Titanium Roadbike Build...any advice?

Arequipa

Hi!
I hope you are all well!
I am looking at buying a ti frame over the winter months and building it up, with electronic gears, disk brakes, rimmed wheels, carbon fork, ..
The plan is to use as an all round bike but mainly for touring, adventures and some light off road stuff..So looking for a capacity to carry bike packing bags and racks with pannier bags... i don't ask for much!

I have looked at
1) Kinesis GT and ATR bikes
2) Curve Belgie Spirit
3) Planet X Ti bikes

I am looking for an endurance, long-distance all-day set up..

So any advice...are there some brands to watch out for or some that are always good quality..

Have any of you built such a bike?

Is it better value to buy parts, wheels, group sets etc separately? seems more fun to me..

Then when I manage...if I ever do to get all the bits and pieces...can you recommend a good mechanic to put it all together?


Sorry for all the questions...

I was also considering a 1x groupset ...I normally ride a 50/34 up front and 11/32 at the back... but some x1 group sets come close to this...


Thanks a mil for reading and I appreciate your feedback..


A

Lumen

Frame warranty is critical with Ti, they have a tendency to crack if there's any manufacturing defects, and it can take a long time.

I have a custom Enigma travel bike with S&S couplers. It's nice. It cracked at a head tube junction after a couple of years and was replaced with more or less the same (although I think they substituted steel couplers for the original Ti, and it's a bit heavier).

Arequipa

Thanks Lumen...yea.. I have read up a bit on Ti and it can seem to pose problems..

I suppose a good warranty will guard against this risk...
I think Kinesis had a x5 year warranty on the frame...

CantGetNoSleep

I'm thinking of doing the same, albeit more likely with steel.

Certainly not cheaper to buy everything separately compared to buying a full bike. I'm struggling to find good deals on something like a Shimano 105 or Sram 1x groupsets with hydraulic disc brakes - very few of them around at good prices it seems.

Arequipa

Steel will do the job for you...

What do they say.. got things come to those who wait... I hope you get a good deal on parts..

What frame makes are you looking at?

CantGetNoSleep

Arequipa wrote: »

Steel will do the job for you...

What do they say.. got things come to those who wait... I hope you get a good deal on parts..

What frame makes are you looking at?

I'll probably go for the Genesis Equilibrium Disc frameset - at this stage probably waiting for the 2019 model to launch, was also looking at an alu Kinesis though

C3PO

I’m in the process of building a Kenesis GF Ti Disc. I bought the frame at the start of the year and I’ve been slowly buying the rest of the bits as I can afford them! I have everything now except the groupset and hope to pull the trigger on that over the next couple of weeks. Really looking forward to getting it finished!

Arequipa

Hi.. wow that will be a lovely bike..
I am looking at the atr as it can do and go more offroad than the gt...

One thing of interest the warranty on Kenisis frames is only x3 years..

Are you building the bike yourself?

magicbastarder

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

I'll probably go for the Genesis Equilibrium Disc frameset - at this stage probably waiting for the 2019 model to launch

You're hoping to get a 2019 frame, or a discounted 2018 one?

Koobcam

I got a Titanium frame from a mate who runs a bike shop in Beijing and sells Beijing-made Titanium bikes and frames. Built it up with a mixture of Dura-Ace and Ultegra parts. Wheels are Dura-Ace c35. Best bike I've ever ridden and deceptively fast despite (or perhaps because of being less stiff than carbon. Also pretty sure it's the only frame of it's kind in Ireland. Happy to PM details to the OP if interested. Here's a link: http://www.serk.cc/titaniumroad/

CantGetNoSleep

magicbastarder wrote: »

You're hoping to get a 2019 frame, or a discounted 2018 one?

I was actually intending to buy a 2017 earlier this year but never got around to it, they are about half the price of the 2018 disc one, so will wait to see if 2018 drops similarly at this stage, think they launch the new model in Oct or Nov

Lewotsil

I bought a Kenesis GF Ti Disc in early 2017 but it took me over 6 months to get parts and get it built (by a mechanic - PM if you want me to give you name - he is in Drogheda)..... wasn't in a hurry to be honest to get it built.  I love the look(with the mudguards off it) and the feel.....it gets a lot of admiration from trained eyes.  One negative is that I still am not 100% happy on a saddle (but that is me not the bike).
I will say - despite looking at the measurements I found the bike bigger than I thought - I still haven't gotten around to a proper fit but am currently using a 80m(?) stem ...... I would prefer a longer stem to reduce the twithciness but am afraid of more stretch............really need to get fitted properly !
Ps - I don't think it works out cheaper tbh to build your own but its cool to put your own stamp on it .....I put red Hope Pro4s on wheelset and I love the look and feel of them.
Good luck with build

Arequipa

Good evening!
Thank you for the feedback and replies..
I had a look at the Serk bike website...are nice looking bikes and x5 year warranty...

Do Lynskey, Van Nicholas, Moots and these 'high end' brands produce better Ti bikes?
It is interesting that the really expensive brands have a ltd lifetime warranty.
Whereas Kinesis for example have just a x3 year warranty.
Curve have a x10 year warranty..

In terms of attaching a rear racks and hanging pannier bags...would a good, standard Ti frame be up to it...provided you stay well within the max allowable weights?

Thank you!

A

Lumen

GCN did a decent basic piece on Ti recently.

Interesting about the butting. When mine was specced they told me it couldn't be butted due to the couplers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6xz1EKbE3g

cunavalos

While some of these 5 or 10 year warranties look good on paper, there are often severe terms and conditions attached with such warranties.

Lynskey in particular have a poor reputation standing over their own warranty and a quick google on various cycling forums with confirm this.

My own experience with Ti is quite positive, i have a campagnolo chorus equipped Merlin Solis that is at least 10 years old and although confined to holiday use at the homeplace i actually find it the most comfortable bike i have.

A good place to look for a full Ti bike is spacycles in the UK https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s21p0/Bikes/Touring-Audax-and-Sportive

and also at what used to be the Fatbirds UK store now part of pedalrevolution https://store.pedalrevolution.co.uk/

Arequipa

Thanks Cunavalos...!!
Yea, i know what you mean about the strict terms for warranties..
I will check spa cycles & pedal revolution!

Mercian Pro

Got great service from Fatbirds when I bought my Van Nicholas there a few years ago. At the time, VN were doing a special price on a 105 or Ultegra build of the Ventus that pretty well matched the cost of buying the frame and components separately. Unfortunately the Ventus has since been discontinued and the cheapest VN is now considerably dearer.

On the subject of warranties, VN offer a "lifetime" warranty against manufacturer defects in material or workmanship and say that this is set at an average of 25 years. Details are at https://www.vannicholas.com/service/warranties/warranty-conditions.htm#items

doozerie

Arequipa wrote:

Do Lynskey, Van Nicholas, Moots and these 'high end' brands produce better Ti bikes?
It is interesting that the really expensive brands have a ltd lifetime warranty.
Whereas Kinesis for example have just a x3 year warranty.
Curve have a x10 year warranty..

My wife has a Lynskey, I have an Enigma. Both are off-the-shelf Ti frames as opposed to custom-fit - in the case of the Enigma that means it was constructed in a factory in Taiwan or China (can't recall which). I'm not sure what it means for the Lynskey, but I seem to recall that Lynskey marketing likes to emphasise that they build their frames in the US.

Whether where it was made makes any difference to a frame is subjective. My personal take on it is that it doesn't matter where stuff is made so long as the same standard of quality control is applied consistently. In the case of these frames, there is an issue with my Enigma in that one of the gear cable bosses is slightly out of position. It hasn't been a problem in practice but by contrast I found no issues whatsoever with the Lynskey.

Make of that what you will, maybe someone in an "Enigma factory" was having an off day (which basically amounts to poor quality control no matter which way I look at it), or maybe Lynskey frames are just made to a higher standard. The Lynskey certainly leaves a more positive impression though. An Enigma that was hand-built in the UK might be at least as well made as the Lynskey perhaps, but it would also be significantly more expensive.

As for frame warranty, while a lifetime warranty is certainly reassuring it may not stand the test of time. I recall a time when Kona used to offer a lifetime warranty on their frames but at some point they changed the terms and conditions so that it was only offered in very specific circumstances. I had a steel Kona MTB frame that snapped at a dropout, they fixed it (which took months), it snapped again at the same place and they refused to do anything with it. As valuable as a lifetime warranty is, if a company chooses to be an arse, the warranty is actually worth little.

For that reason it's probably worth doing some online searches for the reputation of companies whose frame you are considering buying. The Internet isn't always a reliable source of information of course, but it might at least flag companies that are repeat offenders.

Arequipa wrote:

In terms of attaching a rear racks and hanging pannier bags...would a good, standard Ti frame be up to it...provided you stay well within the max allowable weights?

Any frame, Ti or otherwise, that comes with attachment points for a pannier rack should be up to that, I'd consider the frame defective if it wasn't.

My wife's Lynskey has mudguard and pannier mount points on it (it's paired with the Lynskey Endurance Disc fork which also has mudguard eyelets). She rides audax and has done lots of single and multi-day events on that bike, and therefore clocked up *lots* of miles quite often with one or two panniers on the back, with no problems whatsoever. The pannier rack itself is a Tubus, rated for a max load of 20kg though I don't think she's ever pushed close to that weight limit.

Arequipa

Thank u for the feedback doozerie..
It is interesting that you self and your Wife both have ti frames and the enigma had the slight issue...
I get what you say about warranty.. it is worthless unless a company follows through or even escapes via some tiny terms or conditions...

The next issue I have is whether to go for a slightly bigger tyre clarance..say up to 28mm Tyres or get a frame that can handle up to 40mm tyres and so will handle a variety of terrains depending on the setup...
But the later frames tend, i my humble opinion to look less sleek and racy compared to the frames with narrower clearance..

Say the Kinesis GT versus the Kinesis Gtr

Have any of you any knowledge of the Aussie brand Curve?
I like their bikes...they have a really cool group of riders and supporters... they are based out of Melbourne, but deal it’s European customers via their Giro Cycles in the UK...


A

dancrowley

Arequipa wrote: »

Have any of you any knowledge of the Aussie brand Curve?
I like their bikes...they have a really cool group of riders and supporters... they are based out of Melbourne, but deal it’s European customers via their Giro Cycles in the UK...

A

Hi A,

I've got a Curve Belgie Disc, and really enjoy it. I had the frameset and wheels shipped to where I am (Saudi Arabia) and Curve were fantastic to deal with. If you have any questions about them, let me know.

For photo, see post #18... I don't know how to quote specific posts and, when I pasted the photo in here, it was massive

Arequipa

Thanks Dan..

That is great to hear.. as they are a small company.. i suppose the worries are..

1) maybe wait a while to hear more feedback on their bikes
2) if they are in the early stages of designing and getting bikes built...would it make sense to wait a while to get the most up to date and most modern version..?

A

dancrowley

Arequipa wrote: »

Thanks Dan..

That is great to hear.. as they are a small company.. i suppose the worries are..

1) maybe wait a while to hear more feedback on their bikes
2) if they are in the early stages of designing and getting bikes built...would it make sense to wait a while to get the most up to date and most modern version..?

A

These items are worth thinking about, alright.

Me, I wanted a Ti bike and really liked how these guys marketed and "walked the walk"; see Jesse Carlsson's exploits. Their business seems to have grown well and they've other bikes which I'd also like to get my hands on... I'm a happy customer.

Arequipa

Thanks Dan.. yea Jesse Carlsson is an interesting guy.. I have also heard of Sarah Hammond & the funny guy Rhino!

dancrowley

Arequipa wrote: »

Thanks Dan.. yea Jesse Carlsson is an interesting guy.. I have also heard of Sarah Hammond & the funny guy Rhino!

Rhino was the guy I was emailing re the details/spec So yeah, an interesting brand and one I was more than happy to get behind when I was in the market for a Ti weapon.

tombliboo83

dancrowley wrote: »

Rhino was the guy I was emailing re the details/spec So yeah, an interesting brand and one I was more than happy to get behind when I was in the market for a Ti weapon.

Do curve sell fully complete bikes?

dancrowley

tombliboo83 wrote: »

Do curve sell fully complete bikes?

Yup. You can get frames, framesets and fully-built bikes.

Lewotsil

@dancrowley - how did the Thomson Elite seatpost go ? What length was it ........ I have an annoying creak sound from bike....... I have tried greasing the seatpost and it stops the creak but only for a ride or two......... next trick is cut the seatpost an inch at a time ....think I bought a 450ml post which is MTB rather than 300ml for road bike ?

dancrowley

Lewotsil wrote: »

@dancrowley - how did the Thomson Elite seatpost go ? What length was it ........ I have an annoying creak sound from bike....... I have tried greasing the seatpost and it stops the creak but only for a ride or two......... next trick is cut the seatpost an inch at a time ....think I bought a 450ml post which is MTB rather than 300ml for road bike ?

I got the 27.2x330mm variant. Creaks could be from anything...

AmberGold

I have an Enigma titanium frame and have been dealing with a creaking post / collar also, head wrecking stuff. Just changed to a Thomson collar which has a max torque setting of 2.8nm and seems to have solved it.

Lewotsil

dancrowley wrote: »

I got the 27.2x330mm variant. Creaks could be from anything...

Cut about 70ml off the post on Saturday, regreased the post and went for a 2.5 hour ride yesterday and all was good........... still need time to tell if cutting was the solution as previous regreasing of the post stopped noise for a ride or two.

PS - the cut post made a perfect collar to fix my sons goalpost which was broken from crossbar challenge - no wastage

halvis

I have thought long and hard about buying a Ti frame and I still haven't ruled one out as my next frame. However, I have come to the conclusion that you have to assume that the welds WILL fail at some point.

Given that most people buy a Ti Frame for longevity reasons, I think therefore you should buy from a reputable manufacturer that is easy to deal with here in Ireland.

Van Nicholas are probably the best Ti frame manufacturer represented in Ireland and do have a good name for their warranties. Read any bike forums and you will see that they have no problems replacing frames that are 10 years old or more.

I was thinking of the Yukon for Audaxing purposes, but to be honest, its very similar to my current steel frame and not really any lighter. Therefore, I am having a hard time justifying the change.

I rode a test build that was floating around bike shops here in Ireland a few years ago - Zepher. It was fitted with Mavic Carbon SSC wheels though and I couldn't feel the road the same as on the steel. I put this down to the wheels more than the frame, but anyway, I didn't like the lack of feedback and gave it a miss.

So, my advice is to consider what happens if it goes wrong, as there is a good chance it will and you are going to need manufacturer support when it does.

ridelikeaturtle

halvis wrote: »

I have thought long and hard about buying a Ti frame and I still haven't ruled one out as my next frame. However, I have come to the conclusion that you have to assume that the welds WILL fail at some point.

I'm genuinely curious: on what is this conclusion based?

Are people jumping their road bikes off houses, Danny-MacAskill-style, expecting them to last forever?

I've two Ti road bikes, and I think they're awesome - and both are @ 20yrs old (1996, 1997). (I also have Al & steel, which I also like.) But I'd never expect any of them to have welds that just "fail".

halvis

Just to be clear, I was stating that when buying a Ti frame you should ASSUME that the weld WILL fail, so I wasn't suggesting that every Ti frame will fail for certain.

I am no metal worker, but I understand that the welds have to be performed more carefully to avoid contamination. If contaminated, which is hard to detect, it weakens the weld making it prone to cracking overtime. This is often sighted as the reason for titanium frame failure. These risks do not apply to steel.

Given this, I would prefer to buy from a reputable Ti manufacturer who will stand over this kind of issue and replace the faulty frame.

I am not sure how common this is, but it doesn't take much Googling to find many real instances.