Is southern Africa about to kick off?

Danzy

keffiyeh wrote: »

"Ethnic cleansing of white people"

???

Newsflash folks, SA is an invasion, a colony on land that belongs to black people.

I swear half of you would be arguing for Oliver Cromwell had boards been around back then.

"White genocide" dialogue is not only a complete falsification but you out yourself as a racist by trying it.

If Black South African want a pure ethno State then that is their business but they are going about it in a way of making it untenable for White South Africans to stay and that includes intimidation and large scale murder.

They have to be willing to break their economy in the process.

Agriculture while one a small % of their economy still employs or supports 8 million

judeboy101

"Newsflash folks, SA is an invasion, a colony on land that belongs to black people."

I'm pretty sure that most land was owned by chiefs and kings back in the day, fellas who sold their land to brits and Dutch in exchange for support against their rivals.

In fact the current dominant tribes in SA stole the land from the original inhabitants in concurrent waves starting in the 14th century, the zulus arrived after Europeans !!!

Hande hoche!

keffiyeh wrote: »

"Ethnic cleansing of white people"

???

Newsflash folks, SA is an invasion, a colony on land that belongs to black people.

I swear half of you would be arguing for Oliver Cromwell had boards been around back then.

"White genocide" dialogue is not only a complete falsification but you out yourself as a racist by trying it.

Can't say this line of thinking is particularly convincing. Would you be of the opinion that the US belongs solely to the Native Americans or Australia to the aborigines?

keffiyeh

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Can't say this line of thinking is particularly convincing. Would you be of the opinion that the US belongs solely to the Native Americans or Australia to the aborigines?

I believe that it's their rightful home and that nobody had the right to land on their shores and decimate their lives and futures, yes. Not sure what's so unconvincing about that.



Oh and just to reiterate, anybody who unironically uses the term 'white genocide' is a bit of a joke.



There's people in this thread arguing that blacks had a better quality of life under Apartheid! WTF! Like where the **** are the mods???? This is literal racist rhetoric!

Eric Cartman

SA imwas actually safer for blacks and whites under apartheid which says how much of a bad state its in now, this white extraction and genocide will leave the country in a starving ruin and cement them as a third world state. SA needs white people in society and in politics again

keffiyeh

elli21 wrote: »

I am one who protested against Apartheid..I am married to a Boer.



What's happening now in SA is worse than Apartheid (which was wrong on so many levels)

Apartheid was never about raping and murdering people because of the colour of their skin


There is a massive influx of SA whites fleeing now and it's just heart breacking to listen to them asking for info about how to escape

I just wish folk stop concentrating on white farmers.....these tribes with Juju reiling them up have declared war on white people...

Now even the Xhosa have issued a warning to whites

Utterly and disgustingly transparently racist. Worse than Apartheid??? Are you serious?



"Apartheid was never about raping and murdering people because of the colour of their skin"


No it was about oppressing them and dehumanizing them because of the colour of their skin. Murder and rape were byproducts.



"There is a massive influx of SA whites fleeing now and it's just heart breacking to listen to them asking for info about how to escape"


Someone tell them all about airplanes and airports then. They don't have the money to fly out and get set up back where their ancestors are from? Well if your heart is breaking for them so much I'm sure you'll help some of them out.


Damn those black meanies eh! lol so transparent and gross. Cromwell would be giggling in his grave at the gross **** Irish people post on this board. Disgusting, seriously.

elli21

keffiyeh wrote: »

Utterly and disgustingly transparently racist. Worse than Apartheid??? Are you serious?



"Apartheid was never about raping and murdering people because of the colour of their skin"


No it was about oppressing them and dehumanizing them because of the colour of their skin. Murder and rape were byproducts.



"There is a massive influx of SA whites fleeing now and it's just heart breacking to listen to them asking for info about how to escape"


Someone tell them all about airplanes and airports then. They don't have the money to fly out and get set up back where their ancestors are from? Well if your heart is breaking for them so much I'm sure you'll help some of them out.


Damn those black meanies eh! lol so transparent and gross. Cromwell would be giggling in his grave at the gross **** Irish people post on this board. Disgusting, seriously.

Do you not realise that it's OK to be against racism no matter who it's against?


And you have posted one hell of a racist post telling people to go back where their ancestors come from.Would you walk around Europe telling black people to go back to where their ancestors come from? I would guess no because that would be racist.

Yes white South African's know how to use airplanes ...but they don't have FOM and unless you are on the critical skills list or have the benefit of being able to trace your ancestory to 2nd generation you are foked

Chips Lovell

OK folks. We've already had one person banned in the past 24 hours. Let's not have any more. If you can't post in a civil fashion, don't post. And if you haven't read the charter, please do so now.

Thanks

seamus

keffiyeh wrote: »

"Ethnic cleansing of white people"

???

Newsflash folks, SA is an invasion, a colony on land that belongs to black people.

By that logic, every country on earth is a colony, populated by invaders.

How far back, exactly, do we go to determine who rightfully "owns" the land they live on?

Native Americans were once "colonists". Australian Aboriginals were once "colonists".

We must recognise that every person's birth is an accident of circumstance. A white person born in South Africa is not an "invader" just because a distant ancestor was.

Likewise a Black person born in the UK is not "African" just because their ancestor was.

An individual's ancestry gives them no rights except over the land they were born on, nor do the crimes of their ancestors carry forward.

A white South African has exactly the same rights as a black one, and vice-versa.

Anyone who claims otherwise, is racist.

Any attempt to remove, either through force or displacement, an ethnicity from their home, is genocide.

People who overlook this kind of behaviour on the basis of the "sins of the (grand)father" are the worst kind of hypocrite.

keffiyeh

keffiyeh wrote: »

Utterly and disgustingly transparently racist. Worse than Apartheid??? Are you serious?



"Apartheid was never about raping and murdering people because of the colour of their skin"


No it was about oppressing them and dehumanizing them because of the colour of their skin. Murder and rape were byproducts.



"There is a massive influx of SA whites fleeing now and it's just heart breacking to listen to them asking for info about how to escape"


Someone tell them all about airplanes and airports then. They don't have the money to fly out and get set up back where their ancestors are from? Well if your heart is breaking for them so much I'm sure you'll help some of them out.


Damn those black meanies eh! lol so transparent and gross. Cromwell would be giggling in his grave at the gross **** Irish people post on this board. Disgusting, seriously.

Typical response to people stating what is actually happening in SA, your a racist, same rhetoric being used by every black politician in SA, the minute you say BBBEEEEE (note sarcastic at the amount of times they have changed it) or affirmative action is gone too far you are a racist. I was in SA for a good few years, what amazed me was you would have afrikaaners driving bangers of cars but have a house while you see brand new mercs and bmws outside shacks. And before you say it, i know there is genuine poor blacks, i am just giving an indication of priorities.

No one on this thread is saying apartheid was right and most white south africans do admit it was wrong, but people tend to forget the whites voted for the talks to continue with the national party and the ANC. And dont come back with they had no choice, the south african army could have marched to Cairo that time. Fact is at the time whites wanted change as well/.

What has happened since is a systematic devaluation of white peoples rights since the end of apartheid, all their fears that was once called paranoia has come through. Whites have been forced into shacks because of quotas, so back to your point, they can barely afford millie pap not mind a plane ticket with start up money.

God help Ireland if a reunification debate ever starts, you will have the unionists as second class citizens as they invaded.

I would love to know your definition of black, are the algerians, libyans black? Because the koi-san were of the same complexion and as stated it was continual invasions that led to so many central africans migrating to south africa. Or are you being racist and deeming africa as one? Akin to saying any European has a right to anywhere in Europe

Chips Lovell

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

OK folks. We've already had one person banned in the past 24 hours. Let's not have any more. If you can't post in a civil fashion, don't post. And if you haven't read the charter, please do so now.

Thanks

One more person has been been banned.

Taytoland

blackwhite wrote: »

Whilst the whole "race war" and "white genocide" stuff is obvious sensationalist scaremongering, there is definitely a major shift in SA over the past 10 years making it a fairly unwelcoming place for white South Africans (Boer/Afrikaner descent).

I've worked with quite a number of South Africans in a few different countries over the years. A common complaint is that anything Govt related will show fairly blatant favoritism to non-whites (be it priority for services, applications for jobs, tendering for contracts, etc) and that the enforcement of quotas (both officially and unofficially) is rampant - all in an effort to "make up for" how things were under Apartheid.

Now I know to take some of the complaints with a pinch of salt - I'm sure their own personal biases come into this a bit as well - but it's a fairly consistent complaint from both those who have emigrated permanently, and from those who were still working in SA.

How is it scaremongering when they are being slaughtered and having the farmland taken off them? All I see is a reverse onto whites slowly but surely but so many are denial about it. Soon the whites will arm themselves and fight back, ironically.

blackwhite

Taytoland wrote: »

How is it scaremongering when they are being slaughtered and having the farmland taken off them? All I see is a reverse onto whites slowly but surely but so many are denial about it. Soon the whites will arm themselves and fight back, ironically.

I’ve yet to here an actual South African use either phrase TBH.

Any white SAffers I’ve met through work or otherwise have had a fairly consistent complaint that their home country is getting more and more hostile to whites in some misguided attempt to “balance things up.”

Yet none that I’ve met have ever claimed there’s a genocide, or anything like that, going on.

The murders and land grabs are not as widespread as some would like to imply - but they make headlines so seem much more prevelant than is reality. Farm nursery’s have decreased over the last 20 years, not increased, it’s just that the internet means people are more exposed to the news now than were before.

Any SAffer I’ve talked to seems to believe these murders are robberies as opposed to racially motivated - and are symptomatic of an incompetent Govt who don’t want to be seen to clamp down on black crime, but not really related to race.

There’s a genuine fear and anger around the proposed land grabs - but this is seen as yet another step on the road of misguided “balancing the past” as opposed to an attempt to drive out the Boer.
The white South actually believe that the ANC wants them to stay, but revert to the roles that black SAffers had under apartheid, and they are determined to leave rather than fall into that.

blackwhite

blackwhite wrote: »

I’ve yet to here an actual South African use either phrase TBH.

Any white SAffers I’ve met through work or otherwise have had a fairly consistent complaint that their home country is getting more and more hostile to whites in some misguided attempt to “balance things up.”

Yet none that I’ve met have ever claimed there’s a genocide, or anything like that, going on.

The murders and land grabs are not as widespread as some would like to imply - but they make headlines so seem much more prevelant than is reality. Farm nursery’s have decreased over the last 20 years, not increased, it’s just that the internet means people are more exposed to the news now than were before.

Any SAffer I’ve talked to seems to believe these murders are robberies as opposed to racially motivated - and are symptomatic of an incompetent Govt who don’t want to be seen to clamp down on black crime, but not really related to race.

There’s a genuine fear and anger around the proposed land grabs - but this is seen as yet another step on the road of misguided “balancing the past” as opposed to an attempt to drive out the Boer.
The white South actually believe that the ANC wants them to stay, but revert to the roles that black SAffers had under apartheid, and they are determined to leave rather than fall into that.

Not in my experience of living there. Many definitely do believe farm attacks are racially motivated. Gunshots to the back of the head and nothing robbed, women absolutely and horrifically tortured. It’s not the internet, I have seen first hand how me as white skilled worker imported from Ireland to fill the skills shortages was not counted under BEE but skilled white South Africans with the same qualifications couldn’t get a job cos they were white South African.

The majority of white South Africans I knew over there didn’t see a future for their kids and were planning exits, others just didnt have the means to plan and were stuck in the situation with bleak prospects.

The black South Africans I knew also feared the muttering of Julius malema and although were angry about the past, they knew the war talk of Julius would get them nowhere

It’s a country I left cos I could detach and see where it was going. Living behind electric fences and bars on your windows with armed response is no way to live but it’s become the norm

blackwhite

Deleted User wrote: »

Not in my experience of living there. Many definitely do believe farm attacks are racially motivated. Gunshots to the back of the head and nothing robbed, women absolutely and horrifically tortured. It’s not the internet, I have seen first hand how me as white skilled worker imported from Ireland to fill the skills shortages was not counted under BEE but skilled white South Africans with the same qualifications couldn’t get a job cos they were white South African.

The majority of white South Africans I knew over there didn’t see a future for their kids and were planning exits, others just didnt have the means to plan and were stuck in the situation with bleak prospects.

The black South Africans I knew also feared the muttering of Julius malema and although were angry about the past, they knew the war talk of Julius would get them nowhere

It’s a country I left cos I could detach and see where it was going. Living behind electric fences and bars on your windows with armed response is no way to live but it’s become the norm

TBH, the SAffers I know have said the same regarding the future - but because they see the country as doomed to failure due to the incompetence of the ANC, and some because they think that whites will be treated as 2nd class citizens until things reach rock bottom.

I’ve yet to meet any who’ve claimed that there was a genocide coming.

blackwhite

blackwhite wrote: »

TBH, the SAffers I know have said the same regarding the future - but because they see the country as doomed to failure due to the incompetence of the ANC, and some because they think that whites will be treated as 2nd class citizens until things reach rock bottom.

I’ve yet to meet any who’ve claimed that there was a genocide coming.

I don’t think a genocide will happen as the whites will fight back, it’s at a precarious place at the moment. I have recently the anc has backtracked slightly with AgriSA as the rand is plummeting (not all land but not helping) and investor appetite is falling as land grabs will undermine property rights.

It’s a waiting game now really, fingers crossed it will stabilize but the hatred and mistrust has surged in recent years

The incredible influx of South Africans into Vietnam continues. You never used to see then and now you hear them everywhere.

They all the say the same thing about SA right now.

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

I don’t think a genocide will happen as the whites will fight back, it’s at a precarious place at the moment. I have recently the anc has backtracked slightly with AgriSA as the rand is plummeting (not all land but not helping) and investor appetite is falling as land grabs will undermine property rights.

It’s a waiting game now really, fingers crossed it will stabilize but the hatred and mistrust has surged in recent years

One would hope that SA is more sensitive to market forces and foreign investor sentiment than Zimbabwe was, so politicians won't sacrifice the economy at the altar of ideology.

That said, the value of the Rand has more than halved since 2010. I know less than nothing about SA economics, but that kind of ongoing dismal performance would indicate to me a country that's struggling with political infighting and not paying much attention to their performance on the world stage.

Kermit.de.frog

US State Department to keep a close eye.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1032454567152246785


I know it's Trump but still other governments are also likely to condemn and this is where the reputational damage comes in - exact same path as Zimbabwe.

Nody

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

US State Department to keep a close eye.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1032454567152246785


I know it's Trump but still other governments are also likely to condemn and this is where the reputational damage comes in - exact same path as Zimbabwe.

Only because Trump saw Fox News runs a news piece on it; as always Trump has no self awareness of doing any actual research or fact checking on his own and most items can be found by simply looking at what Fox presented in the hour before the tweet.

Mancomb Seepgood

Good Twitter thread from an Afrikaaner perspective on Trump's tweet here: https://twitter.com/lomikriel/status/1032459328417144832?s=19

Article by Cyril Ramaphosa in the FT today: https://www.ft.com/content/c81543d8-a61b-11e8-926a-7342fe5e173f

The inequalities in land ownership patterns have to be resolved one way or another,I would hope that expropriation without compensation won't be used against productive farmers (I don't think it will).A long way to go on this but the examples Ramaphosa gave of when it might be appropriate don't seem too outrageous to me.

batgoat

This twitter moments sums up some additional facts. SA really is being manipulated by extremists who favour apartheid era South Africa, something that is most definitely not something to be wished for.

https://twitter.com/i/moments/1032700601870807042

Kermit.de.frog

Of course the situation is manipulated by extremists.

Does not change the fact SA is headed the way of Zimbabwe. That is government policy.

judeboy101

Dr Brown wrote: »

Odhinn wrote: »

A ridiculous and loaded question. He was resisting an evil regime by the means deemed most likely to succeed.

So its OK to kill innocent people in pursuit of political aims ?

What makes Mandela any different to the people who carried out the omagh bomb ?

Good PR, that's what.

Kermit.de.frog

https://twitter.com/Imamofpeace/status/1033661622995148801

https://twitter.com/DaanBarnard/status/1034013582130929664


It seems like an increasingly difficult situation being manipulated by extremists on both sides but the evidence would suggest the lions share of extremism is from elements within the black SA community and egged on by their leaders.

The question is what will the international community do, if anything, about pogroms against white farmers?

This will be a difficult question for all of us who were dead set against apartheid because it would be a complete reversal. I would like to see people come out just as strongly against this developing problem as they did then.

elli21

Sorry to bring up an old thread


Anyone that sits around a spit or a Braai knows how **** will spread
.

Now I''m being told that Cork is the main capital of child traficars "globally

So much bad is happening in SA right now ...but Don't make up ****

elli21

elli21 wrote: »

Sorry to bring up an old thread


Anyone that sits around a spit or a Braai knows how **** will spread
.

Now I''m being told that Cork is the main capital of child traficars "globally

So much bad is happening in SA right now ...but Don't make up ****

totally confused by your cork reference or what your actually on about