Changing a child's surname

Beta Ray Bill

All,

I have a 3 year old child.
I broke up with my kids mother in August 2017 after a 9 year relationship, we were not married.

My kid has my surname, lets call it X.
My Ex wants to change my kids surname to Y as she's concerned that when our kid starts school they'll be questioned as to why they have a different surname to their Mother.

I do not want it changed for various reasons. I think she is overthinking the situation.

As far as I am aware you cannot legally change your surname unless you get married, is this correct?

G.

Redchick

It an be changed but needs to be done by deed poll and you will have to sign the forms agreeing to it. For a child under 14 the parents can submit the application on their behalf.

Beta Ray Bill

Thanks Redchick

If she wished to proceed without my consent, could she?
How can I find out if she has attempted or has already changed my child's surname?

c6ysaphjvqw41k

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grahambo wrote: »

As far as I am aware you cannot legally change your surname unless you get married, is this correct?

No, this is incorrect. There are 3 ways in which it can be changed, the most likely option if you are refusing to allow is is through common usage.

All your ex has to do is change it with the school, with the GP, with clubs etc, then when it comes round to renewing the passport provide evidence that the new name is in common usage as above.

The details on how to change it in other ways are here:
https://businessandlegal.ie/how-to-change-a-childs-surname-in-ireland

Im failing to understand why you are insistent on your child keeping your surname when the child presumably lives with its mother and its the mother who will be responsible for all of the day to day interactions that involve the childs name such as schools, GPs, dentists, clubs etc..?

Far easier for the family unit to have one name I would have thought?

It also makes far more sense for the maternal name to be the one used in cases of unmarried parents.

Triceratops Ballet

This is why parents should seriously consider double barrel surnames. If a child of unwed parents has both names there should be no questions around them travelling or anything with either parent. If the child has only one there's going to be issues for everyone. Obviously if the parents marry later on and either parent opts to take the others name that resolves everything.

seamus

I've heard plenty of claims about a different surname being an issue, but my wife has a different surname to the kids, and it's never once been a problem.

I think for the most part women being stopped at airports or questioned by schools about different surnames, is a bit of an urban myth. Or something which used to happen when Ireland was more puritanical. I've heard plenty of people "worried" about it, but never once heard of it actually happening.

To answer the OP's question, as others have said there is no specific rules about the circumstances in which one can change your name. Deed poll is one instant and official way, but you can also just use a different name and over time you will become entitled to use it.

To satisfy the child's mother, she can register the child at the school with her surname and won't require any legal documents or changes. The child's passport will have one name, and she will be registered at the school with another.

By the time the child is 16 she will then have acquired, through regular usage, the right to use either or both surnames for official purposes.

c6ysaphjvqw41k

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wexie

grahambo wrote: »

All,
My Ex wants to change my kids surname to Y as she's concerned that when our kid starts school they'll be questioned as to why they have a different surname to their Mother.

'because my mummy and daddy aren't together anymore'

It's literally that simple....

Coming from the school kids that is, and to be honest it might be a long time before the kids even become aware of any of this because they won't know any better than : that's 'mary' so and so's mummy.

If it causes a problem with the school of course that's something entirely different but they'll just have to deal with it and I'd imagine they are well used to it.

Ryker Nutritious Storefront wrote: »

I am a person who had a different surname to my mother when I was in school. It caused some amount of trouble, and even outside school for traveling etc.

I am also a person who had a different name to my mother when I was in school and it caused absolutely no problems, whatsoever.

wexie

seamus wrote: »

I've heard plenty of claims about a different surname being an issue, but my wife has a different surname to the kids, and it's never once been a problem.

I think for the most part women being stopped at airports or questioned by schools about different surnames, is a bit of an urban myth. Or something which used to happen when Ireland was more puritanical. I've heard plenty of people "worried" about it, but never once heard of it actually happening.

People at airports and the likes are well used to dealing with things like these and will ask (if they feel necessary) the child very cute and innocent questions to figure out what the story is.

Things like 'are you going on a trip with your auntie?'

'no this is my mummy!!' comes the reply.

Beta Ray Bill

wexie wrote: »

People at airports and the likes are well used to dealing with things like these and will ask (if they feel necessary) the child very cute and innocent questions to figure out what the story is.

Things like 'are you going on a trip with your auntie?'

'no this is my mummy!!' comes the reply.

She's traveled through the airport on multiple times with my kid without me and there has never been an issue.

Redchick

grahambo wrote: »

Thanks Redchick

If she wished to proceed without my consent, could she?
How can I find out if she has attempted or has already changed my child's surname?

Once your name is registered on the child's birth certificate you have to give permission. One of my relatives has personal experience of this. They eventually gave permission for the change but it was a very difficult decision and caused a lot of hurt to them.

To be fair lots of kids have different surnames to their parents.....can't really see it being an issue to be honest. People really don't bat an eyelid about different surnames anymore - thankfully!! Is it possible her motives lie elsewhere? As in is she acting out of hurt or retalliation etc.

Beta Ray Bill

Redchick wrote: »

Once your name is registered on the child's birth certificate you have to give permission. One of my relatives has personal experience of this. They eventually gave permission for the change but it was a very difficult decision and caused a lot of hurt to them.

To be fair lots of kids have different surnames to their parents.....can't really see it being an issue to be honest. People really don't bat an eyelid about different surnames anymore - thankfully!! Is it possible her motives lie elsewhere? As in is she acting out of hurt or retalliation etc.

I'd say it's more out of guilt to be honest, given the way the relationship ended.

If it were changed, I'd find it very hurtful.

neonsofa

Ryker Nutritious Storefront wrote: »

It isn't an urban myth. My aunt kept her maiden name and has to travel with her children's birth certs. My mother once was stopped picking me up from school when I was ill because she had my stepdads name. The teacher was new and it was all sorted when one who knew us came. Still awkward though.

I've a different surname to my child and although I bring birth cert just in case when travelling, I've never actually needed it.

I was told all of the horror stories about travelling and issues with hospitals and consent for procedures etc if my name is different, but I've been through hospitals too many times to count and it's never once been an issue. I'm listed as next of kin and that's that. School has never been an issue. The occasional time I might be accidentally called Mrs. Ex's last Name and it makes my skin crawl a little but that's about the worst of it!

My concerns were more about how the child felt especially now as the father is no longer really involved but that's a whole different story to the practicalities of it.

c6ysaphjvqw41k

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wexie

grahambo wrote: »

She's traveled through the airport on multiple times with my kid without me and there has never been an issue.

I didn't mean that to sound like an issue, it's how the folks at border control check things like that. They think it's probably the mother, and ask questions like that to confirm. It's hard to get young kids to lie reliably.

There are so many people out there who have different names, family configurations etc. etc. there is absolutely no need for it to be an issue.

We as a family had 2 names (wife hadn't changed her passport) and 3 different nationality passports and it's never caused an issue.

Redchick

Ryker Nutritious Storefront wrote: »

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Its just a name. They don't become any less your child if it gets changed. I hope you don't have a girl because you might become very hurt if she gets married.[/quote]

Wow that's a bit harsh. He's the child's dad - of course he'd find it hurtful for them to stop using his surname. To people on the outside it might be "just a name" but it's so much more than that to the OP!

And I'm married but didn't take my husbands name - that's pretty commonplace now you know!!!!

Redchick

grahambo wrote: »

Redchick wrote: »

Once your name is registered on the child's birth certificate you have to give permission. One of my relatives has personal experience of this. They eventually gave permission for the change but it was a very difficult decision and caused a lot of hurt to them.

To be fair lots of kids have different surnames to their parents.....can't really see it being an issue to be honest. People really don't bat an eyelid about different surnames anymore - thankfully!! Is it possible her motives lie elsewhere? As in is she acting out of hurt or retalliation etc.

I'd say it's more out of guilt to be honest, given the way the relationship ended.

If it were changed, I'd find it very hurtful.

I'm sure you would be very hurt - it can feel like a rejection. Maybe if you explained how it's making you feel to your ex then perhaps as someone else suggested she would consider changing to a double-barrelled name? It would be a fair enough compromise.

seamus

grahambo wrote: »

I'd say it's more out of guilt to be honest, given the way the relationship ended.

If it were changed, I'd find it very hurtful.

As I mention above, a deliberate legal change of the name is absolutely not necessary. So I think you have a right to feel hurt about it; it can't be anything but an attack on you if she insists on going ahead with it.

Tell her to register the child at the school with her own surname. They will likely require the birth cert, but will allow her and the child to use whatever surname they want for everyday usage.

This gives your daughter options, and the freedom to choose surnames later in life. If her name is legally changed now, then there are more barriers to her using your surname later.

ted1

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

This is why parents should seriously consider double barrel surnames. If a child of unwed parents has both names there should be no questions around them travelling or anything with either parent. If the child has only one there's going to be issues for everyone. Obviously if the parents marry later on and either parent opts to take the others name that resolves everything.

I’ve a thing about parents giving kids double barrel surnames.

Do you expect their kids to have quad barrel ?

neonsofa

grahambo wrote: »

I'd say it's more out of guilt to be honest, given the way the relationship ended.

If it were changed, I'd find it very hurtful.

From the side of the mother in a similar situation, I did sometimes question if I should change my own child's name. And it wasn't out of anger/malice/wanting to hurt or distance the father from the child, moreso concern for the child and how they would feel having a different name to (in my case) the main carer and main side of the family that they interact with etc. They'd be the only one with a different name to all close family and my concern was their feelings on that.

Perhaps she's feeling a similar sense of worry, and also probably the same kind of hurt you are currently feeling about the prospect of not sharing a name with your child? Maybe she is upset for the same reasons you are?

godtabh

My wife just traveled to America with my daughter. Daughter has my name. My wife uses her maiden name. No issues traveling in either direction

Gatling

For a school a mother can insist that the Child is called by her name if she choses to ,you cant legally force her or the school not to ,
This is where decent relations can turn quite sour ,
I'd thread carefully and pick your battles this ,there could be bigger battles in the future

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seamus wrote: »

I think for the most part women being stopped at airports or questioned by schools about different surnames, is a bit of an urban myth. Or something which used to happen when Ireland was more puritanical. I've heard plenty of people "worried" about it, but never once heard of it actually happening.

Not an urban myth at all but less likely to happen these days as children are no longer on their parents passports.

It can give rise to problems travelling in certain middle eastern or african countries though, a woman travelling alone with a child of a different surname will be treated with suspicion.

Travel in Europe or throughout the Commonwealth should be fine.

Edited to add - actually a friend of mine was stopped with her daughter going to South Africa last year, in Dublin airport - it was due to the airline having new anti child trafficking measures. She was told she had to produce the childs birth cert AND an affidavit from the childs father. It was a Saturday afternoon and they live in West Cork so they had to miss that flight, drive all the way back to West Cork, try find someone to do an affidvat on a Saturday night - which they couldnt do, in the end, the childs father bought a ticket and took an impromptu trip with them just so the child could travel with his mother. It cost them over 2k and he was lucky to be in a position that he could just leave work for 3 weeks at no notice.

I generally find possessive attitudes to surnames quite baffling though, anyone may choose to change their own name when they are old enough (or it may change through marriage), so there is no point in insisting someone carries your name as a child anyway.

I would also suggest that for all the same reasons the OP wants his child to have his name - they also apply to the mother of that child. In addition to this the child lives with its mother so the family identity is going to be strongly wrapped around the mother for the child.

I think Seamus' earlier suggestion of registering at school in the mothers name while the fathers name is on the birth cert is a good compromise and gives the child the choice later on.

Here we go

Try to remove your feelings and that of your ex and think what's best for your child
. If there an only child and the plan on her side is to stay that way then it's only the legal bits to worrie about . no big deal maybe double barrel it. If they have a brother or sister in the future then it may be best for them to share the same name. Yes I know you may plan also to have more children in the future. But I believe they will have a closer bond with the sibling they live with and one they share a maternal bond with.

TrixIrl

My parents split up 20 years ago and it would have been so so so much easier if we had mams name rather than Dads.

It meant that our private family situation was flagged (and generally had to be explained) to everyone whether it be new school, first bank account, first holiday, passports, college grant, gp appts or anything else you need a parent for. Mam did her best and kept her married name but when she remarried it became ridiculous as she had paperwork in maiden, married and remarried names - to this day if I'm doing something as innocuous as confirming a hotel reservation I have no idea what name she will be booked under.

Having said that.... (a) its 20 years ago and attitudes in Ireland have dramatically changed and people probably wont bat an eyelid and (b) you sound like you will be much more involved in your kids life so it will only be an issue at most 50% of the time.

Overall, if I was in this situation I would probably be looking at a double barreled surname just for official use. And leave day-to-day surname as is until child is old enough to decide themselves.

Triceratops Ballet

ted1 wrote:

I’ve a thing about parents giving kids double barrel surnames.

This is slightly OT but
Why? it's exceptionally common outside of the Anglo-sphere and millions of people manage it just fine. It's also going to be much more of a thing with same sex couples having kids where there isn't a societal expectation that one party will change their name. It's the solution that makes most logical sense, especially when parents aren't married.

ted1 wrote:

Do you expect their kids to have quad barrel ?

I don't really expect anything, they can do what works for them, dropping one of each of their names and make a new double barrel seems the most obvious

Woden

You can and sometimes do get asked for the birth cert while travelling. My partner does not have the same surname as our child and we were in adjacent passport booths in arrivals at Dublin were she was asked for the birth cert (we bring a copy when travelling) for this purpose.

Here we go

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

This is slightly OT but
Why? it's exceptionally common outside of the Anglo-sphere and millions of people manage it just fine. It's also going to be much more of a thing with same sex couples having kids where there isn't a societal expectation that one party will change their name. It's the solution that makes most logical sense, especially when parents aren't married.



I don't really expect anything, they can do what works for them, dropping one of each of their names and make a new double barrel seems the most obvious

This I find kids will pick the one of the two they like the most and use that in day to day life

Mitch Connor

seamus wrote: »

I've heard plenty of claims about a different surname being an issue, but my wife has a different surname to the kids, and it's never once been a problem.

I think for the most part women being stopped at airports or questioned by schools about different surnames, is a bit of an urban myth. Or something which used to happen when Ireland was more puritanical. I've heard plenty of people "worried" about it, but never once heard of it actually happening.

To answer the OP's question, as others have said there is no specific rules about the circumstances in which one can change your name. Deed poll is one instant and official way, but you can also just use a different name and over time you will become entitled to use it.

To satisfy the child's mother, she can register the child at the school with her surname and won't require any legal documents or changes. The child's passport will have one name, and she will be registered at the school with another.

By the time the child is 16 she will then have acquired, through regular usage, the right to use either or both surnames for official purposes.

My wifes aunt was stopped last year in Dublin airport as her kid has a different surname. She was also bring a couple of nephews abroad, which share her surname and there was no issue with them - just because it was the same name.

ELM327

Myself, my partner and her two kids have gone on a number of holidays abroad.
I have my name, she has her maiden last name and the children have their father's last name.

No issues with travel at all.

When we have our own child it will be even funnier as there will be even more disparity. This "makes it difficult to travel" nonsense is unfounded. Once each child and each adult has a valid passport there is no issue. Names are just an ID tag, like a barcode.

SeanMacAB

My kids have double barrels. I thought double barrells was a handy solution and the kids can use whatever one they want when they get older. It should be about practicality and not Patriarchal notions.

hullaballoo

My kids have double-barrel names too. Again, it's down to practicalities.

I don't think my fiancée will take my name unless I agree to take hers too so either we'll all have the same double-barrel name or both parents will continue to have different names with the kids having both names.

The kids are only small, 3.5 and 1.5, but we've already had the issue of schools and, in particular, State bodies deciding to drop one of the surnames. You have to be quite insistent about it, too. For whatever reason, the bureaucrats always seem to think they know better.

Steviesol

I haven't seen the question being asked. Apologies if it has.

It really all boils down to whether the OP is a legal guardian of the child . If not, then the mother can change it legally.

If the OP is a guardian either through marriage or consent in the district court then the Mother will need the OP's permission and signature on documents.

That is what it all boils down to.

splinter65

What remains though is that the fathers name, once it’s on the birth cert, can not be removed.

Steviesol

splinter65 wrote: »

What remains though is that the fathers name, once it’s on the birth cert, can not be removed.

And ?

splinter65

Steviesol wrote: »

And ?

And it doesn’t really matter what name the child is known as. The man who is named on his birth cert will always be his father in a legal sense. I think the OP may be concerned that the mother of his child is trying to obliterate him from the picture. Guys do worry about these things and they’re right to worry. If he is Pat X and the child has been known to all as Mary X until now and is overnight to be known now as Mary Y then you have to understand that that is upsetting and concerning.

Hannibal_Smith

seamus wrote: »

I think for the most part women being stopped at airports or questioned by schools about different surnames, is a bit of an urban myth. Or something which used to happen when Ireland was more puritanical. I've heard plenty of people "worried" about it, but never once heard of it actually happening.

Not a myth at all. My sister in law has different surnames to the children and she got stopped. She was told she should carry certified copies of their birth certs if travelling with them alone in future. Saw and heard it with my own eyes.

lonestargirl

seamus wrote: »

I've heard plenty of claims about a different surname being an issue, but my wife has a different surname to the kids, and it's never once been a problem.

I think for the most part women being stopped at airports or questioned by schools about different surnames, is a bit of an urban myth. Or something which used to happen when Ireland was more puritanical. I've heard plenty of people "worried" about it, but never once heard of it actually happening.

My son has his dad's surname. I've never had a issue in Europe/US/Canada/Asia but I every single time we come through Dublin I have been asked to prove that I'm his mother.

Senature

The third page of the thread and I don't think anyone has mentioned how the child might feel about being suddenly told they are to call themselves a different name. One of the earliest things we learn in life is our name, it is a major part of our identity. Hence why so many women are no longer taking their husband's name when they marry.

It could be just reaction to the break up but I think mum is being quite self centred here. The child is dealing with all the changes involved in their parents relationship ending. At least let them keep their name. If mum ends up with a few bureaucratic annoyances she'll get over it. If she knows she needs to bring birth certs when travelling that is as easy as remembering a passport. Let's face it, one of the parents will have that to deal with whichever name the child is given.

Triceratops Ballet

Senature wrote:

The third page of the thread and I don't think anyone has mentioned how the child might feel about being suddenly told they are to call themselves a different name. One of the earliest things we learn in life is our name, it is a major part of our identity. Hence why so many women are no longer taking their husband's name when they marry.

Senature wrote:

It could be just reaction to the break up but I think mum is being quite self centred here. The child is dealing with all the changes involved in their parents relationship ending. At least let them keep their name. If mum ends up with a few bureaucratic annoyances she'll get over it. If she knows she needs to bring birth certs when travelling that is as easy as remembering a passport. Let's face it, one of the parents will have that to deal with whichever name the child is given.

It could actually also be the opposite, if the child lives full time with the mother, the child might wonder why they have a different name to Mammy and it might be something that upsets them, especially if their pals and classmates have the same names as their mammies.

I think a key thing for the op to understand is why the mother is looking for the change, the real reason. If they can both talk honestly about why not having the same name as the kid/not wanting the kids name to change bothers them and understand the other person's pov they might have a chance at compromise.

Senature

I don't know the OP's personal circumstances but the child is likely to end up living with both the OP and the mother. Also, the child could just as easily wonder why they have a different surname to Dad as Mum, which can be explained easily enough.

LirW

My son travels via escorted flights several times a year and names have never been an issue as long as the named person on the paperwork drops him off/picks him up.

I'm going to take my partner's name, my son would prefer to keep the old German family name, since he's an Austrian citizen I also couldn't simply change his name here legally but have to do it at the embassy and that's a painstakingly stupid process where they assess his 'right' to a variety of last name options.
I'll probably let him double barrel and he can drop the second name once 18.

All sorts of family members travelled with him before and it was never an issue within Europe. In fairness, when there's a name difference you should always have relevant paperwork with you.
Generally though, it's a lot easier when the kids have the name of the parent they live with when you're separated. It's still widely assumed that the kid is named after the mother when the parents are split in my experience.