Is done deal a no No for buying a fog

whitesheep

Ok so I've done a lot of research and I've finally decided what dog I want.
I've contacted the club and there is no registered owners have dogs for sale. Is it a case of just waiting it out?
There's lots on done deal saying they are IKC registered should I walk a mile?
There's others who have registered done deal account for years are they likely to be genuine.
I just don't want to buy a dog that has been treated poorly.
If it means waiting 6 months I will but I'm wondering is it necessary?
Any other tips?
Thanks Karen

endacl

Haven’t the foggiest.

alroley

I have seen a few reputable breeders advertise on donedeal, but the vast majority are not reputable. A pup being IKC registered means nothing. The breeder should be actively showing their dogs and dogs should have all relevant health testing done.

If the breed club says none right now, you need to wait.

tfitzgerald

They have some lovely dogs in the rescue centres. Look at them online. Any animal welfare groups would have done lovely dogs

.......

Never buy a dog off Done Deal - its riddled with puppy mill dogs.

But on that note - dont BUY a dog. Rescue a dog. Rehome a dog.

whitesheep

....... wrote: »

Never buy a dog off Done Deal - its riddled with puppy mill dogs.

But on that note - dont BUY a dog. Rescue a dog. Rehome a dog.

Thanks but I can't get a rescue dog because I don't have a fenced in garden. I live on 30 acres. Dog will be free to run around those but is secure from the road. I've had dogs before and it's never been a problem

SillyMangoX

Is it one specific breed you're looking for OP? Some people on here may know of reputable breeders. If you're looking for a specific breed from a reputable breeder, be prepared to wait, or to travel. Some may have long waiting lists!

Andy Magic

I got my two dogs through a seller on donedeal who was IKC registered and recommended to me by them, it was a good/positive experience.

Out of interest what breed are you looking for?

screamer

It's all well and good saying take a rescue dog..Some of them are head the balls and if it's a certain breed you're looking for then you likely wont find it in a pound, which is full of cross breeds.

DD has chancers too someone I know bought a pure breed owner said they'd register it for extra she paid and soon as pup was bought owner couldn't be contacted by phone or any other means. Kk has never heard of him.....

So just be careful insist on seeing pups at sellers home.

Knine

As someone who is absolutely inundated with puppy requests at the moment, I can tell you that sometimes you just have to have patience, keep in touch with the Club Rep & remember that we also have often busy lives to live. I can also say that anyone Reputable & with decent quality pups won't have to advertise on DD.

Now that is not to say that you can't get a decent pup there. You can but you need an awful lot of experience in the dog world to do this. It is also a puppy farm paradise. The reason we have so many puppy farms in Ireland is that they have a market.

You would be surprised how often people think we are like Tesco's where you can just supply a puppy on demand.

Akrasia

Be really careful buying puppies on done deal, definitely visit the home of whoever is selling the puppies, see the parents or at least the mother, and where the puppies had been sleeping and kept during the day. Interact with them, see how they behave, do they have toys or things to stimulate them and play with, check them for fleas etc.

We have a Pomeranian who my wife saw advertised on done deal. He is a lovely dog now, really gentle and loyal but when he was a puppy he must have been mistreated because he is very anxious around other dogs and things like sweeping brushes and people he doesn't know and he never plays with balls or toys.

My wife knew that the place she was buying him from wasn't great, but she felt sorry as he was the last puppy in the litter and was getting a bit older and she was worried what would happen to him. She refused to pay the price the guy was looking for but covered the cost of his microchip and vaccinations.

We have bought other dogs from done deal who have been extremely well cared for and turned out to be lovely pets.

whitesheep

We are looking for a caviler king Charles. They are safe with children being my primary reason.

seamus

The King Charles breed is in rag order, you really need to do your homework and talk to a dedicated KC breeder to get a healthy pup. You can expect to pay the bulk of €1,000 for one.

If you go on done deal the dog you get will likely be very unhealthy due to generations of inbreeding, and suffer from physical and mental disabilities as well as life-limiting illnesses. You won't be rescuing a sick dog, you'll be encouraging that puppy farm to keep breeding sick dogs.

If you're absolutely set on a KC and won't rescue one, I suggest you get in touch with their national club to find yourself a proper breeder. http://www.irishcavalierclub.com/

Knine

whitesheep wrote: »

We are looking for a caviler king Charles. They are safe with children being my primary reason.

You definitely to be very careful where you get this breed so you are better off waiting on a Reputable Breeder who health tests the parents & who has the clear eye/heart/ brain Certs to prove it. They are one of the most popular puppy farm dogs.

BTW no dog breed is 100% safe. You need to supervise & make sure the Breeder is reputable & has well socialised puppies. There are lots of other breeds who are also fantastic with children. I know personally in my house one of these dogs would not be a good fit as we are a fairly active family & we prefer longer lived breeds. So make sure you have done plenty of research.

em_cat

OP, your going to get a lot of anecdotal info, meaning personal opinions based on personal experience, but the reality is buying an animal from DD or GT is the same as buying from a third party ie someone who has bought or stolen, and then is selling on. It is an avenue for impulse pet shopping, nothing more and if you truly care about the welfare of your future pet, working or show dog, then you will be prepared to wait.

Also not all rescues require a fenced garden.

cruizer101

alroley wrote: »

IThe breeder should be actively showing their dogs

What relevance is it if they are showing their dogs or not?

em_cat

whitesheep wrote: »

We are looking for a caviler king Charles. They are safe with children being my primary reason.

Please please do not impulse buy a K Cav especially without proof of the relavent health tests, the K Cav is one of the breeds that suffers genetically from DCM, something like a 50/50 chance that develops it. It generally shows up post 2 years so although not something than can be tested like PRA or other diseases, it is something that can be qualified by parentage. This is not something a DD or GT seller will care about.

No one can guarantee that one breed vs another is better with children. That is dependant on how it reared and how you as a parent teach your children. I don’t mean to sound patronising, I just come across so many children who have no idea how to behave around dogs.

Knine

cruizer101 wrote: »

What relevance is it if they are showing their dogs or not?

While it is not essential by any means, most people involved in the Breed Clubs do actually show or at least have an interest in their breeds welfare. They are also more likely to be up to date on the latest health tests for the particular breed. This is also relevant to the non show people who work or compete with their dogs in other disciplines.

Breed Club Reps also do a huge amount of work behind the scenes for their chosen breed. I say this as someone who is heavily involved in several Clubs.

Andy Magic

I would recommend checking dog show entry's website for upcoming shows where King Charles are going to be shown and approach the breed at the show. Best of luck and don't mind all the negative comments on here. Taking on a dog from the shelter isn't for everyone.

em_cat

Andy Magic wrote: »

I would recommend checking dog show entry's website for upcoming shows where King Charles are going to be shown and approach the breed at the show. Best of luck and don't mind all the negative comments on here. Taking on a dog from the shelter isn't for everyone.

No one is saying not to buy from a reputable breeder and you are giving some valuable advice going such as going to shows to speak to breeders.

However there is no denying that FB, IG, DD & GT have contributed to an increased demand of impulse buying of certain types of breeds or designer breeds & that these outlets are simply nothing more than an avenue of suppliers for such.

However not every dog from a rescue or shelter is any less than perfect for someone.

kylith

seamus wrote: »

The King Charles breed is in rag order, you really need to do your homework and talk to a dedicated KC breeder to get a healthy pup. You can expect to pay the bulk of €1,000 for one.

If you go on done deal the dog you get will likely be very unhealthy due to generations of inbreeding, and suffer from physical and mental disabilities as well as life-limiting illnesses. You won't be rescuing a sick dog, you'll be encouraging that puppy farm to keep breeding sick dogs.

If you're absolutely set on a KC and won't rescue one, I suggest you get in touch with their national club to find yourself a proper breeder. http://www.irishcavalierclub.com/

A vet nurse of my acquaintance once told me that by age 4 about 50% of Cavs have heart problems. By age 8 about 90% do.

Cavs are a breed that, like pugs, I would only entertain getting if I had a big pile of money that I wanted to get rid of.

Fakediamond

KC are a delicate breed and not so much a dog for running around with the kids. I would have thought most dogs are kid friendly if they’re socialised with them from puppyhood. Because KC suffer so many illnesses, they can be cranky around kids, or adults!

I know I’m biased, but most terriers are great craic and love being with kids and playing with them. Mongrel terriers are generally healthy too!

kylith

Fakediamond wrote: »

KC are a delicate breed and not so much a dog for running around with the kids. I would have thought most dogs are kid friendly if they’re socialised with them from puppyhood. Because KC suffer so many illnesses, they can be cranky around kids, or adults!

I know I’m biased, but most terriers are great craic and love being with kids and playing with them. Mongrel terriers are generally healthy too!

I would disagree with this. I grew up with a terrier and have had others since and I would not recommend them with children. IME terriers don't have much patience and aren't shy about showing when they've had enough.

Knine

That depends on the terrier, mine are fantastic & although biased much more fun & playful then many toy breeds right into old age which for many is to their late teens. They also won't tire too easy. Lots of my friends who show terriers also have young children. While some specific terrier breeds don't do well with children, there are many that make great pets. Don't tar them all with the same brush.

beertons

We got our king charles from Nearsea's in Wexford. She really does a good job on the pups, they are all mri'd before they leave her house, full line of history goes with the pup too. We will probably go back there again when our nearly 8 year old goes to doggie heaven.

seamus

kylith wrote: »

I would disagree with this. I grew up with a terrier and have had others since and I would not recommend them with children. IME terriers don't have much patience and aren't shy about showing when they've had enough.

Like all dogs, it does depend. My parents got two brother JRT's.

One is excitable as you like, jumps up and down on everyone, is really easy to wind up into a play fight, and when he gets really excited his licking turns to nipping unintentionally. Good fun, but no use around the younger kids. He loves the kids, but he's too boisterous.

His brother is the polar opposite, really chilled out, lazy beast. Always happy to see you, but straight onto his back for belly rubs, no jumping or licking or nipping. Impossible to wind up, he just walks away from you if he's annoyed. So really safe, bombproof in fact, around the younger kids, but he actually doesn't like them. He gets obviously uncomfortable when the small ones approach him and will usually prefer to go sleep in his cage with the door closed, or one of the bedrooms when we land down with our brood.

As a rule, I would tend to agree with you; smaller dogs are more easily scared or hurt by children, so more chance for conflict. Whereas something big like a St Bernard would barely even feel a child falling over and landing on them.

cocker5

whitesheep wrote: »

We are looking for a caviler king Charles. They are safe with children being my primary reason.

Safe with kids? There is no specific breed safe with kids .. any dog can be safe with kids given proper socialization etc

Captain Flaps

Our mongrel terrier who is terribly dog anxious/aggressive will let my 2 year old nephew pull food, treats and toys out of his mouth without getting upset, instead backing off and waiting for it to be tossed back - and he otherwise has no manners. Any breed can be socialised with kids. Staffies and other fighting dogs are among the most child friendly is taken care of properly.

em_cat

I just had a browse on DD for K Cavs and as sorry as I feel for the poor pups being peddled like chattel it’s evident that none are being sold by reputable breeders. The price alone reflects this.

ShaShaBear

Personally, if it's your first time housing a dog together with your kids, I would stay all kinds of away from a pup. That's a disaster waiting to happen when the nipping rolls in. As well as that, I'd be avoiding any and all dogs that are small - all dogs can be great with kids, but generally the problem is actually the children and their rough attitude with the dogs.

I would stay away from tiny breeds, working dogs (collies, labs, GSDs, spaniels) and most terriers.

Choc Chip

Knine wrote: »

That depends on the terrier

I was thinking about this a bit and thought I'd reply since this was bounced today. I've the same type of terrier as knine and while i only have one and she breeds them, mine is almost built for kids (non-shed, easy temperament and tough skin) which I've heard is typical of the breed. I'm just delighted they're not white or they'd probably be puppy-farmed put of recognition.

I also agree with shashabear though. Mine is 5 and i know he's bombproof with kids. My gsd x is not good (She's nervous of them) and our current collie x foster is grand. None are type-typical and if I had kids I'd be far happier getting an older dog that i knew was good with kids. Erm... from a rescue. Not done deal.

Choc Chip

Btw, that's not meant to be pushing a rescue agenda, I've no issue with buying pups from responsible breeders, I just know that I'd be a lot more confident with my terrier or current foster with kids v a potential pup. If i was going for a pup I'd have to be very confident in the breeder.

whitesheep

If one buys a rescue dog are you not buying and ex puppy farm dog? And you'd have the same problems if you got it from a puppy farm? And maybe somehow indirectly helping the puppy farms? I wonder are people quicker to abandon dogs knowing they will be picked up by a rescue centre. Maybe it's a stretch but worth discussion??
Think I'll just wait it out for a reputable breeder to have one available.

em_cat

whitesheep wrote: »

If one buys a rescue dog are you not buying and ex puppy farm dog? And you'd have the same problems if you got it from a puppy farm? And maybe somehow indirectly helping the puppy farms? I wonder are people quicker to abandon dogs knowing they will be picked up by a rescue centre. Maybe it's a stretch but worth discussion??
Think I'll just wait it out for a reputable breeder to have one available.

First and foremost you don’t buy a rescue dog, rescues do ask for rehoming fees to cover the vaccines, spay/neuter, food, any medical treatment and many other things. A lot of rescues are volunteer staffed with charity status but get little to no government funding. So the 120€ being asked for is pittance.

TBH most people who are dedicated to rescue would choose that there wasn’t a need for pounds and rescues.

I’m not against breeding for conservation of a breed, but do not and will not support breeding indiscriminately or breeding for greed.

I have no idea how much a KCav puppy costs but I do know they are one of the most puppy farmed breeds and some very expensive vet bills in later years.

Trasna1

em_cat wrote: »

Please please do not impulse buy a K Cav especially without proof of the relavent health tests, the K Cav is one of the breeds that suffers genetically from DCM, something like a 50/50 chance that develops it. It generally shows up post 2 years so although not something than can be tested like PRA or other diseases, it is something that can be qualified by parentage. This is not something a DD or GT seller will care about.

No one can guarantee that one breed vs another is better with children. That is dependant on how it reared and how you as a parent teach your children. I don’t mean to sound patronising, I just come across so many children who have no idea how to behave around dogs.

The King Charles is so inbred it shouldn't be bred anymore.

Zapperzy

Any vet or nurse will be able to tell you how common heart problems are in cavaliers. It's sad because they're such sweethearts of dogs.

A girl at work was telling me about her cavalier which I think was about 7 or 8, and I asked had he had any issues with his heart yet. Surprisingly he hadn't and she had never heard of this high prevalence of heart conditions in this breed before but I don't think she took me too seriously. She came back to me about 3 months later absolutely devastated because he had been put down because of heart failure, she asked how could I possibly have predicted it.

Edited to add: I'd be nervous of pups around children, too excitable and nippy. We had a rescue terrier, got him at 2 years old. While he never lived with children he was always very gentle with visiting kids. Least with an older dog you know what temperment your getting.

Captain Flaps

whitesheep wrote: »

If one buys a rescue dog are you not buying and ex puppy farm dog? And you'd have the same problems if you got it from a puppy farm? And maybe somehow indirectly helping the puppy farms? I wonder are people quicker to abandon dogs knowing they will be picked up by a rescue centre. Maybe it's a stretch but worth discussion??
Think I'll just wait it out for a reputable breeder to have one available.

If you go onto any rescue site you'll see that most of the dogs are mixed or even undetermined breed. Suggesting people abandon dogs because the rescue will pick it up is silly, if it's surrendered then fair enough but the overwhelming majority of dogs in pounds and rescues are abandoned strays found wandering because the (ex) owner couldn't care less about what happens to them.

whitesheep

I'M back again with one more question. Is there a minimum a puppy farm would sell a dog for. I've seen lots of lovely mixed breed for aroundof a terrier euro100. Does that sounds right?
I've read up loads on puppy farms and they truly are horrible places and the last thing I want is to support them.
I've visited one animal shelter and they won't take me because of my open garden. There was nothing there that was suitable anyway, Is there a way around it? My garden is more than suitable. We've had dogs before no problem.

em_cat

whitesheep wrote: »

I'M back again with one more question. Is there a minimum a puppy farm would sell a dog for. I've seen lots of lovely mixed breed for aroundof a terrier euro100. Does that sounds right?
I've read up loads on puppy farms and they truly are horrible places and the last thing I want is to support them.
I've visited one animal shelter and they won't take me because of my open garden. There was nothing there that was suitable anyway, Is there a way around it? My garden is more than suitable. We've had dogs before no problem.

OP I’m not sure if there is a standard min/max for puppyfarmed. Some charge the rates reputable breeders may charge and some charge what ever someone is willing to pay.

What is the mix breed? Is it a designer breed, hybrid or some other?

I think it would be safe to assume that if someone is selling on adverts, GT or DD then it is a puppy farm, accidental litter anything other than reputable breeder. Same goes for anyone selling via FB or IG, SnCh or whatever.

Did you give Nearseas, as suggested a ring? Also do you have a vet that may know of a breeder that you could get in touch with?

If you have heart set on a KCav then wouldn’t the wait be worth it?

Slutmonkey57b

If you look at any breed with horrific genetic problems, you'll find that it's a direct result of kennel clubs and their (in) breeding policies. Dog breeds which were perfectly healthy 50 years ago are destroyed because some moron in a kennel club decided that (for example) German shepherds should have a slope to their hips.

Get a dog from a rescue centre. Don't buy a dog from anyone for any reason.

ShaShaBear

whitesheep wrote: »

I'M back again with one more question. Is there a minimum a puppy farm would sell a dog for. I've seen lots of lovely mixed breed for aroundof a terrier euro100. Does that sounds right?
I've read up loads on puppy farms and they truly are horrible places and the last thing I want is to support them.
I've visited one animal shelter and they won't take me because of my open garden. There was nothing there that was suitable anyway, Is there a way around it? My garden is more than suitable. We've had dogs before no problem.

There are some rescues that are more lenient with their garden policies. For example, there is one here in Monaghan that doesn't require it. However, there is a reason a lot of rescues expect it.
Firstly, a properly fenced in and secure garden reduces the likelihood of the dog being stolen due to easy access. Secondly, it ensures in a rural area that a dog won't be able to access sheep/cattle and potentially cause a lot of trouble and end up dead for it. Thirdly, it eliminates the possibility of the dog wandering and becoming lost. Fourthly, it removes any chances of the dog finding its way under a moving vehicle.

Can you truly and completely guarantee that your "open garden" offers none of these possibilities? Keep in mind, just because it hasn't happened yet, does not mean it cannot happen at all. Really think about it.

storka

Hi all- following this thread with interest. Similar situation as OP- stalking DD and other sites in the hope that something reputable will turn up (not sure how I'd know but optimistically hopeful).

My partner and I are looking you a Yorkshire Terrier or Dachshund pup ideally. Partner suffers from allergies and these are both non-shed, also we have a small house so small dog essential. We have two middle aged Yorkies (8 & 12) already and ideally would like a younger dog to integrate with them (one of them can be very anxious but is always fine with other yorkies and has mixed well with a friends dachshund).

We have visited and viewed alot of shelters/rescues but anytime we spot a dog that matches what we are looking for we seem to miss out as others get in first.

Anyone have any contacts for reputable breeders for either would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

cocker5

Back to the original OP - how exactly would / does an open garden work?

Cherry Blossom

Neither Dachshunds or Yorkshire terriers are non shed.

Slutmonkey57b

There is no such thing as a "non shed“ or hypoallergenic dog breed. Just dogs that get brushed a lot, or ones that don't.

Knine

Cherry Blossom wrote: »

Neither Dachshunds or Yorkshire terriers are non shed.

These two breeds are also quite different.

volchitsa

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Personally, if it's your first time housing a dog together with your kids, I would stay all kinds of away from a pup. That's a disaster waiting to happen when the nipping rolls in. As well as that, I'd be avoiding any and all dogs that are small - all dogs can be great with kids, but generally the problem is actually the children and their rough attitude with the dogs.

I would stay away from tiny breeds, working dogs (collies, labs, GSDs, spaniels) and most terriers.

So apart from boxers, what does that leave? (Not being sarky here, it's a genuine question.) I'd have thought labs were good, but if they aren't, then surely golden retrievers are the same? So it looks like you're excluding pretty much everything that people normally associate with children?

Also, you say not collies, ie working dogs, so is that all sheepdogs? Because I know collies are often nervous, but maybe other sheepdog might be more laid back with children?

Cedrus

There seems to be a lot of confusion about King Charles Spaniels and King Charles Cavalier Spaniels, they are different dogs. Not the same. They do have a shared history but the pedigrees have been separated for generations.

http://www.cavaliers.co.uk/articles/difference%20kcs%20v%20ckcs.htm

The King Charles (with the domed heads and no snout) have inbred potential for terrible ailments but the King Charles Cavaliers (normal dog shaped heads and snouts) do not suffer the same. Of course like any creature, any of them could get sick, as could any of us.

There is always the potential that a non Kennel Club breeder could mix the two together and get a healthy litter but they could just as easily pass on the problems. The idea that Heinz57 dogs are healthier than pedigrees is based on an utter lack of statistics relating to their health issues whereas pedigrees are recorded and tracked. The scandals like the King Charles brains and the GSD dropped hips are provable because the national kennel clubs keep records which can be compared, but the heinz57 defects are just dismissed " we were unlucky", "it was a bad dog".

DBB

I don't think there's confusion tbh... King Charles are so, so rare particularly in Ireland. I'm pretty sure that people just shorten the name of the dog they know to be the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, to King Charles. Personally, I chop between King Charles, and Cav when describing the CKCS... As do most people I know in the dog world!
I'm not sure of the stats, but Cavs are hugely prone to heart problems, and I'd suggest coming close to (real!) King Charles in their susceptibility to conditions like syringomyelia.

DBB

volchitsa wrote: »

I'd have thought labs were good, but if they aren't, then surely golden retrievers are the same? So it looks like you're excluding pretty much everything that people normally associate with children?

Labs are traditionally great family pets, are are Golden Retrievers!
But... In the past 10+ years, their popularity has done damage to the breed, with all sorts of idiots breeding them with no thought or knowledge of the genetics behind good temperament (and general health)... Actually, just the type of person who sells pups on DD Many of these breeders I'm sure meant no harm as such... They just didn't/don't have the knowledge needed to produce fab pet dogs. Others are just greedy shysters.
So... If a family wants a lab or retriever pup, I'd absolutely encourage them to go for it, but with the caveat that they really make sure to source a great breeder who's breeding for health and temperament. I generally find that gundogs from working lines fit the bill better than show-line dogs.
I think most gundog breeds are great family pets, again as long as they're from working lines, carefully produced, robustly reared... And usually as long as it's an active family who's going to give the dog a run for his money
I know a fella who breeds fab, fab working springers. But he rears them as if they're going to be pet dogs... Lots of handling, lots of meeting people, spending time in the house with hoovers, washing machines, mad kids. This fella's pups are in huge demand both by lads who want a good working dog, or a field trials dog, and families with kids who just want a safe and fun pet.
I have GSDs that are a couple of generations removed from working line dogs. But since their ancestors' working days, they have been carefully bred for a kindly and placid temperament, removing the sometimes hard-to manage "driviness" of working dogs. They are bombproof. In other words, they are the result of selection to produce great PET dogs... Because that's what it's all about for the vast majority of families. They don't want a Crufts Winner, they don't want a hard working dog. They just want a safe and easy pet.
So, with careful breeder selection, a family can find someone who's producing dogs designed to be pets. If it's one of the co-operative working breeds (gundogs, herders), then there's a long history of genetic selection for co-operativeness too... Though that isn't good enough on its own without good parents and good rearing.

Cedrus

DBB wrote: »

I don't think there's confusion tbh... King Charles are so, so rare particularly in Ireland. I'm pretty sure that people just shorten the name of the dog they know to be the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, to King Charles. Personally, I chop between King Charles, and Cav when describing the CKCS... As do most people I know in the dog world!
I'm not sure of the stats, but Cavs are hugely prone to heart problems, and I'd suggest coming close to (real!) King Charles in their susceptibility to conditions like syringomyelia.

I cannot agree, you can chose your own word - confusion, lack of knowledge, whatever. They are different dogs and I have been astounded by colleagues who have cavaliers and worried about the issues affecting KCs when they didn't need to. Dog owners should know as much as possible about their dogs and when researching the breed they are interested in should not be subjected to misinformation and disinformation.