Atheist Godfather For Baptismal Ceremony

tylercheribini

Hi

My sister recently asked me to be godfather to her newborn but as a proud atheist is there any point of me doing this? At the ceremony itself will I be expected to do/say anything? Thanks

Stanford

Atheism is the lack of belief in gods, presumably the new born will be welcomed into the Catholic Church by way of the Sacrament of Baptism, you don't believe in the Christian God or indeed any god so its ingenuousness to say the least

Sleeper12

tylercheribini wrote:

My sister recently asked me to be godfather to her newborn but as a proud atheist is there any point of me doing this? At the ceremony itself will I be expected to do/say anything? Thanks

Most people get their kids christened for the photos and to get the child into the school of their choice.

I don't see what the problem is. You make a few promises to an imaginary god. Everyone is happy. It's not like there is a hell for you to burn in

Stanford

OP describes himself as a "proud atheist", perhaps he takes the matter more seriously

salmocab

tylercheribini wrote: »

Hi

My sister recently asked me to be godfather to her newborn but as a proud atheist is there any point of me doing this? At the ceremony itself will I be expected to do/say anything? Thanks

Your expected to stand and say some oath or other, a promise to see that they are raised in the tradition. If your not comfortable with it just explain it to your sister. It shouldn’t be a big deal to anyone at this stage.

tylercheribini

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You make a few promises to an imaginary god. Everyone is happy. It's not like there is a hell for you to burn in

My atheism is something I feel very strongly about and is not something I am willing to compromise whatsover on. If the ceremony requires to me proclaim anything about the Catholic faith then I wont be saying it. My question is does anyone have any recent experience of being a godfather at a ceremony and what it entails?

looksee

The godfather's main responsibility is to make sure that the child grows up within his religion and is taught the relevant beliefs. If you cannot promise to do this, and you will have to actually promise, then there is no point.

If the whole thing is being treated as a social occasion, as an atheist you should not be encouraging this 'head count' activity which makes the church (of any variety) look stronger than it is.

tylercheribini

looksee wrote: »

The godfather's main responsibility is to make sure that the child grows up within his religion and is taught the relevant beliefs. If you cannot promise to do this, and you will have to actually promise, then there is no point.

If the whole thing is being treated as a social occasion, as an atheist you should not be encouraging this 'head count' activity which makes the church (of any variety) look stronger than it is.

I am willing to attend, just as I have attended church funerals and weddings as a non believer. Atheists can respect the beliefs of others and I dont burst into flames or anything upon entering "consecrated ground" but muttering empty promises would be a step to far for me.

Stanford

Can a non Catholic be a Godparent? No, a person who is not Catholic cannot be a godparent for a Catholic child, because they cannot perform the duties of godparent; for if they do not know and profess the Catholic faith themselves, they cannot teach it to their godchild (Irish Catholic website)

Sleeper12

Not even for your sister?

Have you been christened yourself? If not then you can't be a godfather afaik

Stanford

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Not even for your sister?

Are we now in emotional blackmail territory?

TheShow

The question is, what’s more important to you. Making a few empty promises in front of the padre, or potentially upsetting your sister?

Is your sister deeply religious and does she expect you to teach the child about Christianity? I suspect not if she knows you are a “proud atheist”.
Treat the church thing as a token event and just be good guidance for your “godchild”. It’s nice that your sister thinks enough of you to ask you to do this for her and her child.

Sleeper12

Stanford wrote:

Are we now in emotional blackmail territory?

No but sometimes we are willing to do things for people we love just because it makes them happy.

TheShow

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Not even for your sister?

Have you been christened yourself? If not then you can't be a godfather afaik

They don’t check.

tylercheribini

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Not even for your sister?

Have you been christened yourself? If not then you can't be a godfather afaik

Not even for the Pope.

Yes indoctrinated into the cult like most of the country

Sleeper12

TheShow wrote:

They don’t check.

It's an excuse to let the sister down gently rather than just I'm not doing it

Sleeper12

tylercheribini wrote:

Not even for the Pope.

You've answered your own question there.

Stanford

Sleeper12 wrote: »

It's an excuse to let the sister down gently rather than just I'm not doing it

Why would the OP "let his sister down" by breaking a belief that is deeply personal to him?

salmocab

tylercheribini wrote: »

Not even for the Pope.

Yes indoctrinated into the cult like most of the country

If that’s your feelings I’m struggling to work out why you are here, surely you would just have already said no to your sister.

Sleeper12

Stanford wrote:

Why would the OP "let his sister down" by breaking a belief that is deeply personal to him?

Was his sister being deliberately nasty by asking him? Or do you think that maybe she thought he'd be honoured for her to ask him?

If she is nasty then just be nasty back & say f off. If she is actually being nice and sincere then the polite thing is to let her down gently.

OP does your sister know your beliefs? Seems strange that she'd ask as you feel so strongly about it

tylercheribini

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Was his sister being deliberately nasty by asking him? Or do you think that maybe she thought he'd be honoured for her to ask him?

If she is nasty then just be nasty back & say f off. If she is actually being nice and sincere then the polite thing is to let her down gently.

OP does your sister know your beliefs? Seems strange that she'd ask as you feel so strongly about it

Yes she is very much aware of my strong beliefs but I dont think she was aware of oath swearing etc. If all that mattered was attending I would be fine with it.

Sleeper12

tylercheribini wrote:

My atheism is something I feel very strongly about and is not something I am willing to compromise whatsover on. If the ceremony requires to me proclaim anything about the Catholic faith then I wont be saying it. My question is does anyone have any recent experience of being a godfather at a ceremony and what it entails?

The godfather and godmother stands at the font with the parents and promises to bring the child up as a Christian. There is some voodoo rubbish with lighting of candles.

mollygreene

I wouldn't mind too much what other posters have been saying thus far.

I was recently a godparent and I'm atheist - not in your general Irish society atheist either in that I wasn't baptised Catholic or any religion for that matter. Nobody asked any questions. Just show up on the day, nod at what the priest asks you, wrap the child in the blanket or light a candle -thats the full extent of it.

I find churches and masses really weird, they creep me out a bit but honestly it was grand.

Unless your sister is REALLY religious and wants you to ensure the child has that sort of influence throughout their life - I might reconsider then but if it's like my case where the parents saw me as a good role model for their daughter and I will be a big part of her life/failsafe if something happened to them.

Best of luck OP - grin and bare it. Be grand.

Stanford

My guess is she probably didn't think it would cause him distress and asked him in good faith but OP should answer for himself

tylercheribini

Thanks everyone, she wasnt aware the role of being Godfather was Christian ritual so probably wouldn't have asked me in the first place.

Stanford

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The godfather and godmother stands at the font with the parents and promises to bring the child up as a Christian. There is some voodoo rubbish with lighting of candles.

The mark of a compassionate atheist is that he/she can respect the beliefs of others without rubbishing them

Sleeper12

tylercheribini wrote:

Yes she is very much aware of my strong beliefs but I dont think she was aware of oath swearing etc. If all that mattered was attending I would be fine with it.

There is a lot more to it. She's not very religious herself if she doesn't know this. You literally tell everyone present (& the man above) that you will take on the responsibility of bringing the child up as a Christian. From the churches point of view you are supposed to step in if the child loses its parents and ensure that the child is brought up a Christian.

I don't see any other solution but to tell her you aren't willing to do it.

You can still go to the ceremony and be in the photos etc without praying or making promises to God but definitely not be godfather

Sleeper12

Stanford wrote:

The mark of a compassionate atheist is that he/she can respect the beliefs of others without rubbishing them

You are making too many assumptions

nikkibikki

I think you have to swear to reject Satan, all his works and all his empty promises. And promise that you'll bring up the child in Catholic faith if they lose their parents. And assist the parents in their education as a Catholic I think as well. But these are promises to a god you don't believe in so ask yourself do these promises really matter? If they do, explain to your sister. She will likely be a bit hurt and disappointed. If the promises don't matter, then go ahead and make sure you get extra special gifts for the child for Christmas and birthdays.

lurker2000

The clue is in the title 'God' parent. I would suggest you let someone else stand in for that role and you both come up with a non religious role/title of equal commitment to look after your nephews welfare should the need ever arise.

Stanford

The statement "There is some voodoo rubbish with lighting of candles" is offensive to the people involved

Sleeper12

Stanford wrote:

The statement "There is some voodoo rubbish with lighting of candles" is offensive to the people involved

As is calling the Catholic Church a cult. You haven't pulled up the op??

I never said that I was compassionate towards a church that to this day protects child abusers.

splinter65

tylercheribini wrote: »

Yes she is very much aware of my strong beliefs but I dont think she was aware of oath swearing etc. If all that mattered was attending I would be fine with it.

She had to go to baptism preparation meetings so she must’ve decided that the rules didn’t apply to her family at all.
I don’t know why your family are feeling the need to go to a religious ceremony when you could have had a baby naming ceremony in the garden with a BBQ.
Is it because she’d have to pay a celebrant for the baby naming ?
She hasn’t even got the excuse of needing to do it to get into a school anymore. It’s ludicrous.

splinter65

tylercheribini wrote: »

Thanks everyone, she wasnt aware the role of being Godfather was Christian ritual so probably wouldn't have asked me in the first place.

She’s presenting her child for a catholic sacrament but she didn’t think it would be Christian....

nikkibikki

splinter65 wrote:

She had to go to baptism preparation meetings so she must’ve decided that the rules didn’t apply to her family at all. I don’t know why your family are feeling the need to go to a religious ceremony when you could have had a baby naming ceremony in the garden with a BBQ. Is it because she’d have to pay a celebrant for the baby naming ? She hasn’t even got the excuse of needing to do it to get into a school anymore. It’s ludicrous.

Never had to go to baptism prep meetings for my 10yr old or 5yr olds.

Regards paying a celebrant, the priest would be getting paid too? Do you need a special, qualified celebrant for a naming ceremony? You could just have the BBQ?

And multi or non denominational schools aren't plentiful all over the country.

Stanford

When did this become about the motives of the newborn's mother?

Sleeper12

splinter65 wrote:

She had to go to baptism preparation meetings so she must’ve decided that the rules didn’t apply to her family at all. I don’t know why your family are feeling the need to go to a religious ceremony when you could have had a baby naming ceremony in the garden with a BBQ. Is it because she’d have to pay a celebrant for the baby naming ? She hasn’t even got the excuse of needing to do it to get into a school anymore. It’s ludicrous.

You still need to be christened to get into most schools in Ireland.

shamrock55

For God's sake just play along with it,I'm godfather to 4 kids and don't give a rats about religion and the kids parents knew that

Stanford

Sleeper12 wrote: »

As is calling the Catholic Church a cult. You haven't pulled up the op??

I never said that I was compassionate towards a church that to this day protects child abusers.

As an atheist myself I do believe the Catholic Church is a cult and I am disgusted by its role in child abuse. However I don't mind what sacrament rituals Catholics engage in provided they don't try to involve me, I also have a problem with what is going on in this Thread which smells of good old Irish l la carte Catholicism

splinter65

nikkibikki wrote: »

Never had to go to baptism prep meetings for my 10yr old or 5yr olds.

Regards paying a celebrant, the priest would be getting paid too? Do you need a special, qualified celebrant for a naming ceremony? You could just have the BBQ?

And multi or non denominational schools aren't plentiful all over the country.

But you don’t need a baptism cert to get into any school anymore
https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/education/school-baptism-barrier-gone-for-2019-entry-36967356.html
So that old chestnut of an excuse is gone.
The priest gets a €20 donation. A celebrant will need €300+ like any other professional to come to your family social occasion and act as an MC.
In our parish parents/guardians attend baptism prep over 4 weeks.

splinter65

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You still need to be christened to get into most schools in Ireland.

No you don’t.
https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/education/school-baptism-barrier-gone-for-2019-entry-36967356.html

Sleeper12

Stanford wrote:

As an atheist myself I do believe the Catholic Church is a cult and I am disgusted by its role in child abuse. However I don't mind what sacrament rituals Catholics engage in provided they don't try to involve me, I also have a problem with what is going on in this Thread which smells of good old Irish l la carte Catholicism

The whole thread is about Al la cart Catholicism. Ops sister doesn't know what is involved in being a godfather? Had no idea that it's a religious role? In fact one of the most important roles in the church.

I'm not putting her down in any way but it is Al la cart at its finest. Not saying its a bad thing but it is what it is

Stanford

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The whole thread is about Al la cart Catholicism. Ops sister doesn't know what is involved in being a godfather? Had no idea that it's a religious role? In fact one of the most important roles in the church.

I'm not putting her down in any way but it is Al la cart at its finest. Not saying its a bad thing but it is what it is

Agreed and we will see it at its best as the al la carte brigade flock to see Francis at the weekend while being shocked in private sipping on their Chardonnay

Sleeper12

splinter65 wrote:

No you don’t.

Ah go away with yourself. A Catholic school board is going to bend the rules regardless of any law. It might be workable if maybe 25 percent of the school board had to be non Catholic. Otherwise I don't believe that they will be honest. Not for a second

Sleeper12

Stanford wrote:

Agreed and we will see it at its best as the al la carte brigade flock to see Francis at the weekend while being shocked in private sipping on their Chardonnay

Plenty of protesters this time I'd imagine

wexie

So from the sound of it basically the sister is asking OP :

I really appreciate the bond we have and I think you're a great person. I would really like it if you had a special bond with my child and (god forbid (hurhur:pac:)) should anything happen to me I think you're the kind of person I trust to raise my child in a way I agree in and have faith (:p) in.....

(considering we all seem to agree OP's sister is an alacarte one that's what I would assume she's really asking?)

Which OP doesn't want to do because he would have to say a few words which according to his own beliefs mean absolutely nothing to him....

Have I got all of this right so far?

Then my considered advice would be to just get over it (in a nice way like, not trying to be a dick but really that is (I think) what your sister is asking)

Stanford

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Ah go away with yourself. A Catholic school board is going to bend the rules regardless of any law. It might be workable if maybe 25 percent of the school board had to be non Catholic. Otherwise I don't believe that they will be honest. Not for a second

Certainly not especially when the Daddies queue around the back with the brown envelopes

tylercheribini

wexie wrote: »

Which OP doesn't want to do because he would have to say a few words which according to his own beliefs mean absolutely nothing to him....

Have I got all of this right so far?

Au contraire, as an atheist swearing an oath to any God means absolutely alot to me. I wouldn't expect a Catholic or any other faithful to renounce their beliefs for me.

wexie

tylercheribini wrote: »

Au contraire, as an atheist swearing an oath to any God means absolutely alot to me. I wouldn't expect a Catholic or any other faithful to renounce their beliefs for me.

Well I guess if it means more to you than the position you'd take in the child's life (cause let's face it this is NOT about any kind of faith) then you're probably not the right person for the job anyways.

Least not in my opinion.

It's literally just....words....Nobody is asking you to renounce any 'beliefs' or to admit you believe in god, it's just a little ceremony that can mean what you want it to mean.

Johnnyhpipe

TheShow wrote: »

The question is, what’s more important to you. Making a few empty promises in front of the padre, or potentially upsetting your sister?

Is your sister deeply religious and does she expect you to teach the child about Christianity? I suspect not if she knows you are a “proud atheist”.
Treat the church thing as a token event and just be good guidance for your “godchild”. It’s nice that your sister thinks enough of you to ask you to do this for her and her child.

/thread

Stanford

wexie wrote: »

Well I guess if it means more to you than the position you'd take in the child's life (cause let's face it this is NOT about any kind of faith) then you're probably not the right person for the job anyways.

Least not in my opinion.

It's literally just....words....Nobody is asking you to renounce any 'beliefs' or to admit you believe in god, it's just a little ceremony that can mean what you want it to mean.

So untrue, Baptism is a major event in Catholicism and the OP can't re-invent its meaning, he is merely respecting that meaning and trying to not belittle it by taking part in something that he does not share a belief in