The future of public transport for Cork City Centre

Curb Your Enthusiasm

I'm in Belfast at the moment, and just noticed their brand new Glider buses - similar to Bus Rapid Transit, very high quality and always on time. Seriously impressed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfast_Rapid_Transport

http://www.translink.co.uk/also-on-our-site/Glider/

I wonder can we expect something similar for Cork in the near future?

Belfast, as a city in similar size and population to Cork, has incredibly efficient and user-friendly public transport.

The cost of the underground subway for Dublin could instead be used to improve what we already have - buses, light rail, heavy rail. It is incredibly frustrating to see so much money being spent on this project for just a few stations and again, just Dublin.

Cork's public transport needs a serious overhaul.

marno21

Cork is getting a Transport Strategy published by the NTA shortly. This will outline a 20 year strategy for transport in Cork, and is badly needed. A mish mash of disconnected ideas is what we have at present, and this will provide a roadmap for what's to be done

After this is published, BusConnects Cork will go to public consultation in early 2019. This will involve a new bus network for Cork, and associated infrastructure improvements to facilitate faster bus times (Patrick Street bus priority is one of these measures).

In the medium term, there is to be a feasibility study advanced for light rail in Cork, and if this doesn't merit progressing, it's likely a Bus Rapid Transit corridor will be progressed along the Ballincollig-Wilton-City Centre-Docklands-Mahon corridor.

namloc1980

We'll get loads of plans and shiny maps and drawings. The reality won't be quite as good. There are epic levels of complaints about BusConnects in Dublin and it's only at consultation phase. Imagine that in Cork? Neil and PJ will be inundated with calls because Jim and Mary will have to walk an extra minute to a bus stop or the 203 is no longer called the 203 and how will people cope etc etc. Anyway these plans should have been done already to be implemented now as the economy is in full recovery. Instead we're only just starting so that it can all be shelved just in time for the next recession.

Sephiroth_dude

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

I'm in Belfast at the moment, and just noticed their brand new Glider buses - similar to Bus Rapid Transit, very high quality and always on time. Seriously impressed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfast_Rapid_Transport

http://www.translink.co.uk/also-on-our-site/Glider/

I wonder can we expect something similar for Cork in the near future?

Belfast, as a city in similar size and population to Cork, has incredibly efficient and user-friendly public transport.

The cost of the underground subway for Dublin could instead be used to improve what we already have - buses, light rail, heavy rail. It is incredibly frustrating to see so much money being spent on this project for just a few stations and again, just Dublin.

Cork's public transport needs a serious overhaul.

Pigs will fly before any of that happens down here unfortunately.

whisky_galore

They were talking about light rail/tramways since the 70's.

Talk is cheap of course.
I wouldn't hold my breath.

snotboogie

https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/New-traffic-plan-for-the-Cork-Docklands-3d8cc790-be83-433d-b9c2-5e11cb226bea-ds

run_Forrest_run

Listen they can't even get some of the hopeless bitter drivers to turn on the Real Time information tracker in the current buses they are driving, forget these shiny plans and reports and just get the basics working and then we can see where things stand.

Public transport in Cork: A joke of a system, nothing will change until you change the mindset of the unions and the workers.

engiweirdo

Back to the horse powered tram. This service will be provoded exclusively and at a cost of only €77bn by Denis O Brien inc.

Padraig Mor

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

Listen they can't even get some of the hopeless bitter drivers to turn on the Real Time information tracker in the current buses they are driving, forget these shiny plans and reports and just get the basics working and then we can see where things stand.

Public transport in Cork: A joke of a system, nothing will change until you change the mindset of the unions and the workers.

Exactly. The bus service (or at least certain routes) is a shambles due to the workshy, good for nothing, drivers. My experience is mostly with the 205, the timetable for which is a work of fiction. My (blind) neighbour was let down - yet again - by it the other morning when it failed to turn up - yet again - at Kent Station. Just a few weeks ago I chanced it at 10.30 on a Friday morning - can't blame the traffic - ......and ended up having to practically run into town after waiting for ages, and the next bus disappearing from the RTPI.

The joke is you have certain posters here who would admonish people for choosing to drive over using this broken public transport system.

whisky_galore

Padraig Mor wrote: »

The joke is you have certain posters here who would admonish people for choosing to drive over using this broken public transport system.

Because filling the road with even more cars is clearly better.

The national mindset needs adjusting, as in let's not bother lobbying for better public transport because I've got a car and I'm alright Jack. The roads will simply choke with private cars.

pwurple

What mindset adjustment is required? That reliable transport is an unreasonable expectation? 
We should all just lower our standards right down, no, further again ... no, lower... keep on limbo-ing down there until the expectation of NO bus , and no ability to get to work is your corrected mindset. Then we're good?

run_Forrest_run

whisky_galore wrote: »

Because filling the road with even more cars is clearly better.

The national mindset needs adjusting, as in let's not bother lobbying for better public transport because I've got a car and I'm alright Jack. The roads will simply choke with private cars.

To change the mindset you have to convince the commuting public that they can rely on public transport and then they will begin to leave their cars at home.

If people have repeatedly been left stranded waiting for a bus, making them late for work etc then don't expect them to easily change their mindset.

Padraig Mor

whisky_galore wrote: »

Because filling the road with even more cars is clearly better.

The national mindset needs adjusting, as in let's not bother lobbying for better public transport because I've got a car and I'm alright Jack. The roads will simply choke with private cars.

What a pile of crap. Perhaps you need to re-read my post? Public transport sucks because it is essentially a social welfare payment to lazy, antisocial bus / train drivers. These people bear a serious grudge against their customers and, I have little doubt, delight in causing disruption to commuters. Make the service reliable and people will use it - why would they not? The problem currently is that it cannot be relied upon in any fashion. You may blame cars on the road for this as much as you like - and it is no doubt one cause - but the elephant in the room is the drivers, who will not provide a proper service no matter how much money is thrown at them.

FYI I had a taxsaver ticket two separate years and still resorted to driving much of the time as public transport was so useless - and it's gotten a hell of a lot worse since then, especially the buses.

deRanged

I gave up on the 205 a couple of years ago as it was so slow. It was faster and more reliable just to walk UCC-> Kent. I'm thinking of adding the bus back onto my taxsaver now that the Patrick St bus priority is in place. It seems to be much faster, according to the figures anyway.

Padraig Mor

deRanged wrote: »

I gave up on the 205 a couple of years ago as it was so slow. It was faster and more reliable just to walk UCC-> Kent. I'm thinking of adding the bus back onto my taxsaver now that the Patrick St bus priority is in place. It seems to be much faster, according to the figures anyway.

It's gotten worse. I've mentioned my neighbour above, who is visually impaired, almost blind. If he's not travelling with me, he's on the 205 & train. The amount of times he's been let down (pretty much daily) beggars belief, and it's gone really bad in the last 12 months. As I said above, the last time I attempted to get it (from College Rd area), it never showed up and disappeared from the RTPI - at 10.30 on a Friday morning! If they can't get them to turn up at off peak times like that, what hope peak times?

run_Forrest_run

deRanged wrote: »

I'm thinking of adding the bus back onto my taxsaver now that the Patrick St bus priority is in place. It seems to be much faster, according to the figures anyway.

well at least this is a sign of initiatives towards improving public transport encouraging people back on the buses, it's only a drop in the ocean though, no matter how clear Patrick St. is those waiting on buses in Monkstown, Carrigaline, Ballincollig etc will still be waiting...

Mardyke

People who are inconvenienced or out of pocket due to a bus not showing should report the incident to Bus Eireann head office and also demand a refund for their alternative transport if one was taken.

MrDerp

205 was always a disaster back in my day. The 5 we used to call it. I often stood for an up to an hour in the freezing cold trying to get home from college. A friend told me one day when I was giving out that he constantly saw them passing empty down Western rd in the evenings. And sure enough there was loads of buses at CIT in the evening, so someone was deciding operationally to run them back from town directly via the quickest route with no passengers in the evenings.

Nightmare. I just started walking to and from college and ultimately stopped using buses almost altogether. Regularly walked 60-90 minutes around the city and got to like it.

JupiterKid

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

I'm in Belfast at the moment, and just noticed their brand new Glider buses - similar to Bus Rapid Transit, very high quality and always on time. Seriously impressed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfast_Rapid_Transport

http://www.translink.co.uk/also-on-our-site/Glider/

I wonder can we expect something similar for Cork in the near future?

Belfast, as a city in similar size and population to Cork, has incredibly efficient and user-friendly public transport.

The cost of the underground subway for Dublin could instead be used to improve what we already have - buses, light rail, heavy rail. It is incredibly frustrating to see so much money being spent on this project for just a few stations and again, just Dublin.

Cork's public transport needs a serious overhaul.

Yes, Belfast has a superb new rapid bus transit system and is example of what Cork could and should have if the political will is there. Currently, public transport in the city is completely pathetic. Dublin’s is far better and that’s not saying much!

Just a correction - Belfast and Cork are NOT the same size. Belfast is about three times the size of Cork.

Pablo Escobar

JupiterKid wrote: »

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

I'm in Belfast at the moment, and just noticed their brand new Glider buses - similar to Bus Rapid Transit, very high quality and always on time. Seriously impressed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfast_Rapid_Transport

http://www.translink.co.uk/also-on-our-site/Glider/

I wonder can we expect something similar for Cork in the near future?

Belfast, as a city in similar size and population to Cork, has incredibly efficient and user-friendly public transport.

The cost of the underground subway for Dublin could instead be used to improve what we already have - buses, light rail, heavy rail. It is incredibly frustrating to see so much money being spent on this project for just a few stations and again, just Dublin.

Cork's public transport needs a serious overhaul.

Yes, Belfast has a superb new rapid bus transit system and is example of what Cork could and should have if the political will is there. Currently, public transport in the city is completely pathetic. Dublin’s is far better and that’s not saying much!

Just a correction - Belfast and Cork are NOT the same size. Belfast is about three times the size of Cork.

It's about twice the size in reality. You have to ignore official city boundaries. It's a problem for Cork as it constantly gets the lumped in with smaller cities due to this. The urban and metro areas population sizes show that Belfast is roughly twice as big.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Received an email from Bus Eireann today, they told me by the end of 2019 BE Cork City services should have Leap readers across from the driver also.

Should seriously reduce dwell times at each stop so fingers crossed it goes ahead ASAP.

PS: no plans to introduce Leap 90 to Cork however, which is ridiculous. (90 minutes of free travel per trip, good for changing buses etc)

namloc1980

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Received an email from Bus Eireann today, they told me by the end of 2019 BE Cork City services should have Leap readers across from the driver also.

Should seriously reduce dwell times at each stop so fingers crossed it goes ahead ASAP.

PS: no plans to introduce Leap 90 to Cork however, which is ridiculous. (90 minutes of free travel per trip, good for changing buses etc)

Will only work properly if they remove the pay by cash option and remove stage fares which require driver interaction. Otherwise you'll still have all the cash payers and some leap card users still having to interact with the driver thus causing delays.

TheChizler

namloc1980 wrote: »

Will only work properly if they remove the pay by cash option and remove stage fares which require driver interaction. Otherwise you'll still have all the cash payers and some leap card users still having to interact with the driver thus causing delays.

Some delays is better than all delays.

run_Forrest_run

namloc1980 wrote: »

Will only work properly if they remove the pay by cash option and remove stage fares which require driver interaction. Otherwise you'll still have all the cash payers and some leap card users still having to interact with the driver thus causing delays.

+1 it's a bit laughable a city like Cork still has bus drivers fumbling with coins etc and dealing with passengers, makes Cork look like some rural town of the '80s. Automate the bloody thing and move on.

EnzoScifo

namloc1980 wrote: »

Will only work properly if they remove the pay by cash option and remove stage fares which require driver interaction. Otherwise you'll still have all the cash payers and some leap card users still having to interact with the driver thus causing delays.

All the City routes are the same fare these days.

namloc1980

EnzoScifo wrote: »

All the City routes are the same fare these days.

No they aren't. We have a single zone but they brought in stage fares instead. See this link:

https://about.leapcard.ie/about/fares-discounts

Travel Credit Fares
TFI Leap Card fares are 30% cheaper than cash single tickets on Bus Éireann services in Cork city.

Just Top-Up your card with Travel Credit and pay-as-you-go:

Bus Éireann Cork City TFI Leap Fare
Adult/ Student 0-11 stages
€1.61
Adult/ Student 12+ stages
€1.89

The cash equivalents are €2.30 for stages 0-11 and €2.70 for stages 12+.

EnzoScifo

my bad.

Bus Eireann site is outdated then!

Mardyke

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

+1 it's a bit laughable a city like Cork still has bus drivers fumbling with coins etc and dealing with passengers, makes Cork look like some rural town of the '80s. Automate the bloody thing and move on.

The drivers might like getting theirs hands on cash?

run_Forrest_run

Mardyke wrote: »

The drivers might like getting theirs hands on cash?

well not that I'm accusing anyone of anything illegal but you may be on to something there, I'm sure part of their payment tied in with their contract of employment is handling money etc and the responsibility that goes with it. Now take that role away and they may not be in a stronger position for wage increases etc. I'd say the unions mightn't like it.

flexcon

A family member works for a big US company on the northside.

They were told yesterday that they are getting their own private Bus route since the 202 bus was so unreliable and chaotic. I actually remember him saying this to myself last year, so it's been going on a while it seems.

not sure on the details how that would work, but if that company has its employees choosing the private bus over the 202 - then you'd think that could be a huge loss on annual leap card revenue.

run_Forrest_run

flexcon wrote: »

A family member works for a big US company on the northside.

They were told yesterday that they are getting their own private Bus route since the 202 bus was so unreliable and chaotic. I actually remember him saying this to myself last year, so it's been going on a while it seems.

not sure on the details how that would work, but if that company has its employees choosing the private bus over the 202 - then you'd think that could be a huge loss on annual leap card revenue.

fair play to the 'big US company' for providing this and tough shít for Bus Eireann.

Padraig Mor

flexcon wrote: »

A family member works for a big US company on the northside.

They were told yesterday that they are getting their own private Bus route since the 202 bus was so unreliable and chaotic. I actually remember him saying this to myself last year, so it's been going on a while it seems.

not sure on the details how that would work, but if that company has its employees choosing the private bus over the 202 - then you'd think that could be a huge loss on annual leap card revenue.

And yet you'll still have the usual suspects on here screaming at car drivers that they should be using our wonderful public transport network instead.....

opus

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

fair play to the 'big US company' for providing this and tough shít for Bus Eireann.

EMC & VMware have been doing this for years to/from Ballincollig & Ovens. It might be up to three buses now to cater for demand.

namloc1980

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

fair play to the 'big US company' for providing this and tough shít for Bus Eireann.

It's a PSO route so the tough shít is ultimately on the the taxpayer if fare paying revenue declines.

j8wk2feszrnpao

namloc1980 wrote: »

It's a PSO route so the tough shít is ultimately on the the taxpayer if fare paying revenue declines.

Ask the taxpayers in the big US company if they feel it's tough shít on them.
I worked there once, suffered the terrible service; happy for the workers/tax-payers that they may now get a reliable service.

Captainsatnav

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

I'm in Belfast at the moment, and just noticed their brand new Glider buses - similar to Bus Rapid Transit, very high quality and always on time. Seriously impressed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfast_Rapid_Transport

http://www.translink.co.uk/also-on-our-site/Glider/

I wonder can we expect something similar for Cork in the near future?

Belfast, as a city in similar size and population to Cork, has incredibly efficient and user-friendly public transport.

The cost of the underground subway for Dublin could instead be used to improve what we already have - buses, light rail, heavy rail. It is incredibly frustrating to see so much money being spent on this project for just a few stations and again, just Dublin.

Cork's public transport needs a serious overhaul.

Ah Belfast has a population of about 800k I believe...

snotboogie

Captainsatnav wrote: »

Ah Belfast has a population of about 800k I believe...

It does in it's bollox, the urban area is about 450k, the Cork urban area is less than half the size at 210k

namloc1980

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Ask the taxpayers in the big US company if they feel it's tough shít on them.
I worked there once, suffered the terrible service; happy for the workers/tax-payers that they may now get a reliable service.

I'm sure they are delighted but you've missed the point of the post.

marno21

Comparing Cork and Belfast is not a worthwhile exercise. Belfast and Cork have had vastly different histories over the past 50 years, and also into the next few. No company in their right mind would invest in Belfast at present.

run_Forrest_run

namloc1980 wrote: »

It's a PSO route so the tough shít is ultimately on the the taxpayer if fare paying revenue declines.

so scrap this PSO then, clearly Bus Eireann aren't doing their job.

namloc1980

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

so scrap this PSO then, clearly Bus Eireann aren't doing their job.

Scrap the bus to Knocka? Interesting thought.

j8wk2feszrnpao

namloc1980 wrote: »

I'm sure they are delighted but you've missed the point of the post.

No I didn't. You did.

namloc1980

munstermagic11 wrote: »

No I didn't. You did.

No. You definitely did. :pac:

thejuggler

Brings back memories of Charlie Wolf's late night talkshow in the early years of RedFM where he used to play what he dubbed the 'knocknaheeny bus song' on a daily basis - essentially a recording of the wheels on the bus with a lot of added breaking glass sound effects. Wasn't there a period where the 202 was suspended after 7pm for fear of vandalism?

run_Forrest_run

thejuggler wrote: »

Brings back memories of Charlie Wolf's late night talkshow in the early years of RedFM where he used to play what he dubbed the 'knocknaheeny bus song' on a daily basis - essentially a recording of the wheels on the bus with a lot of added breaking glass sound effects. Wasn't there a period where the 202 was suspended after 7pm for fear of vandalism?

yep, that was a few years ago but yep, it happened, and rightfully so.

SusieBlue

flexcon wrote: »

A family member works for a big US company on the northside.

They were told yesterday that they are getting their own private Bus route since the 202 bus was so unreliable and chaotic. I actually remember him saying this to myself last year, so it's been going on a while it seems.

not sure on the details how that would work, but if that company has its employees choosing the private bus over the 202 - then you'd think that could be a huge loss on annual leap card revenue.

As someone who has used the 202 daily for the last 2+ years, I can totally back this up. Its an absolute joke of a service, its supposed to be every 10 minutes but it wouldn't be uncommon for a 40 minute wait on a weekday morning.
Its over subscribed, its always packed to the brim going both ways.

Not only is there the big multinational on the North Side, but at the other end of the route you have Abtran, Voxpro, City Gate and Mahon Point.

In the middle you have all the people commuting to work in the city center, as well as all the secondary school kids and colleges.

Its pretty much non functional at the moment. Even a two minute delay at any point is critical. It cannot be relied upon and I'm routinely late for work because of it.

end of the road

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

Listen they can't even get some of the hopeless bitter drivers to turn on the Real Time information tracker in the current buses they are driving, forget these shiny plans and reports and just get the basics working and then we can see where things stand.

Public transport in Cork: A joke of a system, nothing will change until you change the mindset of the unions and the workers.

given the unions don't make any decisians or run the company, then they have nothing to do with how an individual driver behaves. if anyone is concerned by a driver's behaviour, then report it to the company and follow it up.

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

To change the mindset you have to convince the commuting public that they can rely on public transport and then they will begin to leave their cars at home.

If people have repeatedly been left stranded waiting for a bus, making them late for work etc then don't expect them to easily change their mindset.

or just implement a congestion charge and force them out of their cars. lots and lots of cars is no longer sustainible or cost effective to cater for.

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

well not that I'm accusing anyone of anything illegal but you may be on to something there, I'm sure part of their payment tied in with their contract of employment is handling money etc and the responsibility that goes with it. Now take that role away and they may not be in a stronger position for wage increases etc. I'd say the unions mightn't like it.

handling money has nothing to do with wage increases. if they want wage increases they have plenty of ways to leverage them, handling cash isn't one. given the non-handling of cash would be much much safer for drivers then the union most certainly isn't going to oppose the removal of that role.

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

so scrap this PSO then, clearly Bus Eireann aren't doing their job.

that would leave people without a service altogether, which would achieve absolutely nothing apart from putting more cars on the road. improving the service, employing management down there who will actually manage, is the better value option.

end of the road

Padraig Mor wrote: »

What a pile of crap. Perhaps you need to re-read my post? Public transport sucks because it is essentially a social welfare payment to lazy, antisocial bus / train drivers. These people bear a serious grudge against their customers and, I have little doubt, delight in causing disruption to commuters. Make the service reliable and people will use it - why would they not? The problem currently is that it cannot be relied upon in any fashion. You may blame cars on the road for this as much as you like - and it is no doubt one cause - but the elephant in the room is the drivers, who will not provide a proper service no matter how much money is thrown at them.

FYI I had a taxsaver ticket two separate years and still resorted to driving much of the time as public transport was so useless - and it's gotten a hell of a lot worse since then, especially the buses.

it is neither, essentially or definitely, a "social welfare payment to lazy, antisocial bus / train drivers" . and unless you know every single train or bus driver, your comments about them are nothing more then generalised, inaccurate, and ill informed rants. are there bad drivers, absolutely. are they all the same, no they aren't.
if the drivers are not providing the service, then perhapse if enough complain so that the management are left with no option but to actually do their job, then perhapse people will get somewhere.

j8wk2feszrnpao

end of the road wrote: »

if the drivers are not providing the service, then perhapse if enough complain so that the management are left with no option but to actually do their job, then perhapse people will get somewhere.

Management are as protected as the drivers.
Unfortunately Bus Eireann is not implemented to put the customer first.

end of the road

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Management are as protected as the drivers.
Unfortunately Bus Eireann is not implemented to put the customer first.

bus eireann (CIE at the time) was implemented to operate a basic public transport service, and grudgingly at that. the politicians weren't interested in that system being of good quality, just as long as it existed.
if bus eireann management are protected, then they will be the only ones protected in that company, and you will need to (depending on what political party you vote for) reconsider that vote.

j8wk2feszrnpao

end of the road wrote: »

bus eireann (CIE at the time) was implemented to operate a basic public transport service, and grudgingly at that. the politicians weren't interested in that system being of good quality, just as long as it existed.
if bus eireann management are protected, then they will be the only ones protected in that company, and you will need to (depending on what political party you vote for) reconsider that vote.

Which party have plans to transform Bus Eireann, changing the system from top down? And which party will live up to their waffle when promising it?
Management are protected, as are the drivers; the Unions see to that.