Beginner Triathlons that allow snorkels

Patsy167

Hi Everyone,

Does anyone know where I can find a list of Triathlons in Ireland that allow the use of Snorkels?

I'm considering one of the short distance Try-a-Try style races but I would like to be able to use a snorkel.

I have been learning tho swim for the past few months and hope to eventually progress to swimming without the snorkel but for the moment I'd have to use a snorkel as I find it to be massively beneficial.

I have tried searching online in the FAQ's for a number of upcoming triathlons but most of them don't mention what swimming aids are permitted. Anyone know if a list of permitted swim aids exists, or if there is a list of Triathlons or swim/run events that permit the use of snorkels?

All help appreciated!

tunney

Patsy167 wrote: »

Hi Everyone,

Does anyone know where I can find a list of Triathlons in Ireland that allow the use of Snorkels?

I'm considering one of the short distance Try-a-Try style races but I would like to be able to use a snorkel.

I have been learning tho swim for the past few months and hope to eventually progress to swimming without the snorkel but for the moment I'd have to use a snorkel as I find it to be massively beneficial.

I have tried searching online in the FAQ's for a number of upcoming triathlons but most of them don't mention what swimming aids are permitted. Anyone know if a list of permitted swim aids exists, or if there is a list of Triathlons or swim/run events that permit the use of snorkels?

All help appreciated!

Look to Duathlons. If you need a snorkel you cannot swim and therefore should look to races that do not include swimming.

Stick at it and it will come to you.

RacoonQueen

Stop using the snorkel, you're not learning to swim if you're using it. Breathing technique is the first thing you should have been taught.

Patsy167

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Stop using the snorkel, you're not learning to swim if you're using it. Breathing technique is the first thing you should have been taught.

I appreciate the advice. I know it's what I need to hear. I've been told be several people that I shouldn't be using it.

I have been struggling to figure out the breathing for the past 3 months without much progress. This lack of progress was very frustrating was close to giving up on trying to swim.

I bought the snorkel a few weeks back and it has been a game changer. I suddenly love going swimming! I was teaching myself the correct breathing technique by using Youtube videos. A few lessons in person may be the solution.

panda100

Patsy167 wrote:

I bought the snorkel a few weeks back and it has been a game changer. I suddenly love going swimming! I was teaching myself the correct breathing technique by using Youtube videos. A few lessons in person may be the solution.

The more you use the snorkel though the more reliant you will become on it though. I would ditch it asap if I was you. 100% get lessons if you are not already doing so. You can only learn so much from YouTube videos.

tunney

Patsy167 wrote: »

I appreciate the advice. I know it's what I need to hear. I've been told be several people that I shouldn't be using it.

I have been struggling to figure out the breathing for the past 3 months without much progress. This lack of progress was very frustrating was close to giving up on trying to swim.

I bought the snorkel a few weeks back and it has been a game changer. I suddenly love going swimming! I was teaching myself the correct breathing technique by using Youtube videos. A few lessons in person may be the solution.

The correct breathing technique does not involve a snorkel and learning it, the associate rotation and body position, are the keys to swimming. Probably <10% of posters here have mastered these - without snorkels.

RacoonQueen

Patsy167 wrote: »

I appreciate the advice. I know it's what I need to hear. I've been told be several people that I shouldn't be using it.

I have been struggling to figure out the breathing for the past 3 months without much progress. This lack of progress was very frustrating was close to giving up on trying to swim.

I bought the snorkel a few weeks back and it has been a game changer. I suddenly love going swimming! I was teaching myself the correct breathing technique by using Youtube videos. A few lessons in person may be the solution.

Yep definitely try for a few lessons. By using it for all your swimming you are learning to swim with a snorkel, when you stop using it you will be unable to swim again and you'll pretty much be learning from scratch. Where are you based? Perhaps someone may be able to recommend a coach/lessons for you.

I did some swimming as a kid and as a teen and thought I was an ok swimmer when I went for my first tri club swim. I was wrong, couldn't swim at all.
Jeez I dreaded those swims, I would spend my entire day dreading going for a swim that night because it was hard, so, so f*cking hard. Eventually if got easier and I stopeed spending my whole working day trying to find an excuse not to go. Then I started swimming with a smaller group of some people on here and back came the dread as some of the really bad parts of my stroke were pulled up on in the smaller group...and hey back came the dread :pac:

speedyj

Patsy167 wrote: »

Hi Everyone,

Does anyone know where I can find a list of Triathlons in Ireland that allow the use of Snorkels?

I'm considering one of the short distance Try-a-Try style races but I would like to be able to use a snorkel.

I have been learning tho swim for the past few months and hope to eventually progress to swimming without the snorkel but for the moment I'd have to use a snorkel as I find it to be massively beneficial.

I have tried searching online in the FAQ's for a number of upcoming triathlons but most of them don't mention what swimming aids are permitted. Anyone know if a list of permitted swim aids exists, or if there is a list of Triathlons or swim/run events that permit the use of snorkels?

All help appreciated!

My 2 cents is that while you're learning the breathing, by all means keep using the snorkel, especially as it keeps you swimming. Just make sure each session includes some swimming without it.

I'd be hesitant to use a snorkel in an open water triathlon tbh. I know it's done in the U.S, but there are some issues. These include slighting, a big part of open water swimming. Plus, what do you do when water gets in, open water while not always rough just isn't as controlled an environment as the pool.

Whatever you do, stick with it!!

lizzylad84

Coming from someone that struggled with his swim, bin the snorkel. Join a tri club and get a few swimming lessons if s proper coach. While YouTube is great for something's, having someone poolside watching your stroke/kick and giving you advice on how to correct it is invaluable.
Better off with swing fins, pull boy and fkoar board to break your swim strokes down and improve this way.

Keep the snorkel fir the beach on holidays

peter kern

i am absolutely not a snorkel fan but if you like it use it ( just try to reduce it gradually )

as for racing as long as you are comforatble with the distance use it

you will get dqued ( most likley ) but you can still finish the race

having said so i guess you have never swam in a wetsuit and you will see you wont need a snorkel.



at the end of the day do what gets you in the pool. its a long process and you better enjoy it ...

Patsy167

speedyj wrote: »

My 2 cents is that while you're learning the breathing, by all means keep using the snorkel, especially as it keeps you swimming. Just make sure each session includes some swimming without it.

I'd be hesitant to use a snorkel in an open water triathlon tbh. I know it's done in the U.S, but there are some issues. These include slighting, a big part of open water swimming. Plus, what do you do when water gets in, open water while not always rough just isn't as controlled an environment as the pool.

Whatever you do, stick with it!!

lizzylad84 wrote: »

Coming from someone that struggled with his swim, bin the snorkel. Join a tri club and get a few swimming lessons if s proper coach. While YouTube is great for something's, having someone poolside watching your stroke/kick and giving you advice on how to correct it is invaluable.
Better off with swing fins, pull boy and fkoar board to break your swim strokes down and improve this way.

Keep the snorkel fir the beach on holidays

peter kern wrote: »

i am absolutely not a snorkel fan but if you like it use it ( just try to reduce it gradually )

as for racing as long as you are comforatble with the distance use it

you will get dqued ( most likley ) but you can still finish the race

having said so i guess you have never swam in a wetsuit and you will see you wont need a snorkel.



at the end of the day do what gets you in the pool. its a long process and you better enjoy it ...

Thanks for all of the advice. I've been thinking about the best approach to use. I think I will continue to use the snorkel for the moment and look at getting lessons to resolve the breathing issue in the long run.

As others have mentioned, it is the only thing getting me in the pool at the moment so for that reason alone, its worth it.

Keeks

tunney wrote: »

the associate rotation and body position, are the keys to swimming.

Take it from someone who is still learning to swim, this is key. you need to be able to rotate your body to be able to breath and you won't learn this with a snorkel....it may make it more difficult to learn in the long run

davmurpla

If u are learning to swim, not sure whether from very beginning or not, i would not be on rush to take the snorkel off. In swimming teaching process, there is an order which is Body Legs Arms Breathing Timing....aka BLATB...so if at the moment snorkel is helping on the process,keep it, at some point u will leave it on the poolside.

As coach PK said, enjoy the process.

Coach Gordo

mloc123

Peak mass participation of tiathlon...

TriFirst

First of all its great that you are embarking on the whole triathlon thing, its a terrific sport with many challenges at every age and every level of competency.

Swimming as a beginner with a snorkel might very well get you into the pool which is great but very soon you will hit hit a progress wall which to be honest is counterproductive if you are trying to get all you can out of the sport of triathlon.

What I'm saying is there are no short cuts here. You simply have to learn how to swim the old fashioned way and that involves swimming without a snorkel and ideally mastering bilateral breathing.

Now I do use a snorkel myself but only for drills. Indeed the professionals use snorkels but only for drills whereby they can focus on one part of the stroke during the drill, but thats all.

I'd advise dispensing of the snorkel till you get lessons and you become a competent swimmer with sufficient lung capacity to be able to swim 40 lengths unbroken. Then when you are at a stage where you are attempting to refine your technique by all means use a snorkel.

tunney

mloc123 wrote: »

Peak mass participation of tiathlon...

What's next?

I can't swim so want to use a snorkel and I'm clinically obese so need a mobility scooter - what races can I do?

mloc123

tunney wrote: »

What's next?

I can't swim so want to use a snorkel and I'm clinically obese so need a mobility scooter - what races can I do?

Could I use an e-bike? I struggle on hills...

peter kern

tunney wrote: »

What's next?

I can't swim so want to use a snorkel and I'm clinically obese so need a mobility scooter - what races can I do?

https://www.slowtwitch.com/Opinion/The_Risk_Of_Not_Being_a_Triathlete_6969.html


while we agree on ironman i think for try a tri anything goes

fletch

I did a try-a-tri a while back and it was in a swimming pool. One participant walked the entire swim (10 lengths)...did they complete a triathlon? I would normally applaud someone making the effort but I kinda thought they were just fooling themselves.

peter kern

fletch wrote: »

I did a try-a-tri a while back and it was in a swimming pool. One participant walked the entire swim (10 lengths)...did they complete a triathlon? I would normally applaud someone making the effort but I kinda thought they were just fooling themselves.

I hope he is not working as a swim coach now lol

coL

Firstly congrats on starting the triathlon journey. You have taken the biggest step which is getting in the pool. Despite how hard it might seem at times you are on your way.

When you do finally participate in a triathlon you will find that an open water swim is a very different experience from a pool swim and that a triathlon swim is very different from a solo open water swim. There is a very different skill and technique set required for open water and triathlon swimming. Part of the challenge will be swimming in the middle of very aggressive swimmers and also in large groups. How do you think you will cope if your snorkel becomes dislodged in the melee or when you are significantly out of your depth?

The simple fact is that if you can't swim without a snorkel then it would be dangerous to try and do a triathlon. The only thing more dangerous than this would be doing a triathlon with a snorkel. Don't forget you need to sight regularly and while a snorkel is good for letting you keep you head in the water it is awkward and cumbersome when it comes to letting you lift or tilt your head. Any diver will tell you that a snorkel can be a bit of a nuisance at time especially if you have to rise you head or look around. Personally I think a snorkel would be a hindrance when it came to sighting or any competitive open water swimming.


Snorkels can and are used as training aids but as others have said the more you use it the more reliant you will become on it and the harder it will be to learn proper technique. By all means keep using it if it helps you get in the pool but try to do a few lengths or even a few drills without it every session and then gradually increase the number of these until it is no longer something you need to use.

Patsy167

coL wrote: »

Firstly congrats on starting the triathlon journey. You have taken the biggest step which is getting in the pool. Despite how hard it might seem at times you are on your way.

When you do finally participate in a triathlon you will find that an open water swim is a very different experience from a pool swim and that a triathlon swim is very different from a solo open water swim. There is a very different skill and technique set required for open water and triathlon swimming. Part of the challenge will be swimming in the middle of very aggressive swimmers and also in large groups. How do you think you will cope if your snorkel becomes dislodged in the melee or when you are significantly out of your depth?

The simple fact is that if you can't swim without a snorkel then it would be dangerous to try and do a triathlon. The only thing more dangerous than this would be doing a triathlon with a snorkel. Don't forget you need to sight regularly and while a snorkel is good for letting you keep you head in the water it is awkward and cumbersome when it comes to letting you lift or tilt your head. Any diver will tell you that a snorkel can be a bit of a nuisance at time especially if you have to rise you head or look around. Personally I think a snorkel would be a hindrance when it came to sighting or any competitive open water swimming.


Snorkels can and are used as training aids but as others have said the more you use it the more reliant you will become on it and the harder it will be to learn proper technique. By all means keep using it if it helps you get in the pool but try to do a few lengths or even a few drills without it every session and then gradually increase the number of these until it is no longer something you need to use.

This is great detail! I've never considered a lot of the factors that you mentioned.

My game plan at the moment is to continue using the snorkel in the pool and focus on getting familiar with the stroke, engaging the core, and engaging the legs.

I'll try to progress on from this by using the snorkel every second or third session. I ca see that in the long run, I will eventually have to address the breathing.

I appreciate you taking time to reply and for the encouragement. It really is appreciated!

Kurt.Godel

Patsy167 wrote: »

My game plan at the moment is to continue using the snorkel in the pool and focus on getting familiar with the stroke, engaging the core, and engaging the legs.

I'll try to progress on from this by using the snorkel every second or third session. I ca see that in the long run, I will eventually have to address the breathing.

With respect, breathing is the first thing to master before working on stroke, core, legs, etc. Address the breathing now as your stroke/position will be different (read incorrect) using a snorkel. Every good swim program starts at the fundamental step of learning to breathe; progress will come once you are comfortable taking air in the water.
Slow down everything else until you can breathe, there are no shortcuts to this step.

Kurt.Godel

There’s a few practical things you can do to learn breathing. The first is control- easier said than done, I’ve been swimming since 2013 and only in the last year mastered being in control of my breath. From observation this is a common complaint. I’m not a coach but in the absence of any concrete solutions for you on this thread the following might help until someone more experienced chips in:

1: get into a pool and stand in the lane (make sure it’s an empty lane!). Without moving, lie face down and exhale slowly through your mouth, making a motorcycle noise “brrrrrrrrrr”. Stand up when you’re out of breath. Repeat a few times.

2: now move to the deep end, and allow yourself to sink to the bottom while exhaling slowly (motorcycle noise again). You should be able to sit on the bottom doing this. Again, repeat a few times.

3: back in the shallower end so you can stand. Execute a slow tumble headfirst, again while exhaling through the mouth with that noise. Repeat a few times.

What the above drills will teach you is that you need to be exhaling steadily any time your head is underwater. This ensures your lungs are empty when you go to take a breath swimming. One of the biggest problems newbie swimmers face is holding in air underwater. Besides the inevitable build up of CO2, this also means you expel air when the head turns, at the point you should be inhaling. A cascade effect starts and suddenly you’re gasping for air and not in control.

Do those drills and post how you get on, and we can move onto the next level. To be precise, you should not care about any aspect of your stroke but breathing for these drills.

(Usual caveats apply, that info is worth what you paid for it, and I defer to anyone more qualified giving better advice)

coL

Patsy167 wrote: »

This is great detail! I've never considered a lot of the factors that you mentioned.

My game plan at the moment is to continue using the snorkel in the pool and focus on getting familiar with the stroke, engaging the core, and engaging the legs.

I'll try to progress on from this by using the snorkel every second or third session. I ca see that in the long run, I will eventually have to address the breathing.

I appreciate you taking time to reply and for the encouragement. It really is appreciated!

You are most welcome.

I would agree with Kurt and suggest that you work on breathing first, if you do this then everything else should follow and (at least in theory) be easier.

There are a lot of swim aids that will help you focus on getting your breathing right by de-emphasising the other elements of your stroke. It might be worth giving these a try rather than the snorkel to see how they feel and if they give you the same motivation to get into the pool. Personally I find the prospect of doing a few lengths with a pull buoy or fins a lot more appealing that just doing them on their own.


At the end of the day if a snorkel helps give you the motivation to actually go for a swim then using it is better than not going for a swim at all. But as pointed out be extremely careful not to become too reliant on the snorkel as it will not help with your long term goal.


You might not appreciate it fully at the moment but you are in a very good situation in that you can learn to swim properly with the proper technique from the very beginning. When I learned to swim I was young and it was mainly just so we could go to the beach and not drown (we weren't taught anything about the finer points of stroke technique). As a consequence my technique is terrible and I am a very slow swimmer. I have met a good few people who learned to swim later in life specifically for triathlons and they are without exception all a lot faster than me (its a bit depressing) as they focused on technique from the very beginning.

Stone Deaf 4evr

If you can find someone good to get lessons from, it'll make the world of difference. I'd done a few sprint triathlons, and one olympic9 so not a stanger to going the distance, when I saw a facebook ad for swim coaching being organised by the Cork Tri Club. It was relatively expensive, and I was aware that my swim was my second weakest discipline after the run, so I signed up and went along.

it was very productive, the instructors essentially broke down the process into its component parts and made sure we had each bit down before moving onto the next. we used paddles on our hands and flippers on our feet to properly comprehend the technique. It did wonders for me tbh, I would have always been physically trained after the swim, but now I almost feel like I could go forever at a relaxed pace.

Theres a lad on youtube whose name escapes me, but his training technique is called 'Total immersion' , its a good watch if you can find it.

pc11

As a former TI technical official, I would not let anyone take part in a triathlon using a snorkel. I agree with the posters who say if you need it, you shouldn't be there.

peter kern

pc11 wrote: »

As a former TI technical official, I would not let anyone take part in a triathlon using a snorkel. I agree with the posters who say if you need it, you shouldn't be there.

How would you justify your decison ( is there a study you have read you can quote) ? fact is the the world biggest federstion usat is promoting snorkles.
Now I dont have seen any evidence by them presented that it is saver, but
I guess eithere way there needs to be evidence based facts and not feelings.

so far we can say usat allowes snorkles for 2 years and iam not aware ( and I guess most importanly their insurance provider ) that it has crated an negative impact.

tunney

peter kern wrote: »

How would you justify your decison ( is there a study you have read you can quote) ? fact is the the world biggest federstion usat is promoting snorkles.
Now I dont have seen any evidence by them presented that it is saver, but
I guess eithere way there needs to be evidence based facts and not feelings.

so far we can say usat allowes snorkles for 2 years and iam not aware ( and I guess most importanly their insurance provider ) that it has crated an negative impact.

You yourself have had some choice comments about the level of "athlete" in North American races in the past. This is the same calibre of fathlete we are now seeing in ""the Dublin ironman".

pc11

peter kern wrote: »

How would you justify your decison ( is there a study you have read you can quote) ? fact is the the world biggest federstion usat is promoting snorkles.
Now I dont have seen any evidence by them presented that it is saver, but
I guess eithere way there needs to be evidence based facts and not feelings.

so far we can say usat allowes snorkles for 2 years and iam not aware ( and I guess most importanly their insurance provider ) that it has crated an negative impact.

A study?? What kind of study do you mean?

It's very simple: if a swimmer is not safe, he's out. I have no hesitation in pulling a swimmer out of the water if they are struggling and I have often done so. Surely this can't be controversial!

EC1000

peter kern wrote: »

How would you justify your decison ( is there a study you have read you can quote) ?

Wouldn't it be ruled out on the basis of it being a swim aid and all swim aids are prohibited? If he's allowed a snorkel, why can't I use my fins?

peter kern

pc11 wrote: »

A study?? What kind of study do you mean?

It's very simple: if a swimmer is not safe, he's out. I have no hesitation in pulling a swimmer out of the water if they are struggling and I have often done so. Surely this can't be controversial!

its not controverisal at all. what is controversial is that if snorkels were allowed you would make a judgment aobut that before you see the swimmer. based on what you like or not.

if he is not striggeling with the snorkel than you would keep him her in ?

peter kern

EC1000 wrote: »

Wouldn't it be ruled out on the basis of it being a swim aid and all swim aids are prohibited? If he's allowed a snorkel, why can't I use my fins?

i have 0 problems a swimmer using fins in a try a tri.

i would have serious problems with both at national champ races lol.

you see where iam comming from ...
get people in the sport to get started as it becomes more competive make the sport harder. I would have qualification races for nat champs too that sell out.

but at the entry level i think whatever is not a healt risks goes.

which is why i want to know more aobut weather a snorkel is a health risk.

TriFirst

EC1000 wrote: »

Wouldn't it be ruled out on the basis of it being a swim aid and all swim aids are prohibited? If he's allowed a snorkel, why can't I use my fins?

Snorkels are banned by the World Triathlon Corporation which runs the Ironman series of races. The ITU prohibits use of snorkels for all its events including paratriathletes. Indeed all methods of propulsion including paddles and fins are banned. USAT, Triathlon Canada and Triathlon Australia do not specially ban snorkels however the race director has the final say.

Either way as has been said repeatedly if you need to use a snorkel to compete then you shouldn't be competing. To remove any doubt there should be an outright ban across the sport. If paratriathletes don't get a special dispensation then there's absolutely no reason any able bodied triathlete should be allowed use a snorkel because their swimming ability is poor.

pc11

EC1000 wrote: »

Wouldn't it be ruled out on the basis of it being a swim aid and all swim aids are prohibited? If he's allowed a snorkel, why can't I use my fins?

Absolutely.

pc11

peter kern wrote: »

its not controverisal at all. what is controversial is that if snorkels were allowed you would make a judgment aobut that before you see the swimmer. based on what you like or not.

if he is not striggeling with the snorkel than you would keep him her in ?

Peter, you're not making any sense here. Snorkels are not allowed. End of story. I don't judge on "what I like". I follow the rules and safety.

If a beginner swimmer NEEDS a snorkel, he is a terrible swimmer and should not be there.

I can't believe this is even a debate. I've never seen a triathlete ask to use a snorkel and they are not allowed in any case. Even if they were not explicitly banned I would not allow them. End of story.

Diego Murphy

pc11 wrote: »

Peter, you're not making any sense here. Snorkels are not allowed. End of story. I don't judge on "what I like". I follow the rules and safety.

If a beginner swimmer NEEDS a snorkel, he is a terrible swimmer and should not be there.

I can't believe this is even a debate. I've never seen a triathlete ask to use a snorkel and they are not allowed in any case. Even if they were not explicitly banned I would not allow them. End of story.

Well said. It shouldn't even be a debate.

Diego Murphy

Back to the poster, I remember when I first learned to swim, I was taught to float on my back first. Not as easy as it sounds, to do it properly. But once you've it mastered, your confidence levels increase dramatically and it's much easier to learn things like breathing.

RacoonQueen

My first session as an adult I was taught how to breathe properly by doing a drill similar to the one kurt mentioned in an earlier post.
Into the deep end 'jump up' out of the water breathing in through my mouth, float down to the floor breathing out through the nose, push back up with my legs, breath in through mouth...and so on.
Pretty much like this
https://youtu.be/RJB93g5y_A0?t=45

Did that drill once, never needed to do it again, main problem for people (I think) is mastering the in through mouth/out through nose to not getting the stingy feeling of water up the nose which just makes people panic, rightly so if bloody hurts.