Would HR know if I am being managed out?

cbmonstra

Hello,

Looking for advice, as I feel I might be being "managed out" of my current role.

I work for a large financial company, and lately have been effectively ignored by my direct manager. No acknowledgement of my contributions or the work I am doing.

I admit that I was a bit cold with my manger a while back, due to being excluded from a work night out that they organised. Other than that though, I have been doing everything required in my role as normal, and more than required at times.

I have not received any feedback, positive or negative, and while other team members are acknowledged, I am practically ignored.

I am thinking about going to HR to ask if they know of any reason for this, or if they are aware of my being managed out. Is this a good idea? Or am I just inviting trouble by going to them?

Any advice appreciated, thank you.

OMM 0000

If I understand correctly, you were a dick to your manager, and now your manager is avoiding you?

Perhaps you should apologise to your manager. Or have a chat with them.

Basically repair your relationship with them.

Wanderer2010

In most cases HR are the ones signing your death warrant.

duffman13

Even if you are being managed out it's very naive to think HR will tell you this. Are you on a Performance Improvement Plan, if not then your a good way away from being "managed out" if you are there more than a year

cbmonstra

OMM 0000 wrote: »

If I understand correctly, you were a dick to your manager, and now your manager is avoiding you?

Perhaps you should apologise to your manager. Or have a chat with them.

Basically repair your relationship with them.

Actually, no I wasn't. I am always civil and professional in all my dealings with them. I just chose not to engage in small talk and "banter" after being excluded from a night out that they organised. I never ignored them, or behaved unprofessionally in any way.

cbmonstra

duffman13 wrote: »

Even if you are being managed out it's very naive to think HR will tell you this. Are you on a Performance Improvement Plan, if not then your a good way away from being "managed out" if you are there more than a year

I've been in the role for over 3 years. No, I'm not on a PIP or had any feedback regarding my performance to date.

I was posting to check if it's a good idea to ask HR the question, I'm sensing the consensus is no, so thanks for all the replies so far.

terrydel

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

In most cases HR are the ones signing your death warrant.

Staff so often confuse HR with people who are there to help them.
HR are in the pocket of management and do their bidding, if you want help join a union.

Wanderer2010

terrydel wrote: »

Staff so often confuse HR with people who are there to help them.
HR are in the pocket of management and do their bidding, if you want help join a union.

Exactly. HR exists soley to ensure the company is following all the employment laws to the letter and that bullying managers who are too stupid or wicked to change their ways can be protected at all costs. A union is the only way to go for protection in work. Even a small union is better then none.

_Brian

Glad to see people realising the role of HR, it’s often misunderstood.

I’d say talk to your manager.

Depending on the company either ask for anchat or ask for a proper 1:1 meeting.

Ask for feedback on your performance and perhaps direction if it’s not up to standard.

I can’t see how your being “managed out”. But if you feel it’s heading that way make sure you document your successes carefully. If you feel your slipping on any area then focus on covering the gap.

I think this is as someone mentioned earlier your boss has probably noticed you pulling back on “banter” as you put it. Maybe he thinks you are unhappy or something, not being included might have been an oversight and he may even not realise you weren’t included.

It was a bit childish the way you behaved over not being asked out. It’s like kids in third class and a birthday party the way you describe it. Work is work, not everyone will like you and that’s ok, but sulking because your not invited out is likely to get a person the reputation of being a knob, and nobody likes a knob.

OMM 0000

cbmonstra wrote: »

Actually, no I wasn't. I am always civil and professional in all my dealings with them.

You just told us you used to act cold to your manager because you were sulking you didn't get invited to a night out. That isn't professional.

Take responsibility for your actions and maybe the situation will make more sense to you.

I've been a manager a long time and I'm never surprised by how often people are in denial of their poor behaviour / work.

IITYWYBMAD

OMM 0000 wrote: »

You just told us you used to act cold to your manager because you were sulking you didn't get invited to a night out. That isn't professional.

Take responsibility for your actions and maybe the situation will make more sense to you.

I've been a manager a long time and I'm never surprised by how often people are in denial of their poor behaviour / work.

The OP said that they had been "a bit cold with my manger a while back".

This is not a situation where the OP needs to "take responsibility for" his/her actions. This is where a competent manager needs to step up and find out what is going on with this individual.

As somebody who was (and is) in a senior management role for many years, I recognise that staff and employees often have "off" days. It is MY responsibility to ensure that my staff work in an environment whereby their professional and mental health are primary. In the OP's situation, the manager (who is paid to manage) should approach the OP and find out what the issue is and how this can be resolved, in a professional manner. Employees often misunderstand one thing for another, when it comes to staff matters, and there could be a very simple explanation for this apparent slight.

I would have serious misgivings with any of my junior managers, if they arrived at a management meeting and implied that a member of staff was "acting the dick" and they were awaiting an apology.

skallywag

cbmonstra wrote: »

...due to being excluded from a work night out that they organised...

When you say 'work night out', do you mean that the full project team / group were all taken out in a work function type capacity, or was it the case that it was just some folks who worked together heading out socially off their own bat and coin?

OMM 0000

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

The OP said that they had been "a bit cold with my manger a while back".

This is not a situation where the OP needs to "take responsibility for" his/her actions. This is where a competent manager needs to step up and find out what is going on with this individual.

As somebody who was (and is) in a senior management role for many years, I recognise that staff and employees often have "off" days. It is MY responsibility to ensure that my staff work in an environment whereby their professional and mental health are primary. In the OP's situation, the manager (who is paid to manage) should approach the OP and find out what the issue is and how this can be resolved, in a professional manner. Employees often misunderstand one thing for another, when it comes to staff matters, and there could be a very simple explanation for this apparent slight.

I would have serious misgivings with any of my junior managers, if they arrived at a management meeting and implied that a member of staff was "acting the dick" and they were awaiting an apology.

We're only getting her side of the story.

Also remember her team didn't invite her to the work night out.

It seems everyone has a problem with her.

She needs to be honest with herself if she wants to make progress.

IITYWYBMAD

OMM 0000 wrote: »

We're only getting her side of the story.

Also remember her team didn't invite her to the work night out.

It seems everyone has a problem with her.

She needs to be honest with herself if she wants to make progress.

I think it's important to look at what the OP said, and not blow it out of proportion. Nowhere in the OP do I see reference to where her team did not invite her out. In fact, there is no reference to who was the organiser, or what this may have been.

On the face of it, it could be deduced that this was some social occasion that she was excluded from. We have no idea why, or who was the organiser.

So, your statement that "It seems everyone has a problem with her." is presumptuous, inflammatory and without merit.

You also seem to be focusing on the issue, as opposed to looking for a solution (a basic tenet of management) and your focus in trying to inflame and over exaggerate the issue, is not a trait that most would expect to find in a person who claims to be "a manager a long time".

OP, this issue needs to be addressed head-on. I would suggest that you arrange a meeting with your manager, talk through the issue(s), and take it from there. Do not listen to the noise. Address the issue, and move on.

CruelCoin

OMM 0000 wrote: »

We're only getting her side of the story.

Also remember her team didn't invite her to the work night out.

It seems everyone has a problem with her.

She needs to be honest with herself if she wants to make progress.

"If everyone else is an asshole, you are the asshole."

If you're still around to read this OP, i would suggest trying to engage with your teammates, and not hold grudges. You may not have been invited this time, but prove yourself to be someone they'd want to have around them in their free time, then that can change.

cbmonstra

skallywag wrote: »

When you say 'work night out', do you mean that the full project team / group were all taken out in a work function type capacity, or was it the case that it was just some folks who worked together heading out socially off their own bat and coin?

It is an outing with all members of the team, just our team, no other departments included.

They are leaving the office early to go to an event. Tickets were bought for all team members, except myself.

I was not asked if I was interested in going at any point.

cbmonstra

CruelCoin wrote: »

"If everyone else is an asshole, you are the asshole."

If you're still around to read this OP, i would suggest trying to engage with your teammates, and not hold grudges. You may not have been invited this time, but prove yourself to be someone they'd want to have around them in their free time, then that can change.

I get on well with my teammates, and don't have any grudges. We gel very well as a team, and there's no issues there.


It is just my manager who appears to be excluding me, and I was wondering if I should go to HR about it. I have decided not to as per the advice on the thread.

bullpost

cbmonstra wrote: »

It is an outing with all members of the team, just our team, no other departments included.

They are leaving the office early to go to an event. Tickets were bought for all team members, except myself.

I was not asked if I was interested in going at any point.

If not a simple oversight, could be construed as bullying?

OMM 0000

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

I think it's important to look at what the OP said, and not blow it out of proportion. Nowhere in the OP do I see reference to where her team did not invite her out. In fact, there is no reference to who was the organiser, or what this may have been.

She used the word "they".

Of course the problem needs to be solved, but like all these situations, we are only hearing her side of the story, and apparently she sees nothing wrong with being "cold" to people, so if I had to bet, I am going to say the problem is her.

It's her life, she can do what she wants.

aroundthehouse

They cant manage you out if you did nothing wrong and HR would need to thread carefully there, I would discuss it externally if it continues, also make sure to document everything in case you need to call upon it in the future

cbmonstra

OMM 0000 wrote: »

She used the word "they".

Of course the problem needs to be solved, but like all these situations, we are only hearing her side of the story, and apparently she sees nothing wrong with being "cold" to people, so if I had to bet, I am going to say the problem is her.

It's her life, she can do what she wants.

I used the word "they" in an attempt to protect my identity and not reveal the gender of my manager.

In this case, I was just referring to the manager, not the team as a whole. As I said, I get on well with everyone and have remained civil and professional with my manager, albeit pulling back on the previous friendliness we had up to this point.

IITYWYBMAD

OMM 0000 wrote: »

She used the word "they".

Of course the problem needs to be solved, but like all these situations, we are only hearing her side of the story, and apparently she sees nothing wrong with being "cold" to people, so if I had to bet, I am going to say the problem is her.

It's her life, she can do what she wants.

I think you got your answer to the great mystery of the use of the word "they" by the OP above.......

Of course we are only hearing one side of the story, that's how boards like this work...

As I've said previously here OP, there's no future in the "blame game", and finding a solution (should you want that) is best, if you want to carry on in this employment. Go talk to this manager, even if your head is telling you not to. Talk it out, and move on.

MintyMagnum

cbmonstra wrote: »

It is an outing with all members of the team, just our team, no other departments included.

They are leaving the office early to go to an event. Tickets were bought for all team members, except myself.

I was not asked if I was interested in going at any point.

Have none of the team members remarked why you're not going?

skallywag

cbmonstra wrote: »

It is an outing with all members of the team, just our team, no other departments included.

They are leaving the office early to go to an event. Tickets were bought for all team members, except myself.

I was not asked if I was interested in going at any point.

That sounds strange.

How were things up until then? Were you getting the feeling that you were getting on well with the rest of the team and in particular your boss?

Personally I would not go to HR, the best route forward here is to have a short chat with your boss in private and ask directly why you have been excluded. It's a perfectly reasonable question. Anyone would feel slighted in such a circumstance, I can fully understand your feelings on this.

You write that you have worked for a large financial company for 3 years, but have never had feedback on your performance. I find this very odd. Do you not have a yearly appraisal discussion, etc.? I cannot see how a large company would not have this ...

Tiddlypeeps

cbmonstra wrote: »

It is just my manager who appears to be excluding me, and I was wondering if I should go to HR about it. I have decided not to as per the advice on the thread.

People in the thread are advising not to ask HR if you are being managed out. But you should definitely go to HR about your managers behaviour, leaving you out of a team outing like that is potentially bullying and leaves the company open to being sued for constructive dismissal so HR should be very interested to know if something like that is going on so they can get out ahead of it.

One instances of being left out like that wouldn't likely be classed as bullying, but if that type of behaviour continues then it definitely would be.

Did you ask your manager why you were left out?

qwerty13

There’s something off about this.

You say you get on well with the team, yet no one has mentioned that you weren’t invited on the night out? That just doesn’t fit.

Not getting any feedback / reviews in a financial services company of any size at all is extremely unlikely. These places are ruled by regulations - and HR.

Is the night out something you had previously said that you’d no interest in? Were you sitting waiting to be ‘invited’, whereas it’s a more casual arrangement and people say if they want to go?

You say that you dialed back on previous friendliness with your manager after not being invited. Do you think things were ok between you up to this point? Because if you do, is in not possible that it was a simple mistake, and they’ve no idea why you’re being standoffish with them.

qwerty13

I thought about this: based on the info you’ve said, your reaction to not being specifically invited to a night out is to conclude that you’re being managed out. I think this is a total overreaction.

Do you think you might have similarly overrracted re the night out?

bilbot79

HR are there to make sure that the company can successfully manage people out without getting sued.

DeanAustin

Yeah don’t go to HR to ask if you’re being managed out. If you are, they’d never tell you anyway. These things are usually done under the guise of a PIP with everyone pretending that it’s to make your performance better. That’s seldom the case. If you do end up on one, you’re on the way out the door but HR will never tell you. As someone else correctly said, HR are always there for the company, not the employee.

I wouldnt blame you for being a bit cold with your boss and that happens in business all the time.

However, something does seem off about your story. Not saying that you’re deliberately lying or excluding anything but there is probably another side to this.

By the way, being excluded from one event is not bullying. People throw that phrase around so easily these days and it’s a very, very serious accusation.

Footoo

cbmonstra wrote: »

It is an outing with all members of the team, just our team, no other departments included.

They are leaving the office early to go to an event. Tickets were bought for all team members, except myself.

I was not asked if I was interested in going at any point.

This all sounds very strange. How did this day unfold?

When it was time for them to leave early, did they just ignore you as they were leaving the office? Did you say goodbye to them?

Considering you get on with them, I find it very hard to believe that no one spoke to you about not going at any point, either before or after the event.

Wanderer2010

skallywag wrote: »

That sounds strange.
You write that you have worked for a large financial company for 3 years, but have never had feedback on your performance. I find this very odd. Do you not have a yearly appraisal discussion, etc.? I cannot see how a large company would not have this ...

Just to throw in here- lots of big companies neglect the yearly performance chat and even more so the longer you are there. Being a large company and regulated heavily doesn't necessarily mean you are going to be monitored closely. It all boils down to culture.

_Brian

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Just to throw in here- lots of big companies neglect the yearly performance chat and even more so the longer you are there. Being a large company and regulated heavily doesn't necessarily mean you are going to be monitored closely. It all boils down to culture.

Very true.
But managers handing out bad reviews are pure fools if they don’t have a water tight paper trail, I would always have documented meetings with people getting a bad review.
Sets the stage of what is coming and of course opportunities to improve before year end.

You can’t just spring anbad review on someone not telling them during the year that they are heading towards it.

That is a slam dunk at being overturned and so undermines the credibility of the manager if their decisions are being overturned.

ongarboy

OP, as others have stated, don't go to HR but please do schedule a meeting with your manager asking to discuss your performance and "how you're getting on" I've done same with my manager on an ad hoc basis and they've also initiated same with me periodically. You can then use the opportunity either immediately or after you've discussed recent accomplishments, challenges with others or tasks etc, the topic of whether there is any issue between the two of you. Be honest and admit you sense a chill between the two of you and would like to understand where it stemmed from. You can ask them to prove that there is no such issue from their side or else they may explain if there is indeed an issue. You should outline your observations from witnessing your colleagues getting repeated praise but note you never do. Ask for the reason why, even if the answer may not be favorable to you. Finally if you need to, ask why you weren't invited to the social do if you feel you definitely should've been. No decent manager would exclude an individual team member that way unless it was an honest oversight. Give them the chance to explain even if it shames them into acknowledging it was a poor move on their part.

I've had ongoing tensions immediately evaporate from these meetings previously as I and my manager aired our grievances and realised often that it was down to misunderstandings. Sometimes it was down to different styles of work and communications and once we both laid out where we were coming from, we were able to acknowledge and respect our differing viewpoints.

OP, please don't let this fester on unnecessarily by not approaching your manager. If they haven't picked up on or approached you about this, they may very well not be a competent manager but why don't you take the initiative and be the bigger person here?

Eoin

bilbot79 wrote: »

HR are there to make sure that the company can successfully manage people out without getting sued.

And also protect the company from legal action by current employees - which often means they'll give a line manager a bollocking behind the scenes if the HR person is doing their job properly, and the manager isn't.