Installing Google Wi-Fi

Kintarō Hattori · 07-09-2018 12:47pm

Just cancelled the Yi camera as I found a seller on eBay selling the Nest indoor camera for €151 so with Parcel Motel, I couldn't really say no to that.

bk · 07-09-2018 1:24pm

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Didn't get a chance to mess about with the existing cameras last night as I was shattered (fell asleep on the sofa) so thought I'd take bk's advice and get a Yi camera. Others on Amazon specifically mention that they don't work on a 5Ghz network but there's no mention of that in the below one. It's probably an oversight but it's worth a shot:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/YI-Wireless-Security-Surveillance-Available/product-reviews/B07437XNQH/ref=cm_cr_getr_d_paging_btm_3?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews&pageNumber=3

Just FYI I'm sure it was 2.4GHz too. Though Google Wifi should have no problem with that. Google Wifi is a dual band router, which means it supports both 2.4GHz and 5GHz simultaneously.

It is the older encryption protocols WEP and WPA that they don't support:
https://support.google.com/wifi/answer/6309220?hl=en

Google Wifi doesn't support older protocols like WPA and WEP because they have been deemed unsecure by the Wi-Fi Alliance and industry experts. There are also known and documented attacks against WEP and WPA. WPS, a mechanism that lets a device join a wireless network without entering a password, is also not supported for security reasons.

This is what is likely stopping older and cheaper devices from not working.

robinph wrote: »

Very happy with the couple of Google WiFI points I've got setup, think I need some more though as we have very thick and un-Wifi friendly walls in the house. Had previously got a combination of multiple wifi repeaters and powerline repeaters through the house, but they were very unreliable with signal, caused problems when moving from one room to another or just wouldn't allow some devices to connect to certain combinations of the different signals. The Google Wifi is far simpler to setup and is causing far fewer complaints from the family for me to deal with.

Google Wifi would definitely be a big step up from powerline and repeaters.

But there are also plenty of other options that would give you even better results for the same or less money. As The high horse brigade mentions, Ubiquiti WAP's feed by ethernet would the the ultimate multi room solution.

If you can't do ethernet, then a tri-band wireless mesh system like Netgear Orbi would offer much better performance then a dual band only wireless mesh system like Google Wifi. Tri-band systems use a third, 5GHZ band completely dedicated to the backhaul between the routers. With dual band systems the 5GHz is shared between both the routers and the devices connected to them and that cuts performance in half.

BTW If you can run ethernet to your Google Wifi devices, you will get much better performance then using them as wireless mesh. Well worth looking into for both of you.

robinph · 07-09-2018 1:43pm

The high horse brigade wrote: »

With thick walls why would you not run cables and go with something like a Ubiquiti Unifi solution rather than struggling to get a mesh wireless system working through them. You can have an enterprise setup similar to what's used in hotels for a similar price point to Google WiFi.

https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ap/
https://www.custompcreview.com/reviews/ubiquiti-unifi-ap-ac-pro-wifi-access-point-review/

Because then you have more cables around the place for kids to pull at.

During some recent building work I did get them to drill me a hole through one wall so that I could stick a cable through it, but I then decided it was actually far more hassle to patch the cable together and peg it up and down walls around a fireplace and also incurring the wrath of those who don't like cables upsetting the look of their wallpaper and went for the Google option.

A reason for not using the other system is that, well nobody has heard of them and home users would assume that a system like that would be too expensive so wouldn't bother searching for it. Everyones heard of Google, and their adverts obviously worked on me as did the algorithms that put the adverts in front of me after my searching for various solutions.

ablelocks · 07-09-2018 2:38pm

I'll be getting fibre broadband to the home within the next few months, and had assumed that I'd be getting a mesh network to make full use of it throughout the house - dormer bungalow, c3500 sq ft.

Current broadband is a wireless service, with an ASUS RT-N56u router in an office close to the centre of the house, but at the front. Wifi signal is ok all over, but at the outer rooms it does fall away.

I have ethernet points in some of the rooms upstairs and downstairs.

given what some of ye have said here, would I be better off with an Ubiquiti or ASUS AiMesh type system rather than the Netgear or Google type mesh network?

bk · 07-09-2018 2:45pm

robinph wrote: »

A reason for not using the other system is that, well nobody has heard of them and home users would assume that a system like that would be too expensive so wouldn't bother searching for it. Everyones heard of Google, and their adverts obviously worked on me as did the algorithms that put the adverts in front of me after my searching for various solutions.

No one has ever heard of Netgear Orbi!! The system that wins all the performance awards and gets rave reviews on all the various tech sites and blogs and has featured here on boards over on the bargain alerts forum.

Even a few minutes research would have brought this system up and the benefits of tri-band systems over dual band systems.

The high horse brigade · 07-09-2018 2:45pm

ablelocks wrote: »

I'll be getting fibre broadband to the home within the next few months, and had assumed that I'd be getting a mesh network to make full use of it throughout the house - dormer bungalow, c3500 sq ft.

Current broadband is a wireless service, with an ASUS RT-N56u router in an office close to the centre of the house, but at the front. Wifi signal is ok all over, but at the outer rooms it does fall away.

I have ethernet points in some of the rooms upstairs and downstairs.

given what some of ye have said here, would I be better off with an Ubiquiti or ASUS AiMesh type system rather than the Netgear or Google type mesh network?

If you have Ethernet definitely use that. Ethernet does full duplex where it can send and receive at the same time on different pairs of cable cores. Wireless shares a frequency and is half duplex meaning only one device at a time can either send or receive on that frequency you use for backhaul. Because of this Ethernet will always be better than any wireless no matter what band it's using

bk · 07-09-2018 2:47pm

ablelocks wrote: »

given what some of ye have said here, would I be better off with an Ubiquiti or ASUS AiMesh type system rather than the Netgear or Google type mesh network?

Yes, any ethernet backhauled system would be better.

Though note you can use ethernet with both Google Wifi and Netgear Orbi (double check this one).

Basically ethernet is always better then wireless where it is an option.

Ha Long Bay · 07-09-2018 2:48pm

I have a spare new unit if anyone needs to add one to an existing setup. I purchased a 3 pack originally but they were region locked to US so the 5Ghz channels would not work so had to purchase a single UK region unit to act as the primary.

ablelocks · 07-09-2018 3:07pm

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Ethernet will always be better than any wireless no matter what band it's using

bk wrote: »

Yes, any ethernet backhauled system would be better.

Though note you can use ethernet with both Google Wifi and Netgear Orbi (double check this one).

Basically ethernet is always better then wireless where it is an option.

yes, agreed and I have most of the "fixed" stuff (eg xbox, apple tv, av receiver) all connected to ethernet already.

I will still need to improve the wifi signal in the house though, so while I had done some ltd research on the mesh type network, I hadn't heard of the Ubiquiti. It sounds like it might be a better system for me than the mesh given I have ethernet points in a variety of locations?

bk · 07-09-2018 3:20pm

ablelocks wrote: »

I will still need to improve the wifi signal in the house though, so while I had done some ltd research on the mesh type network, I hadn't heard of the Ubiquiti. It sounds like it might be a better system for me than the mesh given I have ethernet points in a variety of locations?

Yes, if you have ethernet already in place, definitely best to use it.

Ubiquiti WAPs are fantastic, they are enterprise level gear and work extremely well. However they are complicated to set up being aimed at Enterprise instead of home users, so it depends on your skills.

There are plenty of other options to.

TP Link Deco Mesh system. A consumer focused mesh system, that supports ethernet as a backhaul option.

AiMesh looks like a very cool idea and using ethernet to connect two or three routers is an option for that.

Google Wifi is another option, but using ethernet for backhaul rather then wifi.

Netgear Orbi also supports ethernet backhaul.

The high horse brigade · 07-09-2018 3:21pm

ablelocks wrote: »

yes, agreed and I have most of the "fixed" stuff (eg xbox, apple tv, av receiver) all connected to ethernet already.

I will still need to improve the wifi signal in the house though, so while I had done some ltd research on the mesh type network, I hadn't heard of the Ubiquiti. It sounds like it might be a better system for me than the mesh given I have ethernet points in a variety of locations?

Ubiquiti is an affordable enterprise solution that is around much longer than any of these newer mesh systems. It's used lots in hotels, offices etc. I'm actually fitting some in a guest house tomorrow. You plug them in and then push the settings to the devices from the controller you run on a PC. It's dynamic so you can expand your network by adding devices and pushing settings to them. Once they are configured you do not need to have the controller software running but most do for the cool functionality and analytics it gives

robinph · 07-09-2018 3:30pm

bk wrote: »

robinph wrote: »

A reason for not using the other system is that, well nobody has heard of them and home users would assume that a system like that would be too expensive so wouldn't bother searching for it. Everyones heard of Google, and their adverts obviously worked on me as did the algorithms that put the adverts in front of me after my searching for various solutions.

No one has ever heard of Netgear Orbi!! The system that wins all the performance awards and gets rave reviews on all the various tech sites and blogs and has featured here on boards over on the bargain alerts forum.

Even a few minutes research would have brought this system up and the benefits of tri-band systems over dual band systems.

I meant the other system that was linked above. The Netgear system was what I was initially looking at. Saw all the good things about the Netgear, but the Google system won due to cost.

bk · 07-09-2018 3:56pm

robinph wrote: »

I meant the other system that was linked above. The Netgear system was what I was initially looking at. Saw all the good things about the Netgear, but the Google system won due to cost.

Fair enough, but unless you are using ethernet to backhaul Google Wifi, it is a poorer solution and I've often seen Orbi cheaper then Google Wifi during the usual sales.

If it works for you, that is great, fire away. More an FYI for others reading this and perhaps thinking of going down this route.

The high horse brigade · 07-09-2018 3:59pm

robinph wrote: »

I meant the other system that was linked above. The Netgear system was what I was initially looking at. Saw all the good things about the Netgear, but the Google system won due to cost.

Your Google search is broken

crafty fcukers Google

ablelocks · 07-09-2018 4:08pm

bk wrote: »

Yes, if you have ethernet already in place, definitely best to use it.

Ubiquiti WAPs are fantastic, they are enterprise level gear and work extremely well. However they are complicated to set up being aimed at Enterprise instead of home users, so it depends on your skills.

you know the phrase "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing?" that's me.
I'd lean towards this just for the setting up process...

The AIMesh looks good alright and means the current ASUS router i have wouldn't end up in the attic with the 2 or 3 other redundant yokes already up there.

Kintarō Hattori · 08-09-2018 5:36pm

[QUOTE=ablelocks;108019913]you know the phrase "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing?" that's me.
I'd lean towards this just for the setting up process...

The AIMesh looks good alright and means the current ASUS router i have wouldn't end up in the attic with the 2 or 3 other redundant yokes already up there.[/QUOTE]

And that's certainly not me when it comes to networking. While I've ordered a Nest camera I wouldn't mind getting the Vstarcam cameras back up and running if possible. Below is the one we use as a baby monitor (along with a traditional audio monitor):

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Original-VStarcam-Wifi-IP-Camera-720P-Night-Vision-2-Way-Audio-Wireless-Motion-Alarm-Mini-Smart/1267661_32813276193.html

I also have this one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/VStacam-C29S-1080P-Full-HD-Wireless-IP-Camera-CCTV-WiFi-Home-Security-Camera-System-with-iOS/1267661_32758226837.html

I read of someone who was having the same issue and another poster suggested that they install the app on a phone that only supported a 2.4Ghz network or at least let you select which frequency you wanted to be on, as Android used to do in the past.

Does that sound feasible? Or as suggested, is it more likely that IP cameras support a lax security standard which the Google WiFi doesn't support.

Dardania · 08-09-2018 6:28pm

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

[QUOTE=ablelocks;108019913]you know the phrase "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing?" that's me.
I'd lean towards this just for the setting up process...

The AIMesh looks good alright and means the current ASUS router i have wouldn't end up in the attic with the 2 or 3 other redundant yokes already up there.

And that's certainly not me when it comes to networking. While I've ordered a Nest camera I wouldn't mind getting the Vstarcam cameras back up and running if possible. Below is the one we use as a baby monitor (along with a traditional audio monitor):

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Original-VStarcam-Wifi-IP-Camera-720P-Night-Vision-2-Way-Audio-Wireless-Motion-Alarm-Mini-Smart/1267661_32813276193.html

I also have this one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/VStacam-C29S-1080P-Full-HD-Wireless-IP-Camera-CCTV-WiFi-Home-Security-Camera-System-with-iOS/1267661_32758226837.html

I read of someone who was having the same issue and another poster suggested that they install the app on a phone that only supported a 2.4Ghz network or at least let you select which frequency you wanted to be on, as Android used to do in the past.

Does that sound feasible? Or as suggested, is it more likely that IP cameras support a lax security standard which the Google WiFi doesn't support.[/quote]
For the camera to only support a weak security standard that google wifi doesn't would be unlikely. WPA2 (the current encryption for WiFi access points) came out in 2004 - not much has changed in the intervening years. It's only this year that WPA3 was finalised, and google wifi doesn't support it. Your older cameras should work. And with enough twiddling, I don't see why they couldn't.

Kintarō Hattori · 08-09-2018 7:38pm

Any suggestions on what to twiddle and where? I can't see a lot of options available to mess with. Setting it up is quite an automated process and once setup there's not many network options to tweak.

Dardania · 08-09-2018 7:42pm

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Any suggestions on what to twiddle and where? I can't see a lot of options available to mess with. Setting it up is quite an automated process and once setup there's not many network options to tweak.

Can you access the control panel of the camera?

Dardania · 08-09-2018 7:50pm

There's some instructions here: http://www.eye4.so/FAQ/eye4-5.0-en.pdf - I'd suggest getting the app, and resetting it and trying to start again from scratch to add it to the wifi network.

There's something there about waiting 10 seconds while pushing the reset button

do you have an app for it?
Edit: there's something in the manual about having a wifi security code less than 16 characters?

Kintarō Hattori · 09-09-2018 8:11pm

Hallelujah I got the 1080p camera working... though I'm not entirely sure why it worked.
I knew I had a LAN cable lying about so connected the camera into the Google Wi-Fi by that. Once I added the camera I looked around the available options and saw one for Wi-Fi. I input my details, unplugged the LAN cable, rebooted the camera and we were good to go.

The only negative is that the 1080p camera can't tilt down as far as the other so I've had to put it into a less suitable position but it's progress.

Many thanks for all suggestions and help given folks, it's really very much and sincerely appreciated.

Dardania · 09-09-2018 8:26pm

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Hallelujah I got the 1080p camera working... though I'm not entirely sure why it worked.
I knew I had a LAN cable lying about so connected the camera into the Google Wi-Fi by that. Once I added the camera I looked around the available options and saw one for Wi-Fi. I input my details, unplugged the LAN cable, rebooted the camera and we were good to go.

The only negative is that the 1080p camera can't tilt down as far as the other so I've had to put it into a less suitable position but it's progress.

Many thanks for all suggestions and help given folks, it's really very much and sincerely appreciated.

Good stuff! I have a camera similarly setup to check up on my 3 year old daughter at night and it is such a relief for us to be able to check up without waking her. Anything for a bit of sleep!
All the best.

Installing Google Wi-Fi

Comments