New House vs Old House

Glen_Quagmire

It might seem like an obvious answer to most, i.e. a New House, but what would be your choice for buying a family house to live in long term?

Some pros and cons;

New House Pros
- It's a brand new house (obviously)
- No worries about having big expenses to fix it up like rewiring, new roof, new heating system etc
- HTB grant (if applicable)
- No bidding wars


New House Cons
- Typically smaller than old houses
- Typically smaller front and back gardens
- Can be noisy if build quality is poor (which a lot are)
- Can be more expensive to fit out with furniture and fixtures
- Typically more expensive, especially in Dublin
- May have to buy one outside Dublin to fit your budget (may not be an issue to most)
- May need two familiy cars if moving outside Dublin (again may not be an issue for some)
- May have to queue up for days before they are released to secure one


Used House Pros
- Typically bigger than new houses
- Most have bigger front and back gardens
- Can find ones with sufficient space in back gardens to build extentions or big sheds / workshops
- Typically have better build quality
- Typically cheaper than buying new houses
- Can usually get one inside Dublin within a moderate budget (living in Dublin may not be a concern to most)


Used House Cons
- May need a lot of work which can be expensive
- Concerns of why the house is being sold, i.e. bad neighbours, noisey neighbours, antisocial behaviour etc
- Possible bidding wars
- May have to pay over asking price to secure


What other Pros and Cons am I missing?

LirW

Re. Neighbours: in a new development you don't have an established community and it can turn out anywhere from really well to really poor. Not everyone in Social housing is a scumbag and not everyone paying a mortgage is a nice, laid back person.

But I think you summed it up pretty well in your post, at the end of the day it's very much personal preference, we went with the old.

spurious

Old house (e.g. over 100 years) can be a real money pit, but it's swings and roundabouts really. Some things just 'go' with having an old house. You learn to live with them.

Glen_Quagmire

LirW wrote:

Re. Neighbours: in a new development you don't have an established community and it can turn out anywhere from really well to really poor. Not everyone in Social housing is a scumbag and not everyone paying a mortgage is a nice, laid back person.

Yes very true. This is probably my biggest concern if I'm honest. You can pick your house big you can't pick your neighbours

godtabh

An old house will require work. How muchndepends on the house.

I’d rather an old house they has a decent back garden that requires work compared to a new build. My motto was worse house in the best area.

That resulted in a nice 4 bed semi d in Blackrock in a back garden you could fit 2 new builds in and about €100k less for the equivalent new build

Wesser

What do you mean by old house? Do you just mean sevond habd? Do you mean beautiful red brick old Georgian house? If so the location is usually better ie nearer to the city and a ' better' neighbourhood. Also the period features e.g. old floors doors and fireplaces. Also usually lots of trees and beauty about the neighbourhood. Personal I consider houses like people and wouldn't consider them old until.the reach at least 70 / 75 years.....

New house with good BER much easier to heat. I also find brand new houses much easier to keep clean.

jester77

Glen_Quagmire wrote: »

Yes very true. This is probably my biggest concern if I'm honest. You can pick your house big you can't pick your neighbours

I moved into a new build and zero complaints. 90% of the people moving in were people with young families or just about to start. So our children are all around the same age. We have a summer and winter festival where everyone gets together, clear the streets, setup tents, bences, bouncy castle, BBQ, beer taps, music, etc

We also have a private Facebook group where we can discuss legal issues, cleaners, organise certain maintenance actives like annual heating, ventilation maintenance to get group discounts and so on.

We also have groups for internal activities, I play football with a group of dads every week, regular beer meetups, going to games, etc

This is something that would be near impossible to get going if you just move in somewhere already existing.

viper5

New all day long if you can. It was a no brainer for us as there many disadvantages with used houses. Besides hidden issues you which is massive problem, you are often compromising your requirements on layout and design. with new you can literally design perfectly what’s for you.

We got a 4 bed semi new and our garden while less mature is the same size as the houses we looked at and our neighbors couldn’t be nicer. First time buyer grant really helps also furnish house to the standard you like . Still over the moon 6 months later ( not in Dublin by the way)

Glen_Quagmire

Wesser wrote:

What do you mean by old house? Do you just mean sevond habd? Do you mean beautiful red brick old Georgian house? If so the location is usually better ie nearer to the city and a ' better' neighbourhood. Also the period features e.g. old floors doors and fireplaces. Also usually lots of trees and beauty about the neighbourhood. Personal I consider houses like people and wouldn't consider them old until.the reach at least 70 / 75 years.....

I meant used houses. Those style houses you make reference to sound out of budget unfortunately

awec

New houses, by and large, are cheaper to run.

awec

Glen_Quagmire wrote: »

I meant used houses. Those style houses you make reference to sound out of budget unfortunately

If you really are classifying "old house" as a house that has had a previous owner then a lot of the cons for new houses also apply to old houses in your list. Basically any house built in the last 20 years.

I think when most people read "old house" they think pre-tiger.

Glen_Quagmire

awec wrote:

If you really are classifying "old house" as a house that has had a previous owner then a lot of the cons for new houses also apply to old houses in your list. Basically any house built in the last 20 years.

awec wrote:

I think when most people read "old house" they think pre-tiger.

Can you change the title of the thread then to save any confusion

Zenify

New house. Everything works and no surprises.

wersal gummage

Location I guess...

New houses typically not available in what some would regard as the most desirable locations (in Dublin anyway).

Lia_lia

I would not be a fan of new houses, personally.

I can see the benefits (help to buy scheme, no bidding, pretty know what you're getting). But they lack character, have tiny gardens and are generally not in settled locations.

I suppose there’s a distinct difference between an old house and an old house with period features. OP had said the latter was out of reach so without that location would be one of the only positives as well as an established community.

viper5

Lia_lia wrote: »

I would not be a fan of new houses, personally.

I can see the benefits (help to buy scheme, no bidding, pretty know what you're getting). But they lack character, have tiny gardens and are generally not in settled locations.

Fine line between character and outdated. I guess it depends on what people are referring to an “old”. Personally any of the 1960s-1980s semi we viewed I thought had a very outdated exterior and even worse interior . A slightly smaller garden in exchange for a much fresher look inside and out was a major appeal to us. . Avoiding “Settled” Estates was a big plus also much rather get to know people in the same boat as myself. We were lucky as the estate in a sought after area in cork so best of both worlds for us.

Starting a new family a brand new house makes sense to us now. Often depends where in life you are also

Diemos

Deleted User wrote: »

I also find brand new houses much easier to keep clean.

Wot?!

Diemos

Diemos wrote: »

Wot?!

How not? Freshly tiled with clean grout on floors and showers, freshly painted, new kitchens and bathrooms! No doubt about it.

Fol20

I prefer new houses not because it’s brand new, I couldn’t care less about that, but because I find older houses tend to have more smaller rooms while newer places are more open plan and better designed. I would personally prefer to give me a blank canvas instead of forcing me to pick out whatever materials the developer can give so that I can do it the way I want. I’m happy enough in my current home that was second hand but that’s after I gutted the entire place,opened up walls etc but that all came at a price and even then it wasn’t perfect. In the future when I hopefully get my forever home, I would consider doing a self build or else if I come across the right place, a newish house if the rooms are well payed out.

JustAThought

'Old' house
Larger front and back gardens
Having a feont garden and not stepping out onto a footpath from your front door
Private driveways
Probably no risk of private clampers being brought in or being forced to pay to park your car outsode your house a few years after you bought your house by money hungry builders who still own the paths and roads your house is built on unknown to you.
Room for 2 or 3 cars and also on street parking
Being able to park outside your own house
No car wars with neighbours
No management companies -nightmare
Council probably still responsible for the outside streets and footpaths - not you
Council probably responsible for upkeep and grasscutting of green areas - not you
Council sued if problem - not the homeowners of the 'private' estate or their 'homeowners/management company' who also have to pay annually for insurance for the area

Established area - priceless - you can see and know what you are getting into

No chance of 'hidden social problems' - charities are block buying hundreds of houses and appartments with govt money in private estates and putting council house waiting listers into them at e30 per week maximum rate - including ex prisoners (homeless), itinerants (homeless) and the great unwashed -unknown - risk of no personal funds for upkeep or maintenance of day to day issues like painting or gardens/drains etc leading to ghettoisation and issues

Mature planting and trees - a great indicator of an upmarket and leafy settled area

Reputation. Already established. People know where the no go social zones are and poverty and drug filled areas are and where criminal classes live - they don't typically chose to move in there with them unless they want to.

Rental areas with high density of new builds and high immigration and turnover of renters - schools typically overburdened and issues with language and learning abd teacher to class ration. Some schools now have 10-15 different mother languages and one teacher struggling to teach maths or english to children in this environment. Quality of schooling an issue for parents.

Older houses may have shabby diy or may have been invested in and upgraded internally or extended during the celtic tiger. Old furniture and decor can be removed or sold and walls painted but you cannot make small houses bigger no matter how new the bijoux furniture or salespatter.

New insulation techniques can be applied to old houses as can older windows be replaced - many new houses were built with poor soundproofing as well as good insulation - you can fix the insulation on an old house - but you cannot fix wafer thin walls.

Promises of more busses on bus routes or metros to be built can lainger for 10 or 15 years. Ancient bus routes serving country roads noelw servicing thousanfs of new houses but with the same 1970's bus timetable and utter apathy from bus eireann and empty clanking from 'local' politicans and politicians families.

Actual green spaces and parks for children to play inna nd dogs to be walked in - not tiny square greens around a few houses where hundreds of new families' screaming kids will congregagate to torment those that live on it and proper green spaces not just caged plastic playgrounds outsode a few homes where antisocial issues and noise will torment them for years because every other square inch is built on and there is nolarge walking distance parks or large local green spaces for children to run and roar on.

Etc

GingerLily

Lol - there are a lot of generalisations about old houses here!

We bought a new build, it worked out cheaper for us then other properties we were looking at so financially we're happy with our choice.

The community feel is nice in a new estate too!

I wouldnt by a house because its new though, location and size/layout would be my top priority!

Creamy Goodness

I prefer new houses. Maybe it’s because that’s what I could afford as old houses bidding wars get out of hand quickly.

My parents house is over 300 years old and my dad is constantly getting work done to it. Only when he hits to the top floor does he have to start back in the basement doing something else up. They have a huge front and back garden but they’re never stopped weeding and planting and cutting grass. I’d say I’ve seen them sit out in it a handful of times in the last 30 years.

The feeling of a blank canvas of a new house is much desired by me. If done right you can have a big home with less chance to clutter as that’s where the preci Us owners had a China press or similar. I’m not that handy when it comes to DIY either so having to constantly be fixing small things here and there from the get go would be annoying, at least with a new build (provided it’s well built) you shouldn’t have much if anything to do in this regard.

I haven’t moved into my home yet, but I’m in a group with my neighbours on WhatsApp, have met them all at showings and they all seem like lovely people, we’re all around the same age and not to jinx it but seems like they’ll be all quiet and friendly and no grumpy dry ****es telling you a tree is blocking their light etc. Juxtapose this with my parents and they literally talk to one set of neighbours the odd time and it’s very much a “hi how’s the weather”.

Mantis Toboggan

Providing location is the same then a new build is a no brainer especially if you qualify for the help to buy.

Getting the government to pay 5% of the asking price is nice not to mention no bidding wars on the price.

Everything is new and you get to kit out the house exactly the way you want it to. Also in new build development the majority are young couples and families so there's a good vibrant community.

People have mentioned that old houses have better build quality, that's generally not true at all. Building regulations are far stricter these days and insulation and build quality and materials are all better. New builds are all A rated homes.

Old houses are grand but if you're spending your hard earned go with brand new.

Glen_Quagmire

Regarding new developments, what is the obligation on the allocation of houses for social housing?

fret_wimp2

We considered both and ended up going for a new house in a new development. Reasons we did this are below, along with some items we didnt consider but would question if buying again. This is just our list, may not be applicable to everyone (or anyone else).

- Price: Most used houses we liked were at least or more expensive than the new house, and still required 100 - 200k work to bring them up to a good standard. That was the biggest benefit of a new house, smaller mortgage, paid off sooner. Basically its the best available at a price we were wiling to pay and could afford.

- Warranty: New house comes with 10 year structural warranty, also came with grace period where the developer would fix niggly things that crop up in all new homes like settling cracks etc.

-Size to cost: House is bigger. Way bigger than any used house in the same price bracket.

-Investment in the area: with many houses being built in an area, there is a great push for new infrastructure (new busses, trains, trams etc). We have really benefited from this.


Things i didn't realize and would be wary of if buying new again. Note they wouldnt prevent me buying new again, id just ask a lot more questions:

-management companies: most new developments have one and although the can be good to help keep the place looking good, they can be hard work too. Ours is now trying to bring in crazy rules regarding guest parking ( no more than 4 hours in any 24 hour period on weekdays). It takes time and effort to point out the legitimate issues with some of their ideas and get them working for the good of the residents.

-Community spirit. Everyone is new there are no established clicks or groups so it takes time and work. If everyone is an owner occupier however its good as they are all invested in the area.

-Speed of change. Lots of things going on, 2nd, 3rd, 4th phases, new roads, new shops , new infrastructure mean the area you move into can be massively different in 5 years time, weather you like it or not. An old area will be stable and you can be reasonably sure its not going to change all that much.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

It's never as simple as old vs new. If you had a new house and an old house sitting side by side you'd obviously go new every time. But a lot of the new build estates in my area are being plopped in the middle of nowhere with no public transport, no shops and having to drive the kids to the nearest school. The old estate which I bought in is a 5 min walk to aldi, 10 mins to tesco, bus stops 5 minutes away and all schools within 15 (at a child's pace).

My older house has compromises for sure, insulation being the top downside in my opinion. But have the external insulation coming next week and already upgraded the heat so I would say we are well on course for at least a b3 ber.

Tldr, new vs old is too simplistic an argument.

Diemos

Deleted User wrote: »

How not? Freshly tiled with clean grout on floors and showers, freshly painted, new kitchens and bathrooms! No doubt about it.

But we have all of those things in an old house.....they are not exclusive to new builds.

Diemos

Diemos wrote: »

But we have all of those things in an old house.....they are not exclusive to new builds.

If you have revamped it you have obviously!

M.Cribben

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you have revamped it you have obviously!

I wouldn't consider clean grout as a significant revamp. Similar to what a previous poster said, upvc windows, modern kitchens, bathrooms, fresh paint, tiles, even good insulation are not exclusive to new builds. Most homeowners look after and take pride in their house to some degree. A quick look around my area on daft ( built 30+ years ago) shows most of the houses are immaculate, almost show house condition. Beautiful kitchens, double/triple glazed upvc windows, composite doors, freshly painted, and so on. Without any of the downsides of new estates (management fees, tiny gardens, parking issues). You don't have to buy a new build to buy a nice house.

Cyrus

Any house built in the last 3-4 years will be better built than anything else available this thing of old houses being better built is a nonsense .

Some of the other points are wrong too there are new builds in any part of Dublin you want including Blackrock foxrock and Dalkey, they may be expensive but to say they don’t exist is plain wrong .

New house for me any day of the week .

Cyrus

M.Cribben wrote: »

I wouldn't consider clean grout as a significant revamp. Similar to what a previous poster said, upvc windows, modern kitchens, bathrooms, fresh paint, tiles, even good insulation are not exclusive to new builds. Most homeowners look after and take pride in their house to some degree. A quick look around my area on daft ( built 30+ years ago) shows most of the houses are immaculate, almost show house condition. Beautiful kitchens, double/triple glazed upvc windows, composite doors, freshly painted, and so on. Without any of the downsides of new estates (management fees, tiny gardens, parking issues). You don't have to buy a new build to buy a nice house.

Upvc windows are seen as a good thing ?

listermint

Cyrus wrote: »

Any house built in the last 3-4 years will be better built than anything else available this thing of old houses being better built is a nonsense .

Some of the other points are wrong too there are new builds in any part of Dublin you want including Blackrock foxrock and Dalkey, they may be expensive but to say they don’t exist is plain wrong .

New house for me any day of the week .

Not being funny but just saying anything built in the last year years is better is nonsense too.

Cyrus your smart enough to understand we still have no real building enforcement on this island and I've personally seen builds built to minimum standards brand new.

I think I even seen yourself in a thread complaining about draughts in a new build.

So as others have pointed out new versus old is an idiots argument.

Every house is different. Take the house in its own merits.

To stick to new and old argument it demonstrates no grasp of understanding of what goes into a house

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly

Building technology has constantly changed/improved through a combination of trial and error, improved understanding, increased knowledge and regulations. Historic buildings were built in quite a different manner than those today. Throughout history they have also been built differently; for example, building technology changed quite dramatically during the 18th Century.

Many old buildings were very very badly built and it might be argued that, mostly, the better built examples survive.

There are aspects of older construction which are better than modern techniques. There are elements of contemporary building that are better than historic construction. One is not better than the other in every regard.

acai berry

An old house tends go be more "quirky", because lots would have been done to it over the years by its previous owners. The downside is some of the work could be of the "cowboy" DIY variety. There is more effort keeping an old house clean, I think. Window cleaning can be a bit of a chore. Taps can be leaking and various similar irritations. Overall, despite the limitations, I would go for the older, more "quirky" house.

Everybody has different opinions, tastes and budgets but for me personally when we bought in 2013/14, it was new build every time for our budget and value for money. We had the opportunity to buy an older house in one of the "best" areas in Dublin (Rathgar) or a new build in Wicklow and we picked the new build in Wicklow for the following reasons; twice the size, smaller estate, A3 BER Rating, location suits our lifestyle (outside of work) better and the commuting distance to work wasn't much longer...(work in Dublin), no kids yet but when we do we'll still send them to school in Dublin more than likely.

I have to say - we looked at new builds in Dublin also and even "nice" ones in South Dublin were "on top of each other" and didn't have much space so I understand where some of the comments in this thread came from.

M.Cribben

M.Cribben wrote: »

I wouldn't consider clean grout as a significant revamp. Similar to what a previous poster said, upvc windows, modern kitchens, bathrooms, fresh paint, tiles, even good insulation are not exclusive to new builds. Most homeowners look after and take pride in their house to some degree. A quick look around my area on daft ( built 30+ years ago) shows most of the houses are immaculate, almost show house condition. Beautiful kitchens, double/triple glazed upvc windows, composite doors, freshly painted, and so on. Without any of the downsides of new estates (management fees, tiny gardens, parking issues). You don't have to buy a new build to buy a nice house.

That’s your opinion great good to know!

Cyrus

listermint wrote: »

Not being funny but just saying anything built in the last year years is better is nonsense too.

Cyrus your smart enough to understand we still have no real building enforcement on this island and I've personally seen builds built to minimum standards brand new.

I think I even seen yourself in a thread complaining about draughts in a new build.

So as others have pointed out new versus old is an idiots argument.

Every house is different. Take the house in its own merits.

To stick to new and old argument it demonstrates no grasp of understanding of what goes into a house

I stand by it on the basis of what I have seen unless it was a one off build specified by a wealthy owner new builds today are far better than houses built 10 , 20 and 50 years ago

My thread on draughts was related to the requirement for vents due to air tightness and it’s pretty easily solved it doesn’t change the point

M.Cribben

Another downside of new builds I forgot is 10% of your estate will be social housing. I wouldn't enjoy getting up for work every day to pay a big mortgage knowing Billy next door who got the house for practically nothing is still in bed laughing at all the eejits making the effort.

Cyrus

M.Cribben wrote: »

Another downside of new builds I forgot is 10% of your estate will be social housing. I wouldn't enjoy getting up for work every day to pay a big mortgage knowing Billy next door who got the house for practically nothing is still in bed laughing at all the eejits making the effort.

thats not always the case either

fret_wimp2

M.Cribben wrote: »

Another downside of new builds I forgot is 10% of your estate will be social housing. I wouldn't enjoy getting up for work every day to pay a big mortgage knowing Billy next door who got the house for practically nothing is still in bed laughing at all the eejits making the effort.

That's a very poor view of the world. Social housing is necessary in any developed country. Not all social housing tenants are scoffing and laughing down at their mortgage paying neighbors, most have jobs, work hard, pay what they can and are just trying to make a good life for them and their families.

Like everything, its the vast minority that are out to scoff at everyone else while paying nothing.

But hey, if that doesn't fit in with your populist ideals just head back to the journal post there and wait for a few thumbs up to validate that you're right.

acai berry

M.Cribben wrote: »

Another downside of new builds I forgot is 10% of your estate will be social housing. I wouldn't enjoy getting up for work every day to pay a big mortgage knowing Billy next door who got the house for practically nothing is still in bed laughing at all the eejits making the effort.

I see and appreciate your point, M.Cribben| On the other hand, if special estates are set up for social housing only, we run the risk of setting up crime-ridden ghettos. Surely that's what we're trying to get away from.

Creamy Goodness

If I get a mortgage that I'm happy and comfortably able to pay why does it matter what anyone else in the estate/road etc. pay? It's none of my business, estates/roads need diversity.

Cyrus

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

If I get a mortgage that I'm happy and comfortably able to pay why does it matter what anyone else in the estate/road etc. pay? It's none of my business, estates/roads need diversity.

Theboinkmaster

Cyrus wrote: »

Any house built in the last 3-4 years will be better built than anything else available this thing of old houses being better built is a nonsense .

Some of the other points are wrong too there are new builds in any part of Dublin you want including Blackrock foxrock and Dalkey, they may be expensive but to say they don’t exist is plain wrong .

New house for me any day of the week .

I agree, case in point would be College Square in Terenure 2 years ago.

€650k in a settled area for well built 4 bed 1,700sq ft semi D. Same money would buy a similar sized house in Wainsfort Manor but with €100k+ required to put in.

They are building some exceptional houses in settled areas in Dublin. Often at same price as older houses in same area so in reality they are €100-150k cheaper if you compare like for like. Compromise is smaller garden and over 3 storeys typically in Dublin.

M.Cribben

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

I agree, case in point would be College Square in Terenure 2 years ago.

€650k in a settled area for well built 4 bed 1,700sq ft semi D. Same money would buy a similar sized house in Wainsfort Manor but with €100k+ required to put in.

They are building some exceptional houses in settled areas in Dublin. Often at same price as older houses in same area so in reality they are €100-150k cheaper if you compare like for like. Compromise is smaller garden and over 3 storeys typically in Dublin.

The vast majority of second-hand homes for sale do not require €150k of work though. Saying 'which is better - old vs new house" is too simplistic a question to describe the range of age and condition of properties for sale.

Muahahaha

wersal gummage wrote: »

Location I guess...

New houses typically not available in what some would regard as the most desirable locations (in Dublin anyway).

Location is a huge part of it. I had reason to be in Ongar, D15 over the weekend and there is a lot of new builds out there (thousands in fact). It was such a souless place and the hosts of the BBQ were telling me a lot of neighbours are at each others throats and the bus service is woeful. The village itself is run down (even though not that old) and there is lots of new building going on meaning there is dust absolutely everywhere. This will continue on for the foreseeable. I wouldnt like to live in that kind of environment and would go with a settled area and 2nd hand house over it. Settled area doesnt even have to be that old, perhaps 20-30 years or so. Plus lots of houses built in the 80s and 90s are bigger and have bigger gardens than new builds and they dont have the extra taxation of management fees or parking problems.

Theboinkmaster

M.Cribben wrote: »

The vast majority of second-hand homes for sale do not require €150k of work though. Saying 'which is better - old vs new house" is too simplistic a question to describe the range of age and condition of properties for sale.

I'm using that figure to compare 2 sets of houses - €100k+ is required to bring older house up to close to A rating and modernise.

So after spending the €100k+ the new and old houses are more comparable, in the area I'm referring to (Terenure).

Our decision to buy an early 1970s house that needed 180k work to it in Cork was purely down to location. We couldn't get a new house in the location we wanted.

We did look at some new houses around the area, but we found these houses were crammed into much smaller sites and they were typically over three storeys. I am sure that is not the case in some other areas, but in a city especially it makes sense that most of the best locations are already taken unless large areas of land free up.

We are also paying rent for a year while the planning and building phase is going on. Unless you have another place to live, this is another expense that means these houses are not an option for lots of people. That and the fact that it is hard to get finance for the renovation costs.

I would guess it will cost us approximately 75k more than the cost of buying a house in turnkey condition. However, we felt it was well worth it for a better location, with a bigger site and gardens and with neighbours we were able to suss out in advance while also being safe in the knowledge that there won't be any other developments in the area any time soon.

Renovating an older house is not for everyone but it has its rewards.

Irish_rat

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

I haven’t moved into my home yet, but I’m in a group with my neighbours on WhatsApp, have met them all at showings and they all seem like lovely people, we’re all around the same age and not to jinx it but seems like they’ll be all quiet and friendly and no grumpy dry ****es telling you a tree is blocking their light etc. Juxtapose this with my parents and they literally talk to one set of neighbours the odd time and it’s very much a “hi how’s the weather”.

I'm with your parents on this. In the end they're your neighbours not your best friends. Having a Watsapp group with the neighbourhood? That would be my worst nightmare. But I think it's nice to know either side next door to keep an eye on things when you're away.

On the debate over new versus old. I bought new and while I'm extremely happy where i am, the build quality is definetly cheap in places and its smaller than houses of the same price 2nd hand. Location it's an edge of city estate but in a nice suburb although not many amenities nearby.

If your looking for good location and good sized house/garden buy older house. If you like no diy, super warm small home with probably a bit smaller space buy new.