The Curse of Defective Concrete (Mica, Pyrrhotite, etc.) in Donegal homes - Read Mod warning Post 1

jj880

NIMAN wrote: »

I was driving from Derry to Carn today and passed a couple of Chambers lorries in the road heading towards Derry. Didn't think much of it, but I only took notice tabs I looked to see if they were Cassidys.

Then passing the infamous housing estate being built, the one with the graffiti, I'm nearly sure another Chambers lorry was in the site pouring concrete.

Interesting, if my eyes didn't deceive me.

Your eyes didnt deceive you:

https://m.facebook.com/groups/297785338568131/permalink/299616828384982/?refid=18&__tn__=-R

Campaign is making progress.

Penfailed

Protest planned for the 22nd May at the shorefront in Buncrana. Another in Letterkenny too on the same date.

Penfailed

Penfailed wrote: »

Protest planned for the 22nd May at the shorefront in Buncrana. Another in Letterkenny too on the same date.

I've a feeling it's going to be a big one. There's a 'CEASE CASSIDYS TRADING' sign that has appeared on the way into Buncrana now...! It'll probably not stay there for long.

malinheader

Penfailed wrote: »

I've a feeling it's going to be a big one. There's a 'CEASE CASSIDYS TRADING' sign that has appeared on the way into Buncrana now...! It'll probably not stay there for long.

If the stories of the threats to the main organiser of the protest from a certain Big building contractor from Buncrana are true I think you are right.

Dempo1

Saw the recent report on this scandal and particular felt for the elderly coupled featured, just appalling and shocking.

I just can't get my head around why contractors who built these homes are not being held responsible, or and suppliers of the blocks, materials in question. Furthermore we're are the insurance companies, surveyors indeed financial institutions who issued mortgages on defective properties (albeit at the time not known)

It just seems extraordinary the state and homeowners being left to foot substantial bills for repair unless I'm missing something.

malinheader

Dempo1 wrote: »

Saw the recent report on this scandal and particular felt for the elderly coupled featured, just appalling and shocking.

I just can't get my head around why contractors who built these homes are not being held responsible, or and suppliers of the blocks, materials in question. Furthermore we're are the insurance companies, surveyors indeed financial institutions who issued mortgages on defective properties (albeit at the time not known)

It just seems extraordinary the state and homeowners being left to foot substantial bills for repair unless I'm missing something.

No accountability in this country is a big factor.
A good few years ago I worked on a site, all the houses were said to be covered by Homebond. Some kind of company who guarantees all the houses are finished to proper standards and regulations. Big Homebond flags flying everywhere. Anyhow remember steel mesh being laid in a foundation and the man from HomBond there to check it. Boxes all ticked away he went, steel lifted out and concrete poured and steel kept for another foundation. One of many things that were a total farce.
Alot older now but still annoys me to think it happened.

green123

I am also wondering about the same questions that Dempo1 has asked.

Surely the suppliers and the builders should be paying for this problem?

Why is the government being asked to pay and why are they not chasing the suppliers and builders?

Penfailed

In the eyes of the law, the company that supplied the blocks no longer exists. The father handed the business to the sons and changed the name slightly. The builder that built our house is no longer in business either. House insurance doesn't cover structural damage caused by defective materials. The redress scheme should be run the same way the pyrite scheme worked in Dublin. 100% redress.

green123

malinheader wrote: »

Government and council to blame for not testing or making sure that the blocks were fit for purpose. But Cassidys still as much to blame for the lack of cement. In my opinion all three have alot of questions to answer.

Were the government and councils in other counties testing blocks in them years?

Were government and councils supposed to test according to some industry standards?

If that's the case then maybe the suppliers are only partly to blame

green123

Penfailed wrote: »

So, just forget about it and move on? Meanwhile Cassidys continue to trade and make money with no comeback for all the failings? Yes, the redress scheme falls short of what is required...but should Cassidys get away scot-free?

It's a disgrace that companies are allowed to just close down and then open up again under a new name with all the old problems and liability and debts and accountability gone with the old company.

It happens in all industries not just construction. Look at the amount of restaurants and other businesses who rack up huge debts and simply close and then start again under a new name.
Everybody who was owed money is shafted.

I understand about limited/unlimited companies but the balance at the moment makes it to easy to just walk away Scott free and start again.

The problem business and owners should be held to account and be more liable.

green123

Penfailed wrote: »

In the eyes of the law, the company that supplied the blocks no longer exists. The father handed the business to the sons and changed the name slightly. The builder that built our house is no longer in business either...

The law needs to change.

Far to easy currently for businesses to just walk away and start fresh.

There has to be some balance and fairness and common sense in the law

malinheader

green123 wrote: »

Were the government and councils in other counties testing blocks in them years?

Were government and councils supposed to test according to some industry standards?

If that's the case then maybe the suppliers are only partly to blame

Perhaps this is why Cassidys are getting off scot free.
Maybe it's too big a can of worms to open to really see who wasn't doing their job to make sure that the blocks met the right standards.
Saying this there is still no excuse for not putting cement in blocks, surely they knew the outcome.

jj880

green123 wrote: »

The law needs to change.

Far to easy currently for businesses to just walk away and start fresh.

There has to be some balance and fairness and common sense in the law

Happened all over the country. Companies liquidated and paid nobody. A few years later same lads doing same work in the same premises. Company in another family members name. Just the name changed above the door. These @ssholes then have the neck to post pictures of their new cars and houses on facebook for everyone they didn't pay to see. It seems the only fool in Ireland these days is an honest fool.

I dont have mica (yet) as my blocks came from N Ireland but I have family and friends who are soul destroyed over this. I will be at the protests.

malinheader

jj880 wrote: »

Happened all over the country. Companies liquidated and paid nobody. A few years later same lads doing same work in the same premises. Company in another family members name. Just the name changed above the door. These @ssholes then have the neck to post pictures of their new cars and houses on facebook for everyone they didn't pay to see. It seems the only fool in Ireland these days is an honest fool.

I dont have mica (yet) as my blocks came from N Ireland but I have family and friends who are soul destroyed over this. I will be at the protests.

+1 to that. Hopefully a massive turnout.

muffler

Lets not forget about the Building Control Dept. of the Council whose job was to carry out random inspections of both materials and workmanship. They didnt have to go into hiding as they were already there for years.

NIMAN

Accountability does not exist in Ireland.

And as for leaving a pile of debt behind and still operating, sure you only have to look at some of the big name property developers in this country, who left hundreds of millions in unpaid debt, yet they are back at the business again.

Only in Ireland.

malinheader

As I stated in an earlier post like some others I am not affected by this issue directly but like so many I have friends, neighbour's and family who have had their lives destroyed. I don't think there's to many in Donegal who doesn't know someone who has been affected by this so I really hope that the protest will be supported by people from all over to support and demonstrate that we are all behind these people in their fight for justice. Enough is enough.

babybuilder

muffler wrote: »

Lets not forget about the Building Control Dept. of the Council whose job was to carry out random inspections of both materials and workmanship. They didnt have to go into hiding as they were already there for years.

You've hit the nail on the head. No inspections, no proper regulatory practices. Remember that the first thing Enda Kenny did when he became Taoiseach was to scrap the inquiry into planning "irregularities" In Donegal. Rotten to the core. But remember lots of builders and their clients were up to their necks in it.
Follow the money if you want to get to the bottom of it. As an aside does anyone know how many officials/civil servants have been prosecuted or fired for corruption/incompetence in Donegal?

NIMAN

I see Charlie McConnellogue getting a lot of online abuse for refusing to talk to a couple of protesters. And sneaking out the back door of his office. Those who let down the public will be remembered the next time we all come to vote.

And on the subject of voting, I'm not sold on all the praise that Sinn Fein are now getting from the FB group. They appear to have jumped on the bandwagon, as it's the populist thing to do.

Where were SF over the last couple of years? Same as everyone else, nowhere.

malinheader

NIMAN wrote: »

I see Charlie McConnellogue getting a lot of online abuse for refusing to talk to a couple of protesters. And sneaking out the back door of his office. Those who let down the public will be remembered the next time we all come to vote.

And on the subject of voting, I'm not sold on all the praise that Sinn Fein are now getting from the FB group. They appear to have jumped on the bandwagon, as it's the populist thing to do.

Where were SF over the last couple of years? Same as everyone else, nowhere.

Charlie has his seat at the big table now and probably doesn't need to speak to the ordinary man now till election time again.
Albert and Martin came on and spoke about the urgency of a meeting with the council ,the result was another meeting in 2 weeks time.
The simple truth is that the graffiti that was painted outside of the site In Carndonagh and the video of the houses destroyed by these blocks and speaking out about complete farce of a redress scheme and the blocking of the site has done more in 2 weeks than any of these councillors or td's have done.
When will people ever realise when these people get their feet under the table they don't care. And that goes for every party.
People power and demonstrating is the only hope of getting something really done as nothing else over the Last number of years has worked.

Penfailed

malinheader wrote: »

A relative of mine paid 5700 for block test. I know 90% you get back but where did this price come from. Sounds ludicrous to me.

Penfailed wrote: »

I paid in that region too. Cores taken and reinstated. Cores sent to a lab for testing. Test results back to engineer. Engineer compiles his report. Nothing is cheap these days and chartered engineers are always expensive!

I should add...that price includes VAT. The government are getting 23% of that money. It's not all going to the engineer. Sickening.

malinheader

Penfailed wrote: »

I should add...that price includes VAT. The government are getting 23% of that money. It's not all going to the engineer. Sickening.

Disgusting more like.

jj880

malinheader wrote: »

Disgusting more like.

It is disgusting. No VAT should be taken at any stage of redress on any labour or materials. Government got enough the first time the houses were built.

Swindled

The campaign in my opinion is in danger of missing the main problems of the scheme and getting them addressed.
Everything else is a red-herring and wasting time / diverting from the real problem.
There is no point in looking for vengeance against anyone at this stage.
None of the below is intentionally aimed at taking a dig or a pot shot at anyone, so please don't read it that way, it's aimed at getting the issue resolved for us all and future generations.

1. This should not be a grant style scheme, it should be a compensation scheme. No other malpractice is addressed with a grant style process. (Don't let anyone hide behind weasel wording here, it is a grant style scheme). It's time to stop penalising the homeowners effected.

2. Contractors/suppliers will always raise their prices to obtain max grant limits/take advantage if possible. This is not a dig at them, this is just a fact of business. This is another reason a grant like process instead of a proper compensation scheme is a totally flawed approach in this situation.

3. The house owner, as in any other negligence case, should also be compensated for the distress and hardship caused, and the huge amount of personal hours it will take them to organise the re-construction of their homes. Families have been broken and destroyed by this, people have taken their lives over this.

4. The maximum "grant" limits are insufficient for many houses, someone who happens to have a larger house should not be penalised and left that they are not compensated fully. The costs should also be reviewed every year and adjusted as necessary to fit market conditions / inflation / supply and demand.

5. It should be 100% compensation, and the costs of storing furniture and renting alternative accommodation, and other costs should be provided for.
VAT that is going back to the government anyway should not be included in the grant limits.
Homeowners cannot be expected to have to qualify and apply for a second mortgage / loans for this work. Many can barely afford their existing home loan payments, never mind qualify for additional ones, with the added stress and financial pressure this brings.

6. Impractical nonsense like asking people to carefully dismantle, remove, transport and store and put back in 20 year windows, doors, kitchens, bathrooms other fittings etc. should be scrapped, it's not practical and very costly, and who would put that into a new construction ? Again how could such a house be sold again?

7. One of the worst clauses is the ban on anyone qualifying for a grant that buys any house after 2020. This means someone not willing or able to have the work done, like an older/ill person, effectively can never sell their house to a younger / fitter / more able person who is.

8. Settling for the exact terms and conditions as the Leinster Government's Pyrite Scheme for the Leinster people is a tactical MISTAKE. The detailed terms and conditions of that scheme may not be enough / suitable for this situation. We need a specific fix for this situation in this locality, not a second hand copy of another scheme.

9. Evasion proof Laws regarding the proper regular compulsory testing of all blocks need to be brought in, and ENFORCED. No more of these pretend regulations, pretend compliance, pretend/irregular testing, and pretend enforcement on paper, or this is going to happen all over again, all over Ireland. If only the industry/regulations/governance/enforcement were put through the same rigorous screening and due diligence the homeowner is for this scheme, none of this would have happened. If not, it will continue to happen / happen again, and the taxpayer will be left with the tab again.

10. There needs to be some guarantee that if replacement of the outer leaf does not work in the long term, and the inner leaf/rising walls continue to deteriorate, then further financial support/compensation will be available for the homeowner, and anyone who buys a house with this work done. Otherwise we can't have full confidence in this option, nor can buyers. It has not been tired and tested on a large scale over the long term.

11. All divisive party politics, point scoring, political games, and bull**** needs to be put aside, and we should demand that all politicians and parties unite in this matter for the good of Donegal. - If they don't then we need to elect single issue candidates, and put all the rest out until they do unite on this issue and get it sorted. Getting votes anyway, anyhow, is the ONLY thing politicians and parties care about, and the only hold over them we have. Nothing else. Political words/statements and commitments are meaningless, we need their action. (Again not a dig at them, that's just the reality of politics everywhere)

The above is a non exhaustive list of just some of the problems with the current scheme, I'm sure there are more that others can also add to the campaign.

---

Even if you don't have Mica, this has huge implications for your community, family and friends, and any future house buyer or seller, and the future supply of safe adequate dependable housing for Donegal.

No one is safe/immune from the fall out from this, and either Mica and/or Pyrite or undesirable minerals are present in all Donegal quarry aggregate, but its negative effects were masked/hidden in the past by erroring on the safe side with a higher cement content. Just because your house has not deteriorated yet, is no guarantee you do not have it, and given a long enough timespan it still can deteriorate.

I don't know any of the lead campaigners/politicians, but I would be very grateful if the above points can be brought to their attention, or we'll all be back at square one again in a few years. Please also put on Facebook elsewhere etc. if you can, as I don't use it. Stay strong, stay together.

Penfailed

Swindled wrote: »

I don't know any of the lead campaigners/politicians, but I would be very grateful if the above points can be brought to their attention, or we'll all be back at square one again in a few years. Please also put on Facebook elsewhere etc. if you can, as I don't use it. Stay strong, stay together.

Great post. You should send it in an email to the Mica Action Group. The only email address I could find is - registered@micaactiongroup.com

Swindled

Penfailed wrote: »

Great post. You should send it in an email to the Mica Action Group. The only email address I could find is - registered micaactiongroup.com

Thanks I will, I seen that address, but have no idea if it's still functioning / monitored.

I also think it would be far more effective if lots of people were sending/making similar points to Councillors and TD's as well as the Mica action group.
The local Councillors and TD's email addresses are out there as well.

One voice/post is not enough, but a collective group hopefully will be. I don't pretend have all the answers, and just wanted to mention some critical points and flaws in the scheme that I think are being overlooked/missed and that I haven't heard much of elsewhere.

This might be our one chance to fix this scheme, it's doubtful we'll ever get a second chance.

Penfailed

Swindled wrote: »

Thanks I will, I seen that address, but have no idea if it's still functioning / monitored.
I also think it would be far more effective if lots of people were sending/making similar points to Councillors and TD's as well as the Mica action group. One voice/post is not enough.

I was one voice that spurred on the recent groundswell.

Pique

Lovely carry on

https://www.reddit.com/r/Donegal/comments/ngk7w3/a_representative_from_cassidys_concrete_prank/

Penfailed

Pique wrote: »

Lovely carry on

https://www.reddit.com/r/Donegal/comments/ngk7w3/a_representative_from_cassidys_concrete_prank/

I saw this yesterday. The new generation of Cassidy don't give a fúck either. He apparently rang back again later to apologise. I'd say he was told to by his father!

malinheader

Pique wrote: »

Lovely carry on

https://www.reddit.com/r/Donegal/comments/ngk7w3/a_representative_from_cassidys_concrete_prank/

The link seems to be deleted now. Must of been interesting.