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Too many teachers in our schools are Irish nationals

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    #122
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,952 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    because most of the populate are white and irish. Maybe not 99% but these things take time to catch up.

    Over 20% of the people living in Ireland are foreign-born and that is rising, yet we are happy to persist with the fact that there are some jobs that are plainly discriminatory to those 20%+

    That my friend is called racism-lite.


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    #123
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,154 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    markodaly wrote: »
    Over 20% of the people living in Ireland are foreign-born and that is rising, yet we are happy to persist with the fact that there are some jobs that are plainly discriminatory to those 20%+

    That my friend is called racism-lite.


    and most of those in the last 20 or so years. It is the next generation of those immigrants that can become primary school teachers if they wish and they will enjoyed the same advantages as the child of native irish people.


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    #124
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,952 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Irish is the first language of the state. Maybe one day we might start to actually teach it properly and we end up with a bilingual generation like the welsh.

    The Catholic Church had a special position also in the constitution and a woman's place was in the home. I guess we just have to accept those as well?
    Right?

    The Ireland of 1937 and of 2018 is very different.

    Today, there are more Polish and Mandarin speakers than Irish every day.
    In the next ten years, it will fall out of the top 5 most spoken languages in the state.

    There is a reason why Ireland never adopted right wing politics, its because we fool ourselves that postcolonial Irish nationalism is not the same thing as the likes of the EDL would be fighting for. When it comes to sacred cows of Irish identity we as a nation are as right wing as the EDL and BNP.


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    #125
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,154 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    markodaly wrote: »
    The Catholic Church had a special position also in the constitution and a woman's place was in the home. I guess we just have to accept those as well?
    Right?

    The Ireland of 1937 and of 2018 is very different.

    Today, there are more Polish and Mandarin speakers than Irish every day.
    In the next ten years, it will fall out of the top 5 most spoken languages in the state.

    There is a reason why Ireland never adopted right wing politics, its because we fool ourselves that postcolonial Irish nationalism is not the same thing as the likes of the EDL would be fighting for. When it comes to sacred cows of Irish identity we as a nation are as right wing as the EDL and BNP.


    I'll leave you to have your little rant. you're talking complete nonsense now.


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    #126
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,952 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    and most of those in the last 20 or so years. It is the next generation of those immigrants that can become primary school teachers if they wish and they will enjoyed the same advantages as the child of native irish people.

    Ah, so **** the 1st and 2nd generation of migrants.
    How very Boris Johnson of you.

    What about the new migrants that will be arriving every year? Back of the queue to ya! How very 'welcoming'.


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    #127
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,952 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    I'll leave you to have your little rant. you're talking complete nonsense now.

    Pesky facts! How dare they burst my racist bubble.


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    #128
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,154 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    markodaly wrote: »
    Ah, so **** the 1st and 2nd generation of migrants.
    How very Boris Johnson of you.

    What about the new migrants that will be arriving every year? Back of the queue to ya! How very 'welcoming'.
    markodaly wrote: »
    Pesky facts! How dare they burst my racist bubble.


    Paul Murphy would be embarrassed to post crap like that.


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    #129
    An tUasal C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,586 ✭✭✭✭An tUasal C


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Thread title specifies "Irish nationals".

    The English language point is a non-starter., unless you're implying teachers need Irish in order to communicate with the students.

    Disagree with the last part and put forward a alternate proposal, see quote below. Another would be to scrap compulsory Irish (whole different debate, to be fair).

    At this point, the whole thing becomes a catch-22 situation: we need Irish speakers so that they can teach kids Irish so that they'll have it if they want to be come teachers so that they can tech kids Irish so that -- you get the idea.

    Even in English speaking primary schools, teachers do need to be able to communicate with the students in Irish when they are teaching it. Not sure what your point is though. Someone from Lithuania with bad speaking/writing skills and lack of knowledge English obviously shouldn't be teaching in a primary school here because like Irish a high standard is expected. You know what I meant, teachers should be well rounded and multi-disciplined of course that includes English. Foreign teachers are expected to know that, why not Irish?

    Irish is an official language of the state and hence it should be learned in schools. Why should Irish have to be taught by another teacher and not music, I am sure plenty of primary school teachers cannot play an instrument and why not get artists and geographers in while we are it? There are enough people out there capable of the job of primary teaching, black or white, catholic or protestant, Irish or not Irish so I do not see why it would be necessary to scrap an entire language to benefit a minority that could learn Irish if they wanted to.


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    #130
    zapitastas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 498 ✭✭zapitastas


    markodaly wrote: »
    Ah, so **** the 1st and 2nd generation of migrants.
    How very Boris Johnson of you.

    What about the new migrants that will be arriving every year? Back of the queue to ya! How very 'welcoming'.

    Anyone can learn Irish if they are so inclined and it does not cost thousands of euro either. Are now more means than ever for becoming an Irish speaker. The idea that someone can't learn to become proficient in Irish because they are not Irish nationals is lunacy. It is a language not the enigma.

    As well as that if you go into any gaelscoil in the country you can see for yourself that there is a very strong presence of children whose parents would not be Irish nationals. Rather than dying the language is certainly having a bit of a resurgence


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    #131
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,022 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    An tUasal C wrote: »
    Even in English speaking primary schools, teachers do need to be able to communicate with the students in Irish when they are teaching it. Not sure what your point is though. Someone from Lithuania with bad speaking/writing skills and lack of knowledge English obviously shouldn't be teaching in a primary school here because like Irish a high standard is expected. You know what I meant, teachers should be well rounded and multi-disciplined of course that includes English. Foreign teachers are expected to know that, why not Irish?

    Again, this is ciyclical thinking.

    My point was that teachers need a common language with their students to communicate. Yours was that they need it to teach it. Both true, but the first is a need, the second isn't. If the kids only spoke English then would you hire a monolingual Irish-speaker...? of course not.

    Ultimately, your argument failed to recognise the fact that the reasons for the two languages are completly different.
    Irish is an official language of the state and hence it should be learned in schools. Why should Irish have to be taught by another teacher and not music, I am sure plenty of primary school teachers cannot play an instrument and why not get artists and geographers in while we are it? There are enough people out there capable of the job of primary teaching, black or white, catholic or protestant, Irish or not Irish so I do not see why it would be necessary to scrap an entire language to benefit a minority that could learn Irish if they wanted to.

    Bold bit number one: EXACTYLY!!! And yet we don't insist that teachers need to be able to play the piano before they train to be teachers, do we?

    Bold bit number two: massive strawman argument, is this "scrapping an entire langauge" is not and never will be my point. If you want to debate that as an issue, find someone who posted it. Isn't and isn't going to be me.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #132
    zapitastas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 498 ✭✭zapitastas


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Irish is the first language of the state. Maybe one day we might start to actually teach it properly and we end up with a bilingual generation like the welsh.

    It has changed now at primary level as there is a heavy focus of using it through song and play so that it has a positive association and children look forward to the Irish class . I am not sure about secondary though


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    #133
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,154 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    zapitastas wrote: »
    It has changed now at primary level as there is a heavy focus of using it through song and play so that it has a positive association and children look forward to the Irish class . I am not sure about secondary though


    well that can only be a good thing. A pity they didnt have that when i was in school.


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    #134
    zapitastas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 498 ✭✭zapitastas


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    well that can only be a good thing. A pity they didnt have that when i was in school.

    Yeah personally speaking I disliked Irish when in school. It is only in the last number of years that I decided to learn the language. While I still struggle with some of the grammar it has been a remarkably positive experience second time around. someone commented earlier that it costs thousands. My first port of call was a free language resource through the library, mango. This was like a refresher. Followed by a night course which cost 130 euro. Then I have been going to Irish nights in various pubs and also pop up gaeltachts. I am lucky in that I have some friends that a fluent so I can chat away to them.


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    #135
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    munchkin_utd wrote: »
    English at a native speaker level also needed for primary teaching, which is sortof an advantage for native english speakers.

    I'd say irish geography or history is also not big on the curriculum in Nigeria or Latvia or wherever people arrive from.

    Such a stupid bit of research.

    Should probably my rule out most of the country then.


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    #136
    Atoms for Peace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Atoms for Peace


    The Catholic Church is really failing when it comes to indoctrination. Despite spending my primary education in Catholic schools I'm know agnostic.


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    #137
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Atoms for Peace wrote: »
    The Catholic Church is really failing when it comes to indoctrination. Despite spending my primary education in Catholic schools I'm know agnostic.

    Got a good education so!


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    #138
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    Atoms for Peace wrote: »
    The Catholic Church is really failing when it comes to indoctrination. Despite spending my primary education in Catholic schools I'm know agnostic.

    Same as the Gaelic League


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    #139
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,753 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    zapitastas wrote: »
    It has changed now at primary level as there is a heavy focus of using it through song and play so that it has a positive association and children look forward to the Irish class . I am not sure about secondary though

    We had songs in irish...we didn't know wtf we were singing about!


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