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PV array on Loghouse?

  • 06-10-2018 3:12pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭ jusmeig


    Hi there,

    I'm planning on getting one of these -> https://www.loghouse.ie/product/wicklow-log-cabin-6m-x-4m

    I've spoken to the guys who make them and they have told me that I can mount PV panels on the roof. Couple of questions I am unsure about tho:

    Planning Permission!?: I already have 1.85kw of PV on house (one half my roof space is covered). This is a shed however, so i'm not sure if you fall into Conditional Planning Exemptions -> https://www.seai.ie/resources/publications/Conditional_Planning_Exemptions.pdf
    Nothing about sheds in this?!

    Pitch of the roof, I've read 53 degrees is ideal for Ireland?
    Would appreciate any help or advice!

    Thanks


«1

Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    The exemption allows for 12Sq. M or 50% of the roof within the curtilidge so my guess would be that they are not exempt. Lodge a section 5 application for clarification.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,364 ✭✭✭ rolion


    Do you really think that someone will complain that you have fully covered your loghouse roof with PV panels !?

    I'll go full roof...make sure it does a good return on the install, coverage, shading and length of cabling.
    I'll make a metal frame so that I can adjust angle for summer vs winter to get maximum return.

    Good luck...


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 59,729 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    jusmeig wrote: »
    I'm planning on getting one of these -> https://www.loghouse.ie/product/wicklow-log-cabin-6m-x-4m

    Very interested in this. Also that model and size (planning exempt). And I would also plan to fit solar PV to it.

    How far are you in the process? What extras are you going for if any? Any insulation? Are you getting a steel roof for easier (and cheaper) PV installation?

    Is there any negotiating on those advertised prices? On the foundation and install prices?

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I wouldn't stop at the roof. Solar veranda would be nice too if it doesn't compete with internal habitation light gains.

    There's a rare breed of glass on glass panels you can get for semi-translucent roofing.

    solvana-solvana-solar-verandas.jpg


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 59,729 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    rolion wrote: »
    I'll go full roof...

    It's 6 * 4m, and the roof looks like it has quite a bit of overhang on both sides, so should fit 2 rows of 6 panels, for 3.6-4kwp in total :D

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



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  • Registered Users Posts: 696 ✭✭✭ Hoagy


    unkel wrote: »
    What extras are you going for if any? Any insulation? Are you getting a steel roof for easier (and cheaper) PV installation?

    Steel roof is a must IMO.

    I would also definitely recommend wall insulation. I have a 4mx4m home office with 45mm thickness walls and it bakes in summer and freezes in winter.

    I doubled the roof insulation thickness but it made no noticeable difference, if I was doing it again I would go for 70mm walls.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 59,729 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Not cheap though. The cabin is a bit over €5k with floor insulation, but with installation, foor and wall insulation and a steel roof it's touching on €10k

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭ jusmeig


    unkel wrote: »
    Very interested in this. Also that model and size (planning exempt). And I would also plan to fit solar PV to it.

    How far are you in the process? What extras are you going for if any? Any insulation? Are you getting a steel roof for easier (and cheaper) PV installation?

    Is there any negotiating on those advertised prices? On the foundation and install prices?

    Im dead in the water. So the pitch on this roof is only 7.5 degrees, which is no use. They would need to raise the highest height to 4.4 meters to get a 30 degree pitch, at a cost of 2k :(
    This price is prohibitive.

    So i've asked the solar installer can the desired pitch be got by mounting on this roof, but using the mounting system to get the desired pitch...

    U can expect to be paying 10k for a fully insulated Wicklow loghouse. I was going to go with the steel roof yes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭ jusmeig


    PV company said that the difference in the pitch will only amount to a decrease of 10% in overall efficiency. So the cost to achieve the ideal pitch is not really worth it. He recommends installing them on the 7.5 degree pitch, as you would be a VERY long time marking back the 2k cost.

    Good point about wall insulation, but that is really pricey, comes in at 1300 extra for insulation and TG cladding on inside, does not list thickness but id say 100mm


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 59,729 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Yeah I thought the wall insulation was pricey too. And yes your installer is right. PV panels are so cheap and it doesn't matter all that much what way they are facing and at what angle. Even flat and even north facing! Just stick 12 panels on that roof :D

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭ jusmeig


    unkel wrote: »
    Just stick 12 panels on that roof :D

    Going to put 10, 12 would not allow for a 500mm gap to the edges...thus enraging the Irish planning gods.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 59,729 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    I guess if you are putting up more than 7 panels, you need planning permission anyway, so if you are going for that, you might as will keep to the regulations :)

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭ jusmeig


    unkel wrote: »
    I guess if you are putting up more than 7 panels, you need planning permission anyway, so if you are going for that, you might as will keep to the regulations :)

    I know my neighbors well, and find it highly unlikely they will object.
    Also I cannot see the council blocking a renewable project, but I wait to be amazed on that point!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,820 ✭✭✭ air


    The bigger issue with low pitch is that once you go under about 15 degrees you need to clean the panels, rain won't do the job effectively.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭ jusmeig


    air wrote: »
    The bigger issue with low pitch is that once you go under about 15 degrees you need to clean the panels, rain won't do the job effectively.

    Good point, Is there anything to that other than a ladder and a rag? IE some special care?
    The labour of doing it would not brother me.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 59,729 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    pressure washer + 10 seconds per panel should do it. I would put the pressure washer on as low pressure as possible though, just in case. Probably no need for using any detergent in most cases

    IMG_0007-e1449115667839.jpg

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    jusmeig wrote: »
    Going to put 10, 12 would not allow for a 500mm gap to the edges...thus enraging the Irish planning gods.
    jusmeig wrote: »
    I know my neighbors well, and find it highly unlikely they will object.
    Also I cannot see the council blocking a renewable project, but I wait to be amazed on that point!

    10 panels will still exceed the exemption limits, so what's the point adhering to the 500mm edge rule?
    If your going to be in breach of Planning exemptions, then you may as well go all out and add the extra 2 panels.

    The Council will not block the project, but if they get a complaint then they will legally have to act on it, forcing you to either remove the panels to below the exempted limit, or get you to apply for a planning to retain the panels as constructed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭ SemperFidelis


    Can you get around planning issues by making the roof out of solar panels.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    Can you get around planning issues by making the roof out of solar panels.

    No


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭ jusmeig


    My "Plan" is to get the Shed installed, no planning permission.
    Then I can apply to have the panels installed on the roof. The planning is for the panels...not the shed, they shed is shed, im not living in it.

    Am I right in this ^^^ ??


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    jusmeig wrote: »
    My "Plan" is to get the Shed installed, no planning permission.
    Then I can apply to have the panels installed on the roof. The planning is for the panels...not the shed, they shed is shed, im not living in it.

    Am I right in this ^^^ ??

    Shed can be exempt up to 25 Sq. M in internal floor area, max height of 3m with flat roof or 4m with a pitched roof. You must then have 25 Sq. M of rear garden space remaining.

    You can then of course apply for planning for a bigger Solar PV array. You will most likely get granted planning, but the application process is a formality.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭ jusmeig


    kceire wrote: »
    Shed can be exempt up to 25 Sq. M in internal floor area, max height of 3m with flat roof or 4m with a pitched roof. You must then have 25 Sq. M of rear garden space remaining.

    You can then of course apply for planning for a bigger Solar PV array. You will most likely get granted planning, but the application process is a formality.

    I can confirm it will be pitched and will be 1m short of 25sq!
    Will def have 25+ sq left!
    Thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,820 ✭✭✭ air


    Yes that sounds correct.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    kceire wrote: »
    10 panels will still exceed the exemption limits, so what's the point adhering to the 500mm edge rule?


    To mitigate turbulent wind loading and making your gutters redundant.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭ jusmeig


    Ive attached a render of the cabin for anyone interested.
    I cannot do the PV and cabin in the same job due to cost, but the plan is to add cabling for PV during install of cabin, the panels will go on in 2019....budget/planning permitting...


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 59,729 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Make sure you get the roof hooks and rails installed. Will set you back a couple hundred in materials plus labour

    Once you have the budget to buy the panels, you and a buddy can fit the 10 panels easily in under an hour with the hooks and rails already in place

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭ Subcomandante Marcos


    To increase the pitch of the panels could you not fabricate a cheap cradle for them that lifts the back end to augment the natural pitch of the roof?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,820 ✭✭✭ air


    Not sure how easy it will be to mount rails to that type of roof given the low pitch.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 59,729 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Why? Pitch makes no difference. Hooks will go into rafters and rails connect to hooks.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



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  • Registered Users Posts: 422 ✭✭ phester28


    @unkel google says pitch changes per season to get the most out of the panels. I would imagine that cloud acts as a diffuser but if we do get some direct sun would it not be more correct to have the panels at the optimum angle.


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