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Can a landlord share personal information.

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    #32
    goat2
    Registered Users Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭goat2


    Tiki90 wrote: »
    5 months ago I rented a property from a "Landlord" for 6 months with him stating that it would be possible to rent the property for 1 year after 6 months. The biggest mistake on my part was

    1, He did not present me with a property lease with terms and conditions. ONLY a 3 page lease stating the start and end of tenancy, his bank details and the address of the property. (However I did ask if I can get a RTB letter to prove that he registered of which he refused because he did not want to pay the fee and tenant tax).

    2, when brought a copy of the lease the first time his name was where the tenants name supposed to be and the landlord's name scratched off. And each time i asked for a proper copy the letters on pages got whiter and whiter.

    After being in the property for 3 months. I rang the landlord to discuss the possibility of a year lease. He declined stating that his father wants him to move out. Therefore he wants the apartment back. After that conversation I then decided to look for another place. Upon finding one I contacted him again and told him that if he wanted to have the place earlier. He then said that If I leave before the lease is up. I won't get my deposit back. I asked for the terms and conditions of the lease and he never gave it to me.

    I needed to leave the country for a few weeks. So I subleted the property for 2 months while I was gone to pay the rent. After I left he messaged me saying that we can come to an agreement for me to leave earlier. But at that point I wasn't there and someone else was in the property.

    A week ago he messaged me about the person I'm sublettin to and want to kick the person out of the property. And now he is does not want to return my deposit. To my understanding a landlord is not supposed to retain any deposit unless rent arrears , breach of lease, damage to property, unpaid bills and filthy property. None of that applies to me (Well I don't think so) since he did not provide terms and conditions of the lease. I did not know sublettin was prohibited because he did not say that it was.


    I have filed a mediation dispute with RTB and waiting for a response.


    I needed to leave the country for a few weeks. So I subleted the property for 2 months while I was gone to pay the rent. After I left he messaged me saying that we can come to an agreement for me to leave earlier. But at that point I wasn't there and someone else was in the property.


    He has a right to know the background of the person on his property, and I am wondering if you discussed this with him before you let someone he knew nothing about on to his property


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    #33
    Tiki90
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Tiki90


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    Are you sure it wasn't the Gardai he passed your details to?

    You brought an unauthorised person illegally into his property and profited from it. And you think you're the one aggrieved?

    I don't think I was treated unfairly. He didn't pass it on to Gardai. He told the subtenant where I work and study to go there to file a complaint against me.

    Like I said I did not have a lease that outlined the terms and conditions so I presumed it was fine to sublet while I wasn't in the country. I did not sublet to earn more money the same amount I was paying for the month was the same amount I asked the subtenant to pay.


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    #34
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Tiki90 wrote: »
    He told the subtenant where I work and study to go there to file a complaint against me.

    Sounds reasonable.
    Tiki90 wrote: »
    Like I said I did not have a lease that outlined the terms and conditions so I presumed it was fine to sublet while I wasn't in the country. I did not sublet to earn more money the same amount I was paying for the month was the same amount I asked the subtenant to pay.

    The responsibility was on you to confirm this was permitted before subletting.


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    #35
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    Tiki90 wrote: »
    I don't think I was treated unfairly. He didn't pass it on to Gardai. He told the subtenant where I work and study to go there to file a complaint against me.

    Like I said I did not have a lease that outlined the terms and conditions so I presumed it was fine to sublet while I wasn't in the country. I did not sublet to earn more money the same amount I was paying for the month was the same amount I asked the subtenant to pay.

    Okay, now you know you were wrong in your assumption. The point I'm making is that he could contact the Garda. You brought this person into your landlords life and I don't think HE is likely to have anything to worry about.

    That the money you illegally acquired was to pay rent is irrelevant.


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    #36
    goat2
    Registered Users Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭goat2


    You should have let the subletter know where you could be contacted all of the time,
    Had you not done that, if not, Why


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    #37
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,930 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Graham wrote: »
    It's not that you're particularly bad at explaining things. Many of your recent points would however benefit from corroboration, ideally from an authoritative source.


    I thought the CEO of boards & his legal team would have been authoritative enough.


    I'm lost. I honestly dont know what to say


    You haven't provided a link suggesting that I can't share public personal data without permission. It works both ways an authoritative source backing up your claims wouldn't go amiss either??


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    #38
    angel eyes 2012
    Registered Users Posts: 903 ✭✭✭angel eyes 2012


    Tiki90 wrote: »
    I don't think I was treated unfairly. He didn't pass it on to Gardai. He told the subtenant where I work and study to go there to file a complaint against me.

    Like I said I did not have a lease that outlined the terms and conditions so I presumed it was fine to sublet while I wasn't in the country. I did not sublet to earn more money the same amount I was paying for the month was the same amount I asked the subtenant to pay.

    Did you not know the subtenant already, in that they possibly already know where you work. Regardless, I don't see how any employer would have a role in dealing with a complaint unrelated to your employment.

    I would suggest that the landlord is on more precarious ground in relation to lack of registration with the RTB and possible audit with Revenue. Even if you were going to lodge a complaint with the DPC it would not be considered a serious breach. The RTB route is potentially more serious for the landlord.


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    #39
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Tiki90 wrote:
    Like I said I did not have a lease that outlined the terms and conditions so I presumed it was fine to sublet while I wasn't in the country. I did not sublet to earn more money the same amount I was paying for the month was the same amount I asked the subtenant to pay.


    Ahh come on. Subletting is not find unless you have the agreement of the landlord. You are now trying to justify what you did even though you know you were/are in the wrong.


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    #40
    goat2
    Registered Users Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭goat2


    Tiki90 wrote: »
    5 months ago I rented a property from a "Landlord" for 6 months with him stating that it would be possible to rent the property for 1 year after 6 months. The biggest mistake on my part was

    1, He did not present me with a property lease with terms and conditions. ONLY a 3 page lease stating the start and end of tenancy, his bank details and the address of the property. (However I did ask if I can get a RTB letter to prove that he registered of which he refused because he did not want to pay the fee and tenant tax).

    2, when brought a copy of the lease the first time his name was where the tenants name supposed to be and the landlord's name scratched off. And each time i asked for a proper copy the letters on pages got whiter and whiter.

    After being in the property for 3 months. I rang the landlord to discuss the possibility of a year lease. He declined stating that his father wants him to move out. Therefore he wants the apartment back. After that conversation I then decided to look for another place. Upon finding one I contacted him again and told him that if he wanted to have the place earlier. He then said that If I leave before the lease is up. I won't get my deposit back. I asked for the terms and conditions of the lease and he never gave it to me.

    I needed to leave the country for a few weeks. So I subleted the property for 2 months while I was gone to pay the rent. After I left he messaged me saying that we can come to an agreement for me to leave earlier. But at that point I wasn't there and someone else was in the property.

    A week ago he messaged me about the person I'm sublettin to and want to kick the person out of the property. And now he is does not want to return my deposit. To my understanding a landlord is not supposed to retain any deposit unless rent arrears , breach of lease, damage to property, unpaid bills and filthy property. None of that applies to me (Well I don't think so) since he did not provide terms and conditions of the lease. I did not know sublettin was prohibited because he did not say that it was.


    I have filed a mediation dispute with RTB and waiting for a response.

    1, He did not present me with a property lease with terms and conditions. ONLY a 3 page lease stating the start and end of tenancy, his bank details and the address of the property. (However I did ask if I can get a RTB letter to prove that he registered of which he refused because he did not want to pay the fee and tenant tax).

    2, when brought a copy of the lease the first time his name was where the tenants name supposed to be and the landlord's name scratched off. And each time i asked for a proper copy the letters on pages got whiter and whiter..[/QUOTE]


    Then how did he explain where and why this money was leaving your account and invested in his, and how did the person you brought in instead of you pay, was it you or was it into the landlords account, Landlord must have been paying tax, and if not, what reason was given for the transactions in bank.
    Is he on the dole or receiving unemployment,


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    #41
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I don't understand this...

    You sublet to someone else, and didn't give them any of your contact details. Or maybe it's you have them minimal details so they wouldn't be able to contact you if you decided to block them.

    Why?

    Did the person think they had year lease or something?

    Something doesn't add up with this story.


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    #42
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    OP...I hope you are going to declare your rental income for those months from your sub-letter to Revenue!


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    #43
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,436 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Ahh come on. Subletting is not find unless you have the agreement of the landlord. You are now trying to justify what you did even though you know you were/are in the wrong.
    There was no mention of subletting in the agreement so tough from the landlord's point of view.


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    #44
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    TheChizler wrote: »
    There was no mention of subletting in the agreement so tough from the landlord's point of view.
    Subletting occurs when a tenant permits another party to lease the rental property that the tenant has leased from the landlord. The tenant then assumes the position of landlord (known as the head tenant) in relation to his or her subtenant. Subletting usually occurs because the tenant has signed a fixed-term lease and wants, for whatever reason, to get out of the lease before it expires. Subletting can only take place with the consent of the landlord.

    https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/beginning-a-tenancy/types-of-tenancies-and-agreements/subletting-and-assignment/


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    #45
    Bigmac1euro
    Registered Users Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭Bigmac1euro


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    OP...I hope you are going to declare your rental income for those months from your sub-letter to Revenue!

    Lol


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    #46
    goat2
    Registered Users Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭goat2


    Graham wrote: »
    https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/beginning-a-tenancy/types-of-tenancies-and-agreements/subletting-and-assignment/

    The consent of the landlord, owner of property, has the right to know, thanks for that.
    The law was broken then, and it would only cost the tenant a lot more if this were to go to trial, better fix it without months of hassle and an empty pocked in the end


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    #47
    Browney7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭Browney7


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    OP...I hope you are going to declare your rental income for those months from your sub-letter to Revenue!

    On this, surely the rent he's paying to the LL is fully offsettable?


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    #48
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    Browney7 wrote: »
    On this, surely the rent he's paying to the LL is fully offsettable?

    Why would it? One is a non taxable related expense, the other is taxable revenue. Open to correction, but don't think the OP can claim rental room relief on an illegal sublet.


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    #49
    Browney7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭Browney7


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    Why would it? One is a non taxable related expense, the other is taxable revenue. Open to correction, but don't think the OP can claim rental room relief on an illegal sublet.

    In order to carry out his business of letting, he has to let off someone else. No different to mortgage interest surely but if someone can clarify I'm all ears!


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    #50
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,930 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    goat2 wrote: »
    The consent of the landlord, owner of property, has the right to know, thanks for that.
    The law was broken then, and it would only cost the tenant a lot more if this were to go to trial, better fix it without months of hassle and an empty pocked in the end




    This is why the op is crying GDPR imo. If the landlord has broken GDPR then it's a stick OP might hit him with.



    The only thing I'd say to OP is that it is a tiny breach & I doubt little more than a stern warning is all he would get especially if someone was living illegally in his property & he felt he had to breach GDPR to try find out if he had a trespasser in his property. This is my personal opinion & is based on reason rather than fact


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    #51
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,755 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Graham wrote: »
    Why would someone coming to do work on the house need to know where you go to college/work?

    "Contact John the tenant to arrange access. He's studying in NUIG but works nights in ABC Bar so don't expect him to be up at 9am the day after they were open late."

    ... is a very common approach used by landlords.


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    #52
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    Browney7 wrote: »
    In order to carry out his business of letting, he has to let off someone else. No different to mortgage interest surely but if someone can clarify I'm all ears!

    Whereas receipts from criminal activities (illegally attaining rental income) can be taxed paying rent on a residential agreement wouldn't qualify as a deductible expense. Imo.


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    #53
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,930 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    "Contact John the tenant to arrange access. He's studying in NUIG but works nights in ABC Bar so don't expect him to be up at 9am the day after they were open late."

    ... is a very common approach used by landlords.




    Agreed
    Doing shower repair I get texted or emailed tenants phone numbers several times per week. Rarely, if ever an email address but it would fall into the same lines I suppose. Tenant wants a working shower & I need to get in. I need contact info.


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    #54
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Agreed
    Doing shower repair I get texted or emailed tenants phone numbers several times per week. Rarely, if ever an email address but it would fall into the same lines I suppose. Tenant wants a working shower & I need to get in. I need contact info.

    You landlord still needs permission to pass on personal details.


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    #55
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,930 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    You landlord still needs permission to pass on personal details.


    Yes & no


    When you get a new tenant your new tenant should have agreed to your GDPR arrangements & both of you signed it. This should outline giving contact details to tradesmen. As of May 25th you should have this arrangement in place with existing tenants. I know some estate Agents get tenants to sign said agreement. This just to cover yourself


    From what I understand, consent is not required if personal information will be processed under ‘legal requirement’, ‘contract’, ‘vital interest’ or ‘legitimate interests’, which pretty much covers the reasons for why landlords would process information while managing a tenancy, so we should be just fine without consent as long as we do our job as we’re supposed to.


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    #56
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Tiki90 wrote: »
    ... He told the subtenant where I work and study to go there to file a complaint against me. ...

    I'm curious what the complaint is.

    We are missing some part of this puzzle.


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    #57
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,930 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    beauf wrote:
    I'm curious what the complaint is.

    beauf wrote:
    We are missing some part of this puzzle.

    I think op subletted without permission & landlord won't return the deposit

    I think op wants to use GDPR as leverage to try and get the deposit back

    Forgive me if I got that wrong boards.ie is acting up today on my phone


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    #58
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,436 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Graham wrote: »
    https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/beginning-a-tenancy/types-of-tenancies-and-agreements/subletting-and-assignment/
    Not sure where I got that idea so, maybe I was thinking that the landlord can't refuse a sublet if it's not in the lease? And the tenant can give notice if they refuse?


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    #59
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    I think op subletted without permission & landlord won't return the deposit

    I think op wants to use GDPR as leverage to try and get the deposit back

    Forgive me if I got that wrong boards.ie is acting up today on my phone
    Tiki90 wrote: »
    He told the subtenant where I work and study to go there to file a complaint against me.

    This reads to me that the subtenant is complaining to the tenant rather than the tenant to the landlord.

    From how I understand the situation the landlord is being pretty lenient to be honest. (Or just doesn't want to rock the boat as he doesn't have his own affairs in order)


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    #60
    angel eyes 2012
    Registered Users Posts: 903 ✭✭✭angel eyes 2012


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Yes & no


    When you get a new tenant your new tenant should have agreed to your GDPR arrangements & both of you signed it. This should outline giving contact details to tradesmen. As of May 25th you should have this arrangement in place with existing tenants. I know some estate Agents get tenants to sign said agreement. This just to cover yourself


    From what I understand, consent is not required if personal information will be processed under ‘legal requirement’, ‘contract’, ‘vital interest’ or ‘legitimate interests’, which pretty much covers the reasons for why landlords would process information while managing a tenancy, so we should be just fine without consent as long as we do our job as we’re supposed to.

    Yes, Article 6(1)(f) legitimate interest applies here, consent is not required, however it comes with a caveat. For instance, it doesn't allow for the data controller (landlord) to provide all personal information pertaining to the original tenant to the subtenant. If you obtain personal information for a particular purpose, you may not use the data for any other purpose, and you may not divulge the personal data to a third party, except in ways that are "compatible" with the specified purpose.

    In other words, landlord could provide contact details of original tenant and that may legitimately include his workplace, however subtenant could not use that information for another purpose ie to potentially lodge a complaint to OP's employer, this use of the data in this manner would indeed be a breach of the GDPR. However, I highly doubt the Data Protection Commission would consider it a significant breach.

    In conclusion, the lawful basis of consent is not essential in most cases when processing data, and in fact I see an increase in Data Controllers insisting on it where they don't actually require it, e.g. Doctors' surgery. Consent is more necessary in the context of marketing and profiling, particularly online activties.


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    #61
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,930 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    angel eyes 2012 wrote:
    In conclusion, the lawful basis of consent is not essential in most cases when processing data, and in fact I see an increase in Data Controllers insisting on it where they don't actually require it, e.g. Doctors' surgery. Consent is more necessary in the context of marketing and profiling, particularly online activties.


    I don't suppose you'd like to wade in on the earlier debate about sharing public personal data from someone's Facebook page without consent?


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