Papal Flights

GM228

Apologies if already asked, but any details on the Papal flights later this month?

I'm assuming Alitalia (usually a AZ 4000 call sign?? ) will be chartered to Dublin with Aer Lingus chartered for the internal and return flights which is generally the norm for Papal chartered flights?

afatbollix

Would Aerlingus change the seats for him?

Locker10a

afatbollix wrote: »

Would Aerlingus change the seats for him?

They may just use a 757 or a330 if they have one spare ? Wouldn’t business class do him ?

EchoIndia

I could be proved wrong but the days of Aer Lingus having a spare wide-body or even an A320 are largely gone, I would say.

Here is an article that speculates a bit on the issue. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/pope-airline-alitalia-bankrupt/

Tenzor07

I'd say he'll come in on a private jet, onto a helicopter over by the Aer Lingus hangar, place will be locked down tight too, essential airport/security staff only..

GM228

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I'd say he'll come in on a private jet , onto a helicopter over by the Aer Lingus hangar, place will be locked down tight too, essential airport/security staff only..

The pope always flies by a commercial carrier, Alitalia inbound and the national carrier outbound, and for any internal flights, that is the long standing tradition suggesting Aer Lingus for the return.

Can't see any helicopters used, from the official itinerary:-

DUBLIN-KNOCK-DUBLIN-ROME

8:40 Departure by plane for Knock
9:20 Arrival at the Airport in Knock
Immediate transfer to the Shrine
9:45 Arrival at Knock Shrine
Visit to the Chapel of Knock Shrine
Angelus on the square in front of the Shrine
10:45 Transfer to the airport in Knock
11:10 Arrival at the airport in Knock
11:15 Departure by plane for Dublin

Skuxx

EchoIndia wrote: »

I could be proved wrong but the days of Aer Lingus having a spare wide-body or even an A320 are largely gone, I would say.

Here is an article that speculates a bit on the issue. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/pope-airline-alitalia-bankrupt/

Let him pay the charter fee for the 320 and I'm sure EI will free one up!!

GM228

Skuxx wrote: »

Let him pay the charter fee for the 320 and I'm sure EI will free one up!!

Makes me wonder when is the last time they chartered an entire plane? Bray Air Show does not count

Skuxx

GM228 wrote: »

Makes me wonder when is the last time they chartered an entire plane? Bray Air Show does not count

According to www.thelingussource.com they had a charter to Loreint on August 2nd!

Tenzor07

GM228 wrote: »

The pope always flies by a commercial carrier, Alitalia inbound and the national carrier outbound, and for any internal flights, that is the long standing tradition suggesting Aer Lingus for the return.
Can't see any helicopters used, from the official itinerary:-

Hmm.. was wondering where to position for a bit of Pope spotting that morning he arrives!

Carawaystick

What did the pope do when he arrived last year from Egypt?

Under His Eye

He used AZ4000 as always and used Egyptair to get to FCO on the way back.

Is AZ4000 still on Italian plates? Most of Alitalia's stuff is on EI plates.

Coming on an Alitalia 320. Knock and back is EI 321 and flight back to Rome is an EI 321.

Arthur Daley

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Coming on an Alitalia 320. Knock and back is EI 321 and flight back to Rome is an EI 321.

Isn't Francis meant to be very low key. He was meant to have made his name taking public transport and living in a modest apartment around BA, Rome. So they could just use a stock A321, maybe give him one of the exit row seats to stretch the legs a bit.

Tenger

Deleted User wrote: »

Coming on an Alitalia 320. Knock and back is EI 321 and flight back to Rome is an EI 321.

Asked a mate a few days ago and he texted me last night to confirm that the return on the 26th is planned for an EI A321. Shame they don’t have the sparkly new A321LRs yet!

I remember reading in 1979 that EI had a B747 (EI-ASI) specially fitted for the JP2 visit, (private bedroom onboard and papal crest on fuselage) but that they had a 2nd temporarily named ‘St.Patrick’ as a backup.

ohnonotgmail

Tenger wrote: »

Asked a mate a few days ago and he texted me last night to confirm that the return on the 26th is planned for an EI A321. Shame they don’t have the sparkly new A321LRs yet!

I remember reading in 1979 that EI had a B747 (EI-ASI) specially fitted for the JP2 visit, (private bedroom onboard and papal crest on fuselage) but that they had a 2nd temporarily named ‘St.Patrick’ as a backup.

why would a bedroom be required on a flight from Italy to Ireland?

EchoIndia

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

why would a bedroom be required on a flight from Italy to Ireland?

The Pope left Ireland for the US and the same aircraft was used.

Tenger

EchoIndia wrote: »

The Pope left Ireland for the US and the same aircraft was used.

Glad you knew that answer. I would have had to dig out my EI history book.
Wasnt this the 1st time the Pope travelled non Alitalia to a destination?

EchoIndia

Tenger wrote: »

Glad you knew that answer. I would have had to dig out my EI history book.
Wasnt this the 1st time the Pope travelled non Alitalia to a destination?

I think so. I'm just going on memory as I am old enough to remember the events.

The other memorable feature of the 1979 visit was the use of several helicopters; the Gardai leased three West German Border Patrol (Bundesgrenzschutz) Puma helicopters, two KLM Helikopters S-61s served as transport for other members of the entourage and an Irish Helicopters Bell 212 served as the papal transport. All used "Papal" callsigns, e.g. "Papal 1", "Papal 2" etc.

Brennus335

And all for a man in a dress who hears voices in his head.

Pat Dunne

Tenger wrote: »

Glad you knew that answer. I would have had to dig out my EI history book.
Wasnt this the 1st time the Pope travelled non Alitalia to a destination?

Yes, this was the very first time that the Head of the Holy See, travelled on a non Alitalia flight. Arriving in DUB on EI-ASI St. Patrick B747-148.

I honestly don't know why I can remember such trivia.

GM228

Tenger wrote: »

I remember reading in 1979 that EI had a B747 (EI-ASI) specially fitted for the JP2 visit, (private bedroom onboard and papal crest on fuselage) but that they had a 2nd temporarily named ‘St.Patrick’ as a backup.

I forgot about that, but St. Patrick was the 747 he flew in on, don't think there was a backup.

I seem to recall the National Archives releasing documents years ago showing amongst other things that AL convinced the powers that be at the Vatican to let them fly him ex Italy as a publicity coup, the only airline to successfully do so.

Hector Savage

Good stuff here too ...

Tow

Who gets the job of cleaning/disinfecting the ground at the bottom of the stairs?

EchoIndia

The "Aer Lingus" titles above the door were non-standard and were, I think, added to ensure that the airline's name was in-shot at the pivotal moment when the Pope stepped out of the aircraft.

Nforce

From memory, as I was just a young lad back in '79, but didn't the Air Corps Fougas escort the Pope into Dublin for his visit? Wonder if the PC-9s will do the same this time.

peter1892

Nforce wrote: »

From memory, as I was just a young lad back in '79, but didn't the Air Corps Fougas escort the Pope into Dublin for his visit? Wonder if the PC-9s will do the same this time.

They did - low fly past over the park as well (it seemed low to 6 year old me at the time!). That was the most exciting part of the day

HTCOne

GM228 wrote: »

I forgot about that, but St. Patrick was the 747 he flew in on, don't think there was a backup.

There was an EI 707 on standby in FCO in case the 747 went tech.

Under His Eye

Just how many 747's did EI have lying around?

L1011

Fleet was 3 normally with 1 often leased out. Between those and the 707s they had plenty for the very few TATL frequencies they had at the time.

EchoIndia

This old RTE documentary contains some aviation footage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsSakT6DkYY

Tenger

HTCOne wrote: »

There was an EI 707 on standby in FCO in case the 747 went tech.

Ah. So not another B747 then.
Im confused about the timings then. 2 of the 3 B747 were named St.Patrick at one time. I assumed it was around then, must have been another time due to leasing one out.

GM228

Tenger wrote: »

Ah. So not another B747 then.
Im confused about the timings then. 2 of the 3 B747 were named St.Patrick at one time. I assumed it was around then, must have been another time due to leasing one out.

I think EI-ASJ was St. Patrick from 1971 to 1975, EI-ASI was St. Patrick 1979 to 1994.

emo72

Small twin prop circling over Dublin West. Kylemore road area. Any ideas?

EchoIndia

emo72 wrote: »

Small twin prop circling over Dublin West. Kylemore road area. Any ideas?

Unlikely to be Pope-related.

emo72

EchoIndia wrote: »

Unlikely to be Pope-related.

It didn't seem to be going anywhere flew around in a circle about 6 times. This area is being shut down with road closures at the visit. So I was wondering if it was surveying or something.

nim1bdeh38l2cw

emo72 wrote: »

It didn't seem to be going anywhere flew around in a circle about 6 times. This area is being shut down with road closures at the visit. So I was wondering if it was surveying or something.

Twas Frank himself over for a recce.

Tenger

emo72 wrote: »

It didn't seem to be going anywhere flew around in a circle about 6 times. This area is being shut down with road closures at the visit. So I was wondering if it was surveying or something.

Saw it myself over Sandymount, looked to be a survey plane perhaps.

Jamie2k9

https://twitter.com/Michaelkelly707/status/1031863430469312512

GM228

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Michaelkelly707/status/1031863430469312512

Flights as I suspected so, thanks Jamie.

L1011

1979, 2018... 2408. The next visit year? :pac:

goingnowhere

2408 is actually a normal 'extra' flight, so its an extra 408 which is a Dublin to Rome flight

DOCARCH

Sad state of affairs that we no longer have air corp jets to accompany the papal flight!

One of my only and lasting memories of the 1979 papal visit (...I was 7) was walking to the Phoenix Park, and just outside the park, seeing the Pope's aircraft (Aer Lingus 747 IIRC) fly straight over, relatively low, on the way to DUB, flanked by two jets (I assume Fouga).

nim1bdeh38l2cw

DOCARCH wrote: »

Sad state of affairs that we no longer have air corp jets to accompany the papal flight!

One of my only and lasting memories of the 1979 papal visit (...I was 7) was walking to the Phoenix Park, and just outside the park, seeing the Pope's aircraft (Aer Lingus 747 IIRC) fly straight over, relatively low, on the way to DUB, flanked by two jets (I assume Fouga).

The PC-9s can do 300 knots so they are capable of doing the job, granted they're not jet powered obviously.

DOCARCH

moloner4 wrote: »

I'd hope they won't do anything. He has done nothing to the irish people so why does he deserve a military escort?

Not really my point! Lack of Air Corps jets was the point.

Tenger

moloner4 wrote: »

I'd hope they won't do anything. He has done nothing to the irish people so why does he deserve a military escort?

The Pope is the head of The Holy See is is usually accorded formalities associated with visiting Heads of State. In addition this visit has the added symbolism as he is the Head of the Roman Catholic Church, which is the most common religion in the nation.

Regardless of your personal views the formalities will be observed.
EG, a few years ago the Pope flew to NY. There was a ground stop in JFK on his arrival and then again a little later as he left via Marine HMX-1 helicopter with 4 ship MV-22 Osprey escort.

FYI no training has been conducted this week for any formation flying with a jet. Usually the would practice with the Lear but I haven’t seen anything.

Brennus335

Deleted User wrote: »

FYI no training has been conducted this week for any formation flying with a jet. Usually the would practice with the Lear but I haven’t seen anything.

https://twitter.com/IACFlyingSchool/status/1031621619343679488?s=19

Brennus335

Brennus335 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/IACFlyingSchool/status/1031621619343679488?s=19

Well there ya go then. Thanks for the correction.

Cloudio9

Brennus335 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/IACFlyingSchool/status/1031621619343679488?s=19

Doubt the Alitalia Airbus will want them that close.

Pat Dunne

Cloudio9 wrote: »

Doubt the Alitalia Airbus will want them that close.

Not if the crew happen to be ex Frecce Tricolori members. They'd what them even closer!