Feeling useless

Bobtheman

I have been teaching about ten years in a deis school.
Im not a great man to prepare . Im just too tired in evenings. I have kids.
I tend to do it during the day.
I find our school doesn't have a great policy on homework. What i get is largely poorly done. Today half a class had no books.
Disillusioned

byhookorbycrook

This needs to be addressed on a whole school basis. Doing prep during the day doesn't really work, on the whole, particularly with younger children. And not being harsh, but other teachers who don't have children are also busy and tired.

Bobtheman

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

This needs to be addressed on a whole school basis. Doing prep during the day doesn't really work, on the whole, particularly with younger children. And not being harsh, but other teachers who don't have children are also busy and tired.

I prep during free classes or when the kids are doing work. I dont see a lot of people in our school walk home with books or copies. Not saying thats right but it is what it is. Not much here in the way of inspiration!

Wanderer78

byhookorbycrook wrote:

This needs to be addressed on a whole school basis. Doing prep during the day doesn't really work, on the whole, particularly with younger children. And not being harsh, but other teachers who don't have children are also busy and tired.

I'm on ops side here, out of work hours are simply that, it's your time, your only truly paid for your working hours, if you cannot get your work done during working hours, so be it. If the educational system isn't prepared to change this, consider moving on, how you spend your free time is your business. Best of luck op

Sinus pain

Bobtheman wrote: »

I have been teaching about ten years in a deis school.
Im not a great man to prepare . Im just too tired in evenings. I have kids.
I tend to do it during the day.
I find our school doesn't have a great policy on homework. What i get is largely poorly done. Today half a class had no books.
Disillusioned

And the kids are probably feeding off that that’s why they don’t bother bringing the books. I know some of my kids have had very poor teachers and if affects their exam results. Do you feel you are doing your best to help get the best out of your students? Being in a deis school they are already disadvantaged and having a poor disillusioned teacher is really unfair. I think honestly and I don’t want this to come across as being mean but I think you need to shape up or ship out - it’s unfair on you and it’s unfair on the children.

Bobtheman

Sinus pain wrote: »

And the kids are probably feeding off that that’s why they don’t bother bringing the books. I know some of my kids have had very poor teachers and if affects their exam results. Do you feel you are doing your best to help get the best out of your students? Being in a deis school they are already disadvantaged and having a poor disillusioned teacher is really unfair. I think honestly and I don’t want this to come across as being mean but I think you need to shape up or ship out - it’s unfair on you and it’s unfair on the children.

Gee thanks thats inspiring. Really. Im being sarcastic. Its wonderful you are a motivated parent. I do go through years of preparing alot and it doesn't stop bad parents not preparing their kids. It doesn't stop kids not giving a fxxxx
Not all kids in a Deis school are disadvantaged btw and those that are should quickly figure out that life owes them nothing. For many of them we are just expensive child minders until they can become electricians or plumbers.
We need to divide kids up better. More technical schools. We send more kids to college than Germany and no thats not a good thing.
Anyway i was looking for inspiration. I shall look elsewhere.

TheValeyard

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I'm on ops side here, out of work hours are simply that, it's your time, your only truly paid for your working hours, if you cannot get your work done during working hours, so be it. If the educational system isn't prepared to change this, consider moving on, how you spend your free time is your business. Best of luck op

Yeah, lots of staff have given up on out of class prep. You get no thanks for it. Just same pressure and more demands as usual.

byhookorbycrook

Re the prep. I’m primary and all of my prep. gets done at home . Yes , it’s “ my time “ but it’s also part of the job.

OP is in a place where the school management will need to take a hard look at what they must do to implement some positive change on a whole school footing .

Otherwise s/he will need to get out before it breaks him/her.

Sinus pain

Bobtheman wrote: »

Gee thanks thats inspiring. Really. Im being sarcastic. Its wonderful you are a motivated parent. I do go through years of preparing alot and it doesn't stop bad parents not preparing their kids. It doesn't stop kids not giving a fxxxx
Not all kids in a Deis school are disadvantaged btw and those that are should quickly figure out that life owes them nothing. For many of them we are just expensive child minders until they can become electricians or plumbers.
We need to divide kids up better. More technical schools. We send more kids to college than Germany and no thats not a good thing.
Anyway i was looking for inspiration. I shall look elsewhere.

What’s wrong with being an electrician or a plumber for starters? What do you want me to say- oh your effecting kids lives with your disillusionment but here’s a motivational quote? Reality is that teachers that are disillusioned effect pupils learning which in turn give them bad results - my son failed 1st year maths because his teacher is disillusioned or not motivated or couldn’t give a **** - now I have to pay for grinds to try catch him up. I very much aware that not all kids in deis schools are disadvantaged my own kids go and went to very good deis schools.

You want kids in school to figure out that life owes them nothing?? What’s that all about - life owes them a good education that the state pays for.

evolving_doors

Every teacher hits a wall at some point. The bells and whistles you started out with during a HDip are unsustainable.
Also there's a balance between spoonfeeding with reams of worksheets and simply telling them to learn it off. There were certain new areas Id spend days trying to make a topic 'fun' and overexplaining, but some still mightn't get it. Lately id try a few things, cut my losses, tell em we'd come back to it, and move on (but do come back to it).
What I'm starting to notice is that the most respected teachers that get the most out of students are the ones that really spend time on building a relationship with the students first. Finding out their hobbies, any family background in the subject etc.
Find out what subject they do turn in homework for OP. And see if you can get a sense why... ask that teacher if they teach such and such a group and how do they find them.

maynooth_rules

evolving_doors wrote: »

What I'm starting to notice is that the most respected teachers that get the most out of students are the ones that really spend time on building a relationship with the students first. Finding out their hobbies, any family background in the subject etc.

So much this. Sometimes 'prep' can be overstated. You can spend hours in the evening preping but that doesn't guarantee a good lesson. When I was in school, the two teachers I loved the most did zero prep outside of school. I know it was a different time and they would get castigated but today's inspections for their style of teaching, but I loved it.
Op you have to structure your time. Your family, and family time come first, always. In my school we have a half day on Wednesdays, and timetable wise I have an easy Friday. Those are my opportunities to prep. I try as best I can not to bring work home with me since my little boy was born. Its important to get the right work life balance.

Bobtheman

Sinus pain wrote: »

What’s wrong with being an electrician or a plumber for starters? What do you want me to say- oh your effecting kids lives with your disillusionment but here’s a motivational quote? Reality is that teachers that are disillusioned effect pupils learning which in turn give them bad results - my son failed 1st year maths because his teacher is disillusioned or not motivated or couldn’t give a **** - now I have to pay for grinds to try catch him up. I very much aware that not all kids in deis schools are disadvantaged my own kids go and went to very good deis schools.

You want kids in school to figure out that life owes them nothing?? What’s that all about - life owes them a good education that the state pays for.

Life owes them a good education but yet irish people still largely vote for parties or independents that wont provide funding to make this happen
Btw nothing wrong with a trade but why waste their time after Jc on academic stuff ???

Grueller

Bobtheman wrote: »

Life owes them a good education but yet irish people still largely vote for parties or independents that wont provide funding to make this happen
Btw nothing wrong with a trade but why waste their time after Jc on academic stuff ???

Because 16 is very very young to close any doors.

acequion

OP I don't know what you expect people to say to you and indeed sometimes you can get eaten alive here on boards when you confess to being less than holier than thou.

Now while I'm your side and completely get what you're saying about wanting to keep your evenings free for your family,your number one priority,the reality is that in many,if not most subjects, a lot of prep is required to teach and manage a class effectively. I teach English and it requires tons of prep as the course is constantly changing, at JC level now as well. And though I resent how much time it takes,I have no choice but to do it. No way could I get it done during the week at school and I tend to put in 7 or 8 hours on a Sunday in order to free up my week evenings.

However where I have cut back a lot in recent years is in taking up copies to mark and tend to correct homework in other ways now [though from the mocks onwards you have to take them up a lot].

But that's the experience in my subjects and subjects differ in lot in terms of work load. I also agree with the poster who said that forging a bond with students is primary.

There really is no easy answer to your dilemma. I guess it's trial and error as to what works best but I really do find for me personally, that I work much better and more happily when I've prepped well.

judeboy101

Grueller wrote: »

Because 16 is very very young to close any doors.

Most cultures and the vast majority of males on this planet are considered adult by 16.

Bobtheman

16 is time enough for our kids to know whether they have a work ethic for academic learning or not. Unless Principal's are willing to provide extra detentions or God appears to their parents-the path they are on is the path they are on.

emilymemily

Bobtheman wrote: »

16 is time enough for our kids to know whether they have a work ethic for academic learning or not. Unless Principal's are willing to provide extra detentions or God appears to their parents-the path they are on is the path they are on.

Entirely disagree with this, I hated school, had an awful time there and remember the principal telling me I was a bum. I was in detention every week for mitching and never did my homework, I then dropped out in 5th year. Im now a fully qualified teacher. The school system is far to rigid for some students and because of this theyre made to feel stupid, useless and as though they'll never achieve anything. Most of these students will never realise their potential and thats nothing to do with their academic learning.

dhaughton99

I done 9 month jobbridge in a deis school last year as support staff. I had very little interaction with students but today I happened to bump in 2 ex pupils who recognized me in the city. I asked them what are they doing with themselves now since they left. The quote was “hardcore drug dealing”. From the look of them and the location I met them at, I don’t think they were lying.

Bobtheman

emilymemily wrote: »

Entirely disagree with this, I hated school, had an awful time there and remember the principal telling me I was a bum. I was in detention every week for mitching and never did my homework, I then dropped out in 5th year. Im now a fully qualified teacher. The school system is far to rigid for some students and because of this theyre made to feel stupid, useless and as though they'll never achieve anything. Most of these students will never realise their potential and thats nothing to do with their academic learning.

I appreciate where you are coming from but from what you wrote you were in detention for not doing homework rather than acting the maggot? Is that correct. Id love if I had hours to deal with pupils everyday or staff did. Full time staff that could guide difficult pupils. Give them the flexibility they want. But unfortunately even in a well funded system like the UK-you dont get that. Thats life.

Kids get an incredible amount of flexibility and resources versus the 1980s when I was at school-that has to be acknowledged. It will never be enough for some students. We are not a disney movie.
Id like to talk to you in 15 years when as with most of us-you will harden with age and experience. Youll realise a metaphorical boot up the hole is what some students need .

Blaizes

Bobtheman wrote: »

I have been teaching about ten years in a deis school.
Im not a great man to prepare . Im just too tired in evenings. I have kids.
I tend to do it during the day.
I find our school doesn't have a great policy on homework. What i get is largely poorly done. Today half a class had no books.
Disillusioned

Career break perhaps? Try subbing in other schools get a feel for where you would be best suited.Schools do vary.
deis schools can be very tough, some want to learn, others have zero interest.
Think planning at the weekend is good advice, set aside some time and just get it done.

Bananaleaf

emilymemily wrote: »

Entirely disagree with this, I hated school, had an awful time there and remember the principal telling me I was a bum. I was in detention every week for mitching and never did my homework, I then dropped out in 5th year. Im now a fully qualified teacher. The school system is far to rigid for some students and because of this theyre made to feel stupid, useless and as though they'll never achieve anything. Most of these students will never realise their potential and thats nothing to do with their academic learning.

I would be very interested to know why you chose to go into teaching after having had such an awful time of it yourself.

I don't think the problem with the school system is that it is far too rigid at all. I think the problem is the opposite in fact. Parents and the media want to pass every single facet of education off as an issue for teachers to deal with. They seem to think that the education of their children is the sole responsibility of teachers. In the past month alone I have heard interviews with various representatives of political parties, radio show hosts, media personnel and parents state that animal cruelty and its effects should be taught in schools, the benefits of breastfeeding needs to be taught from school apparently too. We should be teaching them how to drive, how to cook, how to garden. About drugs, about sex, consent, alcohol. Teaching them about the dangers of meeting strangers online, about the repercussions of spending too much time on their phones. We are now teaching them wellbeing and mindfulness. We are adapting our school uniforms, common areas and toilets to accommodate LGBTQ+ students. There is more SEN provision than there has ever been.

The problem is we are stretched beyond what we are actually trained to do. There are kids in schools that struggle to get in in the mornings because they are suicidal, living in direct provision, are being abused, bullied, parents are separating, etc. When principals are dealing with all of that on a daily basis, it's understandable that the awkward student who is mitching and refusing to do homework for the sake of it would get on their nerves.

There is so much flexibility within the education system. There just won't ever be enough for some people, because there are some you will never please.

Sinus pain wrote: »

And the kids are probably feeding off that that’s why they don’t bother bringing the books. I know some of my kids have had very poor teachers and if affects their exam results. Do you feel you are doing your best to help get the best out of your students? Being in a deis school they are already disadvantaged and having a poor disillusioned teacher is really unfair. I think honestly and I don’t want this to come across as being mean but I think you need to shape up or ship out - it’s unfair on you and it’s unfair on the children.

Poor grades in students, you will find, is often more down to the poor calibre of teacher that is now entering the profession rather than teachers who are disillusioned. Disillusioned teachers care - that's why they are disillusioned. The ones you need to worry about are the ones that wander into teaching because they didn't get the points to do anything else. Because, with the conditions new teachers are facing coming into the profession, most people who can are doing something better in college.

two weeks til midterm :pac:

Sheeps101

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I'm on ops side here, out of work hours are simply that, it's your time, your only truly paid for your working hours, if you cannot get your work done during working hours, so be it. If the educational system isn't prepared to change this, consider moving on, how you spend your free time is your business.

This

RealJohn

That’s really not the case though, and never has been. If it was, all of those people who talk about teachers only working 9 to 4 and having really long holidays and as a result, teachers are massively overpaid, would be absolutely right.

If you’re a teacher who only works during the school day, you’re either very experienced and well organised, or you’re not doing your job properly, and the odds lean heavily towards the latter.

acequion

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I would be very interested to know why you chose to go into teaching after having had such an awful time of it yourself.

I don't think the problem with the school system is that it is far too rigid at all. I think the problem is the opposite in fact. Parents and the media want to pass every single facet of education off as an issue for teachers to deal with. They seem to think that the education of their children is the sole responsibility of teachers. In the past month alone I have heard interviews with various representatives of political parties, radio show hosts, media personnel and parents state that animal cruelty and its effects should be taught in schools, the benefits of breastfeeding needs to be taught from school apparently too. We should be teaching them how to drive, how to cook, how to garden. About drugs, about sex, consent, alcohol. Teaching them about the dangers of meeting strangers online, about the repercussions of spending too much time on their phones. We are now teaching them wellbeing and mindfulness. We are adapting our school uniforms, common areas and toilets to accommodate LGBTQ+ students. There is more SEN provision than there has ever been.

The problem is we are stretched beyond what we are actually trained to do. There are kids in schools that struggle to get in in the mornings because they are suicidal, living in direct provision, are being abused, bullied, parents are separating, etc. When principals are dealing with all of that on a daily basis, it's understandable that the awkward student who is mitching and refusing to do homework for the sake of it would get on their nerves.

There is so much flexibility within the education system. There just won't ever be enough for some people, because there are some you will never please.




Poor grades in students, you will find, is often more down to the poor calibre of teacher that is now entering the profession rather than teachers who are disillusioned. Disillusioned teachers care - that's why they are disillusioned. The ones you need to worry about are the ones that wander into teaching because they didn't get the points to do anything else. Because, with the conditions new teachers are facing coming into the profession, most people who can are doing something better in college.

two weeks til midterm :pac:

An absolutely excellent post which describes the current situation in teaching EXACTLY as it is.

Spot on that it's the disillusioned teacher that cares.And that needs support. And hardly needs more bashing from the high and mighty like the post immediately preceding this one.

RealJohn

Rather than making snarky comments, why not actually address what I said, if you don’t agree with it? That’s sort of the point of a discussion board, is it not?

Teaching is not and never has been a job where you turn up at nine, go home at four, and don’t have to think about work again until the following morning. You and the OP seem to be blissfully unaware of this. You must be an amazing teacher if that’s how you approach teaching and your students don’t suffer as a result.

acequion

RealJohn wrote: »

Rather than making snarky comments, why not actually address what I said, if you don’t agree with it? That’s sort of the point of a discussion board, is it not?

Teaching is not and never has been a job where you turn up at nine, go home at four, and don’t have to think about work again until the following morning. You and the OP seem to be blissfully unaware of this. You must be an amazing teacher if that’s how you approach teaching and your students don’t suffer as a result.

Presuming that by "you" you mean me?

Anyway the emboldened bit above might explain why I take issue with your tone. Because if you had read all the posts in this thread,you would discover one from me announcing that I generally put in about 7 hours on a Sunday. So I don't know what I'm supposed to be blissfully unaware of.:rolleyes: In addition, I do one week evening where I tackle corrections and lots more than one after the mocks. So I can assure you that I'm well aware that a teacher's job is not just 9-4 Mon-Fri.

What I don't like in that post is your judgemental tone towards the OP. Especially when compared to the post which I very much admired for its broadminded perspective. The OP has been honest enough to post here re his /her difficulties and I don't think taking a high and mighty attitude is in any way helpful.

Let's think "well being" shall we? The well being of the teacher as well as the student and in that context do you not see that being judgemental doesn't help?

RealJohn

acequion wrote: »

What I don't like in that post is your judgemental tone towards the OP. Especially when compared to the post which I very much admired for its broadminded perspective. The OP has been honest enough to post here re his /her difficulties and I don't think taking a high and mighty attitude is in any way helpful.

Let's think "well being" shall we? The well being of the teacher as well as the student and in that context do you not see that being judgemental doesn't help?

My tone was judgemental because it was. Teaching is not a 9-5 job and, while I have a certain degree of sympathy for the OP, I think the people who are claiming that they’re right to treat the job as a 9-5 are doing both the OP and the profession a disservice.

Lots of teachers have kids and other responsibilities outside of teaching but you also have a responsibility to your students and that usually means that either you get to work early and stay late or that work comes home with you.

If the OP had come in as a non-teacher and claimed that the teaching profession was as they’re treating it, they’d have been torn limb from limb and then banned for trolling.

As for your “well being” comment, we’re the adults, not the children. A bit of venting is fine but I draw the line at telling someone that they don’t need to do their job properly and give the rest of us a bad name in doing so.

Bobtheman

https://www.theonion.com/increasing-number-of-parents-opting-to-have-children-sc-1819571422

Bobtheman

Read the above-Parents demand school raise their kids. Its satirical but true

7 hours on a Sunday? Really?

I have two kids so no way could I do that.

Having paid to opt out of S and S- I use my free classes to prepare and get a fair amount done but I must try to do a couple of hours in the evening but it is hard after driving 20 miles home-cook dinner-chat to wife and then sit down at 9pm to prepare for tomorrow?!
I also think Teachers spoon feed kids too much and some prep can fall into that trap.
I should note I teach Non Exam Religion so my load is not as bad as others.

Different generations but nowadays you'd be divorced if you told your partner-Im off to prepare. You do everything!

acequion

Bobtheman wrote: »

Read the above-Parents demand school raise their kids. Its satirical but true

7 hours on a Sunday? Really?

I have two kids so no way could I do that.

Having paid to opt out of S and S- I use my free classes to prepare and get a fair amount done but I must try to do a couple of hours in the evening but it is hard after driving 20 miles home-cook dinner-chat to wife and then sit down at 9pm to prepare for tomorrow?!
I also think Teachers spoon feed kids too much and some prep can fall into that trap.
I should note I teach Non Exam Religion so my load is not as bad as others.

Different generations but nowadays you'd be divorced if you told your partner-Im off to prepare. You do everything!

I'm being sympathetic to you Bobtheman!

But yes I do roughly 7 hours on a Sunday in order to free up my week as much as possible as there is nothing worse than discovering that its 10 at night and stuff has to be done for certain classes next day. I quite resent having to give the job a large whack of my Sunday but it's either that or do it in the evenings.

I don't have kids but I do have a partner, who also works very hard and like all couples we just have to work it out and compromise.

You're very lucky to have a subject that takes little work. English is a killer. Granted it's a lovely subject but the course is constantly changing and you just have to stay on top of it. Needing to know the material you have to teach is hardly over preparing. I also teach French and that's a lot less work.

But contrary to you, I don't work during free classes. I use that time to do my shopping, run errands, make phone calls.

But I have had to accept that I work at least 15 extra hours per week on top of the 21.40/22 in class [plus CP and all the extras]. And that 15 easily rises to about 30 from March-May.

But during holidays, the summer ones especially,I forget that I'm a teacher.:D

acequion

RealJohn wrote: »

My tone was judgemental because it was. Teaching is not a 9-5 job and, while I have a certain degree of sympathy for the OP, I think the people who are claiming that they’re right to treat the job as a 9-5 are doing both the OP and the profession a disservice.

Lots of teachers have kids and other responsibilities outside of teaching but you also have a responsibility to your students and that usually means that either you get to work early and stay late or that work comes home with you.

If the OP had come in as a non-teacher and claimed that the teaching profession was as they’re treating it, they’d have been torn limb from limb and then banned for trolling.

As for your “well being” comment, we’re the adults, not the children. A bit of venting is fine but I draw the line at telling someone that they don’t need to do their job properly and give the rest of us a bad name in doing so.

Fair enough. You've explained your position and I've explained mine.I'm glad it's not me you're judging as I would find that intolerable.

I just don't get this reasoning that the actions of one member of a profession reflect on the others. As far as I'm concerned everybody is an individual and what another person does or does not do is no reflection on me. If I'm satisfied that I'm doing a good job, that's all that matters to me.

That's my motto in life.Live and let live. Nobody has the right to stand in judgement over others unless it's their job.

endacl

judeboy101 wrote: »

Most cultures and the vast majority of males on this planet are considered adult by 16.

Neuroscience is demonstrating that adolescence, in the cognitive development sense, continues for about a decade later than that though.

amacca

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I don't think the problem with the school system is that it is far too rigid at all. I think the problem is the opposite in fact. Parents and the media want to pass every single facet of education off as an issue for teachers to deal with. They seem to think that the education of their children is the sole responsibility of teachers. In the past month alone I have heard interviews with various representatives of political parties, radio show hosts, media personnel and parents state that animal cruelty and its effects should be taught in schools, the benefits of breastfeeding needs to be taught from school apparently too. We should be teaching them how to drive, how to cook, how to garden. About drugs, about sex, consent, alcohol. Teaching them about the dangers of meeting strangers online, about the repercussions of spending too much time on their phones. We are now teaching them wellbeing and mindfulness. We are adapting our school uniforms, common areas and toilets to accommodate LGBTQ+ students. There is more SEN provision than there has ever been.

The problem is we are stretched beyond what we are actually trained to do. There are kids in schools that struggle to get in in the mornings because they are suicidal, living in direct provision, are being abused, bullied, parents are separating, etc. When principals are dealing with all of that on a daily basis, it's understandable that the awkward student who is mitching and refusing to do homework for the sake of it would get on their nerves.

There is so much flexibility within the education system. There just won't ever be enough for some people, because there are some you will never please.

I'd agree with the bit in bold but I would go much further and add that I think its more than just being stretched beyond what you are trained to do.....its being stretched beyond what you are resourced to do as well.....and by resourcing I mean ...adequate prep time in the working day coming from a reduction in already quite high contact hours (and not in from an increase in BS planning and time suck meetings/well being etc etc eating into your already quite small personal time during the week where you have to do things like eat, speak to your loved ones, buy food, pay bills, rest, live like a normal human being, recharge for the onslaught of unreasonability the next day etc) ..... a room/area under your control (for some teachers), all equipment etc required for the subject, a decent pupil teacher ratio adhered to strictly no ifs/ands/buts or maybes ..... a proper disciplinary structure in place where its not up to you the teacher to impose law and order through sheer force of will alone like the sheriff of some long forgotten town in the wild west.....some basic standards of behaviour should be a prerequisite for anyone attending a secondary school and they shouldn't be attending one until they get that right...it shouldn't be up to a teacher to do this with a certain cohort of students that continue to disrupt simply because there are no real meaningful consequences for them within the system because they have all these rights they can enforce but no way the system can enforce responsibilities on them or their parents etc etc......at least not with the way the system is set up now with everyone afraid of their own shadow and worried about consequences for themselves simply by insisting on a certain basic standard of behaviour...ffs principals are afraid to really tackle some students and enforce expulsion even suspension due to fear of legal challenge and optics........I know of cases even where management/teachers etc completely in the right but know if they do anything its section 29 and they are probably back in anyway even if all the little procedure boxes are ticked given the nature of some of these people, or its fear that the publicity will affect student intake etc.....its basically the tail wagging the dog.

TBH I'd be with the OP....enough is enough...if you actually divide the wage by all the time you have to put in the hourly rate doesn't seem all that wonderful (before you go and start thinking about the changes to the pension (which for some will mean they pay in more than they get out if I'm not mistaken).....then think about the stress involved in some of those hours depending on the class thats in front of you and you alone or the sheer mind numbing frustration and yet more post-it patronising from the get promoted or die but do it positively brigade as they ask you to write don all the ways the new JC helps your students to flourish (when you know in your heart and soul the new syllabus would be more useful as toilet paper if it wasn't so abrasive)

Makes you wonder if making sandwiches in the local Centra might not be such a bad option given your weekly take home wouldnt be too far behind a lot of teaching wages for NQTs after tax/deductions now + if you'd thought of that before the opportunity cost never mind the financial cost of getting the qualification you might actually be better off now had you pursued a career in sandwich making

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Poor grades in students, you will find, is often more down to the poor calibre of teacher that is now entering the profession rather than teachers who are disillusioned. Disillusioned teachers care - that's why they are disillusioned. The ones you need to worry about are the ones that wander into teaching because they didn't get the points to do anything else. Because, with the conditions new teachers are facing coming into the profession, most people who can are doing something better in college.

There probably is something in that but in my experience really poor grades in students boiled down to many of these students putting in almost zero effort inside or outside of class. Occasionally it was a complete lack of aptitude or SEN though more often than not these students actually cared and wanted to achieve and their efforts paid off.

I think really poor grade in the next couple of years will be down to the new JC that is if the actual grades ever see the light of day.

Bananaleaf

amacca wrote: »

I'd agree with the bit in bold but I would go much further and add that I think its more than just being stretched beyond what you are trained to do.....its being stretched beyond what you are resourced to do as well.....and by resourcing I mean ...adequate prep time in the working day coming from a reduction in already quite high contact hours (and not in from an increase in BS planning and time suck meetings/well being etc etc eating into your already quite small personal time during the week where you have to do things like eat, speak to your loved ones, buy food, pay bills, rest, live like a normal human being, recharge for the onslaught of unreasonability the next day etc) ..... a room/area under your control (for some teachers), all equipment etc required for the subject, a decent pupil teacher ratio adhered to strictly no ifs/ands/buts or maybes ..... a proper disciplinary structure in place where its not up to you the teacher to impose law and order through sheer force of will alone like the sheriff of some long forgotten town in the wild west.....some basic standards of behaviour should be a prerequisite for anyone attending a secondary school and they shouldn't be attending one until they get that right...it shouldn't be up to a teacher to do this with a certain cohort of students that continue to disrupt simply because there are no real meaningful consequences for them within the system because they have all these rights they can enforce but no way the system can enforce responsibilities on them or their parents etc etc......at least not with the way the system is set up now with everyone afraid of their own shadow and worried about consequences for themselves simply by insisting on a certain basic standard of behaviour...ffs principals are afraid to really tackle some students and enforce expulsion even suspension due to fear of legal challenge and optics........I know of cases even where management/teachers etc completely in the right but know if they do anything its section 29 and they are probably back in anyway even if all the little procedure boxes are ticked given the nature of some of these people, or its fear that the publicity will affect student intake etc.....its basically the tail wagging the dog.

TBH I'd be with the OP....enough is enough...if you actually divide the wage by all the time you have to put in the hourly rate doesn't seem all that wonderful (before you go and start thinking about the changes to the pension (which for some will mean they pay in more than they get out if I'm not mistaken).....then think about the stress involved in some of those hours depending on the class thats in front of you and you alone or the sheer mind numbing frustration and yet more post-it patronising from the get promoted or die but do it positively brigade as they ask you to write don all the ways the new JC helps your students to flourish (when you know in your heart and soul the new syllabus would be more useful as toilet paper if it wasn't so abrasive)

Makes you wonder if making sandwiches in the local Centra might not be such a bad option given your weekly take home wouldnt be too far behind a lot of teaching wages for NQTs after tax/deductions now + if you'd thought of that before the opportunity cost never mind the financial cost of getting the qualification you might actually be better off now had you pursued a career in sandwich making



There probably is something in that but in my experience really poor grades in students boiled down to many of these students putting in almost zero effort inside or outside of class. Occasionally it was a complete lack of aptitude or SEN though more often than not these students actually cared and wanted to achieve and their efforts paid off.

I think really poor grade in the next couple of years will be down to the new JC that is if the actual grades ever see the light of day.

You're dead right in all you have said. Also, I feel the tone of your words as I read them - you capture the situation brilliantly and you also made me laugh twice (Centra and the Wild West) Laughs of amusement or dejection? I'm not sure yet :eek:

Bobtheman

Lot of unsubstantiated comments here. Parental back up plus teacher skills plus economic background plus leadership = student outcome. ( my theory)
You can prepare hours and hours and yet your colleague gets the same results from only doing half as much.
All theories. Some posters here speak like Moses coming down from mount Sinai .
Anyway adieu

evolving_doors