Slaughtering in calf cows & heifers

locky76

A good few suckler farmers around home have been badly burnt financially over the past 12 months and are looking to scale back. However as per usual they ran the bull with all the cows and heifers from end of April onwards. They are now planning on sending the worst performing cows to the factory, ones that will be between 4 to 7 months in calf.
What are people's thoughts on this?

whelan2

locky76 wrote: »

A good few suckler farmers around home have been badly burnt financially over the past 12 months and are looking to scale back. However as per usual they ran the bull with all the cows and heifers from end of April onwards. They are now planning on sending the worst performing cows to the factory, ones that will be between 4 to 7 months in calf.
What are people's thoughts on this?

They should be docked in the factory.

K.G.

whelan2 wrote: »

They should be docked in the factory.

What!!!!.what difference does it make.same meat in them.

whelan2

K.G. wrote: »

What!!!!.what difference does it make.same meat in them.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, I think slaughtering cows over half way in calf is wrong. Unless there's a valid reason

annubis

locky76 wrote: »

A good few suckler farmers around home have been badly burnt financially over the past 12 months and are looking to scale back. However as per usual they ran the bull with all the cows and heifers from end of April onwards. They are now planning on sending the worst performing cows to the factory, ones that will be between 4 to 7 months in calf.
What are people's thoughts on this?

its wrong plain and simple

_Brian

I don’t like the idea at all.
But it’s preferable to animals being starved over the winter or a farmer going off his head worrying about how he will manage with no feeding.

In harsh years we shouldn’t judge lads too harshly.

memorystick

K.G. wrote: »

What!!!!.what difference does it make.same meat in them.

Nazi farming.

Hard Knocks

Don’t agree with it
Think they should scan first
There’s allot of cows repeating this year
Would they swap?

Green&Red

Needs must, I wouldn’t judge anyone too harshly. At the end of the day it’s an unborn animal

Dozer1

that's the way farming has gone now,
Industry has driven it that way plain and simple.

no place left for sentiment some mightn't like the idea but I don't see it changing back any time soon.

Pidae.m

Don't see anything wrong, people are running a business after all.

K.G.

Hold on while same amount of meatand no difference to quality t so reason to dock .as for the ethics knick yourselves out

patsy_mccabe

Kinda ironic that we are talking about this in the same year we voted for access to abortion.

_Brian

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Kinda ironic that we are talking about this in the same year we voted for access to abortion.

In fairness it’s something people would think farmers wouldn’t care about and most would avoid it completly, but needs must in a year like this.

charolais0153

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Kinda ironic that we are talking about this in the same year we voted for access to abortion.

I was thinking that too

valtra2

I find it hard to send not in calf cows to factory so definitely would not send in calf one's but then I have not been in that situation so can't judge. Usuall send most of my culls to Mart. In my head they are going to a nice farm to live out the rest of there life's. Please don't tell me otherwise.

_Brian

valtra2 wrote: »

I find it hard to send not in calf cows to factory so definitely would not send in calf one's but then I have not been in that situation so can't judge. Usuall send most of my culls to Mart. In my head they are going to a nice farm to live out the rest of there life's. Please don't tell me otherwise.

Gone to get young again, is what my wife was told when she was young ahem a cow was sent off to the factory.

grassroot1

K.G. wrote: »

What!!!!.what difference does it make.same meat in them.

extra srm

charolais0153

_Brian wrote: »

Gone to get young again, is what my wife was told when she was young ahem a cow was sent off to the factory.

Going to a special vet was one too!

Snowfire

Back in the day I was doing the practical part of Ai training in a factory, handling cull cows. I’d say a third of them were in calf, and some of them 5 mths+ in calf.
I remember thinking it was seriously wrong.
The lad training us was telling us about one of the factory staff that used to bring home the odd almost full term calf and rear them.

patsy_mccabe

How did he register them?

longgonesilver

The blood of premature calves is an important and very valuable growing medium in the pharma/vaccine industry. It contains no antibodies.

whelan2

Snowfire wrote: »

Back in the day I was doing the practical part of Ai training in a factory, handling cull cows. I’d say a third of them were in calf, and some of them 5 mths+ in calf.
I remember thinking it was seriously wrong.
The lad training us was telling us about one of the factory staff that used to bring home the odd almost full term calf and rear them.

I remember the same.. There was an angus cow more or less on the point of calving

Buford T. Justice XIX

I know I couldn't anyway. I am responsible for them being in calf so I'm responsible for them until after they calve is my way of looking at it.


Yes, it's a drain on money in a tight year but so is a Jex bull and I couldn't imaging putting down a perfectly healthy calf.

Snowfire

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

How did he register them?

I don’t know, twins...? I’d say it was touch and go with some of them if the immune system wasn’t fully developed.

whelan2

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I know I couldn't anyway. I am responsible for them being in calf so I'm responsible for them until after they calve is my way of looking at it.


Yes, it's a drain on money in a tight year but so is a Jex bull and I couldn't imaging putting down a perfectly healthy calf.

Especially when you spend so long trying to keep some of the calves alive

Sheep breeder

Snowfire wrote: »

Back in the day I was doing the practical part of Ai training in a factory, handling cull cows. I’d say a third of them were in calf, and some of them 5 mths+ in calf.
I remember thinking it was seriously wrong.
The lad training us was telling us about one of the factory staff that used to bring home the odd almost full term calf and rear them.

How did the get the calf out a live after the cow had her throat cut and into the blood bath and around to the belly table. Spent a good number of years working in factories and never seen a live calf and more to the point the tvi wouldn’t allowed it to happen.

Snowfire

Sheep breeder wrote: »

How did the get the calf out a live after the cow had her throat cut and into the blood bath and around to the belly table. Spent a good number of years working in factories and never seen a live calf and more to the point the tvi wouldn’t allowed it to happen.

He was probably talking about years ago, when things weren’t as stringent.

3 the square

You got to do what u have to do at times
High scc lameness frail girls have to go incalf or not they always come back to haunt you imo.

greysides

Snowfire wrote: »

He was probably talking about years ago, when things weren’t as stringent.

It used to happen. They'd know which cows to open up quick.

Nekarsulm

Snowfire wrote: »

I don’t know, twins...? I’d say it was touch and go with some of them if the immune system wasn’t fully developed.

Back in the dsys of the first calf tags (remember the flimsy aluminium ones) there was no corrolation of the tag nunber to a dam number.
I remember seeing two Dept Vets rescuccitating a calf in a little alcove just off the killing floor in Clones. (Or was it BJD?)
I wonder how they decided who got to bring it home?

orm0nd

greysides wrote: »

It used to happen. They'd know which cows to open up quick.

saw it myself back in the 70's a big ch bull must have been full term , think 1 guy had 10 or 12 calves he "rescued"

whelan2

What about tb reactors that are heavy in calf? Do they wait until they calve ?

Nekarsulm

whelan2 wrote: »

What about tb reactors that are heavy in calf? Do they wait until they calve ?

They accidentily get a shot of long acting wormer, and if they calve before the withdrawal period ends, whats a lad to do?

tanko

If more than 50% of a farmers cattle go down in a TB test arent all the cattle on the farm taken away and slaughtered even if theyre only a week old??

Nekarsulm

tanko wrote: »

If more than 50% of a farmers cattle go down in a TB test arent all the cattle on the farm taken away and slaughtered even if theyre only a week old??

Yes, if you are being depopulated, although the Dept. seem to sometimes let it drag on until 75% have been diagnosed and taken. Saves money.
The Dept. ( or the knackery lorry driver) shoot the suck calves on the farm the day the cows are brought, and they're brought straight to the knackery.

mycro2013

It happens alot, kind of a well known within the industry. Heard of cows calving in the trucks on route to factories.

What has tightened up lads taking these animals is the bvd test.

KevinCavan

After the abortion referendum has been passed I’d say it’s grand.:-)

Base price

greysides wrote: »

It used to happen. They'd know which cows to open up quick.

Many years ago I visited one of the first automated factory lines in Ireland, the manager was a in-law. We went to view the factory late that night on the way home from the pub

There was a few pens of cattle in the lairage mostly bullocks but one had three British Friesian cows and one of them was at the point of calving. We stood watching her calve and when the calf landed we helped the calf to stand and suck.
The next day (realistically that evening after I got over from the hangover) my in-law asked me would I buy the calf and would I be interested in her dam and the other two cows in the pen as they were heavy in calf.

I agreed a price with the farmer and they were my first commercial sucklers.

That type of arrangement wouldn't happen nowdays - what goes to the factory, stays at the factory.

Iodine1

As usual in these cases it is impossible to judge when you are not walking in the other mans shoes. The owner made a decision to move on a cow, he may not have all the options:
Sell privately or through mart? Not an option if he's a restricted herd?
Keep cow: Is she healthy? Wild?
Sell cow sooner before x months in calf? perhaps she rearing a calf?
Keep her away from bull? Often easier said than done?
Keep more cows and then have a feed problem thus all cows in herd suffer? Kind neighbour reports him to RSPCA?
I could go on as my imagination runs away, so let's go easy on judgement.
In my own case, NO i would not like doing it, but could I see myself doing it? Most certainly YES.

Goodeone

Hi All,
Sorry to drag up this old thread.
We have a very dangerous cow due to calf in approx 6 weeks. We have let her outdoors to calf the last 2 years as you would not be able to stand foot inside a shed with her, nothing would stop her coming for you when she is calving. We wanted to get rid of her but with our system we were not able to keep her separate from the bull. I know i could have used estrumate on her but we are past that now. The main problem is that she is in calf to twins so if things are not coming right we will not be able to assist. Is there any issue slaughtering a cow that close to calving? The father does not want to entertain the idea of slaughtering her so it doesn't make things any easier.

hopeso

K.G. wrote: »

What!!!!.what difference does it make.same meat in them.

There will be a difference in the meat. An in calf cow or heifer will have a lot more white fat in the meat. Muscle is turned to fat during pregnancy. The fat has better reserves for feeding the calf.....

greysides

In my book, human safety trumps welfare ethics. Not impressed that the situation was allowed develop to this point though.

bonaparte2

Goodeone wrote: »

Hi All,
Sorry to drag up this old thread.
We have a very dangerous cow due to calf in approx 6 weeks. We have let her outdoors to calf the last 2 years as you would not be able to stand foot inside a shed with her, nothing would stop her coming for you when she is calving. We wanted to get rid of her but with our system we were not able to keep her separate from the bull. I know i could have used estrumate on her but we are past that now. The main problem is that she is in calf to twins so if things are not coming right we will not be able to assist. Is there any issue slaughtering a cow that close to calving? The father does not want to entertain the idea of slaughtering her so it doesn't make things any easier.

Kill her. You can't take chances . You know she's dangerous. People are killed by dangerous cattle every year.

RD10

Out of curiosity Can i ask, why she couldnt be seperated from bull?
What kind of handling facilities have you got?
Presume she's a bit of a show jumper when penned up.
Sounds though that she's too dangerous to be anywhere near at calving.
Does she calm down a few weeks after calving?
To me, she should have been sent for slaughter well before now, but i dont know your circumstances.
I'm thinking safety first too if she's that bad..

Castlekeeper

Goodeone wrote: »

Hi All,
Sorry to drag up this old thread.
We have a very dangerous cow due to calf in approx 6 weeks. We have let her outdoors to calf the last 2 years as you would not be able to stand foot inside a shed with her, nothing would stop her coming for you when she is calving. We wanted to get rid of her but with our system we were not able to keep her separate from the bull. I know i could have used estrumate on her but we are past that now. The main problem is that she is in calf to twins so if things are not coming right we will not be able to assist. Is there any issue slaughtering a cow that close to calving? The father does not want to entertain the idea of slaughtering her so it doesn't make things any easier.

Out the door and into the trailer with her, and don't let it cost you a thought. You've done the best you could to keep her this long and it's not your fault she'sunmanageable and having twins. She's just not a viable farm animal, same as many others.

patsy_mccabe

Goodeone wrote: »

Hi All,
Sorry to drag up this old thread.
We have a very dangerous cow due to calf in approx 6 weeks. We have let her outdoors to calf the last 2 years as you would not be able to stand foot inside a shed with her, nothing would stop her coming for you when she is calving. We wanted to get rid of her but with our system we were not able to keep her separate from the bull. I know i could have used estrumate on her but we are past that now. The main problem is that she is in calf to twins so if things are not coming right we will not be able to assist. Is there any issue slaughtering a cow that close to calving? The father does not want to entertain the idea of slaughtering her so it doesn't make things any easier.

Ah c'mon lads. Have ye not dealt with mad cows before?

Have you good facilities to handle her at calving? If so just take all the necessary precautions. Put another very quiet cow with her at all times to keep her calm. Get her used to eating nuts out through the calving gate.
if you have to put her in the calving gate, put a rope halter on her too as an extra precaution.

If you don't have a calving gate, put rope halter on her a few days ahead of calving and leave a short bit of rope hanging from it. Put some nuts in under the gate and grab the rope then and tie to soemthing solid. A second heavy rope or strap around teh neck then as added safety.

I've dealt with nutters like this over the years. You can sell her off then when calved.

grassroot1

If she is carrying twins she should have no problem getting them out at least . I would be inclined to let her into a paddock with strict instructions nobody was to interfere at calving. Written notice on the gate also when she calms down separate cow and calves immediately and sent the cow to the factory and calves to the mart.
No excuses for dangerous animals

whelan2

grassroot1 wrote: »

If she is carrying twins she should have no problem getting them out at least . I would be inclined to let her into a paddock with strict instructions nobody was to interfere at calving. Written notice on the gate also when she calms down separate cow and calves immediately and sent the cow to the factory and calves to the mart.
No excuses for dangerous animals

Twins could be coming together at the same time or could be wrapped up together. Then you'd have the drama of getting them to drink.I would put my foot down and orgainise for her to go asap

K.G.

Goodeone wrote: »

Hi All,
Sorry to drag up this old thread.
We have a very dangerous cow due to calf in approx 6 weeks. We have let her outdoors to calf the last 2 years as you would not be able to stand foot inside a shed with her, nothing would stop her coming for you when she is calving. We wanted to get rid of her but with our system we were not able to keep her separate from the bull. I know i could have used estrumate on her but we are past that now. The main problem is that she is in calf to twins so if things are not coming right we will not be able to assist. Is there any issue slaughtering a cow that close to calving? The father does not want to entertain the idea of slaughtering her so it doesn't make things any easier.

I noticed you said we.how would you feel if she attacked the other person/people and put a value on those 2 calves then

Ard_MC

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Ah c'mon lads. Have ye not dealt with mad cows before?

Have you good facilities to handle her at calving? If so just take all the necessary precautions. Put another very quiet cow with her at all times to keep her calm. Get her used to eating nuts out through the calving gate.
if you have to put her in the calving gate, put a rope halter on her too as an extra precaution.

If you don't have a calving gate, put rope halter on her a few days ahead of calving and leave a short bit of rope hanging from it. Put some nuts in under the gate and grab the rope then and tie to soemthing solid. A second heavy rope or strap around teh neck then as added safety.

I've dealt with nutters like this over the years. You can sell her off then when calved.

Spot on Patsy.