Nova Broadband - Contention?

BArra

Does anyone else use Nova Broadband as their fixed wireless provider and have no issues?

As per it seems most if not all fixed wireless providers, during Mon-Fri off-peak hours you get useable speeds, during peak times ie. after 6pm and weekends then things plummet where streaming becomes impossible.

Tech support says my link to nearest mast is good, but there is 'interference' causing my slowdown.

Tracerts show that my internal network is fine, either on wifi or directly connecting to the dish on roof via the POE/Ethernet into my laptop, the problems start when it hits the first Nova hop, where pings vary from 200-1000ms

My jitter on ping results are all over the place due to this, I can still get speed tests of around 8Mb, but streaming is a disaster.

If I stay up past midnight though speeds go up to 20-30Mb, and pings become reliable.

Is there any way to figure out what interference apparently causes these drops or to prove this is contention or am I wasting my time?

ED E

They're fobbing you off, its contention. If latency is getting as far as 1s then its pretty bad too.

Very few WISPs will settle for selling to capacity and making a few euro when they can sell 3x capacity and make much much more. Part of that can be blamed on Irish costs of business but part is greed as others seem to manage fine.

BArra

just ran a trace route to www.google.ie..

4 b-ras-pppoe.edge.novanetworks.ie (91.142.96.1) 294.571 ms 388.932 ms 662.185 ms
5 xe-9.rtr01-cgt.gemini.core.novanetworks.ie (91.142.111.41) 594.521 ms 287.669 ms 270.394 ms
6 xe-2.rtr01-nsc.gemini.core.novanetworks.ie (91.142.110.233) 227.738 ms 318.140 ms 235.124 ms
7 vl702.rtr07.cix.core.novanetworks.ie (91.142.111.197) 465.665 ms 106.606 ms 56.141 ms
8 10ge-08.rtr01.cix.border.novanetworks.ie (91.142.110.65) 22.113 ms 12.891 ms 25.403 ms
9 10ge-07.rtr02.cix.border.novanetworks.ie (91.142.111.170) 25.149 ms 14.139 ms 22.524 ms
10 vl3001.rtr02.cwt.border.novanetworks.ie (91.142.111.38) 75.786 ms 200.958 ms 67.630 ms
11 10ge-02.rtr01.cwt.border.novanetworks.ie (91.142.111.173) 23.620 ms 25.496 ms 98.922 ms
12 inex.google.com (185.6.36.57) 44.739 ms 37.359 ms 381.823 ms
13 74.125.243.241 (74.125.243.241) 277.752 ms 208.170 ms 229.802 ms
14 209.85.244.241 (209.85.244.241) 302.691 ms 324.612 ms 240.956 ms
15 arn06s07-in-f99.1e100.net (216.58.209.99) 26.927 ms 23.505 ms 18.959 ms

ussjtrunks

did one to rte.ie there and mine seems fine atm, with nova too, its all just luck really on what mast you are on

4 23 ms 23 ms 19 ms 91.142.110.161
5 30 ms 32 ms 28 ms vl4008.rtr07.cix.core.novanetworks.ie [91.142.110.81]
6 31 ms 44 ms 25 ms 10ge-08.rtr01.cix.border.novanetworks.ie [91.142.110.65]
7 35 ms 22 ms 23 ms xe-0-0-2-302.bdr02.core.cix.ie [91.103.0.69]
8 28 ms 31 ms 52 ms 91.103.0.203
9 32 ms 27 ms 37 ms inex1.as13335.net [185.6.36.76]
10 26 ms 31 ms 29 ms 104.18.162.29

9726_9726

BArra wrote: »

just ran a trace route to www.google.ie..

4 b-ras-pppoe.edge.novanetworks.ie (91.142.96.1) 294.571 ms 388.932 ms 662.185 ms
5 xe-9.rtr01-cgt.gemini.core.novanetworks.ie (91.142.111.41) 594.521 ms 287.669 ms 270.394 ms
6 xe-2.rtr01-nsc.gemini.core.novanetworks.ie (91.142.110.233) 227.738 ms 318.140 ms 235.124 ms
7 vl702.rtr07.cix.core.novanetworks.ie (91.142.111.197) 465.665 ms 106.606 ms 56.141 ms
8 10ge-08.rtr01.cix.border.novanetworks.ie (91.142.110.65) 22.113 ms 12.891 ms 25.403 ms
9 10ge-07.rtr02.cix.border.novanetworks.ie (91.142.111.170) 25.149 ms 14.139 ms 22.524 ms
10 vl3001.rtr02.cwt.border.novanetworks.ie (91.142.111.38) 75.786 ms 200.958 ms 67.630 ms
11 10ge-02.rtr01.cwt.border.novanetworks.ie (91.142.111.173) 23.620 ms 25.496 ms 98.922 ms
12 inex.google.com (185.6.36.57) 44.739 ms 37.359 ms 381.823 ms
13 74.125.243.241 (74.125.243.241) 277.752 ms 208.170 ms 229.802 ms
14 209.85.244.241 (209.85.244.241) 302.691 ms 324.612 ms 240.956 ms
15 arn06s07-in-f99.1e100.net (216.58.209.99) 26.927 ms 23.505 ms 18.959 ms

Your first hop is crap. This would be between your antenna and the base station. If it is a 5GHz AP, then it could be that there is night time activity on an interfering source, like another WISP or something.

Can they move you to another AP? Or change the frequency?

BArra

was advised I'm connecting to best quality connection and nearest mast

and the consecutive hops within novas network aren't good either from that traceroute, so surely it rules out your theory of interference

4 b-ras-pppoe.edge.novanetworks.ie (91.142.96.1) 294.571 ms 388.932 ms 662.185 ms
5 xe-9.rtr01-cgt.gemini.core.novanetworks.ie (91.142.111.41) 594.521 ms 287.669 ms 270.394 ms
6 xe-2.rtr01-nsc.gemini.core.novanetworks.ie (91.142.110.233) 227.738 ms 318.140 ms 235.124 ms
7 vl702.rtr07.cix.core.novanetworks.ie (91.142.111.197) 465.665 ms 106.606 ms 56.141 ms

BArra

ping/jitter has now come down since 11pm, no more spikes and the internet is useable

if I give it another hour or two I will likely get 20/30Mb+ download

tsue921i8wljb3

BArra wrote: »

was advised I'm connecting to best quality connection and nearest mast

and the consecutive hops within novas network aren't good either from that traceroute, so surely it rules out your theory of interference

4 b-ras-pppoe.edge.novanetworks.ie (91.142.96.1) 294.571 ms 388.932 ms 662.185 ms
5 xe-9.rtr01-cgt.gemini.core.novanetworks.ie (91.142.111.41) 594.521 ms 287.669 ms 270.394 ms
6 xe-2.rtr01-nsc.gemini.core.novanetworks.ie (91.142.110.233) 227.738 ms 318.140 ms 235.124 ms
7 vl702.rtr07.cix.core.novanetworks.ie (91.142.111.197) 465.665 ms 106.606 ms 56.141 ms

Tracroutes are not the best method of identifying issues as intermediate hops may drop or give lower priority to ICMP.

Try something like

ping -n 600 heanet.ie

to see if you're getting packet loss.

For more in depth analysis you could set up a quality monitor to capture data over a longer period.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality

9726_9726

BArra wrote: »

was advised I'm connecting to best quality connection and nearest mast

and the consecutive hops within novas network aren't good either from that traceroute, so surely it rules out your theory of interference

4 b-ras-pppoe.edge.novanetworks.ie (91.142.96.1) 294.571 ms 388.932 ms 662.185 ms
5 xe-9.rtr01-cgt.gemini.core.novanetworks.ie (91.142.111.41) 594.521 ms 287.669 ms 270.394 ms
6 xe-2.rtr01-nsc.gemini.core.novanetworks.ie (91.142.110.233) 227.738 ms 318.140 ms 235.124 ms
7 vl702.rtr07.cix.core.novanetworks.ie (91.142.111.197) 465.665 ms 106.606 ms 56.141 ms

No, latency on the first hop will show up on all subsequent hops in a cumulative way.

BArra

what does ping -n do? I am using Mac OS so unsure how I can do that, net utility just gives me an option to ping an address without adding parameters

tsue921i8wljb3

BArra wrote: »

what does ping -n do? I am using Mac OS so unsure how I can do that, net utility just gives me an option to ping an address without adding parameters

-n 600 would send 600 pings so it would run for 10 minutes.

Johnboy1951

Tiana Drab Gloom wrote: »

-n 600 would send 600 pings so it would run for 10 minutes.

That would be

ping -c 600 <URL>

for me on Linux.

-c => count

m99T

Try pinging the broadcast IP and see how many devices reply. That can give you an idea of contention if its set to reply.

It will be .255 of your first hop IP.

EG If my CPE Antenna is 172.20.169.24 and the AP is 172.20.169.1 then running ping 172.20.169.255 may return you a list of active clients as it will effectively ping all clients.

That might prove it's contention.

BArra

No dice on that I am afraid

Their support responded again to say they monitored my CPE which provides consistent pings from 7ms(min) to 35ms(max) over an extended period of time, they won't entertain my trace routes as it isn't an accurate way to pinpoint a problem.

I am on a residential package and thus speeds are not guaranteed, speed is determined by link quality and signal

So as I understand it, my CPE and their AP have no issues with pinging me or latency at any time, however when I am trying to stream something or download after 7PM I am seeing increased overall latency and poor sub 6Mb speeds.

They are advising no contention on my AP is occurring but they do perform traffic management at busy times :P

The usual blurbs about wifi is not an accurate way to test; I may have viruses; anti-virus scans running; interference occurring in the evening time; and if I need a more consistent internet package I would need to look at getting a business package

So from the above I understand my CPE and AP have no issues with latency or interference, as the RRDTool graphs I have seen show minimal loss, its what's happening after that in real world scenario of me trying to stream or download at a certain time where I see my ping/jitter all over the place and speeds below 6Mb, making streaming infuriating

Oh well, I knew it would be a slim to no chance of going anywhere with this if I am honest with myself

m99T

BArra wrote: »

No dice on that I am afraid

Their support responded again to say they monitored my CPE which provides consistent pings from 7ms(min) to 35ms(max) over an extended period of time, they won't entertain my trace routes as it isn't an accurate way to pinpoint a problem.

I am on a residential package and thus speeds are not guaranteed, speed is determined by link quality and signal

So as I understand it, my CPE and their AP have no issues with pinging me or latency at any time, however when I am trying to stream something or download after 7PM I am seeing increased overall latency and poor sub 6Mb speeds.

They are advising no contention on my AP is occurring but they do perform traffic management at busy times :P

The usual blurbs about wifi is not an accurate way to test; I may have viruses; anti-virus scans running; interference occurring in the evening time; and if I need a more consistent internet package I would need to look at getting a business package

So from the above I understand my CPE and AP have no issues with latency or interference, as the RRDTool graphs I have seen show minimal loss, its what's happening after that in real world scenario of me trying to stream or download at a certain time where I see my ping/jitter all over the place and speeds below 6Mb, making streaming infuriating

Oh well, I knew it would be a slim to no chance of going anywhere with this if I am honest with myself

That really does suck. I am usually suspicious when speeds drop on WiSP's. Could be mast overloading, could be a new AP. The only real way is to find out all the details you can about their setup.

Possibly the network has changed in the middle somewhere. Do you know anyone else on the same mast?

BArra

all I know is that I am in control of my internal network and will know if I have an internal issue causing a problem, I catagorically don't.

Everything is fine and dandy if you use the internet when the sun is up; after that its luck of the draw. To which, them showing me graphs showing max 35ms to their AP means the link is good, something else is causing the slow down past that

tsue921i8wljb3

BArra wrote: »

all I know is that I am in control of my internal network and will know if I have an internal issue causing a problem, I catagorically don't.

Everything is fine and dandy if you use the internet when the sun is up; after that its luck of the draw. To which, them showing me graphs showing max 35ms to their AP means the link is good, something else is causing the slow down past that

Did you check for packet loss at peak times as I suggested earlier?

BArra

Will likely report back tomorrow evening with your suggestion, thanks navi

tsue921i8wljb3

BArra wrote: »

Will likely report back tomorrow evening with your suggestion, thanks navi

https://blog.teamtreehouse.com/introduction-to-the-mac-os-x-command-line

You should be able to use the ping command I suggested from the command line. It may need the "c" option as Johnboy posted. Also try to test when your machine is cabled to the router. Testing over WiFi is just adding more uncertainty.

BArra

So here is the result for 600 pings to heanet.ie, only 1% packet loss.

- tested directly connected to the CPE; no router connected

Current DL/UL speeds:
Time: 7.37PM
DL: 3.5Mbps
UL: 1.4Mbps

Time: 7.40PM
DL: 1.7Mbps
UL: 0.8Mbps

Earlier Today:
Time: Before 6PM
DL avg: 25Mbps
UL avg: 9Mbps

--- iconia.heanet.ie ping statistics ---
600 packets transmitted, 594 packets received, 1.0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 10.447/47.651/343.639/46.055 ms

So to deduce from the above, 1% packet loss is fine, the pings are okay, which would mean my link from CPE to Nova AP is fine, but from after that it goes to ****?

Also tested downloading a linux ISO from heanet.ie, which is maxing out at about 1.4Mbps to 3Mbps

ED E

350ms max is high but your average is alright.


If you have a public IP and respond to pings setup a BQM. It'll make pretty graphs of the congestion.
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality

tsue921i8wljb3

BArra wrote: »

So here is the result for 600 pings to heanet.ie, only 1% packet loss.

- tested directly connected to the CPE; no router connected

Current DL/UL speeds:
Time: 7.37PM
DL: 3.5Mbps
UL: 1.4Mbps

Time: 7.40PM
DL: 1.7Mbps
UL: 0.8Mbps

Earlier Today:
Time: Before 6PM
DL avg: 25Mbps
UL avg: 9Mbps

--- iconia.heanet.ie ping statistics ---
600 packets transmitted, 594 packets received, 1.0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 10.447/47.651/343.639/46.055 ms

So to deduce from the above, 1% packet loss is fine, the pings are okay, which would mean my link from CPE to Nova AP is fine, but from after that it goes to ****?

Also tested downloading a linux ISO from heanet.ie, which is maxing out at about 1.4Mbps to 3Mbps

1% packet loss is not fine. Ideally you should have no loss. I think you know yourself that they are unlikely to fix it. They'll keep fobbing you off until you get fed up or leave.

BArra

Unable to setup the quality monitor, router seems to be blocking ICMP requests and there is nowhere in the router admin page to change it. Maybe I need to create a rule but I'm not sure its worth it, I am confident my latency to the AP is good enough.

sorry navi I didn't mean overall that 1% loss is hunky dory, what I meant was my overall average pings are stable enough, and im not dropping packets all over the place to cause my slowdown in throughput.

their just isn't the backhaul available to utilize, or should I say 'traffic managment'

BArra

as the thread is coming to a successful end or perhaps failure for me, I am surprised nobody else on here as a customer of Nova Broadband has chimed in about any similar woes

if anyone does jump it, if you wouldn't mind giving me your Speedtest results, ideally from between 7pm-10pm

I am a customer on their Supernova package which provides 'up-to 50Mb download and 10Mb upload'

heavydawson

BArra wrote: »

as the thread is coming to a successful end or perhaps failure for me, I am surprised nobody else on here as a customer of Nova Broadband has chimed in about any similar woes

if anyone does jump it, if you wouldn't mind giving me your Speedtest results, ideally from between 7pm-10pm

I am a customer on their Supernova package which provides 'up-to 50Mb download and 10Mb upload'

I'm on Nova as well. I've had very similar issues to the ones your describing sporadically. My biggest issue is less with the congestion and more with the uplink/downlink internal contention. I use video-conferencing with the US West Coast a lot, and I end up turning off my own video stream to reliably receive video down. I actually switched to Novas business MyWave offering (20D/3U).

I've ran traceroute and seen the issues you describe where the Wireless link itself is minimally impacting, and it's some hardware within Novas core that the latency starts. Under normal circumstances, I see ~16->20ms latency to most Irish major websites, which I consider pretty damn good.

However, in the evening the packet loss goes bananas. Bearing in mind I'm on a business package, if anything in the evening my packet loss should be _decreasing_ as most business' will be dropping off.

Also WRT SpeedTest, I've seen _VERY_ suspicious results with Nova on it. Try running a speedtest on Speedtest.net and on Fast.com immediately after and let me know how you go.
I'm highly suspicious they're prioritizing traffic to SpeedTest.net over other traffic. I also get excellent results on SpeedTest, while Fast.com results are 2-3x slower

BArra

What sort of % packet loss are you getting and is there a general timeframe where it goes downhill?

Assume you are paying 200e a month for a 20/3 business package?

Nova advised me with graphs that I had 9.3% packet loss over a 30 hour monitoring period, my own testing over 600 pings to heanet.ie during the evening around 8pm when my speeds drop to 3Mb-ish gave a 1% loss figure

- Can you give Speedtest results from between 7pm/10pm to compare by any chance?

- My general situation is:

01:00-19:00 -> speeds between 15-30Mb
19:00-00:00 -> speeds under 5Mb (stable latency from CPE to AP, but increased latency on further nova hops)

--

- Ran a test just now on Fast.com and Speedtest, results favour Speedtest quite significantly

Fast.com (Dublin server)
DL: 6.2Mbps
UL: 4.8Mbps

Speedtest (Digiweb Dublin server)
DL: 22.4Mbps
UL: 7.52Mbps

tsue921i8wljb3

I don't think fast.com is particularly reliable. I get about 50% of my actual speed testing to it. It also does not seem to work correctly with Firefox.

amber2

Had same issue, virtually no service after 6/7pm ish, harassed them since August & got nowhere. They wanted me to sign up for 12 month contract to a service that isn’t fit for purpose, I’ve have been with them for years. Just seems to have too many customers now, but we are out in the countryside and there isn’t an alternative unless we go back to Eir’s abismal Service.

BArra

what speed package are you on and which mast are you connected to?

if you wouldn't mind giving Speedtest results in the evening it would be much appreciated

(I'm connected to Rochestown on supernova 50Mb/10Mb, but real world up to 30Mb before 7pm)

amber2

We were on the 20mb package and when I complained they switched us to the 50mb package on a 12 month contract, located in North Cork.

BArra

oh dear

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/d/68849739