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Excuator won't sell house

  • 15-08-2018 2:11am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭✭✭ Sarah134


    Hi,

    My grandfather passed and I'm looking to purchase the house. The problem is that another family member is living there rent free to save for a mortgage. The family member is related to the excuator of the will. There's 3 party's involved. 2 excuators and one beneficiary. I've 2/3 approval to purchase but as its the excuators say, they can't sell it to me. It's almost a year since the passing had occurred.

    The point was to keep the house in the family.

    Any help here.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭ laotg


    Are you the beneficiary?


  • Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭✭✭ Sarah134


    No just a family member that wants to buy it off them.

    2/3 ( an exuavator and a beneficiary) want to sell up but one of the excuator won't sell as their daughter and partner live in the house.


  • Registered Users Posts: 72,826 ✭✭✭✭ Atlantic Dawn


    The house will likely have to go for sale on the open market if and when it goes on sale unless all 3 agree to accept your offer which would be unlikely.

    The executors are failing in their duties to administer the will if one party wants their portion from the sale now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,421 ✭✭✭ splinter65


    Sarah134 wrote: »
    No just a family member that wants to buy it off them.

    2/3 ( an exuavator and a beneficiary) want to sell up but one of the excuator won't sell as their daughter and partner live in the house.

    You can’t do anything about it but the 2 people who have an “interest” in the house should seek legal advice about realizing their inheritance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭ Jfrost


    Sarah134 wrote: »
    No just a family member that wants to buy it off them.

    2/3 ( an exuavator and a beneficiary) want to sell up but one of the excuator won't sell as their daughter and partner live in the house.

    As far as I know an exuavator can not benefit from a will so therefore in this scenario they no longer are acting as exuavator as they clearly are on behalf of their family member.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,323 ✭✭✭✭ Peregrinus


    splinter65 wrote: »
    You can’t do anything about it but the 2 people who have an “interest” in the house should seek legal advice about realizing their inheritance.
    There seems to be only one person who has an interest in the house - the OP says there is just one beneficiary - and they want to sell. But, as you say, it's up to them to compel the executors to proceed with the administration of the estate. The OP, as the offering purchaser, cannot force the issue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 72,826 ✭✭✭✭ Atlantic Dawn


    Jfrost wrote: »
    As far as I know an exuavator can not benefit from a will so therefore in this scenario they no longer are acting as exuavator as they clearly are on behalf of their family member.

    No they can benefit...

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/death/before_a_death/making_a_will.html

    An executor can be a beneficiary under the will. In other words, the executor can also inherit under the will.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭ davo10


    Op, just to be clear, is there only one beneficiary, or are the two executors also beneficiaries?


  • Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭✭✭ Sarah134


    davo10 wrote: »
    Op, just to be clear, is there only one beneficiary, or are the two executors also beneficiaries?

    2 excuators and 1 beneficiaries..all 3benifit from the sale.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,775 ✭✭✭ duffman13


    Sarah134 wrote: »
    2 excuators and 1 beneficiaries..all 3benifit from the sale.

    So both executors will recieve a portion of the sale. 3 beneficiaries?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭✭✭ Sarah134


    duffman13 wrote: »
    So both executors will recieve a portion of the sale. 3 beneficiaries?

    Yes. But to get the sale I need one of the excuators left to agree?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭ myshirt


    So much wrong with this.... let's take it step by step.

    Has a grant of probate or deed of administration been taken out?


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,323 ✭✭✭✭ Peregrinus


    All three beneficiaries are entitled to have the estate administered. Two of the beneficiaries are also executors, and they have a duty to administer the estate.

    If one executor/beneficiary does not wish the estate to be administered just yet (because delay is convenient for him) the other two can take action either to compel him to administer the estate, or to remove him as executor so that he cannot obstruct or delay the administration of the estate. But if he is stubborn it can take time and cost money, and the other two may not have the appetite for this.

    If they are not prepared to force the issue, and cannot resolve it by persuasion or negotiation, there is nothing the OP can do. She is neither an executor nor a beneficiary, and has no interest in the assets of the estate. (Her desire to purchase one of them from the estate does not amount to an "interest" which would enable her to compel the administration of the estate to proceed.) All she can go is encourage the two beneficiaries who wish to proceed to press the matter, either by negotiation or if necessary by court action.

    The executors should be collecting rent from the person who is living in the house but, again, they are accountable to the beneficiaries for any loss which results from their failure to do so, so this is no help to the OP.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭✭✭ Sarah134


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    All three beneficiaries are entitled to have the estate administered. Two of the beneficiaries are also executors, and they have a duty to administer the estate.

    If one executor/beneficiary does not wish the estate to be administered just yet (because delay is convenient for him) the other two can take action either to compel him to administer the estate, or to remove him as executor so that he cannot obstruct or delay the administration of the estate. But if he is stubborn it can take time and cost money, and the other two may not have the appetite for this.

    If they are not prepared to force the issue, and cannot resolve it by persuasion or negotiation, there is nothing the OP can do. She is neither an executor nor a beneficiary, and has no interest in the assets of the estate. (Her desire to purchase one of them from the estate does not amount to an "interest" which would enable her to compel the administration of the estate to proceed.) All she can go is encourage the two beneficiaries who wish to proceed to press the matter, either by negotiation or if necessary by court action.

    The executors should be collecting rent from the person who is living in the house but, again, they are accountable to the beneficiaries for any loss which results from their failure to do so, so this is no help to the OP.

    Thank you that clarifies so much.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭ davo10


    Op, the reality is that as you are not a beneficiary, you have no more right to purchase that house than any other member of the public. You cannot compel the third beneficiary to sell to you. The decision must be made jointly by the three, and if they are siblings who are close, chances are they will not evict their niece in order to force a sale.

    Thread carefully, the third beneficiary might try to convince the others to sell to his daughter or to put it on the market to see what it's worth. But you, cannot force the sale, let them sort it out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭✭✭ Sarah134


    davo10 wrote: »
    Op, the reality is that as you are not a beneficiary, you have no more right to purchase that house than any other member of the public. You cannot compel the third beneficiary to sell. The decision must be made jointly by the three, and if they are siblings who are close, chances are they will not evict their niece in order to force a sale.

    Thread carefully, the third beneficiary might try to convince the others to sell to his daughter or to put it on the market to see what it's worth. But you, cannot force the sale, let them sort it out.

    Hi ,

    They can't convience there daughter to buy the house as they don't have the means. It was agreed to sell the house to a family member to keep it in the family. Even if I don't get the house I am doing the 2 beneficiaries a favour as they want to sell the house.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭✭✭ Sarah134


    davo10 wrote: »
    Op, the reality is that as you are not a beneficiary, you have no more right to purchase that house than any other member of the public. You cannot compel the third beneficiary to sell. The decision must be made jointly by the three, and if they are siblings who are close, chances are they will not evict their niece in order to force a sale.

    Thread carefully, the third beneficiary might try to convince the others to sell to his daughter or to put it on the market to see what it's worth. But you, cannot force the sale, let them sort it out.

    Hi ,

    They can't convience there daughter to buy the house as they don't have the means. It was agreed to sell the house to a family member to keep it in the family. Even if I don't get the house I am doing the 2 beneficiaries a favour as they want to sell the house.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,421 ✭✭✭ splinter65


    Sarah134 wrote: »
    Hi ,

    They can't convience there daughter to buy the house as they don't have the means. It was agreed to sell the house to a family member to keep it in the family. Even if I don't get the house I am doing the 2 beneficiaries a favour as they want to sell the house.

    If the 2 beneficiaries don’t want to create a family argument now by pressing the issue with the 3 beneficiary then you need to make it clear that you are ready to buy right now but then step back as you are at risk of falling out with all 3 if you pester them and then you mightn’t get the house at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭✭✭ Sarah134


    splinter65 wrote: »
    If the 2 beneficiaries don’t want to create a family argument now by pressing the issue with the 3 beneficiary then you need to make it clear that you are ready to buy right now but then step back as you are at risk of falling out with all 3 if you pester them and then you mightn’t get the house at all.

    This argument was going to happen as one does not want to sell. Being honest it's a burden on the other two who have expressed there need to sell it. I can't fall out with all 3 maybe one as they won't be happy that their daughter can't get the finance to purchase the house.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,654 ✭✭✭✭ listermint


    It sounds like 1 pushy party in this is taking the piss and the other two siblings im sure dont want to press it for fear of reprisal.

    This sort of nonsense is common in Estate handling , Cash really brings out the worst in people.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,170 ✭✭✭ Widdensushi


    Sarah134 wrote: »
    Hi ,

    They can't convience there daughter to buy the house as they don't have the means. It was agreed to sell the house to a family member to keep it in the family. Even if I don't get the house I am doing the 2 beneficiaries a favour as they want to sell the house.

    So two of the beneficeries daughter is living in the house?So they need to buy one third of the house to own it outright?


  • Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭✭✭ Sarah134


    listermint wrote: »
    It sounds like 1 pushy party in this is taking the piss and the other two siblings im sure dont want to press it for fear of reprisal.

    This sort of nonsense is common in Estate handling , Cash really brings out the worst in people.

    The problem is, I'm the daughter of one excuator and want to buy the house. The other excuator has their daughter in the house rent free for almost a year. My mother did not want to sell yet but as I've expressed interest. This is giving her a reason to push a sale, even if I don't get it.

    The reasons for not selling
    1- to keep it in the family
    2- to give the excuators daughter a year to save and finance to buy the house. Which is impossible with only one party working.

    If they don't sell then a solicitor will have to get involved.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭✭✭ Sarah134


    So two of the beneficeries daughter is living in the house?So they need to buy one third of the house to own it outright?

    2/3 there's 3 beneficiaries


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭ myshirt


    +1 on Peregrinus input.


    Two key next steps are for the beneficiaries to take action, and for the executor to sort out the tax position. Income accrues to the estate. Tax accrues to the Collector general. A flat 20% I believe but they will have to follow their professional advisor guidance.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭ pc7


    OP if you are in a position to purchase a house, just purchase a different one. Leave your mam off to sort things with the other beneficiaries of the will. This sounds like a clusterf**k at the minute, do you want that stress or hassle hanging over you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭✭✭ Sarah134


    pc7 wrote: »
    OP if you are in a position to purchase a house, just purchase a different one. Leave your mam off to sort things with the other beneficiaries of the will. This sounds like a clusterf**k at the minute, do you want that stress or hassle hanging over you?

    It won't stress me out. I'm not in a rush but it will put pressure on the one person who won't sell. As I've stated this is a burden with having to maintain the upkeep and paying towards a house that isn't providing an income


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,654 ✭✭✭✭ listermint


    tbh this is your mothers problem right now.

    The sole beneficary of all of this is the girl whos living in it, Shes rent free. Probably saving f'all and may never actually get to buy it. Unless her mother starts pushing for a below market sale. Which may actually happen.

    It sounds like there is one winner here, and a strong pushy mother to boot. So the other siblings are letting her away with it.

    Cash corrupts, and families soon see whats what when there is money involved.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭✭✭ Sarah134


    listermint wrote: »
    tbh this is your mothers problem right now.

    The sole beneficary of all of this is the girl whos living in it, Shes rent free. Probably saving f'all and may never actually get to buy it. Unless her mother starts pushing for a below market sale. Which may actually happen.

    It sounds like there is one winner here, and a strong pushy mother to boot. So the other siblings are letting her away with it.

    Cash corrupts, and families soon see whats what when there is money involved.

    It's already interesting cause it's already ugly and the cash hasn't been handed over.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,323 ✭✭✭✭ Peregrinus


    As you say, it's ugly. Family rows always are.

    But this is not a family row in which you need to be involved, and if you don't need to be involved in a family row then you positively need not to be involved.

    By all means support your mother in her struggle to have the estate administered and her entitlement paid to her, but don't complicate matters by being the family member who wants to buy the house and feels aggrieved that she can't. Even if you do succeed in buying the house there is a high risk of lingering bad feeling and resentment from family members who feel that your cousin was unfairly excluded from an opportunity to make an offer to buy herself.

    You are better off buying a house with a less complicated history, and less emotional baggage.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭✭✭ Sarah134


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    As you say, it's ugly. Family rows always are.

    But this is not a family row in which you need to be involved, and if you don't need to be involved in a family row then you positively need not to be involved.

    By all means support your mother in her struggle to have the estate administered and her entitlement paid to her, but don't complicate matters by being the family member who wants to buy the house and feels aggrieved that she can't. Even if you do succeed in buying the house there is a high risk of lingering bad feeling and resentment from family members who feel that your cousin was unfairly excluded from an opportunity to make an offer to buy herself.

    You are better off buying a house with a less complicated history, and less emotional baggage.

    I agree entirely with this but I would like my mother to get her money as it's been 1.5 years waiting.

    I'm not upset if I didn't get the house just that it's been dragging on too long. This is a reason to show incentive to buy. I'm renting and saving with no help.


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