When do you sell?

squinn2912

Just home from a weanling sale and all I think is Im glad I left the lads in The field! I mentioned to the boss one day that there seems to be no right time to sell. If you sell at weanling does it pay enough for the cow? I guess you need to hit the £700 mark? Then at times If you sell a comrade at a more store/forward stage the difference hardly meets dosing, meal and other costs. Any pearls of wisdom?

orchard farm

squinn2912 wrote: »

Just home from a wrangling sake and all I think is I’m glad I left the ladsin The field! I mentioned to the boss one day that there seems to be bifold time to sell. If you sell at weanling does it pay e ouch for the cow? I guess you need to hit the £700 mark? Then at times If you sell a comrade at a more store/forward stage the difference hardly meets dosing, meal and other costs. Any pearls of wisdom?

Sorry man but I don't understand the lingo??

squinn2912

There’s a bit of editing done now wet screen has a mind of its own

orchard farm

squinn2912 wrote: »

There’s a bit of editing done now wet screen has a mind of its own

That's much better.i find the whole world of selling like a lottery ya can be lucky or unlucky depending on the day,hour or what pen weanings are in.personally I know my costs and need 700 to leave a margin to pay tax

TalkingBull

after the SFP money comes out!

TITANIUM.

I suppose it all depends on when your calving really. I always like to wean a bunch of spring born bulls this time of year and keep um going in till the weather turns in spring. So its normally after paddys day and it's a time when money is normally tight by me so it's a help. There's a special bullock sale in my local mart normally around the middle of March that's followed up the following week by a special weanling sale.if the bullock sale is good then I'm in the following week in the hope that the farmers that offloaded there bullocks will be out looking for replacements.

For the autumn Calvers I target the show n sales if the stock are good enough. Anything not up to scratch would just run with the cows that still have calves under them in till they have enough weight up to justify selling.

I try my best to never give a calf away at the mart. If I'm not happy with the price I'll bring um home. The draw is short so it's not to bad.
When cattle are going good everybody wants them so it's handy to have a few around all the time ready to go in case there's a lift.

Who2

I take them out in a few batches. 330kg minimum the last few years and try get them over 1k each. Not this year though. I’ll push some on a bit for another few weeks and hopefully there will be a bit of a lift. It seems it’s a year for feedlot buyers rather than lighter with shape. Heifers could be sold at anytime from weanlings through to 30 months but usually at year and a half.

charolais0153

Most bulls as weanlings, aug-oct.
Some heifers as weanlings and others at 18 months.
Cull cows sold august aswell

K.G.

I know of a fella runs a few drystock.buys in the spring and sells autumn 12 months.his box takes two so he sells two a week for the autumn and buys two at a time in the spring.his theory is he gets the average-gets the good days and the bad days.also he has the dinner in the mart and has a good auld day around the mart.with all the talking he knows the ly of the land in the mart.the whole thing works perfect

memorystick

K.G. wrote: »

I know of a fella runs a few drystock.buys in the spring and sells autumn 12 months.his box takes two so he sells two a week for the autumn and buys two at a time in the spring.his theory is he gets the average-gets the good days and the bad days.also he has the dinner in the mart and has a good auld day around the mart.with all the talking he knows the ly of the land in the mart.the whole thing works perfect

Is he a bachelor?

bosallagh88

squinn2912 wrote: »

Just home from a weanling sale and all I think is Im glad I left the lads in The field! I mentioned to the boss one day that there seems to be no right time to sell. If you sell at weanling does it pay enough for the cow? I guess you need to hit the £700 mark? Then at times If you sell a comrade at a more store/forward stage the difference hardly meets dosing, meal and other costs. Any pearls of wisdom?

Was this in Ballymena ? I called in to the sale on Friday for a while and plainer lighter calves were well back on last year

squinn2912

Well lad. No well away from there but I think plainer stock were down everywhere. Whatever about the argument between weanling or keeping on there’s very little point in selling a weanling under 300kgs

patsy_mccabe

squinn2912 wrote: »

Well lad. No well away from there but I think plainer stock were down everywhere. Whatever about the argument between weanling or keeping on there’s very little point in selling a weanling under 300kgs

Is buying under 300kg weanlings a good buy then.

squinn2912

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

Well lad. No well away from there but I think plainer stock were down everywhere. Whatever about the argument between weanling or keeping on there’s very little point in selling a weanling under 300kgs

Is buying under 300kg weanlings a good buy then.

It depends. If the calf got a bad do then you can’t make that back up. They might not be much over 300 by the end of winter either. I’m not sure we buy hardly any so I wouldn’t have data. But getting £500-550 definitely doesn’t justify keeping a cow

bosallagh88

Yea the smaller calves get more of a setback at weaning so are harder to get going I think that’s why I think there’s less demand for them heifer calves around 250 kg struggled to get £2 a kg

CloughCasey1

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Is buying under 300kg weanlings a good buy then.

Thats what I try to buy Patsy suckler bred bulls at 4to5mts. I think there is a lot less stress them being weaned younger and they seem to trust me a lot quicker. Makes for stress free cattle and a happy animal thrives better. Problem is when they are 750kg and pets!!

Grueller

When I need to get the bank balance back up to zero.

squinn2912

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Is buying under 300kg weanlings a good buy then.

Thats what I try to buy Patsy suckler bred bulls at 4to5mts. I think there is a lot less stress them being weaned younger and they seem to trust me a lot quicker. Makes for stress free cattle and a happy animal thrives better. Problem is when they are 750kg and pets!!

What time of year do you buy? A lot of late calves there yesterday. I don’t know why anyone would keep a group of cows calving in May every year

kk.man

Take a hit if need be especially if it costs to finish. Don't be ashamed just move on and learn. What do they say about pride.....

K.G.

memorystick wrote: »

Is he a bachelor?

Dont know

squinn2912

kk.man wrote: »

Take a hit if need be especially if it costs to finish. Don't be ashamed just move on and learn. What do they say about pride.....

Hmm ah no I don’t need to sell them there’s room. Not taking less than they’re worth. Might go for bull beef with the best ones there’s 7 weaned yesterday well fit. If it goes to it there’s a few heifers 12-16 months I can let go in a few weeks off grass

CloughCasey1

squinn2912 wrote: »

What time of year do you buy? A lot of late calves there yesterday. I don’t know why anyone would keep a group of cows calving in May every year

Around now. Ive suckler bred weans bought for ave €525. 4-6mts old. They are out grazing the reseeded ground now and not doing any damage. ☺.

memorystick

K.G. wrote: »

Dont know

Sounds like a lad with not much to do and all day to do it.

squinn2912

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

What time of year do you buy? A lot of late calves there yesterday. I don’t know why anyone would keep a group of cows calving in May every year

Around now. Ive suckler bred weans bought for ave €525. 4-6mts old. They are out grazing the reseeded ground now and not doing any damage. ☺.

Do you buy off the same farmers or just what you like in mart? That can’t be covering anyone with cows. It amazes me every duck sale I go to the number of may/June calves at that type of weight. Don’t get me wrong we’ve got late calvers too but we’d hang onto them and sell them as stores. They’re not especially hard to feed

Bass Reeves

memorystick wrote: »

Sounds like a lad with not much to do and all day to do it.

Not really selling and buying are the two most important things for anyone involved in drystock. They can influence your profit loss more than anything else. I lay a wager that on any day he buy below the average if he is only buying two and sells above the average if only selling two. If cattle are going bad the day he sells he has the option of taking them home and lads around the ring know that. If his average selling price is 50/head above the average that is 100 euro for a days work and the same applies in reverse when buying. If buying as well and there is value he can still buy a few more and get them delivered. If he operated this system and buys 60 cattle/year and sell the same amount it would his income by 6K above the average. This could be on top of a normal margin of 200/head giving him an 18K rather than a 12K profit. Compare this to someone opearting below average only make 120/head or 7K profit.

Mooooo

Often hear of lads coming home with stock unsold, how much does it cost to go in and out with the same animal, diesel and time for a second trip to sell etc? Twud want to be more than 50 euro to make up the difference

DaDerv

Mooooo wrote: »

Often hear of lads coming home with stock unsold, how much does it cost to go in and out with the same animal, diesel and time for a second trip to sell etc? Twud want to be more than 50 euro to make up the difference

About 6 weeks ago I brought 7 store heifers to the local mart. I had a price agreed with my brother but said id chance it in the mart to see what I'd get (I thought I'd get more obviously) I was making a small bit more but the carry on of the fella's ring side drove me mad. I told the auctioneer to run the 7 through and I'm going home.

I had one particularly lovely U grade heifer in the bunch, as I walked out of the hut the buyer stopped me and offered me 10e more than i was getting in the ring. I told him to f**k off. It cost me 50e to bring them in and 80e to bring them home. I lost money, and a bit of dignity when I went back to the brother, but lessons were learned. I'd sooner he make money than those lads.

memorystick

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Not really selling and buying are the two most important things for anyone involved in drystock. They can influence your profit loss more than anything else. I lay a wager that on any day he buy below the average if he is only buying two and sells above the average if only selling two. If cattle are going bad the day he sells he has the option of taking them home and lads around the ring know that. If his average selling price is 50/head above the average that is 100 euro for a days work and the same applies in reverse when buying. If buying as well and there is value he can still buy a few more and get them delivered. If he operated this system and buys 60 cattle/year and sell the same amount it would his income by 6K above the average. This could be on top of a normal margin of 200/head giving him an 18K rather than a 12K profit. Compare this to someone opearting below average only make 120/head or 7K profit.

I'm not convinced.

Grueller

Mooooo wrote: »

Often hear of lads coming home with stock unsold, how much does it cost to go in and out with the same animal, diesel and time for a second trip to sell etc? Twud want to be more than 50 euro to make up the difference

I brought 3 home a while back and re sold them 2 weeks later. €460 gain in price after 2 weeks. Well worth tthe effort imo even at half that money.

squinn2912

A lot of the time I've felt we'd have got a better do last mart but no guarantees for the next mart. Very rarely take anything home. I've seen lads refuse to put them on the market and bring them back in for the same money and not a shilling more. Then often the buyers will do a deal with them outside in the yard but probably for less than if they'd been put in the market in the first place and maybe more than one would bid away. If I felt I was getting fair play on the day then I'd sell. We'd be in the mart every week but I don;t like the thought of coming back a week or a fortnight later with cattle.

Muckit

squinn2912 wrote: »

there’s very little point in selling a weanling under 300kgs

I don't know if l agree with that. You are equating more weight with more money (bigger sale price). Doesn't work that way. Most buyers aren't stupid. Does it pay to push on a bad march calf? Does it pay to push on a good late born calf?

Bullocks

Mooooo wrote: »

Often hear of lads coming home with stock unsold, how much does it cost to go in and out with the same animal, diesel and time for a second trip to sell etc? Twud want to be more than 50 euro to make up the difference

It will cost alright but in the long run if you are going to the same mart the buyers will know you're not a soft seller and it might benefit the next time more so. The same applies to the auctioneer, them boys know the sellers as well as the cattle they are selling and will throw them away for you to their buddies outside the ring if you don't put the foot down the odd time

patsy_mccabe

I've often seen lads refuse a price early on in a mart . They'd let them back in again later on and get exactly the same price. You'd really notice it if you were interested in the same type of cattle. As for coming back to sell another day, that's a gamble. Prices could go up or down in the meantime.

squinn2912

Muckit wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

there’s very little point in selling a weanling under 300kgs

I don't know if l agree with that. You are equating more weight with more money (bigger sale price). Doesn't work that way. Most buyers aren't stupid. Does it pay to push on a bad march calf? Does it pay to push on a good late born calf?

Well you get x per kilo. If you sell a very good calf at 250kgs will he make £650? He might but it’s unlikeky to pay for him and his mother for a year. If you have some stragglers are you better off hanging on to them? I opened this thread to see opinions I welcome disagreement!

Albert Johnson

Mooooo wrote: »

Often hear of lads coming home with stock unsold, how much does it cost to go in and out with the same animal, diesel and time for a second trip to sell etc? Twud want to be more than 50 euro to make up the difference

This is something I always tried to weigh up personally. It's case specific as some lads might be in the mart every week so towing in a trailer if they were going anyway couldn't cost much extra. Again if you could do your own haulage and had time to spare it could be worthwhile.
Their are lads who make a weeks wages hauling cheap bought cattle to different marts so it can be done. You need to know the value of your stock as it can go either way.
If on the other hand you worked full time and took one day off a year to sell your few weanlings and paid a haulier than you were probably better off to give them a hard try and sell away.

squinn2912

I think even on a bad day if you dig in enough you'll get the value of them or near it. If you think you're not getting that then mentioning it to the mart manager and taking them to another mart is an option - none of them like to see you changing marts but as the previous post says you need to know the value to begin with. No harm in being hard to please and letting it be known that you're prepared to finish them yourself so the buyers know that you're not in their pocket. As I've said I thought trade was poor, I happened to chat to three fellas who buy in all their stock and they thought it was a good trade - they'd what you getting nothing. 
Incidentally BBs on show weren't great but they got a horrible bad do.

bosallagh88

squinn2912 wrote: »

Muckit wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

there’s very little point in selling a weanling under 300kgs

I don't know if l agree with that. You are equating more weight with more money (bigger sale price). Doesn't work that way. Most buyers aren't stupid. Does it pay to push on a bad march calf? Does it pay to push on a good late born calf?

Well you get x per kilo. If you sell a very good calf at 250kgs will he make £650? He might but it’s unlikeky to pay for him and his mother for a year. If you have some stragglers are you better off hanging on to them? I opened this thread to see opinions I welcome disagreement!

But if you hold on to them you’d have to keep them at least 6mths as a calf at 250kgs is likely straight off the cow it’s going to get a right set back at weaning. would he weigh 370 kgs in April say £800 to £850 if you got 600+ Now would you be as well off ? Grass cattle were a flying trade in the spring but Who knows what cattle trade will be like this spring with brexit etc

bosallagh88

squinn2912 wrote: »

Muckit wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

there’s very little point in selling a weanling under 300kgs

I don't know if l agree with that. You are equating more weight with more money (bigger sale price). Doesn't work that way. Most buyers aren't stupid. Does it pay to push on a bad march calf? Does it pay to push on a good late born calf?

Well you get x per kilo. If you sell a very good calf at 250kgs will he make £650? He might but it’s unlikeky to pay for him and his mother for a year. If you have some stragglers are you better off hanging on to them? I opened this thread to see opinions I welcome disagreement!

But if you hold on to them you’d have to keep them at least 6mths as a calf at 250kgs is likely straight off the cow it’s going to get a right set back at weaning. would he weigh 370 kgs in April say £800 to £850 if you got 600+ Now would you be as well off ? Grass cattle were a flying trade in the spring but Who knows what cattle trade will be like this spring with brexit etc

squinn2912

Yea that’s a good point. It takes a good one at 250kgs to cross £600 so I suppose the question is will it cost more than £200 to get him to April? Anyone do budgeting on keeping animals that size over winter? I’d say last winter it wouldn’t have paid

bosallagh88

squinn2912 wrote: »

Yea that’s a good point. It takes a good one at 250kgs to cross £600 so I suppose the question is will it cost more than £200 to get him to April? Anyone do budgeting on keeping animals that size over winter? I’d say last winter it wouldn’t have paid

Yea haven’t costed them them myself but id say there wouldn’t be much change out of £200 anyway you would see a few farmers selling calves around the 320 -350kgs with 2 moves probably just summer grazed id say they d do well to break even there seems to be little demand for a “stiffer” type of calf

Bass Reeves

squinn2912 wrote: »

Yea that’s a good point. It takes a good one at 250kgs to cross £600 so I suppose the question is will it cost more than £200 to get him to April? Anyone do budgeting on keeping animals that size over winter? I’d say last winter it wouldn’t have paid

Weanling are cheap enough to carry over the winter. But a lot depends on you ability to buy ration at the right price and have good dry silage. Now if I have weanlings I do not want soft pugy one's that some lads at the marts like. In general 1.5kgs at grass as long as possible ration at 270/ton this year costing 41c/day + grass( we will round it to 60c/day) until December 10th= 32 euro. In shed silage and 1.5kgs of ration until 90c/day until April( if you were selling you will not remove ration) for 120 days = 108 euro dosing, vacination and mortality risk 30 euro. Total = 160 euro. I expect that the 250 kg weanling would be 350-370kgs at sale in April at 2.4/kg he be hitting 850 euro.

squinn2912

Bass Reeves wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

Yea that’s a good point. It takes a good one at 250kgs to cross £600 so I suppose the question is will it cost more than £200 to get him to April? Anyone do budgeting on keeping animals that size over winter? I’d say last winter it wouldn’t have paid

Weanling are cheap enough to carry over the winter. But a lot depends on you ability to buy ration at the right price and have good dry silage. Now if I have weanlings I do not want soft pugy one's that some lads at the marts like. In general 1.5kgs at grass as long as possible ration at 270/ton this year costing 41c/day + grass( we will round it to 60c/day) until December 10th= 32 euro. In shed silage and 1.5kgs of ration until 90c/day until April( if you were selling you will not remove ration) for 120 days = 108 euro dosing, vacination and mortality risk 30 euro. Total = 160 euro. I expect that the 250 kg weanling would be 350-370kgs at sale in April at 2.4/kg he be hitting 850 euro.

I didn’t want to start guessing costs as I knew you’d come in with the right costings. Brilliant post as always! With that applied you could reduce ration and have a good animal slightly south of 350kgs for grass, maybe get them out a bit earlier too

Bass Reeves

squinn2912 wrote: »

I didn’t want to start guessing costs as I knew you’d come in with the right costings. Brilliant post as always! With that applied you could reduce ration and have a good animal slightly south of 350kgs for grass, maybe get them out a bit earlier too

Weanlings are always last out with me if I have them. i am veering more ad more towards the store to beef route. Good dry silage 68-72 DMD and 35+ Dm ideally. Take away ration mid february. Feed limestone flour and minerals at 15-20 grams/100kgs. Do not squeeze until at grass 3-4 weeks.

squinn2912

Bass Reeves wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

I didn’t want to start guessing costs as I knew you’d come in with the right costings. Brilliant post as always! With that applied you could reduce ration and have a good animal slightly south of 350kgs for grass, maybe get them out a bit earlier too

Weanlings are always last out with me if I have them. i am veering more ad more towards the store to beef route. Good dry silage 68-72 DMD and 35+ Dm ideally. Take away ration mid february. Feed limestone flour and minerals at 15-20 grams/100kgs. Do not squeeze until at grass 3-4 weeks.

Usually same for us cows/calves get out first but often stores would get out on an out farm and we’ve tried weanlings our during the day for a week or two before getting out properly.

CloughCasey1

squinn2912 wrote: »

Do you buy off the same farmers or just what you like in mart? That can’t be covering anyone with cows. It amazes me every duck sale I go to the number of may/June calves at that type of weight. Don’t get me wrong we’ve got late calvers too but we’d hang onto them and sell them as stores. They’re not especially hard to feed

I buy a lot of one guy who buys cows for factory. He could have them 3 or 4 mts or could be straight in off another farm or mart. Any time i buy the calves are in one bay and cows across the passage in another bay. A week weans them and out to grass and kg high protien meal for a few months.

squinn2912

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

Do you buy off the same farmers or just what you like in mart? That can’t be covering anyone with cows. It amazes me every duck sale I go to the number of may/June calves at that type of weight. Don’t get me wrong we’ve got late calvers too but we’d hang onto them and sell them as stores. They’re not especially hard to feed

I buy a lot of one guy who buys cows for factory. He could have them 3 or 4 mts or could be straight in off another farm or mart. Any time i buy the calves are in one bay and cows across the passage in another bay. A week weans them and out to grass and kg high protien meal for a few months.

Hang on do you buy cows with calves then wean? I’m confused!

CloughCasey1

squinn2912 wrote: »

Hang on do you buy cows with calves then wean? I’m confused!

No i buy the calves of a guy who buys cows with the calves at foot.

squinn2912

Ah that makes sense. So he buys them not in calf?

Hard Knocks

squinn2912 wrote: »

Ah that makes sense. So he buys them not in calf?

He’d buy a suckler outfit, sell clough the calf & fatten the cow

squinn2912

Yep so cows that aren’t in calf then if he’s fattening them. We’ve two outfits like that now and the calves would be that type of weight. We won’t sell them though we’ll wean the calves and keep them separate.

Albert Johnson

As to whether or not the cows would be incalf or not would be a lottery. Once there not to near calving and leave a profit it wouldn't make much difference. A certain percentage of cows slaughtered will be incalf, some lads have a knack of picking cows that are carrying calves and buy these types in the cull ring. I've seen cows announced as scanned in calf 2 to 3 months with A.I. dockets bought for killing if the sums stacked up.
Splitting sucker teams and fattening the cow or buying springers to do the same after calving is becoming very popular. During the summer it was easier to sell older or plainer suckler teams than fancier outfits. The reason being there were no suckler men interested in bulling or calving the cow again, therefore she had no long-time value above what she was worth hung up.