Switching from regular car to electric car, worth it?

Candlestick1

Hi I’m thinking of trading in my car for an electric one but would like to hear from users whether it’s worth my while. I live in a rural area with windy roads and just one charging point 10k away so I’ll be doing the majority of my charging at home. Is it expensive to have a power point installed? What make of car would you recommend? It won’t be used for very long journeys but I’d like to feel confident that it won’t die on me.
Thanks in advance for any advice you might have.

kuro68k

If you can charge at home then go for it!

Think about what kind of range you need, and plan a few example trips on Google Maps. Most people vastly over-estimate how far away stuff is for some reason.

What make depends on what you want. The new Hyundai Kona Electric and Kia eNiro are both quite attractively priced and come with very large batteries. The new Nissan Leaf isn't bad either. Alternatively there are more traditional options like the VW eGolf. On the cheaper end there is also the Renault Zoe.

Have a look at a few and tell us which ones you are interested in, and we can tell you more about them.

Once you got electric you won't want to go back. They are just so much fun to drive, so smooth yet also powerful, and of course really quiet. I've had two Leafs and want to get another EV, if I only I could charge at home!

unkel

What's your budget? And what are the longest drives you plan to do in it?

Candlestick1 wrote: »

Is it expensive to have a power point installed?

No. You get a €600 subsidy towards installing one. If you buy a second hand charger, your total cost would be less than €600, so the install would be free

If you buy a brand new basic charger, your total costs should still be around the €600, mark, making it almost free after the subsidy

zg3409

What car do you currently have? Is it too big or small?

Are you a 2 car household ?

What is the furthest distance you have travelled in the past year?

doolox

...or do you need a charger to do the job. I would be willing to wait overnight for a full charge (10 hours) as my hours are very regular.

My mileage is very high on one day a week, c 200km so this might rule out an
e-car until the range increases somewhat.

_Brian

What annual mileage have you put on your current car.

Think about your daily trips, will the range of an electric car cover these.

doolox

Mostly under the 100Km. Per day.

Occasionally I might have to go from Dublin to Athlone and back.

Also a few trips Dublin to Letterkenny each year.

dmcg90

doolox wrote: »

Mostly under the 100Km. Per day.

Occasionally I might have to go from Dublin to Athlone and back.

Also a few trips Dublin to Letterkenny each year.

In a similar situation myself, thinking about a Niro/Kona as they can do over 400km on a charge and depending on how quick they can make them a Tesla Model 3.

The Model 3 is the most attractive to me, despite the higher price, you would get access to supercharger points which I think other brands wouldn't have access to. You'd still be able to charge at Ionity (when they launch) and ESB points too.

kuro68k

Zoe can also do over 200km on a charge, and the Leaf 40 can if you drive moderately efficiently. But yeah, a Kona/Niro would be ideal for that journey.

Or could you charge at your destination? Just plug in to an ordinary socket, then you could easily do 200km even with a Leaf 30.

I wouldn't bother with the Model 3. You will be waiting until 2021 for one.

ELM327

Lots of EVs on thread and no one has mentioned Ioniq

Candlestick1

Thanks for all the great advice. I’ll be trading in a Renault kadjar so the Zoe would be the most sensible. I don’t want another big car and my budget is as little as I can get away with. We have a second car for long distance. I mostly do distances of around 20k but that’s hard driving on narrow windy roads and then the odd round trip of 120k.
Do you end up with crazy electricity bills when charging at home?

ELM327

Candlestick1 wrote: »

Thanks for all the great advice. I’ll be trading in a Renault kadjar so the Zoe would be the most sensible. I don’t want another big car and my budget is as little as I can get away with. We have a second car for long distance. I mostly do distances of around 20k but that’s hard driving on narrow windy roads and then the odd round trip of 120k.
Do you end up with crazy electricity bills when charging at home?

No.


I do 50k+km per year and it would cost me €14 per week to charge at home on night rate if I charged from empty to full every night.
In reality I charge overnight twice per week at the weekends only, during the week I charge for free at work.


My 110-120km return commute would cost approx €1-1.20 in electricity per day.

PS: If you're deciding to get a Zoe make sure it doesnt have a battery lease

unkel

Candlestick1 wrote: »

Do you end up with crazy electricity bills when charging at home?

I've had my EV for 18 months now and 23k km. I went into a fixed price electricity contract so the car didn't cost me a cent to charge for the first year

This contract is now finished. From now on, it costs me about €9 per 1000 km (less than one cent per km) in electricity charging my car at home on the night rate. My previous car cost about €0.30 per km on petrol, so 30 times as much.

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

I've had my EV for 18 months now and 23k km. I went into a fixed price electricity contract so the car didn't cost me a cent to charge for the first year

This contract is now finished. From now on, it costs me about €9 per 1000 km (less than one cent per km) in electricity charging my car at home on the night rate. My previous car cost about €0.30 per km on petrol, so 30 times as much.

I've had mine since May this year and done the exact some 23k km in that time. (4k on the odo when I got it, now at 27k)
Cost me the princely sum of €6 to do that 23k km as I charged all the time at work or public chargers! EVs are great when the juice is free, and almost as great at less than €2 for 200km!

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

I've had mine since May this year and done the exact some 23k km in that time. (4k on the odo when I got it, now at 27k)
Cost me the princely sum of €6 to do that 23k km as I charged all the time at work or public chargers! EVs are great when the juice is free, and almost as great at less than €2 for 200km!

What was the €6 for.... coffee and a doughnut!

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

What was the €6 for.... coffee and a doughnut!

3 home charges lol

Patser

KCross wrote: »

What was the €6 for.... coffee and a doughnut!

Spare pack of AAAs in case of emergency?

Nedved85

ELM327 wrote: »

I've had mine since May this year and done the exact some 23k km in that time. (4k on the odo when I got it, now at 27k)
Cost me the princely sum of €6 to do that 23k km as I charged all the time at work or public chargers! EVs are great when the juice is free, and almost as great at less than €2 for 200km!

I'm looking to upgrade soon enough.

Been closely watching the usage of my 1.7l Diesel.

€35 and its take me around 420km (I think, will have to double check). One long distance journey, the rest were multiple short journeys.

Free charging in work too so I must move soon

MicktheMan

unkel wrote: »

My previous car cost about €0.30 per km on petrol, so 30 times as much.

:eek::eek::eek:
You sure?

unkel

Jaguar S-type 3l V6 petrol automatic. Used for a lot of short trips in Dublin area start stop traffic. About 15mpg -> 24km per gallon -> 24km / 4.5l -> 24km / €6.80 -> 1km / €0.28

MicktheMan

wow

unkel

An extreme example, I know. But still, in a very frugal modern diesel family size car, you might get 60mpg. That's still 7.5c/km. Compared to 0.9c/km in my family size EV. Diesel more than 8 times as expensive as electric.

And of course, a lot of EV owners charge for free at work. And all 1200 public charge points including all the public fast chargers, are still completely free. And nobody makes petrol or diesel at home, but throw a few cheap solar panels on your roof and you can make your own electricity. Then there's the low depreciation, cheap tax, cheap insurance, almost zero maintenance, cheap tolls, etc.

And the tiny benefit of course that you don't give your children lung cancer.

Nedved85

I'm tracking the performance of my diesel now.

Going to track it over the next month or so.

So far I'm on 8c/km

If I had an EV, it'd more than likely be free as there is usually a free spot available in work and I'd only need to charge once/twice a week if I'm not doing a long distance run.

unkel

Nedved85 wrote: »

So far I'm on 8c/km

If I had an EV, it'd more than likely be free as there is usually a free spot available in work

Even if you had to pay for all your electricity at home, and say you do 30k km per year, then your fuel savings alone are well over 2 grand a year. If you include the other savings, it could well make buying a brand new car be cheaper than keeping your current diesel car :cool:

Nedved85

unkel wrote: »

Even if you had to pay for all your electricity at home, and say you do 30k km per year, then your fuel savings alone are well over 2 grand a year. If you include the other savings, it could well make buying a brand new car be cheaper than keeping your current diesel car :cool:

Exactly.

You're preaching to the converted (not actually converted yet though )

I probably do around 15000 km per year.

Will check the records from my service to actually find the real figure.

One thing I'd be wary of though is how the Government are going to replace the revenue lost when EV's go full main stream (say from 2022 onwards)

My plan is to fire up as many solar panels as I can and get a battery installed (When the price starts to come down).

paula284

I have my Leaf a month. Many regrets. Don't buy unless you are 110% sure that you won't be looking to do long journeys. The public charger points are unreliable. There's a reason why the AA supply an emergency charge to cars that run out.... and they don't run out because drivers 'forgot' to fill up.

ELM327

If you're relying daily on the public network then you have bought the wrong car

KCross

paula284 wrote: »

I have my Leaf a month. Many regrets. Don't buy unless you are 110% sure that you won't be looking to do long journeys. The public charger points are unreliable. There's a reason why the AA supply an emergency charge to cars that run out.... and they don't run out because drivers 'forgot' to fill up.

What version of the Leaf did you buy... 24, 30 or 40?

What distance journeys are you doing that you got caught?

As ELM suggested, did you buy on the basis that you were going to be using the public charge points everyday? That would have been a mistake and many of us here would have pointed that out to you if you asked before buying. No consolation to you now I guess.

paula284

No, not at all reliant. I have a proper car too!

KCross

paula284 wrote: »

No, not at all reliant. I have a proper car too!

So, whats the issue you are having?
If you are going beyond the range of the car just take the proper car. How did you get caught?

paula284

40.
I didn't get caught, tg. Nor will I, I'll be driving a regular car for those longer days.

TheChizler

So what was the problem?

paula284

The Leaf is fine for tipping around but I wouldn't take it far enough away to where I NEED to charge it. If I can charge it in a public point ( happened once) that's great but its just a bonus.

ELM327

paula284 wrote: »

No, not at all reliant. I have a proper car too!

So this is just a p1ss poor attempt at trolling, or?

paula284

No, I have the car, and that's fine. I thought it would be useful for others to keep in mind that the cost of fuel should not be a blinding factor when deciding to purchase. I'm glad I have another car or I would have been stuck! That's all. I'm leaving it at that.

ELM327

If you get stuck it's due to one of 3 things

1 - bad planning - your fault
2 - you bought the wrong car - your fault
3 - network issues (outages, in use etc) - not your fault.

#3 is the only one that's not your fault, but should have been clear to you before purchase.

paula284

ELM327 wrote: »

If you get stuck it's due to one of 3 things

1 - bad planning - your fault
2 - you bought the wrong car - your fault
3 - network issues (outages, in use etc) - not your fault.

#3 is the only one that's not your fault, but should have been clear to you before purchase.

I'm not blaming anyone. I just think its useful for others to be aware of the pitfalls. I like having a cheap ride as much as anyone but my time is valuable too. As I said, I didn't get 'stuck', no bad planning, I like the car, the infrastructure isn't there yet and I have a proper car too. so, no big deal for me. Information is King!

unkel

It looks like you didn't make a very well informed decision when you bought, paula284. Which is unfortunate as a quick thread up on this forum would have given you all the pros and cons based on your situation. We would have asked about your daily and weekly driving patterns, where you are based, if you have home and or work charging etc. All the relevant questions really and we would have given you decent answers based on our own experience. You have been on boards for nearly 5 years and you can obviously find this forum

I'm glad though that in your particular case, you are fine. As you have another car

But no doubt there are people like you who bought an EV (as their only car) and then found out it is not really that suitable for them

ELM327

paula284 wrote: »

I'm not blaming anyone. I just think its useful for others to be aware of the pitfalls. I like having a cheap ride as much as anyone but my time is valuable too. As I said, I didn't get 'stuck', no bad planning, I like the car, the infrastructure isn't there yet and I have a proper car too. so, no big deal for me. Information is King!

There are no pitfalls except misinformation or bad planning.

paula284

ELM327 wrote: »

There are no pitfalls except misinformation or bad planning.

Perhaps if you read Eddie Cunningham’s article in the Independent on 7th Nov 18 it might explain better what I’m saying. The infrastructure is not there at the moment to support large scale use of EV.

ELM327

paula284 wrote: »

Perhaps if you read Eddie Cunningham’s article in the Independent on 7th Nov 18 it might explain better what I’m saying. The infrastructure is not there at the moment to support large scale use of EV.

I don't need to read the opinion of someone who doesnt have an EV.

I do 50-60k km in my EV and have never been stranded or "stuck".

unkel

paula284 wrote: »

Perhaps if you read Eddie Cunningham’s article in the Independent on 7th Nov 18 it might explain better what I’m saying. The infrastructure is not there at the moment to support large scale use of EV.

Eddie Cunningham isn't really up to speed when it comes to EVs. Mind, he's better informed than most other Irish motoring journos.

And what article from November 7th, 2018 do you mean? The one where he merely relays some statements from Toyota (who don't make EVs) that the world isn't ready for EVs yet?

This article?

KCross

paula284 wrote: »

I have my Leaf a month. Many regrets. Don't buy unless you are 110% sure that you won't be looking to do long journeys. The public charger points are unreliable. There's a reason why the AA supply an emergency charge to cars that run out.... and they don't run out because drivers 'forgot' to fill up.

paula284 wrote: »

I'm not blaming anyone. I just think its useful for others to be aware of the pitfalls. I like having a cheap ride as much as anyone but my time is valuable too. As I said, I didn't get 'stuck', no bad planning, I like the car, the infrastructure isn't there yet and I have a proper car too. so, no big deal for me. Information is King!

I guess some folks here, myself included, are a bit perplexed by your comments.

I think nearly all of us agree the infrastructure in the country is very poor and getting worse. We agree that anyone buying an EV needs to understand that before they put their hard earned cash on the line and be sure that the car suits your needs without frequent reliance on the public network. I think thats primarily what you are saying?

However, your initial post said you had your new EV for a month and you had "Many regrets" but then went on to say you "like the car" and hadnt been stuck etc.

So, what exact issues did you have and what are the "many regrets" so that people can understand the context of your issues because your comments would suggest you are sorry you bought the car. Its the mixed messages I think you need to clarify.

paula284

Yes, I agree. ''the infrastructure is very bad and is getting worse'' = regrets

Mancomb Seepgood

paula284 wrote: »

Yes, I agree. ''the infrastructure is very bad and is getting worse'' = regrets

I can see where you're coming from (though hopefully there is light at the end of the tunnel),but in my case I use the charging infrastructure so rarely that it's something I can cope with,and I don't even have access to another car.Given you have a backup vehicle for the occasional longer journey it sounds like a perfect setup and the Leaf 40 should be fine for you.

ELM327

paula284 wrote: »

Yes, I agree. ''the infrastructure is very bad and is getting worse'' = regrets

Surely this was clear before purchasing.
You've been a boards member for 4+ years, the issues around current infrastructure are a daily topic here.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

Surely this was clear before purchasing.

Obviously not. A lot of new EV buyers seem pretty unaware / uninformed. Like the 182D Leaf owner leaving his car charging for hours on end at his local fast charger while he and his family spent the afternoon at a large shopping mall

But your point (and mine) is that paula284 would have been very aware about the pros and cons had she (as a long time boards member who can find their way to the EV forum) put up a thread here or even spent just a few hours reading this forum on any day this past year or so...

KCross

unkel wrote: »

But your point (and mine) is that paula284 would have been very aware about the pros and cons had she (as a long time boards member who can find their way to the EV forum) put up a thread here or even spent just a few hours reading this forum on any day this past year or so...

4yr member but only posted for the first time yesterday!

I'd hazard a guess that they didnt visit this forum before buying and doesnt really use boards until now when they had a concern to air.

creedp

ELM327 wrote: »

Surely this was clear before purchasing.
You've been a boards member for 4+ years, the issues around current infrastructure are a daily topic here.

Probably should but to be honest the network is deteriorating weekly, in terms of demand far outstripping the availability of public chargers. By the way PHEV's are a significant contributor to this deterioration. At this point when I am looking around for a public charge point more often than not it is occupied by a PHEV. One in particular is regularly used by a 182 Range Rover. I'm not saying that PHEV's shouldn't have access to public chargers but the reality is that the network can't cope with the volume of EV's on the road not to mind EV + PHEVs. This is one of the reasons why I disagree with on-street chargers being classified as a destination charger. IMO until supply is improved, EV charger spaces should only be used while charging to maximise their availability. Its a real PITA to see a scarce resource being taken up all day by a PHEV which doesn't need the charge to complete a journey - unless it is also out of petrol!!

While people on here might argue that before you bought an EV you should have foreseen the increase in demand by both car categories and bided your time, I think that is giving the ordinary consumer too much credit. At this stage I have to laugh at the SEAI adds promoting the €10k grants and 70% reduction in running costs for new EVs and describing the experience of owning and driving an EVs as the same as any other type of car when it patently isn't. Maybe the SEAI should sit in a current low budget EV and try and drive it around the country and then report on the experience.

1874

Im still interested in an electric car or at worst a hybrid myself, suprised to see there is a hybrid ioniq in the UK albeit a diesel one, there seems to be a few options available now? Niro, Kona, Ioniq, and of course the Leaf.
I like the look of the new leaf but, Id like to look into any options before I buy, Pros and Cons, I think I could probably easily get away with an older Leaf 30kw? as my usual mileage is low, but I do have the odd long journey too, so still not 100% certain of hybrid vs EV.
Do all the public charging points have standard or suitable connectors for all EV cars or are there a set few types?
Any ideas what the servicing costs of a Leaf or other EVs are? presumably dealers dont want to lose the servicing charges and they may find some other way to add those?
Ive always done all my own servicing and mostly all other work, so specific servicing work is not likely to be something I can do myself if it requires specific equipment.

DrPhilG

paula284 wrote: »

The infrastructure is not there at the moment to support large scale use of EV.

Which brings us back to the question that you don't seem to be answering.

Why did you buy one?