The politics of the pope's visit.

54and56

This is a powerful interview.

"What do you tell an institution that teaches morality but has none?"

"When you've embezzled from the church as a priest you go to jail, when you rape a child as a priest you get transferred to a whole new flock of kids"

I don't see how any government could (or should in my opinion) support a visit by the international leader of an organisation which has and continues to pro actively cover up and avoid responsibility for such large scale paedophilia on a global scale.

I know the pope is technically a head of state so some may use "diplomacy" as a reason for rolling out the red carpet and others may with some justification point to it being an opportunity for our government/political leaders to challenge him but I think it sends a very poor signal that things are somehow "normal" when they are far from it.

If the international head of any other organisation whose local branch had systematically abused and then covered up the abuse of our country's most vulnerable citizens there is no way they'd get the sort of welcome this guy is going to get and no way 500,000 or however many otherwise good and caring people heading to the Phoenix Park would fawn over him, they'd be part of the backlash against any such a visit.

I just don't get it other than the reason it's being facilitated is that no politician can afford to pi$$ off the catholic church going voters in their constituency so it's best to play along enthusiastically or if you cannot bring yourself to associate with the visit you just say nothing and let it pass for fear of losing votes at the next election?

James Brown

It's criminality aside, not one cent of tax payer money should be going beyond what any other visiting dignitary gets. The Pope's gig should be put through the same rigors and fees as the Red Hot Chilli Peppers IMO. We are sending out the wrong message that the state is complicit with and sponsoring the Catholic organisation.
I'm not suggesting we ban such events, just leave them at arms length for the tax payer.
Politicians are free to attend like anyone else. The state should have nothing to do with it other than welcoming the Pope at the same level as any other foreign dignitary. Be nice if he was brought in for interview regarding his organisations criminal covering up of child abuse.

punisher5112

Why not let the Scientologist group have a big free gig.

I do think the Irish are slowly waking up though to the church.

LoughNeagh2017

To hell with him, the Catholics of Northern Ireland carried on the religion through plantation and discrimination but Pope wouldn't even pay a visit, even though Armagh is the capital of the Irish Catholic church, I don't even go to mass anymore, I don't know if I will return.

James Brown

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

To hell with him, the Catholics of Northern Ireland carried on the religion through plantation and discrimination but Pope wouldn't even pay a visit, even though Armagh is the capital of the Irish Catholic church, I don't even go to mass anymore, I don't know if I will return.

Probably doesn't want to upset the supporters of William of Orange, who's campaign against the Catholics was in part funded by Pope Alexander VIII. Frankly that would be one of the things put me off the whole organisation, that and the pedophilia.

Edward M

Firstly, I'm not going to see him, couldn't care less whether he comes or not.
But crowds will flock to see him, he is a figurehead for probably the largest still practicing religions in the country.
I think the state shouldn't be out of pocket though, the catholic church in Ireland should foot the bill and he shouldn't be treated as a head of state visiting here.
Politically speaking he isn't any worse than a lot of other political leaders we've entertained here, look at the amount of lives which have and continue to be damaged by the policies of a lot of western leaders whom we consider it an honour to have welcomed here throughout our history, the injustices visible in the countries we continue to do business with all the time.
In regard to lumping the pope in with that, he is probably by far not the worst visitor we could have here.

54and56

Edward M wrote: »

In regard to lumping the pope in with that, he is probably by far not the worst visitor we could have here.

I'd be interested to see a list of visitors who would be less welcome than the leader of the largest systemic paedophile ring to ever operate throughout history!!

Kim Jong-un is the only living leader who springs to mind who's organisation could compete with the catholic church in terms of systemic abuse. I'm sure there are despots in Africa who would make the list but I'm not familiar with them and don't think they've been welcomed here, not in the recent past anyway.

James Brown

China would have a bad human rights record, but sure they help some make money. Not to mention the Putin related financial shell companies we house. But that's all whatabout. The Pope needs to make an apology at his tax payer funded gig.

Amirani

As long as 80% of Irish people keep blindly ticking Catholic on the Census form like complete fools, it makes it very difficult politically to take a stance against the pope visiting Ireland.

James Brown

Amirani wrote: »

As long as 80% of Irish people keep blindly ticking Catholic on the Census form like complete fools, it makes it very difficult politically to take a stance against the pope visiting Ireland.

It would be foolish to attempt such a thing. However, 'let the church foot the bill, they've enough money' might be an idea.

blackwhite

Matt Barrett wrote: »

It would be foolish to attempt such a thing. However, 'let the church foot the bill, they've enough money' might be an idea.

If only. I'm sure there'd be another Bertie-esque deal struck where they'd transfer a field or two to the State and then leave us with an open-ended bill.

Jim2007

Amirani wrote: »

As long as 80% of Irish people keep blindly ticking Catholic on the Census form like complete fools, it makes it very difficult politically to take a stance against the pope visiting Ireland.

You need to grow up! Ireland is no different to any other Western European country today. It has a predominantly Christian ethos and this is reflected in it's politicians etc.... so there is not going to any credible support for your nonsense.

Edward M

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

I'd be interested to see a list of visitors who would be less welcome than the leader of the largest systemic paedophile ring to ever operate throughout history!!

Kim Jong-un is the only living leader who springs to mind who's organisation could compete with the catholic church in terms of systemic abuse. I'm sure there are despots in Africa who would make the list but I'm not familiar with them and don't think they've been welcomed here, not in the recent past anyway.

I'd be interested to see any get a better public reception too.
500000 looking to see him, could easily be more if there was space and time.

54and56

Edward M wrote: »

I'd be interested to see any get a better public reception too.
500000 looking to see him, could easily be more if there was space and time.

Large crowds of indoctrinated members fawing over their leader in mass delusion isn't always a good thing!!

Edward M

^^^^^^^ comparing politically I think that's bordering on the ridiculous.

54and56

^^^^^^^^^ That's the least surprising statement I've read in a long time.

looksee

I suppose there will be a big turnout, but I have yet to meet/talk online to anyone who is going.

Peregrinus

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Large crowds of indoctrinated members fawing over their leader in mass delusion isn't always a good thing!! . . .

Godwinned.

Edward M

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^ That's the least surprising statement I've read in a long time.

Politically speaking, and this is a political thread and forum, mass delusion is what we are constantly sold. No pun intended on the mass.
As I said earlier, looking at it politically, the pope is one of the least threatening visitors we could entertain.

54and56

Edward M wrote: »

Politically speaking, and this is a political thread and forum, mass delusion is what we are constantly sold. No pun intended on the mass.
As I said earlier, looking at it politically, the pope is one of the least threatening visitors we could entertain.

The organisation he leads is quite threatening, in particular to the very young and most vulnerable.

I can't recall the last time the Irish government rolled out the red carpet for a leader who's organisation has such a despicable record of abuse.

Edward M

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

The organisation he leads is quite threatening, in particular to the very young and most vulnerable.

I can't recall the last time the Irish government rolled out the red carpet for a leader who's organisation has such a despicable record of abuse.

Try any American or British rep or leader, just lovely regimes.

Jim2007

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Large crowds of indoctrinated members fawing over their leader in mass delusion isn't always a good thing!!

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

The organisation he leads is quite threatening, in particular to the very young and most vulnerable.

I can't recall the last time the Irish government rolled out the red carpet for a leader who's organisation has such a despicable record of abuse.

When you come out with that kind of BS all you to is discredit yourself and the points you are trying to make. Time to but junior on ignore.

Amirani

Jim2007 wrote: »

You need to grow up! Ireland is no different to any other Western European country today. It has a predominantly Christian ethos and this is reflected in it's politicians etc.... so there is not going to any credible support for your nonsense.

What nonsense exactly? I merely said that it's politically non-viable to offer credible opposition to the visit of a figure that 80% of the population purports represents them.

I have justifiable reason that the 80% is quite inaccurate and I think it's foolish for people to simultaneously form a portion of it and protest the accommodations being made for the papal visit.

foggyflies

It's mad what kind of stuff they were selling all throughout as a result of this. Has anyone seen the one of the pope wearing a repeal jumper?
Pope in repeal jumper