Gallstones

davidjtaylor

This is a question for Tar.Aldarion really. In a couple of your posts, you've mentioned gallstones as being one of the consequences of excessive animal consumption.

Do you have links to peer-reviewed papers with evidence of this? I ask because a friend has just been diagnosed with gallstones. She's on meds. for them but obviously they only tackles symptoms, not causes and I'd like to pass information to her.

gozunda

My apologies for cutting in but I was actually reading about this last week.

Tbh it looks like the jury is out on this atm.
From this ...

Some older, small studies have found a lower risk of gallstones in vegetarian women (1, 2) than in non-vegetarian women, or no significant difference in gallstone prevalence in vegetarian men and women compared to meat eaters

https://veganhealth.org/gallstone-disease-in-vegetarians/

To this!

There is a highly significant association of increased BMI with risk of symptomatic gallstone disease. After adjusting for BMI, there is a small but statistically significant positive association between vegetarian diet and symptomatic gallstone disease.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28272400/

In most studies however the main risk factors for developing gallstones appear to include :
"being female (disputed), older age, a family history, obesity, rapid weight loss, and having a low fiber diet."


Interestingly even cattle get gallstones. Cattle gallstones are In fact quite valuable and are used in Chinese medicine under the belief they can treat hepatitis and other liver and heart-related diseases!

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/valuable-cattle-gallstones-in-toowoomba-stolen-and-recovered-20150527-ghafs0.html

Tar.Aldarion

I think you may have the wrong person, I don't remember discussing gall stones. I know that a high cholesterol diet is a risk factor for gall stones and cholesterol does not exist in a plant based diet, there are many factors though. The amount of cholesterol in your bile and in your blood are separate risk factors, things like saturated fat and trans fat can raise cholesterol also. It's also worth nothing there are other things like being overweight, not exercising and so on. I'd also like to point out that eating cholesterol increases it logarithmically, not linearly, which is why any of it at all in your diet affects your levels, whereas if you are eating it already and eat more, there is not as much of an impact as it's already being affected.

TheFortField

David, I have massive sympathy for anyone who has gallbladder issues having being hospitalised myself with this problem two years ago. I spent 28 hours in labour once and I can honestly say it wasn't as painful as gallstones.

I can't give you the medical or scientific research papers you're looking for but it might interest you to know that my gallbladder issues were triggered by eating avocados. In the six weeks or so before I was hospitalised I was eating lots of salads, lashings of olive oil and avocado (which is very high in fat) was my favourite food. I had it every day. I would also have been eating lots of seeds and nuts.

I became so ill, eating became torture so I lost over two stone in a couple of weeks. I was treated with Nexium (can't remember the dose but it was high enough) for about fours months and I attended an acupuncturist weekly for the first six weeks and fortnightly for six months for pain relief. For six months I was on an extremely bland diet, eliminating as much fat as possible - I basically lived on porridge and vegetable/fruit juices, which was truly awful but it worked, it allowed my gallbladder and stomach time to recover. I gradually re-introduced normal foods again and I have never have had an issue since but my days of eating an avocado a day are over. I suppose what I've learned is that I need to take a common sense approach to fat, even plant-based fats as they don't agree with me.

I wish your friend well, I hope she gets some relief soon.

davidjtaylor

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I think you may have the wrong person, I don't remember discussing gall stones.

I did a search. 2005! Sorry, I never noticed the posting dates. No wonder you can't remember.

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Although the beef industry accepts and has stated that vegetarianism is a healthier option, it is only because people abuse the amount of meat they eat.The correlation between meat consumption and a wide range of degenerative diseases is well founded by health institutions and includes;
Osteoporosis, Kidney Stones and Gallstones, Diabetes , Multiple Sclerosis, Arthritis, Gum disease, Acne. Aggravated by animal food as well as cancer.
What kills most people in the developed world....heart problems relaterd to meat.
Simply put, not only do people eat too much meat at the moment, they eat way too much to be healthy and will have a shorter life because of it.

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Disease Inducing. The correlation between meat consumption and a wide range of degenerative diseases is well founded and includes.....

Osteoporosis

Kidney Stones and Gallstones

Diabetes

Multiple Sclerosis

Arthritis

Gum disease

Acne. Aggravated by animal food.

Obesity. Studies confirm that vegetarians tend to be thinner than meat eaters. Obesity is considered by doctors to be a disease within itself.

Intestinal Toxemia. The condition of the intestinal flora is critical to overall health. Animal products putrefy the colon.

gozunda

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I think you may have the wrong person, I don't remember discussing gall stones. I know that a high cholesterol diet is a risk factor for gall stones and cholesterol does not exist in a plant based diet, there are many factors though. The amount of cholesterol in your bile and in your blood are separate risk factors, things like saturated fat and trans fat can raise cholesterol also. It's also worth nothing there are other things like being overweight, not exercising and so on. I'd also like to point out that eating cholesterol increases it logarithmically, not linearly, which is why any of it at all in your diet affects your levels, whereas if you are eating it already and eat more, there is not as much of an impact as it's already being affected.

Saturated fat however has been linked to gallstones in humans*. And plant based / vegan foodstuffs like coconut oil / fat can contain up to twice the amount of saturated fat as lard.

Some studies have shown that those not eating enough fibre are prone to developing the condition. So a vegan diet or any other diet high in processed foods would also be indicated as at risk in this regard.

https://www.livestrong.com/article/519649-coconut-oil-the-gallbladder/

gozunda

davidjtaylor wrote: »

I did a search. 2005! Sorry, I never noticed the posting dates. No wonder you can't remember.

That's a lot of stuff there with some the same? Unfortunately I can't see sources for those statements. Also there appears to be no differentiation between meats types, white meats, red meats and processed meats for example? All of which are significantly different with regard to things like levels of dietary cholesterol etc

TheFortField

I should have mentioned this before....

When I had gallbladder issues the consultant treating me recommended that I add a couple of spoons of Apple Cider Vinegar to a bottle of water and drink it throughout the day. I found it very helpful.

davidjtaylor

TheFortField wrote: »

I should have mentioned this before....

When I had gallbladder issues the consultant treating me recommended that I add a couple of spoons of Apple Cider Vinegar to a bottle of water and drink it throughout the day. I found it very helpful.

Thanks. I've passed that onto my friend. She's got some ACV capsules but it's possible the more, the better.