Bar license/work arounds

Green&Red

Hey,
We have a venue booked which has no license. It’s up to us to sort it out, what are our options?
Thanks

heretothere

You could provide the alcohol for free maybe? It'd cost a fortune though depending on how many you plan on having

c.p.w.g.w

heretothere wrote: »

You could provide the alcohol for free maybe? It'd cost a fortune though depending on how many you plan on having

Yeah free drink but a "tip"jar and agree a split with your bar tender. Like 80-20 in your favour to recoup cost of booze

bigpink

What does the venue normally do?

heretothere

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Yeah free drink but a "tip"jar and agree a split with your bar tender. Like 80-20 in your favour to recoup cost of booze

For a fundraiser I went to they sold chips where were donations to the club. But were basically just so people could buy drinks! I just wasn't sure how it'd go down at a wedding. Although I don't think I'd be bothered if I had to do that as a guest. Drink would probably be cheaper also.

heretothere

heretothere wrote: »

For a fundraiser I went to they sold chips where were donations to the club. But were basically just so people could buy drinks! I just wasn't sure how it'd go down at a wedding. Although I don't think I'd be bothered if I had to do that as a guest. Drink would probably be cheaper also.

Had to do this at a wedding recently,
They got one of the young lads to sell raffle tickets as tokens.

Lantus

Green&Red wrote:

Hey, We have a venue booked which has no license. It’s up to us to sort it out, what are our options? Thanks

Bring your own. A few people do this. Just stock up at nearest tesco and roll the trolley in.

GingerLily

We hired in a bar and guests paid for drunk. The licence was 150e plus bar staff, maybe another 50/100e. Not much really.

We considered stocking a bar but the logistics seemed too much on top of everything else.

Green&Red

Free bar isn’t an option, 250 people

It’s in Ballinafad house and they’ve only had one wedding there so far, not sure what they did, I’ll check that out. It was a fairly small affair though

Twenty Grand

Sell coasters for a few quid. Free pint with each one.

bigpink

Sounds like a balls having to do that surely a event venue has options
Token bar to avid the laws as above?
Private party need a license?

lazygal

My cousin had some sort of honour system/nominal bar charge for his wedding and by all accounts it didn't work. If you're asking people to celebrate and you don't have a normal bar setup I think you should run a limited free bar and budget accordingly. Beer and white and red and some soft drinks would cover you.

stargazer 68

Op that sounds an awful faff for 250 people - is the venue absolutely worth it? Look at hiring a bar in but if they have no licence is that even possible. Quantities to get in would have me in a spin!

lazygal

And the venue's only had one wedding? Are you sure they can handle a function for 250 people? Why have they put the bar organisation on your shoulders?

Green&Red

lazygal wrote: »

And the venue's only had one wedding? Are you sure they can handle a function for 250 people? Why have they put the bar organisation on your shoulders?

Its Ballinafad house, they were on "the great house revival" on RTE back in May
House has only just been refurbished but its intended as a wedding venue, we're just one of the first. They are literally just providing the house, we arrange everything else, thats the agreement

Dovies wrote: »

Op that sounds an awful faff for 250 people - is the venue absolutely worth it? Look at hiring a bar in but if they have no licence is that even possible. Quantities to get in would have me in a spin!

Absolutely, the place looks amazing

EndaHonesty

Green&Red wrote: »

Hey,
We have a venue booked which has no license. It’s up to us to sort it out, what are our options?
Thanks

An alcohol licence is required for sale & supply so you cannot legally provide drink for a large crowd for free or using any other "work around"

If you want to abide by the licensing laws you require a licenced premises to transfer their licence to your location for the event and sell or supply the alcohol using their services.

A local bar or off-licence may provide that service but if not there are companies who can provide the service. Google "Event Bar Services" for more info.

Green&Red

So where does all this talk of tokens come from?
It seems to be a fairly widely held belief/myth

EndaHonesty

Green&Red wrote: »

So where does all this talk of tokens come from?
It seems to be a fairly widely held belief/myth

It's exactly that, a widely believed myth.
There is no legal way to supply alcohol at an unlicensed venue other than getting a court granted "Occasional Licence" applied to that venue.

I would imagine that your venue is aware of the requirements and would not allow you to run a bar there without the correct licences in place.

If they do not look for written confirmation that all licences are in place then they are putting you and themselves at risk of prosecution.

Without the licences in place you will be running a Shibeen on the night...

GingerLily

A license only cost me an additional 150e, I'm confused why you'd bother with tokens etc. It's not that expensive (in the context of a wedding and the alternatives)

listermint

GingerLily wrote: »

A license only cost me an additional 150e, I'm confused why you'd bother with tokens etc. It's not that expensive (in the context of a wedding and the alternatives)

Isnt that an extension ?

GingerLily

listermint wrote: »

Isnt that an extension ?

No a local bar came and severed drinks in our venue.

Green&Red

GingerLily wrote: »

No a local bar came and severed drinks in our venue.

And did the local bar have to close for the day?

_Brian

We attended such a wedding, they served bottled beer, glasses of wine and spirits.
Each given a token value.

You could buy tokens at a separate counter.

It worked quite well but I did wake up the next morning with a bunch of unspent tokens.

Tokens resembled Monopoly money printed at home and chopped up.

GingerLily

Green&Red wrote: »

And did the local bar have to close for the day?

No, they operated as normal AFAIK

They also catered - don't know if that makes a difference?

lazygal

Why would you need a licence for hosting a private event you're providing drinks for?

Doniekp

Green&Red wrote: »

Its Ballinafad house, they were on "the great house revival" on RTE back in May
House has only just been refurbished but its intended as a wedding venue, we're just one of the first. They are literally just providing the house, we arrange everything else, thats the agreement



Absolutely, the place looks amazing

Ya, saw the house on the RTE show.Some amount of work gone into it. Fair play to the Australian couple who bough it and saved it from crumbling down.

EndaHonesty

Green&Red wrote: »

And did the local bar have to close for the day?

GingerLily wrote: »

No, they operated as normal AFAIK

They also catered - don't know if that makes a difference?

The Occasional Licence allows both the existing premises and temporary venue to operate at the same time.

Whether or not the licensee serves food makes no difference.
A meal being served will allow extra hours for the bar but the times for the bar serving will be set when the application is heard in court, in any case.

Riskymove

lazygal wrote: »

Why would you need a licence for hosting a private event you're providing drinks for?

if you want drink sold at the event you need a licence

No need for license if providing booze free or people bring their own etc.

EndaHonesty

lazygal wrote: »

Why would you need a licence for hosting a private event you're providing drinks for?

Riskymove wrote: »

if you want drink sold at the event you need a licence

No need for license if providing booze free or people bring their own etc.

A liquour licence is required for sale & supply of alcohol. Not just sale of alcohol.

So for providing drink for free you need a licence. If people bring their own you don't need a licence.

BrokenArrows

Surely if you are supplying your own booze then it actually wont be that expensive since you are not looking to profit so each drink will be quite cheap.

A few trips up the border for the Wine.

~400 bottles of a mix of Red and White wine. Maybe £5 a bottle will get you a goodish wine when bought in bulk. You might do with less, depends on how much of a session you think the event will be.
~A selection of beers and cider bottles.
~Or as an alternative to bottles you could look into getting kegs but i think kegs will be hassle as then you need someone with a bit of cop on to pour pints.
~A few bottles of whisky/vodka combo and assorted mixers.

You could probably stock it for around £3k.

That + ask for voluntary donations to the bar and it probably wont cost you much.

lazygal

EndaHonesty wrote: »

A liquour licence is required for sale & supply of alcohol. Not just sale of alcohol.

So for providing drink for free you need a licence. If people bring their own you don't need a licence.

But if I host an event in my home and supply drink I never have a licence.

EndaHonesty

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Surely if you are supplying your own booze then it actually wont be that expensive since you are not looking to profit so each drink will be quite cheap.

A few trips up the border for the Wine.

~400 bottles of a mix of Red and White wine. Maybe £5 a bottle will get you a goodish wine when bought in bulk. You might do with less, depends on how much of a session you think the event will be.
~A selection of beers and cider bottles.
~Or as an alternative to bottles you could look into getting kegs but i think kegs will be hassle as then you need someone with a bit of cop on to pour pints.
~A few bottles of whisky/vodka combo and assorted mixers.

You could probably stock it for around £3k.

That + ask for voluntary donations to the bar and it probably wont cost you much.

Legally a licence is required for the situation you describe above.
Whether there is a payment of tokens, money, or even a voluntary contribution a licence is still required.

Once you are supplying the alcohol you need a licence.

EndaHonesty

lazygal wrote: »

But if I host an event in my home and supply drink I never have a licence.

The law can distinguish between that scenario and the one posed here by the OP. You should be able to too...

Riskymove

EndaHonesty wrote: »

The law can distinguish between that scenario and the one posed here by the OP. You should be able to too...

Hi, can you provide a link to the interpretation you are providing

I have looked through the legislation and see only similar to this:

“licence” means a licence for the sale of intoxicating liquor, whether granted on production or without production of a certificate of the Circuit Court or District Court;

EndaHonesty

Riskymove wrote: »

Hi, can you provide a link to the interpretation you are providing

I have looked through the legislation and see only similar to this:

It's not interpretation, the law is clear that it is an offence to sell or supply alcohol without a licence.

Here is a previous Minister of Justice statement on the matter

Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality (Deputy Frances Fitzgerald): The general position is that the sale and supply of intoxicating liquor without an appropriate licence under the Licensing Acts 1833 to 2011 is an offence. And while a bona fide gift may not amount to a sale, section 62 of the Licensing Act 1872 provides that for the purpose of proving that the sale or consumption of intoxicating liquor took place, it is not necessary to show that any money was actually paid if the court is satisfied that a transaction in the nature of a sale took place. Enforcement of licensing law is a matter for An Garda Síochána and suspected cases of offences under this provision should be brought to their attention.

lazygal

"transaction in the nature of a sale" isn't the same as hosts providing alcohol to guests at an event like a wedding as they would for any other occasion when they've chosen to incur all costs.

lazygal

EndaHonesty wrote: »

The law can distinguish between that scenario and the one posed here by the OP. You should be able to too...

So if I have a wedding in a marquee in my garden and supply all alcohol I should have a licence?

EndaHonesty

lazygal wrote: »

"transaction in the nature of a sale" isn't the same as hosts providing alcohol to guests at an event like a wedding as they would for any other occasion when they've chosen to incur all costs.

It's exactly the same as the subject of this thread.

If you would like to debate your scenario I would suggest you create your own thread on that subject.

EndaHonesty

lazygal wrote: »

So if I have a wedding in a marquee in my garden and supply all alcohol I should have a licence?

Your question is off topic, but yes, in the scenario you describe above a licence would be required.

Faith

EndaHonesty wrote: »

It's not interpretation, the law is clear that it is an offence to sell or supply alcohol without a licence.

Here is a previous Minister of Justice statement on the matter

I wonder if the word “and” is the operative word there - as in, sale AND supply. If you supplied without a sale, as you would when hosting an event in your home, that wouldn’t be a sale and supply. If it were worded “sale OR supply”, then it would be clearer. I don’t know how the law could distinguish between me throwing an elaborate party for 100 people and a wedding reception.

It does seem that a token system, or any system that involves paying for the booze in any sense, would be a violation of the law. So, under my interpretation, a free bar or a licensed bar would be okay, but a token or honesty box etc set up wouldn’t be.

Milly33

Tokens work, you arent charging for the drinks as such, you are charging for the tokens. So you go and buy ten tokens these to be whatever ye see fit, cards, raffle tickets whatever you fancy. Then they swop the tokens for a drink..

Milly33

Haha Minister for Justice and Equality in Ireland, even if they are doing their job I dont think the wedding will be high on their list

Alkers

Can you get your guests to BYOB?

listermint

lazygal wrote: »

So if I have a wedding in a marquee in my garden and supply all alcohol I should have a licence?

No it's not true it is his interpretation of the law .

Until such a point that be supply's a proper definition that indicates what he said is factual then take what he is posting with some salt

lazygal

Simona1986 wrote: »

Can you get your guests to BYOB?

I can't see how that would work. Getting guests to lug drinks around before the meal, cooling drinks, opening and serving them all sounds chaotic.

Green&Red

Simona1986 wrote: »

Can you get your guests to BYOB?

It’s not something I’d do

L1011

Milly33 wrote: »

Tokens work, you arent charging for the drinks as such, you are charging for the tokens. So you go and buy ten tokens these to be whatever ye see fit, cards, raffle tickets whatever you fancy. Then they swop the tokens for a drink..

This doesn't work. It is still sale and hence needs a licence

All the workarounds have been tried and failed by now, the licencing laws are 115 years old at core

Milly33

Have been to plenty of weddings that have done it.

L1011

Milly33 wrote: »

Have been to plenty of weddings that have done it.

That doesn't mean its legal - it absolutely isn't.

Shyboy

I'll be honest, I would not feel comfortable asking family and close friends to buy tickets, tokens or whatever on my wedding day.

I have probably been to over a hundred weddings as a guest over the years and never not seen a bar at the venue, either a paying bar or a free bar. I have been to a few at castles or stately home type venues that wouldn't normally have a bar but the venue always had an agreement with a local bar where the couple could arrange for the licence to be transferred for the day and they would supply a paying bar (even free sometimes but rarely).

I personally have never seen a token system at a wedding and I would find it a bit cheeky in my honest opinion...:(

I think the OP should approach a few local bars who will be delighted to transfer their licence and make a nice handy profit on 250 paying guests at a wedding.

n97 mini

EndaHonesty wrote: »

A liquour licence is required for sale & supply of alcohol. Not just sale of alcohol.

So for providing drink for free you need a licence. If people bring their own you don't need a licence.

The licence is for sale AND supply, not sale OR supply.

OP, do you know a publican that can do an occasional licence for you? It'll cost a bit and take some time to get (garda, court) but it's the only way alcohol can be sold to your guests.