$ 5th Year 2018/19 Off-Topic & General Chat Thread $

Fastidious

Hey Guys! Hope you're all well.

Thought I'd create this thread for us incoming fifth years..

I still have about two weeks left till I go back so ample time to fix my sleep schedule and get organised. Don't really know what to expect..
Having completed TY I honestly feel so lazy and unproductive, definitely regret doing it! There's little to no academic focus! And expensive too! How did you guys find TY/3rd year?

Lol hopefully this thread will be successful!!

Tropical.ing

Thanks for making the thread . Yeah I definitely let some of my academic focus slip during TY (I’ve basically forgotten all of my French) but I don’t regret doing it as I really enjoyed the year overall. I think it helped me to become more confident and I got to try lots of new experiences! What subjects are you doing for the Leaving Cert? I’m doing English, Irish, Maths, French, DCG, Physics, Economics and Business!

randylonghorn

Welcome along!

Fastidious wrote: »

... so ample time to fix my sleep schedule ...

The phrase "famous last words!" springs to mind!

naxmax9

TY Sucked. I'm ready to get back into it. All I did in TY was do a bit of study for the LC. I have half of Economics done (my 8th subject) and bits and bobs of other subjects done (irish,maths,french,english,physics,chem,bio) so I think I'm ready for the new year

yellowsoul

I enjoyed TY but I feel so lazy after it. I'm doing English, Maths, Irish, German, Biology, Home Ec and Business.

c_f_p99

TY was fine. As much as I feel that I could have done more, I didn't really have a lot of control over what I could do and there simply weren't many opportunities. I feel extremely lazy now, though and I'm quite looking forward, for now at least, to 5th year. Still not entirely sure of the Chemistry vs Economics debacle for the eighth subject, though.😑 If only I could borrow a book and find out what's actually on the curriculum. For the rest though it's English, Irish, Maths, French, Physics, App. Maths, and Music (all HL). Have done quite a lot of the Maths course out of interest (most of trig, logarithms, p&c and a bit of algebra, geometry and differentiation. Only did small bits of the others.

Honestly, I feel TY is as good as how you make it to be and that if you didn't enjoy it...well...it sort goes down to yourself, your family and your school. The lack of academic focus was a bit of a godsend after the horrors of 3rd year, tbh.

wheresmahbombs

3rd year - my study habits were fine for a month or two, but things took a negative turn afterwards. My weakest year with regard to test results so far. That's not to matter now, since it's the LC that counts, with regard to college course admissions.

TY - Some of what I got out of TY was presentation skills and a programme in TCD that ended abruptly, thanks to snowmageddon. Numerous moments of boredom ensued, however.

It looks like my LC subjects will be:
-Biology
-Business
-French
-Physics.

Fastidious

Hey everyone!
I'm taking English, Irish, Maths, French, Music, Biology & Chemistry all at higher level for now anyways.
Unhappy with some of my teachers but it is what it is...
I'm finding biology mind numblingly boring, but its early days,, we've completed the first two chapters in Unit One, and moving onto food next week..Can't wait to get stuck into the other subjects,, the past few days have been spent going through the curriculum and all that jazz..
Also for English, our teacher went for the unconventional texts..really not looking forward to reading any of them
Hope everyone had a great first week

naxmax9

Fastidious wrote: »

Hey everyone!
I'm taking English, Irish, Maths, French, Music, Biology & Chemistry all at higher level for now anyways.
Unhappy with some of my teachers but it is what it is...
I'm finding biology mind numblingly boring, but its early days,, we've completed the first two chapters in Unit One, and moving onto food next week..Can't wait to get stuck into the other subjects,, the past few days have been spent going through the curriculum and all that jazz..
Also for English, our teacher went for the unconventional texts..really not looking forward to reading any of them
Hope everyone had a great first week

2 bio chapters done already? We are still on the scientific method lol

Tropical.ing

My first few days have been pretty good and I’m happy with my teachers. None of my friends are in my business class but I guess that means less distraction . Haven’t got much homework so far but I’m sure that’ll change. My timetable is ok but we have double maths first thing on a Monday and Friday morning hopefully my first full week next week will be just as good hope fifth year is going well for everyone!

naxmax9

Does anyone else have 1hr long classes for all subjects? I have maths English and Irish 4 times a week

Tropical.ing

My classes are 40 minutes long. I have English and Irish 5 classes a week and Maths for 7 classes a week.

wheresmahbombs

Yesterday was my first day back.

My French class will probably have only 5 students.

2 double maths classes, amounting to 7 classes a week.

My classes are also 40 minutes long.

spurious

Fastidious wrote: »

Also for English, our teacher went for the unconventional texts..really not looking forward to reading any of them

You have a smart teacher. The less popular texts usually score well.
Same applies to topics in History etc..

wheresmahbombs

Maths class was a bit tough to keep up with today, especially since I didn't really have an understanding of perfect squares in that class.

naxmax9

We are doing natural numbers in higher maths (really easy so far)

Chemistry is so confusing though. Irish is annoying as always, English is chill, French is nice, Biology is beautiful and physics Is the cherry on top. I'm doing economics at home and that's nice.

Chemistry Is just a nightmare right now, I hope I get it soon

wheresmahbombs

Doing functions in HL maths.

Speaking of maths, it was recommended yesterday that I read the upcoming topic in advance so I don't fall behind, especially given the fast pace of the maths class. Along with that, I will be doing maths topics in advance, in place of religion.

Given the massive workload that LC HL maths entails, I think the extra classes will be beneficial.

spurious

wheresmahbombs wrote: »

Maths class was a bit tough to keep up with today, especially since I didn't really have an understanding of perfect squares in that class.

If you can at all, get either your teacher or someone in your class to explain it to you.
Once you fall behind by not 'getting' something, it can have a bad knock on effect and you can end up completely lost.

Fastidious

wheresmahbombs wrote: »

Doing functions in HL maths.

Speaking of maths, it was recommended yesterday that I read the upcoming topic in advance so I don't fall behind, especially given the fast pace of the maths class. Along with that, I will be doing maths topics in advance, in place of religion.

Given the massive workload that LC HL maths entails, I think the extra classes will be beneficial.

We aren't studying functions till 6th year :0 Will be doing Algebra right up until midterm which isn't so bad I guess. We have 6 classes of maths a week and 3 classes of religion, a massive waste of time imo.

wheresmahbombs

My timetable states 7 maths classes (including 2 double classes) and 3 religion classes.

In religion, we discussed aspects like the papal visit and religion's association with aspects of life, such as education and healthcare.

naxmax9

I feel like our maths class is going at an ordinary level pace. We are still on natural numbers and it's so easy and boring

Tropical.ing

In my school, Religion is compulsory for Junior Cert but not Leaving Cert. You only have Religion classes if it’s one of your Leaving Cert subjects.

wheresmahbombs

Religion is done in my school but not the exam, I believe.

Tristan_

How'd everyone's exams go? :P

wheresmahbombs

Maths - fine. Expecting a H3 at least.
English - hopefully I'll get a H6.
Irish - nothing amazing. Should expect at least a H5.
Business: looks like the best out of all the exams. Hoping to get a H1.
Physics: expecting a H3.
French: expecting a H2 or H3.
Biology: hopefully I get at least a H3.

c_f_p99

Did fine.

Maths (H1)
Physics (H1)
App. Maths (H1)
Economics (H2)
Music (H2)
French (H2)
Irish (O2)
English (H3)

Quite indifferent about them. Economics was 88% so close enough to the H1. French and Music are really just building up processes (we were given LC HL questions on both, including a short story for French!)

So could push the three of them to H1s without any bother (if I work, obviously).

Tropical.ing

Mine were:

English (H1)
Irish (H2)
Maths (H1)
French (H2)
Business (H1)
DCG (H1)
Physics (H1)
Economics (H1)

Fastidious

Better late than never..
Mine were
Eng H2
Irish H2
Maths H1
French H1
Music H1
Chem H1
Bio H1
Must be said that they were incredibly easy, and are in no way indicative of what I will actually get.

How's everyone getting on? Hard to believe the year is nearly over. With only seven weeks till easter and five in the third term time really does fly. Just think, this time next year we will be doing our mocks!

Do any of you have teachers that are just woeful. I've a few incompetent teachers that bring shame to the teaching profession to be honest. Like literally in French, I just study rather than listen to my teacher harp on about how beautiful France is, in English! It almost beggars belief that he is allowed to teach first years yet alone a LC HL class..Dont even get me started on my English teacher
You'd think that some kind of standard would have to be maintained..I know inspections may be conducted in which case a teacher would just put on a facade and pretend as though they care. It just really irks me. By the way, I have nothing but respect for those teachers that do go out of their way to ensure that we understand. But the amount of teachers who simply can't teach is unbelievable. And to think that there are many graduates struggling to find a job..perks of working in the public sector eh?

c_f_p99

Fastidious wrote: »

Better late than never..
Mine were
Eng H2
Irish H2
Maths H1
French H1
Music H1
Chem H1
Bio H1
Must be said that they were incredibly easy, and are in no way indicative of what I will actually get.

How's everyone getting on? Hard to believe the year is nearly over. With only seven weeks till easter and five in the third term time really does fly. Just think, this time next year we will be doing our mocks!

Do any of you have teachers that are just woeful. I've a few incompetent teachers that bring shame to the teaching profession to be honest. Like literally in French, I just study rather than listen to my teacher harp on about how beautiful France is, in English! It almost beggars belief that he is allowed to teach first years yet alone a LC HL class..Dont even get me started on my English teacher
You'd think that some kind of standard would have to be maintained..I know inspections may be conducted in which case a teacher would just put on a facade and pretend as though they care. It just really irks me. By the way, I have nothing but respect for those teachers that do go out of their way to ensure that we understand. But the amount of teachers who simply can't teach is unbelievable. And to think that there are many graduates struggling to find a job..perks of working in the public sector eh?

Oh god yes. Okay, I’m going to let you all in for a little secret. I attend a grinds school. Yeah, I know, boo boo, posh D4 alert, boo boo, stupid, pathetic idiot who has everything handed to him alert, boo boo, going off to abuse your daddy’s money again, etc.

But looking back on it, I couldn’t be happier with the decision I’ve made. Now, there are many reasons for this (most notably, greater freedom, lack of a religious ethos, more diverse student body), but the best reason is simply to do with how well run and organised the school is. My previous school was private (and actually costs around the same amount too). I can’t say that I hated it, in fact, I’ve many memories of rugby matches, classroom banter, hanging out with the lads and all. But I was wary of the problems that I could have faced with the standard of teaching there. For instance, my brother, who also went to the school (he is a year below me) had horrific teaching: He had no English teacher until May of 3rd year! In second year, the teacher did NOTHING on the syllabus whatsoever so he had literally a month to do the entire course (got a Higher Merit in the end, fair play to him). The Latin teacher couldn’t control the class whatsoever, same with Maths and French. The rest were barely adequate. (To be continued)

c_f_p99

Alright, I was just scared of the response being automatically deleted again. Anyway, there were more reasons to that. The French department is an absolute disaster (literally EVERY SINGLE person in the LC HL French class for one of the most useless teachers has grinds), the English department is supposed to be crap too (very bad news for me since I’m hopeless at the subject).

Needless to say, I dodged a bullet. One of my friends doing Economics there (one of my options for LC) didn’t have ANY teacher (no sub or anything) for FOUR months straight (since after the October mid-term). The sixth years have someone unqualified who “happens” to know bits and bobs of the subject for just two 40 minute classes a week. This, in a 6k a year private school?! I literally can’t imagine how bad it must be in a public school!

Not to mention ridiculously outdated syllabuses (Economics and App. Maths haven’t been reformed in almost 50 years) and non-existant use of IT in schools surely pits Ireland into having one of the worst education systems in the developed world? I know very well that the Government is trying to revamp it, I just really hope that it succeeds.

Fastidious

Indeed there is an apparent dichotomy between public and private schools, which pits those less fortunate against those who can afford grinds etc. It really is an unfair system.
Although it is what it is.
I suppose I can sit all day and criticise the Irish education system. But credit where credit is due-it does teach the very important lesson that hard work is always rewarded. And didnt the maths syllabus change recently with the implementation of project maths? Ireland fares quite well in the world education rankings so it's not all that bad.

I can't help but feel we are going so slowly through the course..
For instance,
In Maths all we've done is algebra and coordinate geometry. It's a mammoth course and honestly, I can't see us finishing it.

Do you have any idea what you'd like to do after school??
Have you been to any open days?
I went to TCD, RCSI and UCD.
Thinking of doing pharmacy or something concerning healthcare anyways.

Is anyone going to the Gaeltacht?

c_f_p99

Fastidious wrote: »

Indeed there is an apparent dichotomy between public and private schools, which pits those less fortunate against those who can afford grinds etc. It really is an unfair system.
Although it is what it is.
I suppose I can sit all day and criticise the Irish education system. But credit where credit is due-it does teach the very important lesson that hard work is always rewarded. And didnt the maths syllabus change recently with the implementation of project maths? Ireland fares quite well in the world education rankings so it's not all that bad.

I can't help but feel we are going so slowly through the course..
For instance,
In Maths all we've done is algebra and coordinate geometry. It's a mammoth course and honestly, I can't see us finishing it.

Do you have any idea what you'd like to do after school??
Have you been to any open days?
I went to TCD, RCSI and UCD.
Thinking of doing pharmacy or something concerning healthcare anyways.

Is anyone going to the Gaeltacht?

I get what you’re saying. In a way, I think it’s a relief how easy and simple the CAO system is when compared to somewhere like the US. We’re only 17/18 year olds and while I do think having massive CVs and all is nice, I don’t think we’re at the stage for that yet.

Me, Theoretical Physics/Mathematics at Trinity seems fantastic, although I’d also be keen on MEMPHIS (I do Economics which I like), Actuarial and Financial Studies at UCD and possibly, though probably not, Engineering/Science at UCD.

Sorry for sounding a bit extreme in the last post, I can be passionate with my arguements at times. Ireland is a tiny country and has developed tremendously since 30 years ago so perhaps my demands seem a bit unfair at times. Point being, the LC system is wonderfully simple and convenient, I mean, just know your syllabuses and bang on the dozens upon dozens of past papers and you will ALMOST definitely succeed. Much easier said than done obviously, I mean I’ve had my fair share of stresses, but nothing different at all from JC. Still, it’s rather scary thinking about whether you’ll be able to perform well on the day or not. I’m not looking forward to next year for sure!

Oh yeah, I went to UCD and TCD open days. TCD was way better than UCD.

Yeah, that’s the problem with Maths I suppose. I feel like I should be moving on myself, but the teacher assured us that the course would be finished by the mocks. We spent WAY too much time on Algebra (ridiculously basic) and Logs. I’m not great at Geometry (I have bad spatial reasoning skills), but I still felt that it was pointless to spend three weeks doing it (it includes studied proofs and constructions though). I’m just too lazy to bother doing much myself (I did an introduction to calculus thingy on Khan Academy, but that’s it). Over summer perhaps when I won’t be doing much at all, I might consider it.

Fastidious

That's cool! I attended a particle physics open day in Trinity last year and it was really well organised and interesting-think it's an annual event, worth checking out!

I don't know, definitely the CAO needs a massive overhaul. I really like how the British system UCAS works. Your leaving cert results/a level results coupled with a personal statement and an interview determine whether or not you get into college.

Have you heard of the summer schools UCD and Maynooth offer? Don't know if they're worth going to but am considering going if they are worthwhile.

You do music right? Do you play an instrument?

c_f_p99

Fastidious wrote: »

That's cool! I attended a particle physics open day in Trinity last year and it was really well organised and interesting-think it's an annual event, worth checking out!

I don't know, definitely the CAO needs a massive overhaul. I really like how the British system UCAS works. Your leaving cert results/a level results coupled with a personal statement and an interview determine whether or not you get into college.

Have you heard of the summer schools UCD and Maynooth offer? Don't know if they're worth going to but am considering going if they are worthwhile.

You do music right? Do you play an instrument?

Ah, I honestly think UCAS is worse than the CAO. At least in the US, there is so much flexibility in terms of how you present yourself that it can actually relieve a lot of the inequalities caused by the CAO (while creating some new ones). The “predicted grades” part of UCAS is completely stupid, people can get turned down even if they actually get the grades in the end. UCAS is both inflexible yet still gives universities the freedom to look into the schools of students, leaving the poor ones to suffer (since they can’t do anything about it). It’s either go one way or the other for this kind of system. UCAS tries both and doesn’t succeed to the same degree as the other two. I do really like the personal statement, though and the interview is great too. But taking GCSE grades into account is another completely idiotic thing that the CAO doesn’t do.

Yeah, I played piano since I was four. Finished all the grades in that and did compulsory theory (kind of like composing) up to grade 7 so music is a bit of a no-brainer option. I still have to do work for it, though, some aspects of composing are different to what I was used to and I’m not so great at the listening.

The summer schools? Have heard of them, probably won’t bother with them since it’s a variety of activities involved that I don’t seem to really care about.

Fastidious

I do music too! Find it to be great although the listening section questions can be hit or miss sometimes. Having 50% going for the practical will undoubtedly relieve a lot of stress in May/June of 6th year. Are you doing music technology or do you know yet? I wouldn't mind but then again I want to play six pieces but apparently they mark harder than they do when you just play four.

Yes, might give the summer schools a miss. Can't see them really benefiting me, will go to all the open days next year though.

Back to school tomorrow! Tbh, I just want the year to be over already, not that it was particularly difficult or anything but I just want to be in college already. If only I didn't do TY..

Just out of interest, how much study do you do on a weekday? I get barely any homework and don't feel the need to study any more than an hour everyday but when I hear of people studying in excess of three hours in fifth year it does worry me that I am not doing enough. Probably will aim to do a solid two hours now from Mon to Fri.

Do you have easter exams? I've heard of some schools having them, we just do Christmas and Summer and even that seems to be excessive.

c_f_p99

Fastidious wrote: »

I do music too! Find it to be great although the listening section questions can be hit or miss sometimes. Having 50% going for the practical will undoubtedly relieve a lot of stress in May/June of 6th year. Are you doing music technology or do you know yet? I wouldn't mind but then again I want to play six pieces but apparently they mark harder than they do when you just play four.

Yes, might give the summer schools a miss. Can't see them really benefiting me, will go to all the open days next year though.

Back to school tomorrow! Tbh, I just want the year to be over already, not that it was particularly difficult or anything but I just want to be in college already. If only I didn't do TY..

Just out of interest, how much study do you do on a weekday? I get barely any homework and don't feel the need to study any more than an hour everyday but when I hear of people studying in excess of three hours in fifth year it does worry me that I am not doing enough. Probably will aim to do a solid two hours now from Mon to Fri.

Do you have easter exams? I've heard of some schools having them, we just do Christmas and Summer and even that seems to be excessive.

Study, I actually do around 2-3 hours a weekday, but my study can be extremely unproductive to say the least. I mean, all I’d really actually get done in a weekday would like revising two chapters in two separate subjects. I know that I definitely have the capacity to concentrate, but laziness and tiredness get the better of me at times. At the mid-term for instance, even though I was studying in segments throughout the day, I wouldn’t get much done.

For example, yesterday, all I did was type out a part of the French oral, revised Act 3 of Hamlet (not very well), did Trignometrical functions in Maths, Elasticity in Economics (not all that well) and practised piano for like 45 minutes or so. It’s really not a lot considering that I didn’t even consolidate everything I knew in Elasticity nor in Hamlet at all.

Easter exams? Lol, we don’t even have Christmas tests! The music practical seems stressful to me, wouldn’t like the stress of 50% or so of the grade down to one performance. Could do music tech since it is more certain in terms of how well I’m going to do in it. Composing is the best section imo, it’s so repetitive and you can easily prepare it before going in.

Fastidious

I would have thought a grinds school would do exams every second day tbh.
I know what you mean, I'm have a tendency to put off doing things till the night before. It's just when I get home from school I'm extremely tired, even having got eight hours sleep.
I know, but because you're at such a high standard in piano it probably doesn't matter. And even though it's supposedly very simple I'm full certain I'll mess up so yeah I think I'll stick with six pieces. Composition wise I don't know, I find it quite difficult to be more creative with melodies and opt for more simpler sounding ones which results in an average grade. Likewise with harmony, every time without fail I mess up, and it's such a pain having to go back over chords and chose different ones in line with the recommended progressions. It's a lovely subject and everything but even one blunder in a harmony question can cost you..

c_f_p99

Fastidious wrote: »

I would have thought a grinds school would do exams every second day tbh.
I know what you mean, I'm have a tendency to put off doing things till the night before. It's just when I get home from school I'm extremely tired, even having got eight hours sleep.
I know, but because you're at such a high standard in piano it probably doesn't matter. And even though it's supposedly very simple I'm full certain I'll mess up so yeah I think I'll stick with six pieces. Composition wise I don't know, I find it quite difficult to be more creative with melodies and opt for more simpler sounding ones which results in an average grade. Likewise with harmony, every time without fail I mess up, and it's such a pain having to go back over chords and chose different ones in line with the recommended progressions. It's a lovely subject and everything but even one blunder in a harmony question can cost you..

The high standard in piano doesn’t matter one bit, it can still go wrong. Yeah, melody writing is hard to get bang on (you can make mistakes in it very easily), but I love harmony. It’s still probably the nicest part of the subject.

Well, I don’t think I have any more exams than a normal school has. We did have Christmas exams for Maths, Music and Applied Maths to the teacher’s discretion, but they were little more than glorified class tests assessing all the stuff done for the year. The rest was continuously assessed, something I’m not terribly happy with since some teachers have sent the wrong scores for some tests on Moodle (for instance, because I had to sit an Economics test late, I was given a zero on it, bringing my average down to a H2. After sorting out the fact that I got 92% in it, the score was re-entered, bringing it up to a H1 overall). They are many things that can go wrong with class tests, which is why I don’t see them as an indicator towards my actual performance.

But some of the classes are very tough. French is crazy, the teacher basically aims to have us all prepared for the exam by the end of this year and like half the class is fluent. I really need to work on the oral, I’ve always been putting it aside until this week. The pace for Physics and Applied Maths is certainly quick, yet always manageable (strangely enough). I couldn’t believe how much of the Physics course my teacher covered: I literally just have Magnetism, Nuclear Physics and Particle Physics left. So it’s certainly brutal if you don’t keep up. It’s also, in a way, one thing I miss about my old school, the kind of craic us lads used to have from crap teachers, not caring about schoolwork and rugby matches just doesn’t exist here.

Fastidious

Jesus so what'll you be doing in sixth year, mostly exam papers? Sounds really intense I don't know if I'd like that to be honest. Seems like unnecessary stress.
How does your school do in the LC anyways? I estimate that the average points in my school is 350-400. But now that apprenticeships are back up now and plcs are popular, the LC is becoming more and more useless in a way. Idk, our school isn't points focused per se which is a good thing I suppose. Extracurricular activities are really important and I don't think I would survive in a school that is so invested in the LC...
My french teacher is the exact opposite lol But there's a wealth of resources online. My chemistry teacher said that those who are going to get a h1 will get one irrespective of the teacher-do you agree? Personally I think she was just saying that to excuse her poor teaching

c_f_p99

Fastidious wrote: »

Jesus so what'll you be doing in sixth year, mostly exam papers? Sounds really intense I don't know if I'd like that to be honest. Seems like unnecessary stress.
How does your school do in the LC anyways? I estimate that the average points in my school is 350-400. But now that apprenticeships are back up now and plcs are popular, the LC is becoming more and more useless in a way. Idk, our school isn't points focused per se which is a good thing I suppose. Extracurricular activities are really important and I don't think I would survive in a school that is so invested in the LC...
My french teacher is the exact opposite lol But there's a wealth of resources online. My chemistry teacher said that those who are going to get a h1 will get one irrespective of the teacher-do you agree? Personally I think she was just saying that to excuse her poor teaching

I suppose you’re right about the Chemistry. But unfortunately having a good teacher can make an unbelievable difference. Take Physics for instance. In the chapter Heat and Temperature, the syllabus states that the student can choose whichever thermometric property you want to demonstrate Temperature changes. Same thing applies to the Mechanic versus Electrical method for specific heat capacity. But this is a complete lie. Why? Because my teacher pointed out that an experiment on the temperature changes came up that DEMANDED that the student uses the thermocouple method. The same thing happened for the other case. How in the love of f**k were the students or even the teachers ever supposed to know this? The vast majority of students who weren’t aware of this were royally f**ked on the day. You see, I really believe that the SEC are deliberately trying to maintain the inequalities that exist between Leaving Cert students. They do this by giving out vague, confusing or even outright wrong pieces of information to students. For French, you see that “environ 90/75 mots” in the written section? Another outright lie, you’d only get a maximum of a H4 for writing that amount no matter how good it is.

I really want to believe you. But unfortunately lots of secondary school teachers are misinformed of what is actually expected of you in the LC. Grind schools are a result of this. The inequalities surrounding the LC are caused by the SEC themselves, not the grind schools. I also feel that people should be more mad with private schools rather than grinds ones, since private schools take government funding and force people to pay, while grinds ones don’t take any funding whatsoever. Private schools also place FAR more emphasis on prestige, conformity and “keeping that good image” than grinds schools do. This in fact, is the sole reason why I left. The administrations in private (and increasingly public) schools are extremely bureaucratic and anti-student with many of its policies, I feel. Since grinds schools don’t have that “old money” or prestige attached to them, they actually deliver on their promises: to give students a good education.

c_f_p99

There are extra-curriculers there. You see, I feel a lot of people are under the illusion that grinds schools force you to work all the time. I feel that the big difference between them is that class time is spent much more efficiently than in a normal school. I suppose though, I honestly don’t think my old school were any better with the after school activities. They were considered a bigger deal and I do miss the ceremonies at the end of each year dedicated towards that. But it’s not like my new school doesn’t recognise the achievements of its students (they are often mentioned in the school’s newsletter). I just feel that they don’t really shove it in your face so it’s up to you to figure out what to actually do there. It’s just different really, more anonymous. Anyway, while my experience may be different to yours, I feel that I’ve never really gained anything from the extra-curriculars in my old school. They were terribly organised too (I could not do debating for the whole of fourth year for instance) and even though they were apparently clubs, like Science club or computer club, etc which sounded interesting, I could never actually figure out where they were. The way I see it, I think it’s a good thing that they are not so heavily emphasised in school, because then there’d be a situation where the chess/rugby players for the school are given priority over everyone else. It also diminishes the importance of people’s achievements outside the school and doesn’t respect the diversity of each student’s individual talents. But perhaps I’m being cynical here.

spurious

c_f_p99 wrote: »

my teacher pointed out that an experiment on the temperature changes came up that DEMANDED that the student uses the thermocouple method. The same thing happened for the other case. How in the love of f**k were the students or even the teachers ever supposed to know this? The vast majority of students who weren’t aware of this were royally f**ked on the day. You see, I really believe that the SEC are deliberately trying to maintain the inequalities that exist between Leaving Cert students. They do this by giving out vague, confusing or even outright wrong pieces of information to students.

The SEC set the exams, not the syllabus.
If a question appears on the exam that is not on the syllabus, the response would be decided by the Examinations Assessment Manager and communicated to the Advising Examiners before the main Examiners' conference. It would not be unheard of that everyone attempting that part of the question would get full marks, as happened in an exam in the '90s that I was involved with.

The blame for the exam-oriented approach today (rather than syllabus oriented as it was in my day) can be laid fairly and squarely at the door of grinds businesses. There are even teachers around today who think their job is to get students through exams. It is not. Their job is to teach the syllabus.

Fastidious

spurious wrote: »

The SEC set the exams, not the syllabus.
If a question appears on the exam that is not on the syllabus, the response would be decided by the Examinations Assessment Manager and communicated to the Advising Examiners before the main Examiners' conference. It would not be unheard of that everyone attempting that part of the question would get full marks, as happened in an exam in the '90s that I was involved with.

The blame for the exam-oriented approach today (rather than syllabus oriented as it was in my day) can be laid fairly and squarely at the door of grinds businesses. There are even teachers around today who think their job is to get students through exams. It is not. Their job is to teach the syllabus.

Spurious you're awfully quiet regarding incompetent teachers. Surely youve seen it all before teachers not being held accountable for poor teaching..What can be done?

c_f_p99

Okay, look. I am not intending to promote grinds schools here. This is more an argument between public and private schools (grinds schools are fully privatised) and which one is better and more efficient with student welfare.

Spurious, not to be condescending, but you seem to have a romanticised view of public schools and how they are save havens for holistic learning. Granted, they do tend to put more emphasis on extra-curricular activities (though this is definitely changing with the current principal of my school) and perhaps a bit more school spirit (public/semi-private schools are smaller institutions). But this also leads to a more insular and narrow ideology that can negatively impact students (it can lead the “outliers” to rebel more frequently and fiercely). But if you fit in with the rest of the school, it can be lovely. Remember, public and private schools follow the same syllabuses in all subjects. You’d definitely be lying if you were to say that public school teachers do not employ the same sort of rote learning that grinds schools do and that they don’t go through past papers and “try” to teach to the exam. The only difference is is that the good teachers are reliable and someone to count on, not just in terms of exam technique, but also in terms of understanding of the content. The amount of rote learning is entirely a fault of the syllabuses themselves, a fault that ALL teachers will attempt to abuse, not just the grinds ones. The only difference is that the good ones succeed while the bad ones don't.

One of the great things about the Institute (the grinds school I was referring to) is that the atmosphere of the school actually ressembles something akin to a real-life context (ie co-ed, multi-ethnic, non-religious, lack of uniforms, etc). People are actually mature there and do not mess around like they would in my old school. In fact, I was shocked when I heard that there is STILL messing going on involving 5th years. This is largely due to the "bubble" like nature of a lot of Irish schools, leading Irish teenagers to not mature as quickly as in other countries (ie France). The school treats its students extremely well, allowing them to change their timetables whenever they see fit, regularly giving out surveys on how to make it a better place (for instance, a lot of people suggested to improve the lunch area and guess where some of the money next year is going towards?). Whenever they feel stressed, they can always go up to the study guidance counselor or even the principal herself! Seriously, the amount of support you get there completely alleviates the stress there: you can get notes excusing you from sitting class tests/homeworks. There are also tutorials held there for anybody struggling with any subject. The amount of advertising done there is horrific, though, I guess they have to make the money somewhere.

So basically, I've proven that indeed, the Institute (not sure about the others) isn't anywhere near as bad as you'd think with regards to stress. We didn't even get Christmas exams this year! Meanwhile in my old school, they are pushing students into doing 3 hours a weekday minimum along with 6 hours a weekend day minimum! Remember also that the school is 50 years old, so it existed long before grinds were even a thing. Why can't people just consider it to be a proper school? Sure it only deals with 4th, 5th and 6th years and the prescense of crash courses also undermines it, but those type of schools (bar the crash courses) already exist in Britain, they are 6th Form colleges. Those, similarly, are also known to be better and to deliver more freedom than standard secondary schools over there.

Fastidious

Hi,

I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with public schools-or so it seems anyways. But you paint an unfair picture of these schools and glorify grind schools to such an extent that demeans the work of teachers in public schools..
Open your eyes and you'll see that in terms of personal development, public schools have the upper hand.

I can't believe that you have the audacity to suggest that by offering extra-curricular activities, the school is only encouraging devilment..that is just wrong. For your information theses activities offer a much needed break for students and encourage teamwork etc.

No, they don't. I know in my previous posts I was a bit hard on my teachers. But I suppose those aforementioned teachers instill a love for their subject in me. Whilst these subjects may be the ones I perform poorly in, it's refreshing to be taught in a way that favors education as opposed to regurgitation. I think you'd be lying if you said that grind schools aren't obsessed with points and maintaining their H1 record..that isn't education. Have you seen the preparatory courses they offer..it's all about gaming the system, and whilst you're correct in saying that the syllabuses are partially to blame none of this rote learning of the marking schemes goes on in public schools-not in my own experience anyways.

You're only kidding yourself if you think the students attending the Institute are reflective of the Irish population..hm..I highly doubt that. I think you'll find that the majority of people cannot possibly afford to attend these ridiculously priced grind schools. Can I ask-why is it that you feel the need to fork out 7,000 annually, when you can receive just as good of an education in your local public school. Let me stab a guess....is it that that's what the media would have you believe..that attending the institute is the key to success?

God forbid people enjoy their time spent in school...isn't that what life is all about? I think nowadays people have the tendency to take things too seriously. Of course, the leaving cert is important in its own right-but having a laugh, making friends etc etc is just as important.

Can I ask why is it that you chose France to prove your point? Cause I'm of the opinion that you just chose a random country to gain some credibility.

The institute purports to be an educational institution but it's just a place where the members of the aristocracy go to maximize their points. I can't blame them, but you'd want to soon wake up and smell the coffee. The institute wants your money, I think that's why people are reluctant to label it as a school.. I think the only one living in a bubble is you...good night

c_f_p99

Fastidious wrote: »

Hi,

I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with public schools-or so it seems anyways. But you paint an unfair picture of these schools and glorify grind schools to such an extent that demeans the work of teachers in public schools..
Open your eyes and you'll see that in terms of personal development, public schools have the upper hand.

I can't believe that you have the audacity to suggest that by offering extra-curricular activities, the school is only encouraging devilment..that is just wrong. For your information theses activities offer a much needed break for students and encourage teamwork etc.

No, they don't. I know in my previous posts I was a bit hard on my teachers. But I suppose those aforementioned teachers instill a love for their subject in me. Whilst these subjects may be the ones I perform poorly in, it's refreshing to be taught in a way that favors education as opposed to regurgitation. I think you'd be lying if you said that grind schools aren't obsessed with points and maintaining their H1 record..that isn't education. Have you seen the preparatory courses they offer..it's all about gaming the system, and whilst you're correct in saying that the syllabuses are partially to blame none of this rote learning of the marking schemes goes on in public schools-not in my own experience anyways.

You're only kidding yourself if you think the students attending the Institute are reflective of the Irish population..hm..I highly doubt that. I think you'll find that the majority of people cannot possibly afford to attend these ridiculously priced grind schools. Can I ask-why is it that you feel the need to fork out 7,000 annually, when you can receive just as good of an education in your local public school. Let me stab a guess....is it that that's what the media would have you believe..that attending the institute is the key to success?

God forbid people enjoy their time spent in school...isn't that what life is all about? I think nowadays people have the tendency to take things too seriously. Of course, the leaving cert is important in its own right-but having a laugh, making friends etc etc is just as important.

Can I ask why is it that you chose France to prove your point? Cause I'm of the opinion that you just chose a random country to gain some credibility.

The institute purports to be an educational institution but it's just a place where the members of the aristocracy go to maximize their points. I can't blame them, but you'd want to soon wake up and smell the coffee. The institute wants your money, I think that's why people are reluctant to label it as a school.. I think the only one living in a bubble is you...good night

Look, I don't want this whole thread to be a two-way conversation between you and me. Other people would be scared off from using this forum, but anyway here's what I have to say.

First off, I am comparing the grinds school to a semi-private school, NOT a public school. So it would be correct to think that I don't have enough first-hand experience with public schools (hence the fact that you accused me of being in a bubble), I only ever went to a public primary school. And I thoroughly enjoyed it, yes I was an outlier in the way that I wasn't sporty (it was single gender), but I have fond memories of the place.

When did I ever say that extra-curricular activities encourage devilment in the school environment? Maybe I wasn't communicating this properly, but I simply meant that a restrictive ethos (that DOES go around in schools like Blackrock or Michaels, I know many friends there who think the same) can negatively impact a student's development. I never said that they were inherently a bad thing (in fact, I am completely in favour of them), but only if a school does not put an overemphasis on a certain activity and/or group of activities. I feel that I was a bit left out from not being into sport in my old school so I'm just trying to make a point on why I left (that is, because I felt that there wasn't a bias towards any particular sport there).

With regards to teaching, you see I was comparing it to a semi-private school all along. I'm absolutely not saying that I don't have any positive memories of teachers there whatsoever. Far from the case, I loved loads of my teachers there. They were fun people with unique personalities that contributed to the overall atmosphere of the school. And there certainly were good ones there too, some really passionate and dedicated people who wanted to do what they can to their students. But this can only go so far in an inflexible education system that forces everybody to follow the same, tired national curriculum (Britain also seems to be a victim of this). If you really believe that all of the teachers of the Institute really are nothing but mindless "teach-to-the-test" bots, then I think you are extremely misinformed. They are every bit as driven and passionate about their work, it's just that they're even more of those kinds of teachers there. And also, for every outstanding, warm and inspiring persona (of a teacher) comes one that could not give a crap about their students. While there was more of the former, the latter is, sadly, growing in my old school. This is as a result of the government funding the school receives, which means that they have to take in more and more of these teachers. Not being able to control the class was (as I pointed out) a huge issue there. I actually think that the improvements of the Institute are not so much in relation to teaching, but management. The school is unbelievably well organised. If a teacher were to be absent (pretty rare), the school would have that on the notice board and immediately send a substitute in to teach them. My old school, oftentimes, didn't employ subs in these cases, they just sent another teacher in to control the environment and to supervise with doing homework. Extra-curricular activities (as you mentioned) may not even be on due to late cancellations andterrible organisation of these activities.

Also, because the teachers are directly employed by the school and not the state, I'd actually make the argument that it can create a more integrated environment (which in many ways, it is without being overly so) than in my old school. I mean, teachers being sent by the state into a school from some random other place can actually lead to the public/semi-private school to have a more fractured environment, right? Just saying this since you seemed to be implying that you think public schools have better integrated environments (you may not have been, though). I know you're going to say that I'm being extremely elitist by making this argument and I know that having a new teacher from another place can be a welcome breath of fresh air, but at the same time, it may come into conflict with your ideas of an integrated environment (which you may or may not be thinking).

Also, I have been to France for seven weeks. Attended an elite private lycée though, so probably not representative of the whole country (although fees are cheaper than my old school). But my god were the people so much more mature there than my old school. And not in a forced way either, more so in a natural way. So I just thought that I could bring this up.

Also, as much as you (and myself) are saying that I live in a bubble and don't know what public schools are really like (even though I attended one for primary school) don't you think that the same can be said about you and your attitude to grinds schools? I had the more or less the same perception that you had about them in TY. However, I was coming into conflict with the school's ethos and having attended an open evening, I liked the idea of the school. It barely costed more than my old school, but seemed to be more organised, inclusive and diverse than said old school. So I enrolled there, much to the dismay of my friends (but I still keep in touch with them). So think about this for a moment. Please don't think that just because grinds schools cost more (and just to remind you, I never once said that grinds schools are representative of Irish society, I can't believe you even accused me of that), doesn't mean that the people who go to them have a right to be bashed for going to them. It's a choice, an individual choice, not to mention that, ironically, those schools cost the taxpayer nothing since they are fully privatised. So they shouldn't be so hateful of these places is all I'm saying.

c_f_p99

Oh, I apologise, I did mention that grinds schools have more of a real-life context to them than my old school (I did NOT compare it to general public schools!) This is absolutely true, for reasons that I've stated above. Sadly, though, with the classist divide of our society, don't you really think that these sorts of bubbles will always exist (at university or the workplace)? There actually are a surprising number of northsiders in the place too (not from Clontarf or anywhere like that either). Better than having none of them in my old school!

Fastidious

There are only 298 days till Christmas!

c_f_p99

For anyone doing music, do you think it’s worth it to learn all six questions for the composing paper? They all look so similar and I've actually already done Q1, 4 and 5 as part of grade 7 theory, but leaving cert ones are a tad different.

Fastidious

Sure I thought that teachers in private schools were these omniscient creatures, or so you suggested..ask them.

Tropical.ing

Look maybe you guys could discuss your feelings in private message because nobody will use this thread if you just keep arguing about private vs public schools.