obese) child with cancer wakes up having a seizure at home at 3am, then screaming that their head hurts. You freak out and call the hospital, they say to come in ASAP to rule out meningitis caused as a result of low immune system from chemo.

Are you going to wait for the bus? Really?

If you had spent one tenth of the time reading my post that you actually spent thinking up problems, you might have noticed that I didn't actually refer to public transport.

But it is interesting to note the fanatical grip used to cling on to arrangements for storage of private property in public spaces. It's not just "won't someone please think of the children". It is now "won't someone please think of the sick, cancerous children".

A bit extreme, no?

iamwhoiam

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

If you had spent one tenth of the time reading my post that you actually spent thinking up problems, you might have noticed that I didn't actually refer to public transport.

But it is interesting to note the fanatical grip used to cling on to arrangements for storage of private property in public spaces. It's not just "won't someone please think of the children". It is now "won't someone please think of the sick, cancerous children".

A bit extreme, no?

You sound like an real charmer . Honestly do you even hear what you write ? I bet you would change your boorish " I know better " attitude if you walked in the shoes of one parent with a child on the oncology ward .

AndrewJRenko

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Moomintroll99 wrote: »

Cancer is a fantastic cure for obesity in children, trust me.

I think you are conflating the long term health issue of 'how all the people get to work & school every day' with the short term health issue of 'how the unfortunate few very sick people get to life saving care'. I totally agree that there should be a less car centric society, with accessible bike paths, pedestrian friendly walkways, and penalties for taking unnecessary car journeys. That would be better for everyone's health. But some of us are still going to be those unfortunate few hearing bad news about random illnesses.

As stated before, a car gives sick children and adults the ability to:

- avoid life threatening infections from other users while getting to and from treatment
- access care at inconvenient times
- preserve dignity for the sick - avoid some of the 'Mammy, why does that boy have no hair?' type comments people make.
- let people from rural and remote areas access highly centralised services
- carry all the stuff - illness means a lot of bags of clothes/medications/equipment etc
- protect other public transport users from things like getting vomited on etc. Some of the sights associated with my son's treatment have been very, very confronting even for me as his parent. I just do not think commuters on a Luas really need to see some skeletal child having a fit or being completely incontinent or screaming in pain etc before getting in to their work.

For example, imagine your (definitely not obese) child with cancer wakes up having a seizure at home at 3am, then screaming that their head hurts. You freak out and call the hospital, they say to come in ASAP to rule out meningitis caused as a result of low immune system from chemo.

Are you going to wait for the bus? Really?

Shame this can only be thanked once - the vehemently anti car militia need to be shamed into seeing reason it seems.

Bwaahaahaa.

Apology accepted in anticipation.

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

and medical card holders should park free. low income means medical card.
some of the costs listed here would preclude many from attending for their needs.

No way should medical card holders get free parking and not those who don’t, not only are non-medical card holders funding the medical card holders with their taxes but now you want them to pay for their parking while medical card holders don’t. It should be the other way around if anything, the people funding the healthcare system with their taxes should be the ones getting it free.

I don’t actually think anyone should have to pay, parking should be free for all people at the hospital. Built multistory car parks and new hospitals should not be built anywhere near city centers but on green field sites with loads of space for parking and much easier access away from city traffic etc.

Also telling people to get public transport is idiotic, firstly public transport is unsuitable for most people who are attending or visiting a hospital for a lot of reasons, it’s also unsuitable for many people working in hospitals (for example walking home at night etc for nurses and doctors, proximity to work, odd hours etc etc) but the fact is the Dublin centric heads on some people here forget that most people don’t have the option. For example a&e in Galway city serves basically the entire county, parts of Roscommon, parts of mayo even parts of Clare. How on earth are you expecting people to get to a hospital without untold hardship never mind in an emergency. It would be completely impossible for most people living in these areas to get to the hospital without driving.

TheChizler

Ford White Sisterhood wrote: »

new hospitals should not be built anywhere near city centers but on green field sites with loads of space for parking and much easier access away from city traffic etc.

Also telling people to get public transport is idiotic

It certainly would be if you built the hospital outside the city making public transport even less of an option.

PlaneSpeeking

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

If you had spent one tenth of the time reading my post that you actually spent thinking up problems, you might have noticed that I didn't actually refer to public transport.

But it is interesting to note the fanatical grip used to cling on to arrangements for storage of private property in public spaces. It's not just "won't someone please think of the children". It is now "won't someone please think of the sick, cancerous children".

A bit extreme, no?

Jesus Christ - seriously ???? You're haranguing the parent of a child with CANCER to make your billionth anti car post ????

I doubt it will do any good, certainly not to your attitude but my conscience tells me your post needs to be reported for that.

Graces7

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

If you had spent one tenth of the time reading my post that you actually spent thinking up problems, you might have noticed that I didn't actually refer to public transport.

But it is interesting to note the fanatical grip used to cling on to arrangements for storage of private property in public spaces. It's not just "won't someone please think of the children". It is now "won't someone please think of the sick, cancerous children".

A bit extreme, no?

Not at all, since you ask not at all

Graces7

Ford White Sisterhood wrote: »

No way should medical card holders get free parking and not those who don’t, not only are non-medical card holders funding the medical card holders with their taxes but now you want them to pay for their parking while medical card holders don’t. It should be the other way around if anything, the people funding the healthcare system with their taxes should be the ones getting it free.

By what criteria?

Graces7

Ford White Sisterhood wrote: »

Also telling people to get public transport is idiotic, firstly public transport is unsuitable for most people who are attending or visiting a hospital for a lot of reasons, it’s also unsuitable for many people working in hospitals (for example walking home at night etc for nurses and doctors, proximity to work, odd hours etc etc) but the fact is the Dublin centric heads on some people here forget that most people don’t have the option. For example a&e in Galway city serves basically the entire county, parts of Roscommon, parts of mayo even parts of Clare. How on earth are you expecting people to get to a hospital without untold hardship never mind in an emergency. It would be completely impossible for most people living in these areas to get to the hospital without driving.

It is. And given the cost of petrol and parking... gets totally impossible. So we miss treatment

angel eyes 2012

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

But it is interesting to note the fanatical grip used to cling on to arrangements for storage of private property in public spaces. It's not just "won't someone please think of the children". It is now "won't someone please think of the sick, cancerous children".

A bit extreme, no?

You state that there is a "fanatical" grip used to cling on to arrangements for storage of private property in public spaces. What about the "fanatical" grip that private parking companies have with the location of their privately owned car parks on publicly owned land.

For the record, I appreciate some payment has to be made at hospitals car parks, however it has to be reasonable and any profits should go directly to the purchase of equipment such as scanning machines or additional staff to operate them, I believe most reasonable people would support this, with a caveat that any such arrangement was transparent.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/car-parking-charges-are-hospitals-making-a-killing-1.3080049

Not every patient can avail of public transport even in the cities, often regular attendees at hospitals with chronic conditions have supressed immune systems and most are generally weak. You could be waiting in a public outpatient's clinic for 5 or 6 hours, invariably have a new prescription that has to be filled that evening and the last thing you want to do is get on a bus.

jmayo

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

If you had spent one tenth of the time reading my post that you actually spent thinking up problems, you might have noticed that I didn't actually refer to public transport.

But it is interesting to note the fanatical grip used to cling on to arrangements for storage of private property in public spaces. It's not just "won't someone please think of the children". It is now "won't someone please think of the sick, cancerous children".

A bit extreme, no?

One could give you the benefit of the doubt that you hadn't read the last post from Moomintroll99 before you posted your contribution, and thus aren't a complete <snip>.

But Moomintroll99's post detailing the financial and emotional troubles encountered by a parent of a child with cancer was posted at 12.26 and your contemptuous retort was posted at 12.48, a full 22 minutes.

Here is the post for you.
And you better fooking hope you never half to walk a mile, nevermind drive a mile, in the shoes of the parents of children with cancer.

Moomintroll99 wrote: »

Just to lay out the numbers so people can understand:

I was doing my tax today actually & going through medical expenses. We spent a total of €480 on parking at Crumlin last year (not actually claimable on tax but I had all the receipts together). That's in addition to all the various accommodation costs (one parent, usually mother, can stay on the ward with the child but dad has to buy grim hospital accomm for €20 a night), the cost of feeding yourselves while you're there, the costs around babysitting or transport to relatives for care for other children, the lost income from lost work, stuff like nappies for a newly incontinent child, blah blah blah blah.

Some of that is claimable against tax, but that's not much help when your income drops due to working less while caring for your child. Our combined income dropped from around 50k to less than half of that for the year - we're both self employed & had to turn down a lot of work. All in all, we probably ended the year maybe €30k down. We got a kind grant of €1000 from the Cancer Society to help with costs, but I hear those have been stopped now. There is Ronald McDonald House which provides family accommodation, but we could never get in, it was always heavily oversubscribed.

We do have that priceless thing, a kid who survived, which is obviously better than all the money on earth. For outpatients appointments, with our child now happily in remission who just comes up for scans and things, we're perfectly happy to get the train to Dublin & a taxi to Crumlin. It's still a cost burden, maybe €80 or €100, and a day off work/school, but nothing like what we were paying for those week long stints.

I would in no way say we were the worst off on the ward either, some of the stories would break your heart. Financial pressure is a huge part of having a sick child. Some of the phone conversations I would hear in the corridor, people with terminally or seriously ill kids, pleading with employers/banks/social welfare etc, would break your heart. Probably something repeated in the adult hospitals too with one partner trying to care for another etc.

It would just be nice if these specific people, at the worst time in their lives, were not seen as parking cash cows.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Hayes Modern Sterilization wrote: »

Agreed. I'd just settle for a reasonable fee, instead of the exorbitant rates some hospital car parks are charging.

Yes, this seems to be the fairest approach. If parking was free at hospitals, you’d have non-hospital users parking there too. A small fee is fair and will put freeloaders off.

Patients who need to visit the hospital very frequently should get free parking.

AndrewJRenko

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Jesus Christ - seriously ???? You're haranguing the parent of a child with CANCER to make your billionth anti car post ????

I doubt it will do any good, certainly not to your attitude but my conscience tells me your post needs to be reported for that.

Haranguing? Really?

Are we allowed discuss facts here at all?

It's kinda funny that you accuse me of being anti car given your own personal agenda against anything to do with cycling.

TheChizler

TheChizler wrote: »

It certainly would be if you built the hospital outside the city making public transport even less of an option.

Most people don’t use public transport for getting to hospital for a start and the many millions saved in land cost and planning issues could buy a fleet of shuttle busses to bring anyone from the city out to the hospital if that’s what they wish. Build the hospital far enough outside the city and traffic won’t be any issue. It also makes it far far easier to get to hospital for all the people who are not from Dublin and are traveling up to the hospital from all around the country.

It was an absolutely idiotic move to build a new hospital in the middle of a city.

What Username Guidelines

Ford White Sisterhood wrote: »

It was an absolutely idiotic move to build a new hospital in the middle of a city.

From a parking perspective, maybe. But for centralising expertise, and therefore providing a greater standard of care, it was an excellent move.

Buford T. Justice XIX

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

If you had spent one tenth of the time reading my post that you actually spent thinking up problems, you might have noticed that I didn't actually refer to public transport.

But it is interesting to note the fanatical grip used to cling on to arrangements for storage of private property in public spaces. It's not just "won't someone please think of the children". It is now "won't someone please think of the sick, cancerous children".

A bit extreme, no?

Mod note: Ah here, don't post in this thread again.


Buford T. Justice.

BohsCeltic

Ford White Sisterhood wrote: »

No way should medical card holders get free parking and not those who don’t, not only are non-medical card holders funding the medical card holders with their taxes but now you want them to pay for their parking while medical card holders don’t. It should be the other way around if anything, the people funding the healthcare system with their taxes should be the ones getting .

That's not entirely true. I am on illness benefit at the moment which is a taxable source of income.

Graces7

BohsCeltic wrote: »

That's not entirely true. I am on illness benefit at the moment which is a taxable source of income.

No way should medical card holders get free parking and not those who don’t, not only are non-medical card holders funding the medical card holders with their taxes but now you want them to pay for their parking while medical card holders don’t. It should be the other way around if anything, the people funding the healthcare system with their taxes should be the ones getting . said nox

The state funds health care, not you, and we all actually pay taxes anyways . OK?OK.

Adding parking costs means poorer folk cannot access hospital care. Been in that situation more than once.

iamwhoiam

Graces7 wrote: »

No way should medical card holders get free parking and not those who don’t, not only are non-medical card holders funding the medical card holders with their taxes but now you want them to pay for their parking while medical card holders don’t. It should be the other way around if anything, the people funding the healthcare system with their taxes should be the ones getting . said nox

The state funds health care, not you, and we all actually pay taxes anyways . OK?OK.

Adding parking costs means poorer folk cannot access hospital care. Been in that situation more than once.

A question Grace . Do you think a person who holds a medical card should be allowed free parking to visit a neighbour in a hospital one random day , while the parents of a long term oncology admission pay hundreds of Euro to park for weeks or months .? It would be a hugely unfair way of dealing with it

GreeBo

If hospital is cheaper than on street parking the car park will be full.
Its more expensive to try to restrict it to people who need to park there since it's a scarce resource. There is nothing complicated about this.

The vast majority of users could indeed use other transport rather than their car, it might be more inconvenient but then that's why you are paying more, for convenience.

I think a rebate system would be the most sensible should you need long term usage of said car park, but also people need to look at alternatives like taxis.

beauf

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

From a parking perspective, maybe. But for centralising expertise, and therefore providing a greater standard of care, it was an excellent move.

I never understood this argument.

All the people I know who attend hospitals regularly. They get referred to completely different locations and hospitals all the time. Driving across Dublin takes the same time as it would to get well into the Midlands.

These services are scattered to the for corners of Dublin in every nook and cranny because there is no space and no parking. Even if you do have two different appointments in the same hospital they are on different days and often one specialist won't have spoken to the other.

Maybe in other countries it's all done in the same hospital. Not the reality here.

Rechuchote

Ford White Sisterhood wrote: »

It was an absolutely idiotic move to build a new hospital in the middle of a city.

Yes and no.

Cities need hospitals - if you're run down by a "sorry mate, didn't see you" driver, if you have a devastating heart attack, if your kid swallows a peanut and it goes down the wrong way, you want to be rushed to a hospital near you.

The problem isn't being in the city, it's that cities don't work because of traffic. Half of all journeys under 2 kilometres in Ireland are driven; two-thirds (69%) of all car journeys are solo - only the driver in the car. So the streets are clogged with cars that shouldn't be there.

Some cities are dealing with this by having a standard bus/tram/metro fare; others have gone further and made all public transport free. https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/oct/15/i-leave-the-car-at-home-how-free-buses-are-revolutionising-one-french-city (In one city, the number using public transport increased 60% the day this was introduced.)