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The "Hurley" grip

  • 24-09-2018 8:19am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,185 ✭✭✭✭


    Lads a friend is taking up golf and is from a hurling background.

    I know everyone says you shouldn't.

    But anyone here got the actual technical reason why it is problematic in the golf swing ?

    Another friend gets on ok with it.


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    I'd say if he's no aspirations of going pro then go with whatever works.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 752 ✭✭✭ShivasIrons


    Wrist angles is the main reason why left below right for right handed golfers isn't ideal. Much harder to get the correct flexion and extension (or bowing and cupping).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 126 ✭✭cellosid


    It was good enough for Sewsunker,............... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sewsunker_Sewgolum


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 57 ✭✭is this username available


    The biggest problem is other golfers telling you you're never going to improve :D

    Joking aside, you learn to adapt to what suits and the swing comes naturally. I hit pretty long and most days it's fine. As with everyone else it's the short game that costs me shots and I can't really put that down to grip.

    Cackhanded feels right to me. Tried orthodox grip but after swinging a hurl for 30 years the brain is hardwired. Everyone is trying to fix something, be it their grip, swing, alignment, etc. No different for me. I decided to play with hurly grip and enjoy myself rather than get frustrated trying normal grip.

    I'd tell him to get out and enjoy himself! I don't regret it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭RoadRunner


    Most "regular grip" people with a swing issue or trait they don't like either go to a pro for help or self-disgnose problems perhaps with help from youtube. I'd imagine that all of this support is off the table for cack guys, who have to make it their own way through feel. I'm sure there are merits to bucking the accepted way and doing things your own way!


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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,808 Mod ✭✭✭✭Keano


    Hurling grip isn't cack handed. Think they are being confused?!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭RoadRunner


    Keano wrote: »
    Hurling grip isn't cack handed. Think they are being confused?!

    Oops. I thought they were the same thing :o


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭Miley Byrne


    Keano wrote: »
    Hurling grip isn't cack handed. Think they are being confused?!

    What's the difference between them? Both left below right I would have thought?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭the lawman


    I was left below right for first 4 years of playing golf (started when I was 30 / played P&P for childhood with left below right).

    I was adamant that I'd never change as I thought it would be impossible to retrain the brain. I got to 12 and long story short I decided to change. Best move I ever made and it was so much easier than I feared. I had it changed and feeling 'normal' after a week of range work.

    I still putt and chip from around the green with old grip. Got down to 7 but now off 10 (other story!).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,315 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    As someone who has played hurling all my life I've never understood what is meant by "hurling grip". I hold a golf club the same as I hold a Hurley apart from linking the hands but no one refers to me as having a hurling grip. Is it not linking the hands?

    Can someone explain?

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭plumber77


    As someone who has played hurling all my life I've never understood what is meant by "hurling grip". I hold a golf club the same as I hold a Hurley apart from linking the hands but no one refers to me as having a hurling grip. Is it not linking the hands?

    Can someone explain?

    The classic grip for a right handed Hurler would be right hand on top. The classic grip for a right handed golfer would be left hand on top. I think that is all it refers to. Nothing got to do with linking or overlapping the fingers.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,808 Mod ✭✭✭✭Keano


    What's the difference between them? Both left below right I would have thought?
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTqo-5m2L9eEmUNhLw9BdsHaJn4RONmRpcwv0bY72-0JOtNkf-jxw


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭plumber77


    Keano wrote: »
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTqo-5m2L9eEmUNhLw9BdsHaJn4RONmRpcwv0bY72-0JOtNkf-jxw

    This guy is striking off his left. If he was to be considered a stickman in a traditional hurler viewpoint he would have his left hand on top.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭Miley Byrne


    Keano wrote: »
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTqo-5m2L9eEmUNhLw9BdsHaJn4RONmRpcwv0bY72-0JOtNkf-jxw


    Right hand on top, right handed hurler. Not sure of your point?

    If he was to use that grip (left hand lower) and at the same time use an orthodox golf grip he'd have to play golf left handed. If he were to use that grip and play golf right handed then he would be playing cack handed.

    We are talking about right handed hurlers (left hand low) using that grip to play golf right handed ie: cack handed


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,808 Mod ✭✭✭✭Keano


    plumber77 wrote: »
    This guy is striking off his left. If he was to be considered a stickman in a traditional hurler viewpoint he would have his left hand on top.

    Well that's just not true.
    Right hand on top, right handed hurler. Not sure of your point?

    If he was to use that grip (left hand lower) and at the same time use an orthodox golf grip he'd have to play golf left handed. If he were to use that grip and play golf right handed then he would be playing cack handed.

    We are talking about right handed hurlers (left hand low) using that grip to play golf right handed ie: cack handed

    No he wouldn't he would still be right hand on top. Look at Phil, he's a lefty and what hand is on top?

    phil-mickelson.jpg

    Cack handed just is a lot more comfortable for some people but it's not a hurling grip, in fact most coaches try get kids to put right hand on top from the get go but obviously some just hate it and revert to left hand on top.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭kiers47


    Spot on what people are saying. The traditional standpoint and what is thought to all at underage is the dominant hand on top.

    A couple of famous goalkeepers off the top of my head use the weak hand on top grip. Brendan Cummins being the first name that comes to mind.
    I believe Anthony Nash also uses weak hand on top grip.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭plumber77


    Not true why Keano. At least elaborate on your point.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,220 ✭✭✭bren2001


    If he's more comfortable with his right hand on top, would he consider just playing golf left handed?

    It's what I did but I was a helluva a lot more comfortable on my left side in hurling as well.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭Miley Byrne


    Keano wrote: »
    Well that's just not true.



    No he wouldn't he would still be right hand on top. Look at Phil, he's a lefty and what hand is on top?

    phil-mickelson.jpg

    Cack handed just is a lot more comfortable for some people but it's not a hurling grip, in fact most coaches try get kids to put right hand on top from the get go but obviously some just hate it and revert to left hand on top.


    I'm not sure how I can explain this properly to you but I'll try:

    A orthodox right handed hurler holds the hurley with his right hand on top.
    Most right handed people play golf right handed which is right hand lower.
    Now some right handed hurlers cannot make the adjustment to play right handed golf with an orthodox right hand lower grip. These people either play left handed golf with an orthodox left handed grip (left below right) or more ofthen than not play right handed golf cack handed ie left below right

    Your picture of Tony Kelly (?) is of a right handed hurler striking the sliotar off of his left hand side, who if he assumed this position to take a shot in golf would be setting up as a natural lefty would with an orthodox left handed grip


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭Miley Byrne


    Keano wrote: »
    Well that's just not true.



    No he wouldn't he would still be right hand on top. Look at Phil, he's a lefty and what hand is on top?

    phil-mickelson.jpg

    Cack handed just is a lot more comfortable for some people but it's not a hurling grip, in fact most coaches try get kids to put right hand on top from the get go but obviously some just hate it and revert to left hand on top.


    Also, phil is not a lefty. Just a right hander who plays left handed


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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,808 Mod ✭✭✭✭Keano


    plumber77 wrote: »
    Not true why Keano. At least elaborate on your point.
    Right hand should always be on top. Regardless if you left or right handed but of course like kiers pointed out a few go weak hand on top as that just works for them


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭Miley Byrne


    Keano wrote: »
    Right hand should always be on top. Regardless if you left or right handed but of course like kiers pointed out a few go weak hand on top as that just works for them

    What?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    I've seen very few right handed hurlers use the right hand on top.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭allybhoy


    I'm not sure how I can explain this properly to you but I'll try:

    A orthodox right handed hurler holds the hurley with his right hand on top.
    Most right handed people play golf right handed which is right hand lower.
    Now some right handed hurlers cannot make the adjustment to play right handed golf with an orthodox right hand lower grip. These people either play left handed golf with an orthodox left handed grip (left below right) or more ofthen than not play right handed golf cack handed ie left below right

    This is correct certainly in my instance.
    Im left handed, played hurling for 15 odd years left handed, took up golf after hurling, and i play golf orthodox right handed. IE I use right handed clubs and my right hand is lower.

    Tried playing golf with left handed clubs and also tried left handed clubs "cack handed" but the most comfortable set up for me is orthodox right handed. A friend of mine is the same, he is left handed but plays orthodox right. Hes also a lot better than me, he's playing off 8...

    As many have suggested, id just go with whatever feels most comfortable and enjoy your game.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭allybhoy


    Patww79 wrote: »
    I've seen very few right handed hurlers use the right hand on top.

    Well im not doubting you but every hurler i know uses their stronger hand on top... i coach underage kids at hurling and we coach all our kids to use their stronger hand at the top. Its one of the fundamentals of the game...




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭Miley Byrne


    Patww79 wrote: »
    I've seen very few right handed hurlers use the right hand on top.


    Seen very few right handed hurlers use the right hand on top playing hurling or playing golf?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    allybhoy wrote: »
    Well im not doubting you but every hurler i know uses their stronger hand on top... i coach underage kids at hurling and we coach all our kids to use their stronger hand at the top. Its one of the fundamentals of the game...

    In fairness, I'm from Wicklow :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    Seen very few right handed hurlers use the right hand on top playing hurling or playing golf?

    Playing hurling, I think anyway but I'm starting to doubt it now.

    I was left on top for hurling on golf but I was always scandalously bad at both.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭Miley Byrne


    Keano wrote: »
    Right hand should always be on top. Regardless if you left or right handed but of course like kiers pointed out a few go weak hand on top as that just works for them

    Are you seriously saying that in hurling every player should have the right hand on top regardless of their dexterity? That's just not true and if this was coached at underage level would end up with 90% of left handers giving up the game before they reach the age of 12.

    Should every darts player throw darts with his right hand too?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭plumber77


    Keano wrote: »
    Right hand should always be on top. Regardless if you left or right handed but of course like kiers pointed out a few go weak hand on top as that just works for them

    Looks like no definitive answers in regard to this.

    I would have always thought(traditionally of course there are exceptions)
    Right handed Hurler - right hand on top
    Left handed Hurler - left hand on top

    Opposite hand on top then for a classic golf grip.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭Miley Byrne


    Patww79 wrote: »
    Playing hurling, I think anyway but I'm starting to doubt it now.

    I was left on top for hurling on golf but I was always scandalously bad at both.


    Some right handed hurlers (right hand on top) are stronger hitting off of their left hand side. This leads onlookers (and I may me wrong here)to believe that these are left handed.
    Don't get me wrong there are exceptions but from a young age we coach youngsters to use there dominant hand at the top of the hurley.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,808 Mod ✭✭✭✭Keano


    Are you seriously saying that in hurling every player should have the right hand on top regardless of their dexterity? That's just not true and if this was coached at underage level would end up with 90% of left handers giving up the game before they reach the age of 12.

    Should every darts player throw darts with his right hand too?
    Yes I am. No they don't as they get used to it very quickly and adapt but again I will say some chose to go back to left hand on top.
    I am right handed who played hurling but my left side was stronger!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,220 ✭✭✭bren2001


    Keano wrote: »
    Yes I am. No they don't as they get used to it very quickly and adapt but again I will say some chose to go back to left hand on top.
    I am right handed who played hurling but my left side was stronger!

    Well you're wrong. Dominant hand goes on top, that's your left hand for left handed players.

    Why would left handers not put their dominant hand on top? (in hurling)


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,808 Mod ✭✭✭✭Keano


    bren2001 wrote: »
    Well you're wrong. Dominant hand goes on top, that's your left hand for left handed players.

    Why would left handers not put their dominant hand on top? (in hurling)
    We can disagree but point out to me how many in the modern game play with left hand on top? I'd say less than 2% and they are for sure many more left handed but they were thought, right hand on top


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭Miley Byrne


    plumber77 wrote: »
    Looks like no definitive answers in regard to this.

    I would have always thought(traditionally of course there are exceptions)
    Right handed Hurler - right hand on top
    Left handed Hurler - left hand on top

    Opposite hand on top then for a classic golf grip.

    Excluding exceptions and using orthodox techniques you are 100% correct. I've actually thought that if I was to take up the game in the morning that it would be more natural to play golf left handed as a fella who played hurling right handed.

    My young fella is left handed and I have been teaching him golf right handed as I think it will be to his advantage in the future (for many reasons)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭kiers47


    Keano wrote: »
    We can disagree but point out to me how many in the modern game play with left hand on top? I'd say less than 2% and they are for sure many more left handed but they were thought, right hand on top

    Paudie Maher and Bonner Maher. 2 off the top of my head. Not sure of other counties.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭kiers47


    TJ Reid i think as well


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,220 ✭✭✭bren2001


    Keano wrote: »
    We can disagree but point out to me how many in the modern game play with left hand on top? I'd say less than 2% and they are for sure many more left handed but they were thought, right hand on top

    I'll name as many as you want. Any coaching course I've been on has agreed with me. Whats your logic for left handed players not to have their dominant hand on top?


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,808 Mod ✭✭✭✭Keano


    We are going off topic :)

    But kids will start swapping hands too much on the hurley when the go left hand on top.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭Miley Byrne


    Keano wrote: »
    We can disagree but point out to me how many in the modern game play with left hand on top? I'd say less than 2% and they are for sure many more left handed but they were thought, right hand on top

    2% is a guess I presume? Were you expecting a 50/50 split between righties and lefties? Less than 10% of the population is left handed. Maybe that's why you perceive that 98% use a right handed grip. Maybe 98% actually do use a right handed grip but I can tell you that is not because left handers are converted into right handers.

    Bonner maher, jj delaney, Lar, Joe Deane......... i could go on and on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭Miley Byrne


    Keano wrote: »
    We are going off topic :)

    But kids will start swapping hands too much on the hurley when the go left hand on top.

    No they wont. They will do what they have always done which is (in most cases) play with their dominant hand on top which is the way they will have been coached since they took up the sport as 5/6 year olds


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,808 Mod ✭✭✭✭Keano


    All fantastic hurlers. The point I am getting at is yes if they want to leave there strong hand on top do but kids tend to try catch the ball with their left hand as that is their strongest and that causes all sorts of problems.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,512 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    I'm never letting my kids hold a hurl. No way they are gonna be learning how to golf wrong!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭kiers47


    Rikand wrote: »
    I'm never letting my kids hold a hurl. No way they are gonna be learning how to golf wrong!

    Probably a wise decision.

    "Location: Monksland, CO. ROSCOMMON!!!!!"
    :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 981 ✭✭✭mighty magpie


    As a hurler for 20 odd years and a golfer for 12, this thread has hurt my brain and keano, you've lost the run of yourself.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,844 ✭✭✭Glebee


    Im totally confused after reading this.

    I write with my right hand but golf / hurl on my left side. Stronger right hand always on top. No way could I put weaker left hand on top.

    My son writes with his left hand but golfs / hurls on his right hand side. Stronger left hand always on top.

    Messed up family...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,185 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    Jaysus - didn't know it was so controversial.

    I may have considered a Dublinism a well known expression -

    He plays with the "hurley grip" is used as an Irish expression for cack handed

    Most people who use this expression basically believe it is the wrong way to play.

    There was one explanation above on wrist action (complicated enough)

    In my own mind from trying it - I found it hard to release aggressive , the right hand has the most distance to travel (on a larger radius) and the most work to do at the fastest velocity. So it felt right for it to be my right hand.

    Now it could be just because I'm right handed - I felt that way.

    Total amateur analysis above.

    Most guys playing this way are rarely low golfers. You never see a pro do it. Except some odd ball one.


    By the way - if you look up the Etymology of cack handed (excrement) - I think we should stick to the more pleasant Hurley / Hurler grip.

    He is never going to take golf too serious - but was thinking if I should show him the " right " way.
    He has played hurling all his life. Ireland unusual like that I imagine? - guys taken up golf with a very ingrained grip.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 752 ✭✭✭ShivasIrons


    Jaysus - didn't know it was so controversial.

    I may have considered a Dublinism a well known expression -

    He plays with the "hurley grip" is used as an Irish expression for cack handed

    Most people who use this expression basically believe it is the wrong way to play.

    There was one explanation above on wrist action (complicated enough)

    In my own mind from trying it - I found it hard to release aggressive , the right hand has the most distance to travel (on a larger radius) and the most work to do at the fastest velocity. So it felt right for it to be my right hand.

    Now it could be just because I'm right handed - I felt that way.

    Total amateur analysis above.

    Most guys playing this way are rarely low golfers. You never see a pro do it. Except some odd ball one.


    By the way - if you look up the Etymology of cack handed (excrement) - I think we should stick to the more pleasant Hurley / Hurler grip.

    He is never going to take golf too serious - but was thinking if I should show him the " right " way.
    He has played hurling all his life. Ireland unusual like that I imagine? - guys taken up golf with a very ingrained grip.


    Why not have him play left handed? With left hand below the right.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,185 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    Why not have him play left handed? With left hand below the right.

    he has right handed clubs :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35 diegocosta99


    The only golfer I know who uses this grip plays off scratch. He's a county level hurler and is obviously very talented but his grip certainly hasn't hurt his game. If it feels right to you, go for it.


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