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Murders of Abigail & Libby, 2017, Delphi, Indiana

  • 08-10-2018 4:10pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ Flippyfloppy


    The murderer is still at large in this case, despite Liberty having the wherewithall to record video and audio of their Murderer, which uploaded to the cloud.

    On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail J. "Abby" Williams and Liberty Rose Lynn "Libby" German were discovered on a hiking trail in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day.

    The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of a man believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's cell phone.

    Despite the photo and audio recording of the suspect being released to the public by police, and over 26,000 tips being sent to police, no arrests have been made in the case.

    Some people believe they are linked to the Iowa murders 2012, which probably needs its own thread.


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Comments

  • Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,717 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Boom_Bap


    any links to the photo and audio from the phone, I've never heard of this one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ Flippyfloppy


    Boom_Bap wrote: »
    any links to the photo and audio from the phone, I've never heard of this one.

    Of course, I’ll post it below. It originally caught my eye because of the place name, Delphi. They pronounce it Delph-I, like defy.

    This is an overlay of the stills of the suspect that was released to the public.
    http://www.abbyandlibby.org/suspect-overlay-video/

    This is a loop of the audio. Personally I dislike these loop audios as I think it evokes a bit of semantic saturation, in me anyway, but here you go:
    http://www.abbyandlibby.org/suspect-audio/


    It seems the suspect followed the two girls , who were on a hike on an unplanned school closure day, across a high bridge. People would typically walk across then turn around, there was just a hill down at the other end. So he really had them cornered.

    It is suggested that he was armed and forced them down the hill and through the woods. It has been rumored that the audio is much longer and perhaps recorded some very distressing events, as Libby may have left the phone recording in her pocket unbeknownst to the perpetrator.

    Soon after the last photo on the High Bridge, Libby’s father arrived to the pre agreed pick up point, and tried to contact the girls. When this was unsuccessful a search party quickly assembled. The search was called off when it got dark, and it was assumed the girls were probably either safe and lost their way or at a friends house.

    When the search resumed the next day, their bodies were sadly found. There are rumours that the area they were found had been searched the day before, but at the same time at that point they were looking for fully mobile people, when the girls were found they were partially covered in leaves on the forest floor.

    Such a senseless, and brutal loss of life.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,717 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Boom_Bap


    So it looks like they have a suspect, someone that looks a lot like the guy in the picture. I didn't hear any audio of the suspect though to hear if it matches with the 'down the hill' recording.
    He has an alibi though.


    I wonder what other evidence is being withheld on this one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ Flippyfloppy


    Boom_Bap wrote: »
    So it looks like they have a suspect, someone that looks a lot like the guy in the picture. I didn't hear any audio of the suspect though to hear if it matches with the 'down the hill' recording.
    He has an alibi though.


    I wonder what other evidence is being withheld on this one.

    Is it Daniel Nations you mean? If so, there was a big hullabaloo when he came to attention. He was suspected of killing a cyclist in Colorado, and was allegedly in the Delphi area living under bridges at the time of the murders.

    His partner had posted on Facebook on the day of the murders that she was at a pregnancy scan without the father. He has a history of lewd sex offending, having done horrendous things. His (ex)partner publicly condemned him. People online did voice comparisons and visual comparisons, and all seemed to match up.

    A team travelled to Colorado to question him and returned the next day. For whatever reason he doesn’t seem to be their man. But a lot of people think they have got their man, so people think they aren’t looking for the real perp.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭ Gimme A Pound


    Seemingly Daniel Nations checked into an Indiana police station not far from Delphi (as part of his obligations due to being a registered sex offender) the same day that the girls' bodies were found. The police have never disclosed to the public how they died... :-/

    In Colorado about six months later, a man was shot dead, as mentioned by FlippyFloppy, however the key incident that prompted the Colorado police to contact the Indiana police was Nations' arrest for threatening people with a hatchet on a hiking trail weirdly. It was in this vicinity that that man was shot dead.

    Nations has a history of violence, including intimidation of a former landlady and employer.

    Didn't look good for him but police confirmed eventually that he was no longer a person of interest. I can't help wondering whether they wanted to take the heat off him due to the trial by social media going on (particularly Reddit) and potentially compromising an actual trial (yes I know I'm doing the same).


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭ Hector Savage


    Anyone think the accent in the audio sounds Scottish ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,817 ✭✭✭ MonkieSocks


    =(:-) Me? I know who I am. I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude (-:)=



  • Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭ firefly08


    There has been a pretty significant update in this case. A week ago (Friday), the police announced that they'd be doing a press conference on Monday, saying that they're release "significant" information, and that the case was going in a "new direction". You can watch it here.

    They released some new audio, video, and to everyone's surprise, a completely new composite sketch. This is a different person - not the person in the original sketch. They're no longer looking for the guy in the original sketch. But this new sketch *is* believed to be the person in the video, and is the suspect.

    The next day, it was revealed that this "new" sketch was actually drawn a few days after the murders, but withheld until now. No one knows exactly why - presumably they thought the other one was a better lead.


  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭ monicafussy


    firefly08 wrote: »
    There has been a pretty significant update in this case. A week ago (Friday), the police announced that they'd be doing a press conference on Monday, saying that they're release "significant" information, and that the case was going in a "new direction". You can watch it here.

    They released some new audio, video, and to everyone's surprise, a completely new composite sketch. This is a different person - not the person in the original sketch. They're no longer looking for the guy in the original sketch. But this new sketch *is* believed to be the person in the video, and is the suspect.

    The next day, it was revealed that this "new" sketch was actually drawn a few days after the murders, but withheld until now. No one knows exactly why - presumably they thought the other one was a better lead.

    Apparently they know who it is,The police chief who gave the press conference was pretty angry so it looks like this case will be solved


  • Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭ firefly08


    Apparently they know who it is,The police chief who gave the press conference was pretty angry so it looks like this case will be solved


    I thought that at first too. But when I discovered when the sketch was made, I had second thoughts. I think what happened is that they ruled out the first guy for some reason - maybe they identified him and spoke to him, or maybe they came to the conclusion that the witness wasn't reliable, so they just moved on to the next lead they had.



    Why release the new sketch if they know who it is? Maybe in the hopes that some previously unknown witness can independently place him near the scene? It would carry more weight in court if it came from a sketch before the witness was made aware of the real identity. But it's unlikely that there are any witnesses who haven't come forward yet. And even then, why release the new audio and video? I think it's more likely that they're really hoping someone will recognize him, maybe someone who ruled this person out in their own mind until now, because of the first sketch. Which suggests they don't know who it is.



    I think in time, when everything comes out, the first sketch will come to be seen as a huge blunder by the police. The reason is, the sketch looks similar to the guy in the 2 or 3 video frames they originally released. So everyone thought that must be the guy. The police even said it. But the new video suggests a younger man, wearing a hood (probably a hoodie) as opposed to an "old-man" hat as previously suggested. The police have had that video all along so they should have known this.


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  • Site Banned Posts: 17 Bumper Mannix


    Is the guy in the video wearing a hat? I can't quite figure out if that's his hair or not.


  • Site Banned Posts: 17 Bumper Mannix


    Anyone think the accent in the audio sounds Scottish ?

    Can't say I do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭ firefly08


    Is the guy in the video wearing a hat? I can't quite figure out if that's his hair or not.


    No he's wearing a hood, like a hoodie. On the side facing the sun (his right), it's hard to make out the outline because it tends to blend into the background. But if you watch it carefully frame by frame you can make it out. You can also see the opening or rim of the hood going across his forehead and all the way down behind his shoulder on his right in some frames.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,209 ✭✭✭✭ Mantis Toboggan


    Any good documentaries or podcasts on this case?


    IRISHMEN AND IRISHWOMEN: "In the name of God and of the dead generations from which she receives her old tradition of nationhood, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her flag and strikes for her freedom"

    Irish Proclamation



  • Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭ firefly08


    Any good documentaries or podcasts on this case?


    I haven't heard of any. Very little is known beyond what's been posted in this thread. There's no publicly known suspect, certainly no friend of family member is publicly considered a suspect or anything (I'm guessing that's probably ruled out due to the audio recording the police have). So not much to make a story out of really.



    I'd suggest the youtube channel of a guy called Gray Hughes. Not quite a podcast exactly, but he does seem to have the most down to earth info on the case, and he's on good terms with the family of one of the victims, and has interviewed them.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,663 Mod ✭✭✭✭ pc7


    I’m sure I’ve heard a podcast on this one, I’ll see if I can find it. So bloody sad.


  • Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭ voldejoie


    Any good documentaries or podcasts on this case?

    The Murder Squad have a good episode on it and another case they discuss as being potentially similar (although unconnected): http://themurdersquad.com/episodes/the-delphi-and-evansdale-murders/

    They speculate that law enforcement have a lot more audio than has been released and that the reason for this is twofold: to play their cards close to their chest as a strategy in the first instance, but also because some of the audio might contain the voices of one of the girls or even the beginning of the attack itself. Terribly sad case, it's just horrifying to think of how terrified they must have been. :(


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,663 Mod ✭✭✭✭ pc7




  • Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭ voldejoie


    Casefile have a new episode on this case, haven't had a chance to listen to it yet but looking forward to it given the quality of Casefile in general!

    Also I've seen some scepticism online about Paul Etter being connected to the case, but it will be interesting to see how it pans out! https://people.com/crime/man-who-killed-himself-possible-suspect-delphi-murders/


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,663 Mod ✭✭✭✭ pc7


    True Crime Garage did it this week too, seems the families were at crime con


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  • Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭ firefly08


    voldejoie wrote: »
    Casefile have a new episode on this case, haven't had a chance to listen to it yet but looking forward to it given the quality of Casefile in general!

    Also I've seen some scepticism online about Paul Etter being connected to the case, but it will be interesting to see how it pans out! https://people.com/crime/man-who-killed-himself-possible-suspect-delphi-murders/


    It's pretty weird that he just happened to have a set of handcuffs.



    Gray Hughes has a video where he shows alleged excerpts of a FB conversation between Etter and someone working for the police (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSyL4IttBCI&t=2710s)


    They talk about Delphi a couple of times.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,209 ✭✭✭✭ Mantis Toboggan


    Any reason why the police haven't confirmed how they died?

    Also was there any dna evidence gathered?


    IRISHMEN AND IRISHWOMEN: "In the name of God and of the dead generations from which she receives her old tradition of nationhood, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her flag and strikes for her freedom"

    Irish Proclamation



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,817 ✭✭✭ MonkieSocks


    Apparently they have DNA evidence, but no match on their databases.

    This surprises me as I don't think it was his first crime.

    If they do actually have DNA evidence they could search mitochondrial dna in their databases to find someone who is a relative of the killer.

    or search https://www.myheritage.com, it's been done before


    =(:-) Me? I know who I am. I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude (-:)=



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,817 ✭✭✭ MonkieSocks




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,817 ✭✭✭ MonkieSocks


    =(:-) Me? I know who I am. I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude (-:)=



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 542 ✭✭✭ Bill Ponderosa


    Over 4 years now, looks unlikely to be solved at this stage. I've a feeling the police no who did it but don't have the evidence. I'd say its someone local. Police really need to start releasing more information on the case as its going cold.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,797 ✭✭✭ el Fenomeno


    There's a good podcast series on this called Down The Hill. Produced by Warner Media, 10 episodes long. Very thorough, interviews all the family and those involved with the case. Highly recommended.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9 Gabrielle88


    There's a good podcast series on this called Down The Hill. Produced by Warner Media, 10 episodes long. Very thorough, interviews all the family and those involved with the case. Highly recommended.

    Thank you, I'm all ears! :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,424 ✭✭✭✭ Ush1


    Over 4 years now, looks unlikely to be solved at this stage. I've a feeling the police no who did it but don't have the evidence. I'd say its someone local. Police really need to start releasing more information on the case as its going cold.

    I tend to agree however police have said anything they have they don't think will be any use to the public.

    The new sketch press conference was very strange and looking at it now it seems like desperation.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,209 ✭✭✭✭ Mantis Toboggan



    IRISHMEN AND IRISHWOMEN: "In the name of God and of the dead generations from which she receives her old tradition of nationhood, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her flag and strikes for her freedom"

    Irish Proclamation



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