A fair shake

Sassygirl1999

When will women be equal to men?
In 74 countries, things have gotten worse economically since last year, according to the Global Gender Gap study and women have born the brunt

seamus

This will go down well

amcalester

seamus wrote: »

This will go down well

Unlike those women.

Am I right?

corner of hells

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

When will women be equal to men?
In 74 countries, things have gotten worse economically since last year, according to the Global Gender Gap study and women have born the brunt

I'll ask herself when she finishes making my sammich.

Sonics2k

After reading the OP's post history, I'm just going to nope out of this one.

Kintarō Hattori

Well you're all equal in my eyes so that's a start right there.

The J Stands for Jay

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

When will women be equal to men?
In 74 countries, things have gotten worse economically since last year, according to the Global Gender Gap study and women have born the brunt

When will men be equal to women?

Star Bingo

Women run the show

Grayson

amcalester wrote: »

Unlike those women.

Am I right?

I've been laughing at that joke for at least 30 seconds.

Gimme A Pound

In the West, women are equal to men.

In the many countries not in the West where women are subjugated, a cultural overhaul is needed and who knows when or if that'll happen.

jiltloop

Brantley Slow Sledgehammer wrote: »

In the West, women are equal to men.

In the many countries not in the West where women are subjugated, a cultural overhaul is needed and who knows when or if that'll happen.

That about sums it up really, and on that note can we close the thread now?

AMKC

Brantley Slow Sledgehammer wrote: »

In the West, women are equal to men.

In the many countries not in the West where women are subjugated, a cultural overhaul is needed and who knows when or if that'll happen.

Actually its still not 100 per cent equal but its getting there. More companies are offering equal pay for both men and women but there is still many that are not. There is a lot of thinks women have and do that if and a man wants to he gets looked down on as been gay or not in line with society as well as sneered or attacked even. Just because a man wants to do or like a certain thing does not mean they are all gay. Straight men can and should be able to as well. So it works both ways. So as another poster above said men are still not equal with women on many things yet either.

Grayson

Brantley Slow Sledgehammer wrote: »

In the West, women are equal to men.

In the many countries not in the West where women are subjugated, a cultural overhaul is needed and who knows when or if that'll happen.

I wouldn't say completely equal. For example poverty affects women differently. Becoming a parent affects women more than men, their careers take a bigger hit. It varies from country to country of course. Places with longer paternal leave experience it less. Even when it comes to pain relief women are disadvantaged. Studies have found that doctors take longer to give pain medication to women than to men (that was a US study so I can't say it affects women here, but you said west so I think it's included).

In the US in particular it's a bit worse. They have no mandatory maternity leave and that's fecking disgraceful.

And if we include Russia (Does Russia count as the west?) it's worse. They actually decriminalised certain forms of domestic abuse very recently.

However, thats not to say that women here face the systematic discrimination that they do in other countries. Although I might point out some failings we have, it's nothing compared to places like Saudi or India. I feel we've made great strides but we still have some smaller bits to finish off.

Gimme A Pound

Becoming a parent causing a woman's career to take a hit - I just can't correlate that with social inequality.

If you have a baby you have to stop working for some time. There's nothing unfair about this.

Women and men are paid the same for the same job - the gender pay gap is misrepresented as an unequal pay rate when it's actually an unequal pay total over a particular period of time, because women are more likely to take time off work for having children, and go part-time.

Grayson

Brantley Slow Sledgehammer wrote: »

Becoming a parent causing a woman's career to take a hit - I just can't correlate that with social inequality.

If you have a baby you have to stop working for some time. There's nothing unfair about this.

Women and men are paid the same for the same job - the gender pay gap is misrepresented as an unequal pay rate when it's actually an unequal pay total over a particular period of time, because women are more likely to take time off work for having children, and go part-time.

If you'd read the next part of what I'd written then maybe you might understand.

Women take X amount of time off. Men take less. therefore women take a greater hit than men when it comes to their careers.
However some countries give men better paternity. That means men and women take off the same, or close, amount of time. This has two benefits.
1) men get to spend more time with the kids.
2) Both men and women take off the same amount of time from work after a birth.

That is more equal than saying that the childrearing is all the womans job and men should go back to work to support the family. Both get to spend that valuable time with the child after birth.

I think it's Finland that is the only country in the world where men spend more time with children than women and it's because they are given every opportunity to do so. In every other country men never get the chance.

jiltloop

Brantley Slow Sledgehammer wrote: »

Becoming a parent causing a woman's career to take a hit - I just can't correlate that with social inequality.

If you have a baby you have to stop working for some time. There's nothing unfair about this.

Women and men are paid the same for the same job - the gender pay gap is misrepresented as an unequal pay rate when it's actually an unequal pay total over a particular period of time, because women are more likely to take time off work for having children, and go part-time.

Agreed, essentially it's a 6-9 month career break. How can one advance when they are not attending work? I would love to get more paternity leave to share the load and the hit on career advancement but it gets a bit tricky when you factor in the necessity for the mother to be present during breast feeding (obviously this can be partially mitigated by expressing milk but that's only really practical for small periods of time).

Taytoland

The instinctive view of many men on women probably won't change which is women are best for cooking, sex and looking after children, unfortunately.

PlaneSpeeking

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

When will women be equal to men?
In 74 countries, things have gotten worse economically since last year, according to the Global Gender Gap study and women have born the brunt

Big swinging spherical hairy objects that usually travel in pairs to that.

More bloody feminist whining - make it stoooop!!!!!!!

PlaneSpeeking

Taytoland wrote: »

The instinctive view of many men on women probably won't change which is women are best for cooking, sex and looking after children, unfortunately.

Crap at two out of three here sadly!

dxhound2005

A woman most likely will have fewer than 10 children. A man could have hundreds of them.

Sassygirl1999

Equality of outcome is all us gals want

facehugger99

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

In 74 countries, things have gotten worse economically since last year, according to the Global Gender Gap study and women have born the brunt

Perhaps they should have used some form of contraception.

gifted

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

Equality of outcome is all us gals want

It always boils down to the come doesn't it???







I'll get my coat lol lol

Sassygirl1999

facehugger99 wrote: »

Perhaps they should have used some form of contraception.

perhaps it should be provided for women free of charge to even up the playing field

Alf Veedersane

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

Equality of outcome is all us gals want

Of course, you all have lovely bottoms.

Sassygirl1999

gifted wrote: »

It always boils down to the come doesn't it???







I'll get my coat lol lol

ill call your taxi

gifted

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

ill call your taxi

You will pay ....obviously...Equality and all that lol lol

Sassygirl1999

gifted wrote: »

You will pay ....obviously...Equality and all that lol lol

I'm not getting the taxi, that's for you

Grayson

Grayson wrote: »

I think it's Finland that is the only country in the world where men spend more time with children than women and it's because they are given every opportunity to do so. In every other country men never get the chance.

It sure as hell isn’t Finland.

Alf Veedersane

JayZeus wrote: »

It sure as hell isn’t Finland.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/12/finland-is-the-only-country-where-children-spend-more-time-with-their-fathers/

Alf Veedersane

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/12/finland-is-the-only-country-where-children-spend-more-time-with-their-fathers/

“The chart below shows that Finland is the only country where a square (which represents men) appears above a circle (representing women), showing the minutes of childcare duties performed each day by both sexes.

But it also shows that both mothers and fathers in Finland spend relatively few hours each day with school-age children, since both are normally working full time. And also that women still do the bulk of the childcare for pre-school children in every country, including Finland.“

If a mother and a father both spend too little time with their kids, but the father spends 8 minutes per day more with their kids than their mother, who wins? Not the kids. But yay for gender equality!

Now, go see how many marriages end in divorce. Then look at suicide rates. Then look at murder count. Average lifespan for men vs women.

The nordics and scandinavia are not even half as good at living the balanced family life as some people like to believe.

Don’t believe the hype. Or an OECD report being used to suggest there’s some perfect system in place in Finland. There isn’t. Fathers can take parental leave if they want it. That’s different alright. As it turns out, they mostly don’t avail of it, because they don’t need/want/wish to take the hit on family income.

gifted

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

I'm not getting the taxi, that's for you

Go on so...I'll pay....as usual ..lol lol

Sassygirl1999

gifted wrote: »

Go on so...I'll pay....as usual ..lol lol[/QUOTE

I do think we have hit a wall in this

Franz Von Peppercorn

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

When will women be equal to men?
In 74 countries, things have gotten worse economically since last year, according to the Global Gender Gap study and women have born the brunt

Never. The future is with conservative societies who have more children.

Fr_Dougal

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

I do think we have hit a wall in this

Women drivers! 😬

Sassygirl1999

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Never. The future is with conservative societies who have more children.

like which country? Russia are declining population wise , China?

verycool

Franz Von Peppercorn

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

like which country? Russia are declining population wise , China?

Africa. The Middle East. India - although India has a chance of liberalisation.

(Russia isn’t that conservative anyway. Nor is China. Both are bastions of liberalism by the standards of Saudi).

Sassygirl1999

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Africa. The Middle East. India - although India has a chance of liberalisation.

(Russia isn’t that conservative anyway. Nor is China. Both are bastions of liberalism by the standards of Saudi).

ROFlCOPTER, all the basket cases.

Look all we want is a fair shake not more misogyny

greenspurs

Well, any more than 3 is a .........

jiltloop

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

ROFlCOPTER, all the basket cases.

Look all we want is a fair shake not more misogyny

In what way do you currently not have a fair shake?

Sassygirl1999

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

Equality of outcome is all us gals want

Except that it's unrealistic, and ultimately would create more inequality.

Equality of opportunity is the best standard for personal development as an individual. Women already experience full legal equality in the workplace. There are social/cultural habits which influence the perception of people due their ideas of the suitability of the genders regarding appropriate work or responsibility, but that's shared among the genders quite equally.. and will take time to change.

Equality isn't the objective. We've had legal equality in the workplace for well over a decade, and while it's known that culture/society takes time to adapt, it wasn't changing quickly enough... so Gender/Diversity quotas were brought in. Which are inherently sexist, since in many cases where they have been brought in, the majority are now female, which is lauded as a success for equality. So "equality" means more women in positions than males.

It's similar where those who have children are placed above those without children. Plenty of reasons why that should happen, but there will always be reasons for any position. It still makes a mockery of "equality".

The simple fact is that genuine equality is unlikely ever to happen, and if it did, most people wouldn't be happy with it. It would remove the focus on the individual, and would need to be enforced at every turn. Hardly compatible with the western view of individual rights and freedoms.

RobbingBandit

Balls in the purse time fellas we's in truble

Sassygirl1999

jiltloop wrote: »

In what way do you currently not have a fair shake?

equality of outcome needs to be part of the next wave of reforms

amcalester

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

equality of outcome needs to be part of the next wave of reforms

Does this mean that if a guy works hard, gets promoted and a raise etc, that a woman also needs to be promoted to the same level?

Or have I misunderstood what you mean mean by equality of outcome?

BrokenArrows

They are be equal in the law but men and women will never be equal in life because we are fundamentally different both physically and emotionally.

Women will always be giving birth and more likely to be staying at home and not working. This will always cause a massive difference.
Men will always be out working trying to provide for the family.

Regardless of how modern society evolves this default scenario will always be true.

You have people who simply wont accept that men and women are different and want equality when equality is impossible.

They complain that top CEO positions are mostly men but they dont complain that building sites are mostly men. Its ok to say that men are more suited to building sites but its not ok to say men are more suited for CEO positions.

Nobody complains that Human Resources is dominated by women.

jiltloop

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

equality of outcome needs to be part of the next wave of reforms

Nice side step, how about answering the question though? That is of course if you have an answer.

Sassygirl1999

jiltloop wrote: »

Nice side step, how about answering the question though? That is of course if you have an answer.

close the gender pay gap as originally in the OP

“A fair shake” - that’s a new one for me.

Sassygirl1999

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

equality of outcome needs to be part of the next wave of reforms

Could you tell me what legal rights, or opportunities in work/education/etc that are currently available to me (male) that you (female) are not eligible for?

Sassygirl1999

amcalester wrote: »

Does this mean that if a guy works hard, gets promoted and a raise etc, that a woman also needs to be promoted to the same level?

Or have I misunderstood what you mean mean by equality of outcome?

quora :
"Equality of outcome is a measure to reach a predetermined quota. In practice that means when you have 10 equally qualified candidates, you pick the one who happens to be born belonging to the cohort of people currently underrepresented in your company. For example, if you have 10 equally qualified candidates, and only 1 of them is female and you need her to meet your quota, that effectively means the woman has a 100% chance of being hired, and the men a 0% chance, purely based on their gender."