The Curse of Defective Concrete (Mica, Pyrrhotite, etc.) in Donegal homes - Read Mod warning Post 1

Fann Linn

FFG kicking this can down the road again according to News at One. Probably waiting for those homes to fall into the sea before they do anything.

John_Rambo

malinheader wrote: »

Think we should be more worried about Donegal taking Delta from Dublin. Do you not think.

No, Donegal has consistently had higher numbers of covid per population than Dublin.

However, welcome to the capital, the best of luck with your march, I genuinely hope you get results. Please respect the city, practice good covid hygiene & bin or take your rubbish home with you.

NIMAN

John_Rambo wrote: »

Please respect the city, practice good covid hygiene & bin or take your rubbish home with you.

Is that serious?

We're not savages ffs.

NIMAN

If this isn't the main topic on LiveLine today it will be absolute disgrace.

It's been mostly ignored so far by the programme. Got a short mention yesterday.

But it would be advantageous if the 400,000 listeners could actually hear what is going on in these houses up here.

Fann Linn

NIMAN wrote: »

If this isn't the main topic on LiveLine today it will be absolute disgrace.

It's been mostly ignored so far by the programme. Got a short mention yesterday.

But it would be advantageous if the 400,000 listeners could actually hear what is going on in these houses up here.

It's a non story for Lavelahn as opposed to Sharon who got her car lifted by bailiffs because she didn't pay her toll.

malinheader

John_Rambo wrote: »

No, Donegal has consistently had higher numbers of covid per population than Dublin.

However, welcome to the capital, the best of luck with your march, I genuinely hope you get results. Please respect the city, practice good covid hygiene & bin or take your rubbish home with you.

Thanks. But the poster referred to the Delta strain which is for now mostly in the east of the country.
I'm sure all aspects of hygiene and cleanliness will be respected, it's just a pity it has come to this.

trixi001

There is so much misinformation here

Basically, 5000+ houses built in North Donegal from 1999 to 2013 roughly, are affected by this..it is Basically every house in this area as almost all builder used the sames blocks..some homes are very lucky that for whatever reason, there builder used a different block supplier

It's irrelevant if the homes are self built or developer built, the issue isn't with the build quality. There are 1000's of houses in housing estates built by developers affected.

Perhaps it's in some people's best interest to play on the people built their own massive mansions on cheap land in Donegal..why should the rest of the country pay for them to rebuild them.., could they not build a smaller home within the cap provided..the answer is they can't, for get the grants, the house must be a straight like for like replacement, and kitchens, bathrooms, windows etc all must be reused..and therefore they have to pay for storage etc..

If any home owner wants to build a a smaller house, they need to apply for planning permission, build the house to current standards, purchase new kitchens, bathrooms etc..could finish up costing much more than rebuilding their old house, and definitely taking longer to do.

As for why are the builders not responsible, we'll technically they probably are as they supplied the blocks,..but there wouldn't be a single builder left in the area if they were all forced to pay for this and they wouldn't be able to get insurance if their insurance paid out

Why are the block manufacturers not responsible..well they are, but it's been restructured so not sure the original business exists to claim against..and it would have to be the builder claiming from the supplier as they have the contract with them.. all of this means a delay, means more houses falling down..and more expensive fixes

This issue came to light over 10 years ago, if the redress scheme was started earlier the costs wouldn't be as high...outer leafs could have been replaced for many houses that now need demolished..

The most important reason why 100% redress needs paid is because a precedent has been set, why should a homeowner in Dublin get their house rebuilt and fixed when the blocks are crumbling, but not a homeowner in Donegal?

Does it matter if the house is in the East or West of Ireland..the house is still someone's home..do all families across Ireland not deserve access to the same redress?


Why was the original pyrite scheme only designed to cover certain counties, why not all..why should someone in Mayo who discovers they have pyrite have to fight for redress, whereas someone in Kildare can apply to a scheme that exists...

Yes, fixing mica will be more expensive, but that is due to the sheer number of houses and the scale of the problem, and also because it took 10 years for a redress scheme..so the fixes are now more expensive...

Letting people fix their homes is a priority, the funds could be found to pay for covid and PUP..so they can be found for this..if the funds are there for 90% why not 100%...is it because the government knows 90% means nowhere near 90%, and even getting onto scheme inaccessible for many as it requires €5k+ testing costs...

I do think more issues Will come to light and the government need a long term strategy to deal with this..first pyrite, then mica..what's next..how much will it cost..and more importantly how do we ensure it doesn't happen again?

Northernlily

John_Rambo wrote: »

No, Donegal has consistently had higher numbers of covid per population than Dublin.

However, welcome to the capital, the best of luck with your march, I genuinely hope you get results. Please respect the city, practice good covid hygiene & bin or take your rubbish home with you.

If only we Dubliners took that advice ourselves. Just back from lunch in the city centre the place is a tip as always. Not worthy of welcoming our Donegal friends or anyone for that matter.

CastorTroy

At least rte are reporting on it on their site.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0615/1228247-mica-protest/

And a tweet containing pictures linked in that article
https://twitter.com/TommyMeskill/status/1404777560840474625

muffler

John_Rambo wrote: »

No, Donegal has consistently had higher numbers of covid per population than Dublin.

However, welcome to the capital, the best of luck with your march, I genuinely hope you get results. Please respect the city, practice good covid hygiene & bin or take your rubbish home with you.

Welcome to the Donegal forum. Warning given for that bit of Dublin rabble.


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NIMAN

MrMusician18 wrote: »

No, I came to give an alternative view. Not to rattle cages or upset anyone. And my view is that the State is not responsible here and it's unreasonable to expect a blank cheque from the rest of us to resolve it.

Such huge demands ought to be challenged. All we've gotten from the traditional media so far is softball interviews and "ara it's terrible" coverage.

Those suffering through this have my sympathy of course. Sympathy doesn't mean unlimited support though.

Unfortunately the government have set a precedent with the east coast Pyrite scheme in the past. It will be hard for them to now try to tell other citizens that they aren't to be treated the same.

John_Rambo

Northernlily wrote: »

If only we Dubliners took that advice ourselves. Just back from lunch in the city centre the place is a tip as always. Not worthy of welcoming our Donegal friends or anyone for that matter.

I'm there now, it's midweek, and as usual spotless. No rubbish around. Hopefully it remains that way.

NIMAN

John_Rambo wrote: »

I'm there now, it's midweek, and as usual spotless. No rubbish around. Hopefully it remains that way.

Could you keep this irrelevant argument out of the thread please.

Go to pm if you want to discuss the cleanliness of Dublin city centre.

John_Rambo

muffler wrote: »

Welcome to the Donegal forum. Warning given for that bit of Dublin rabble.

Welcome to the capital if you're marching Muffler. I hope you enjoy it, pm me if you need any advice on where to visit, eat ec....

Thanks for the warning, although I used manners and was completely respectful and wished the marchers well.

muffler

Furze99 wrote: »

Donegal brings Delta to Dublin - let's hope for all our sakes that this is not the story in a couple of weeks time............

At best this march and all the travel involved on buses etc is ill conceived. At worst it's reckless and will we see the organisers jailed if it turns out bad?

Welcome to the Donegal forum. Warning given.


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muffler

Leave it young Rambo.


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jimmycrackcorm

muffler wrote: »

Hopefully you never have to live in a house affected by mica.

It's not just that, but I'll be moving back to Donegal in the future and when it comes to buying a house, I'll be staying clear of any for sale built in the Mica years.

Unless rebuilt, they'll be questionable even if they have had some repairs.

Furze99

This is only an issue because numbers are involved. If it were just half a dozen dwellings, the owners would be told go sing for their supper. So should an issue be dealt with in one manner just because there are enough people to pile the pressure on local representatives?

We seem to be talking conservatively about €1 billion to deliver what people are loudly demanding. This is mad money and you can't compare to the so called pyrite issues. This is the Republic of Ireland not the London government and the sort of money they have poured into counties across the border over past couple decades.

MrMusician18

NIMAN wrote: »

Unfortunately the government have set a precedent with the east coast Pyrite scheme in the past. It will be hard for them to now try to tell other citizens that they aren't to be treated the same.

I thought it was called The Pyrite Remediation Scheme.
I hate this playing regions off one another.

The payouts of the current scheme are estimated to be twice those of the Pyrite one per claim. The problem is the huge cost of resolving the issues. If it was a cheap as pyrite you'd get 100%. The difference is that the ask is much larger than the pyrite one, so they are not comparable.

Because there is so much money involved and the resolution is very much individual to the house (pyrite was largely estate houses so costs between houses could be compared) there is a real risk of costs going out of control. If the homeowner has no stake in controlling the cost who does?

That's why grants have to be capped and why the homeowner needs to be involved in putting their own money in.

Ace2007

Furze99 wrote: »

This is only an issue because numbers are involved. If it were just half a dozen dwellings, the owners would be told go sing for their supper. So should an issue be dealt with in one manner just because there are enough people to pile the pressure on local representatives?

We seem to be talking conservatively about €1 billion to deliver what people are loudly demanding. This is mad money and you can't compare to the so called pyrite issues. This is the Republic of Ireland not the London government and the sort of money they have poured into counties across the border over past couple decades.

Just like the apartments that failed the fire safety regulations and the owners were forced to pay up themselves - not the government - why was that?

If this was a large investment fund lobbying the government for a blank cheque to fix issues with apartment blocks for instance - would people be ok with tax payers handing over billions??? I seriously doubt it - and this is what the government have to ensure that they don't end up opening themselves to all sort of claims in the future.

I see it reported that Minister for Housing Darragh O'Brien will meet a delegation of homeowners impacted by the issue today, and that the government are working through submission from the action group.

Minister for Housing Darragh O’Brien said he and his department have been working through submissions from the action group “which we received five weeks ago

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/q-a-what-is-mica-and-why-are-people-protesting-over-it-1.4593301

NIMAN

MrMusician18 wrote: »

That's why grants have to be capped and why the homeowner needs to be involved in putting their own money in.

What if people haven't got 50k to 100k to put in?

Just tell them tough luck?

As for playing regions off against one another, well when you treat citizens from one region completely different to ones from another area, you kind of stoke the flames.

NIMAN

....And LiveLine update, we have had kids rescued from the water (despite taking up entire show yesterday), a guy who delivered clothes to a customer, noisy HGVs going through a village, and now buzzards attacking joggers.

You couldn't make it up.
The show is a disgrace.

ednwireland

NIMAN wrote: »

....And LiveLine update, we have had kids rescued from the water (despite taking up entire show yesterday), a guy who delivered clothes to a customer, noisy HGVs going through a village, and now buzzards attacking joggers.

You couldn't make it up.
The show is a disgrace.

its always ? been like that you honestly didnt expect them to cover this did you

NIMAN

ednwireland wrote: »

its always ? been like that you honestly didnt expect them to cover this did you

I honestly did.

Why wouldn't they?

He chatted about the menopause for 3 fecking weeks!

Not sure how a buzzards attacking a jogger is more worthy of airtime.

MrMusician18

NIMAN wrote: »

What if people haven't got 50k to 100k to put in?

Just tell them tough luck?

As for playing regions off against one another, well when you treat citizens from one region completely different to ones from another area, you kind of stoke the flames.

What's the answer then, a free for all? Just accept whatever cost the homeowners come up with as it??

timmyntc

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What's the answer then, a free for all? Just accept whatever cost the homeowners come up with as it??

Fixed price per sqft should the house need rebuilt maybe?
Area of the house is not really open to interpretation - its quantifiable. As are building costs per sqft.

You're really stretching here to try discredit any future redress scheme.

Furze99

Best solution might to plan/ build new housing estates of 'grant sized' houses on green field sites, invite all affected to apply. Then demolish all the affected buildings. That would control costs, provide housing and offer a people of choice of whether to take it up or sort themselves out within their own resources.

muffler

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What's the answer then, a free for all? Just accept whatever cost the homeowners come up with as it??

Drop the attitude mate. First it was blank cheques and now its just a rehash of the same. Not one single person has asked for this so no need for you to state otherwise ... repeatedly. No more please.

Ace2007

timmyntc wrote: »

Fixed price per sqft should the house need rebuilt maybe?
Area of the house is not really open to interpretation - its quantifiable. As are building costs per sqft.

You're really stretching here to try discredit any future redress scheme.

Yea fixed price or cap on max price per sqft and then even have a 0% VAT on the cost of material and builders costs - this would reduce the cost of the project of each house.

There needs to be something though to ensure the builder doesn't quote a high figure purely because the state is picking up the bill and that's where the homeowner comes in.

Dempo1

NIMAN wrote: »

....And LiveLine update, we have had kids rescued from the water (despite taking up entire show yesterday), a guy who delivered clothes to a customer, noisy HGVs going through a village, and now buzzards attacking joggers.

You couldn't make it up.
The show is a disgrace.

You could and he does, Joe Duffy, an absolute clown