New-ish car... no service record?

westtipp

Currently in the process of buying a 3 year old diesel car (67k mls) from a main dealer. I asked about the service history and was told the service book wasn't in the car when they got it (from another dealer) so I asked them if they could find out who sold the car originally so that I could check if they had any history for the car.
Meanwhile I called the manufacturers head office and they say that the original seller was the garage I'm buying it off now. I suppose it's possible that the original buyer bought it there and had it serviced elsewhere, but I'm surprised the service book is missing.....
Should I be worried?

racso1975

Garage knew they sold it originally and never said it to you. Looking at the situation it's like a repeat customer traded it in. Personally I'd walk away if they are not being up front and why risk a car, particularly diesel having not being serviced in 3 years.

Alanstrainor

racso1975 wrote: »

Garage knew they sold it originally and never said it to you. Looking at the situation it's like a repeat customer traded it in. Personally I'd walk away if they are not being up front and why risk a car, particularly diesel having not being serviced in 3 years.

I'd agree. Something not lining up. There is a chance that no servicing was done in that time, in fact if there is no stamps for the work I would take that as fact. Walk away I'd say.

mickdw

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I'd agree. Something not lining up. There is a chance that no servicing was done in that time, in fact if there is no stamps for the work I would take that as fact. Walk away I'd say.

Run away. They supplied the car new. I'd suggest that even if it never saw an oil change, they would put something like initial service and service now into its records.
The fact that there is nothing at all being produced would suggest to me that there are records that they don't want you to see.

Henry Ford III

Buy a similar car with a fsh.

zilog_jones

Surely main dealers have databases for service history these days?

R.O.R

What kind of car is it? Some vehicles have electronic service histories now so may not have a service book at all.

my3cents

OP, you can prove that you have been lied to once, how many more lies do you think they will tell you to sell the car?

westtipp

zilog_jones wrote: »

Surely main dealers have databases for service history these days?

That's what I'm hoping

westtipp

R.O.R wrote: »

What kind of car is it? Some vehicles have electronic service histories now so may not have a service book at all.

Seat Toledo

westtipp

my3cents wrote: »

OP, you can prove that you have been lied to once, how many more lies do you think they will tell you to sell the car?

They have gone off to research it. They are adamant the car is 100% and are giving me a full 12 month warranty. AFAIK the car in question was entitled to 3 years free servicing when new so it makes no sense.

TheBoyConor

I don't get why people are so fussy about fsh. Sure a dealer could just fabricate a service history if they wanted - get out a new service book and throw a few stamps into it. It really means nothing.

ravendude

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I don't get why people are so fussy about fsh. Sure a dealer could just fabricate a service history if they wanted - get out a new service book and throw a few stamps into it. It really means nothing.

It means they have to cross a significant line and commit criminal fraud, - so it means a lot. Main dealers generally would be pretty stupid to  risk losing a dealership over such a thing, whatever about "trade" dealers.

raxy

Seat don't give 3 years free servicing with new cars. I have a 3yr old Leon. Whet I bought it I paid extra for a 3 year/45k km service plan, basically 3 services. Cost €200 at the time
The seat services are every 15k km so even if the original owner paid for the service plan it ended at 45k km. That plan would also require the services to be carried out in a seat garage so they should be able to find that info out easily.

bazz26

Alot of those Toledos were lease/rentals at some point so I'd be asking the dealer about that too.

rainbowtrout

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I don't get why people are so fussy about fsh. Sure a dealer could just fabricate a service history if they wanted - get out a new service book and throw a few stamps into it. It really means nothing.

A faked service history would require backdating records in computerized databases, making up a list of jobs that were done in a specific garage which may not be anywhere near to the owner of the car.

I traded my car in recently, it had also come with a service pack when I bought it and had those three services at the main dealer. The following service before I sold it was also at a main dealer. The garage where I traded were able to ring the main dealer and get a copy of all of the work done on the car in the last three years, every filter, every oil change etc.

It's a bit more than just a stamp in a book these days.

bazz26

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I don't get why people are so fussy about fsh. Sure a dealer could just fabricate a service history if they wanted - get out a new service book and throw a few stamps into it. It really means nothing.

As long as there are fools out there who accept buying cars without a shred of evidence to prove they were serviced regularly and properly along with verifying the mileage then there will always be cute hoors and chancers out there selling them. A 3 year old diesel car with a claimed low mileage of 67k should have some sort of service history to prove it.

rainbowtrout

westtipp wrote: »

They have gone off to research it. They are adamant the car is 100% and are giving me a full 12 month warranty. AFAIK the car in question was entitled to 3 years free servicing when new so it makes no sense.

Sounds dodgy. They shouldn't need to research anything. They know they sold the car, so if it was serviced by them they would be able to bring up the service record on computer. If it was serviced in another Seat garage I'd imagine it wouldn't be too hard to get it from there either. And I can't imagine there are too many people out there that wouldn't avail of free servicing if it came with the car, over paying for it elsewhere.

According to the Seat website there are only 22 main dealers in the country. Service Plan is an option, it's not inclusive. None of the offers on the website show an inclusive Service Plan.

The car might never have been serviced hence the missing book. The dealer might have removed it to hide that fact.

Leonard Hofstadter

As the others have said, run away and fast. Those Toledos aren't even that nice anyway, there are far better options out there.

Ryath

The service plan is offered as part of the deal on some promotions. We got it on our Leon two years ago.

Shefwedfan

Is the car significantly cheaper than others?

or why after the dealer has been caught out lying are you still looking at buying it?

westtipp

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Is the car significantly cheaper than others?

or why after the dealer has been caught out lying are you still looking at buying it?

I wouldn't say they are lying. I'm dealing with a young salesman who may not have been aware of the cars' history. The ball is in their court - if they can provide plausible history, I'll buy it. If not, I'll buy elsewhere.

westtipp

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Is the car significantly cheaper than others?

or why after the dealer has been caught out lying are you still looking at buying it?

Not really cheaper, but it's the only auto one I could find.

my3cents

westtipp wrote: »

I wouldn't say they are lying. I'm dealing with a young salesman who may not have been aware of the cars' history. The ball is in their court - if they can provide plausible history, I'll buy it. If not, I'll buy elsewhere.

I find it very hard to believe that a dealership wouldn't know they were reselling a car they had sold new.

rainbowtrout

westtipp wrote: »

I wouldn't say they are lying. I'm dealing with a young salesman who may not have been aware of the cars' history. The ball is in their court - if they can provide plausible history, I'll buy it. If not, I'll buy elsewhere.

If a Seat garage has taken in a Seat car in a trade in, surely one of the first things they would do would be to check and see if it was one of their own? Even at that, if the customer was presumably buying another Seat, it would have been mentioned in conversation at some point? Salesmen are supposed to know something about the cars they are selling, it's part of their job.

Shefwedfan

westtipp wrote: »

I wouldn't say they are lying. I'm dealing with a young salesman who may not have been aware of the cars' history. The ball is in their court - if they can provide plausible history, I'll buy it. If not, I'll buy elsewhere.

Not much of a salesman if he doesn't know what car they originally sold


Most garages see this as a huge plus as they will tell you all aout the history


Seeing as they dont want to it suggest something dodgy in that history

westtipp

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not much of a salesman if he doesn't know what car they originally sold


Most garages see this as a huge plus as they will tell you all aout the history

Seeing as they dont want to it suggest something dodgy in that history

They now say the car has always been theirs but they transferred it to their agri division as a demo. It was serviced by the agri division hence no service records exist. From there it went back to where it came from via a local Audi dealer.

Sound plausible....?

Mooooo

Move on, Skoda vw and Audi should have plenty autos with similar cars, granted vw and Audi may be more expensive

Shefwedfan

westtipp wrote: »

They now say the car has always been theirs but they transferred it to their agri division as a demo. It was serviced by the agri division hence no service records exist. From there it went back to where it came from via a local Audi dealer.

Sound plausible....?

Load of bulls**t

rainbowtrout

westtipp wrote: »

They now say the car has always been theirs but they transferred it to their agri division as a demo. It was serviced by the agri division hence no service records exist. From there it went back to where it came from via a local Audi dealer.

Sound plausible....?

But if it was sold to a member of the public then surely if that person got it serviced there would be a record somewhere, and if the agri division (do Seat have an agri division?) would have the records. If they are part of the same company they should be easily retrieved. If it ended up in an Audi dealer's as claimed, then it was sold at some point, so it wasn't 'always theirs'. But also, there isn't a single advert on carzone, done deal or seat ireland for an automatic Seat Toledo. Surely it would appear on one of them if it was legit.

bazz26

westtipp wrote: »

They now say the car has always been theirs but they transferred it to their agri division as a demo. It was serviced by the agri division hence no service records exist. From there it went back to where it came from via a local Audi dealer.

Sound plausible....?

They are feeding you a cock n bull story. I bet the name of that garage is Pinocchio Motors and their nose is growing longer with every word they say.

Walk away and keep looking elsewhere. A Toledo is not worth the drama of their story asking more questions than answers. Did you look at the Skoda Rapid, it's the exact same car as the Toledo?

westtipp

bazz26 wrote: »

They are feeding you a cock n bull story. I bet the name of that garage is Pinocchio Motors and their nose is growing longer with every word they say.

Walk away and keep looking elsewhere. A Toledo is not worth the drama of their story asking more questions than answers. Did you look at the Skoda Rapid, it's the exact same car as the Toledo?

Will do. Thanks

westtipp

rainbowtrout wrote: »

But if it was sold to a member of the public then surely if that person got it serviced there would be a record somewhere, and if the agri division (do Seat have an agri division?) would have the records. If they are part of the same company they should be easily retrieved. If it ended up in an Audi dealer's as claimed, then it was sold at some point, so it wasn't 'always theirs'. But also, there isn't a single advert on carzone, done deal or seat ireland for an automatic Seat Toledo. Surely it would appear on one of them if it was legit.

There was only one on Carzone but it's been taken down since I have a deposit on it. That's where I found it.
Not Seat agri, but the garage's agri group.

road_high

westtipp wrote: »

There was only one on Carzone but it's been taken down since I have a deposit on it. That's where I found it.
Not Seat agri, but the garage's agri group.

Wouldn't happen to be in a certain town in wexford? I know of one that happens to sell Seats and New Holland. The story is complete bull and in reality they likely haven't a notion where/when the car was serviced (if at all). Much better cars and propositions for your money out there than an unknown Toledo.

westtipp

rainbowtrout wrote: »

But if it was sold to a member of the public then surely if that person got it serviced there would be a record somewhere, and if the agri division (do Seat have an agri division?) would have the records. If they are part of the same company they should be easily retrieved. If it ended up in an Audi dealer's as claimed, then it was sold at some point, so it wasn't 'always theirs'. But also, there isn't a single advert on carzone, done deal or seat ireland for an automatic Seat Toledo. Surely it would appear on one of them if it was legit.

Have decided to walk away. Thanks for all your inputs. Will I get my holding deposit back??

road_high

westtipp wrote: »

There was only one on Carzone but it's been taken down since I have a deposit on it. That's where I found it.
Not Seat agri, but the garage's agri group.

Will you get your deposit back? More than entitled to it obviously as the car being sold doesn't match what was agreed but it's clear they're already chancers so nothing would surprise me.

mickdw

There is a possibility that the agri story is legit but they were covering for a reason. It could have been a reps car that will have covered many many miles with little care taken of it.
It's nothing special car wise, keep looking.

Casati

road_high wrote: »

Wouldn't happen to be in a certain town in wexford? I know of one that happens to sell Seats and New Holland. The story is complete bull and in reality they likely haven't a notion where/when the car was serviced (if at all). Much better cars and propositions for your money out there than an unknown Toledo.

I believe that dealer supplies a lot of cars to rental companies, and small auto’s like that are the type of car some rental companies lease for two/ three years. My money is on it being an ex rental car

OldMrBrennan83

road_high wrote: »

Wouldn't happen to be in a certain town in wexford? I know of one that happens to sell Seats and New Holland. The story is complete bull and in reality they likely haven't a notion where/when the car was serviced (if at all). Much better cars and propositions for your money out there than an unknown Toledo.

If it's the same one I'm thinking of then I wouldn't go near them anyway. I know a lad bought a Leon a few years ago and after looking there he ended up buying in Castlecomer for nearly €2k cheaper. The salesman in said garage went wrong altogether and absolutely harrassred him on the phone numerous times for not buying more local and then called Castlecomer threatening to put ads on Kilkenny radio. Absolutely batshít spot.


_

road_high

Patww79 wrote: »

If it's the same one in thinking of then I wouldn't go near them anyway. I know a lad bought a Leon a few years ago and after looking there he ended up buying in Castlecomer for nearly €2k cheaper. The salesman in said garage went wrong altogether and absolutely harrassred him on the phone numerous times for not buying more local and then called Castlecomer threatening to put ads on Kilkenny radio. Absolutely batshít spot.

They sound deranged...if the same garage as the OP hence the cock and bull story!

westtipp

mickdw wrote: »

There is a possibility that the agri story is legit but they were covering for a reason. It could have been a reps car that will have covered many many miles with little care taken of it.
It's nothing special car wise, keep looking.

Seems most likely to me. In fairness, the car is spotless and I'm getting a 12 month warranty but the doubts persist so I'll have to refocus my search

road_high

westtipp wrote: »

Seems most likely to me. In fairness, the car is spotless and I'm getting a 12 month warranty but the doubts persist so I'll have to refocus my search

It could well be but modern-ish diesels really need on the button servicing and proof of same. Even absolute dogs can be tarted up to look “pristine” on the forecourt

westtipp

Casati wrote: »

I believe that dealer supplies a lot of cars to rental companies, and small auto’s like that are the type of car some rental companies lease for two/ three years. My money is on it being an ex rental car

In fairness they supplied a full history check and it states clearly that it wasn't a hire car.

Lantus

Agri group? Nonsense. It's a trap, get an axe.....

westtipp

Lantus wrote: »

Agri group? Nonsense. It's a trap, get an axe.....

Contacted dealer and told him I wouldn't be taking the car. In fairness he was fine about it. Getting my holding deposit back tomorrow.

Bought a Volvo V50 2.0D SE Auto today so alls well that ends well.