PTSB selling mortgages to vulture funds

smelly sock

So they have floated the idea for a while but now look to be executing it. Anyone who is not engaging or is not bothering paying a cent I have no sympathy for.
However my question is will this enable them to lower their standard variable interest rates? We here a lot of people advocating repossession and evictions of family homes for this very reason.

Will they fook lower their rates.

davidmarsh

They've sold a batch of bad loans to Start Mortgages.

But do Permanent TSB not own Start Mortgages?

smelly sock

davidmarsh wrote: »

They've sold a batch of bad loans to Start Mortgages.

But do Permanent TSB not own Start Mortgages?

Pretty sure Start are owned Lone Stsr.

duffman13

smelly sock wrote: »

Pretty sure Start are owned Lone Stsr.

This is correct.

To the OP, From a lending perspective they are far better structured to lend now again. The loans sold are chronic and tbh I'm shocked they got over 50 cent on the euro for them. They reduced their bad debts considerably but I'd say it'll be 12-18 months before they'll get somewhat aggressive in the market and drop rates. They still have a way to go to meet central bank recommendations

lfcsean101

currently renting a house that has been sold to start mortgages from ptsb anyone know what my situation is ? i have been renting said house for 5 years and have a 3 year lease on it

hmmm

Banks have to take big writedowns on these delinguent loans, many of who seem to be "strategic defaulters".

Why would this make them lower their rates? The problem for the banks is that currently if someone doesn't really bother paying their mortgage, they have very little they can do other than sell the loan at a loss.

hanaimai

lfcsean101 wrote: »

currently renting a house that has been sold to start mortgages from ptsb anyone know what my situation is ? i have been renting said house for 5 years and have a 3 year lease on it

No change. The house is no more likely to be repossessed under Start than it was under PTSB. What really matters is whether your landlord is co-operating with the mortgage owner (whoever it is) to try and get the arrears sorted (assuming he is in arrears, which most of the loans that were sold are).

Sin City

Not all are strategic defaulters

I ran into difficulty and couldn't make payments for a bit have since sorted my self out and have been in restructure agreements with the bank and have always met the payments in full on time

My mortgage is to be sold off and I honestly don't know what to do or expect

These vulture funds will probably sell the house from under me

Queue homeless crises increase

hanaimai

Sin City wrote: »

Not all are strategic defaulters

I ran into difficulty and couldn't make payments for a bit have since sorted my self out and have been in restructure agreements with the bank and have always met the payments in full on time

My mortgage is to be sold off and I honestly don't know what to do or expect

These vulture funds will probably sell the house from under me

Queue homeless crises increase

Your protections are the same, nothing will change. They have to keep whatever restructure arrangement you're in now until review time. At review time they have to consider all options and show you why the option they are offering is the most suitable for you.

As long as you keep to your terms and keep paying you've absolutely nothing to worry about.

Hennesm

I have had a mortgage for 19 years and 5 months . I fell behind last year when my dad died , my marriage collapsed and my job ended . I am in a re structure agreement and owe approx €2900 on a house that’s worth about €180000 . Of that €800 is arrears . I am in an agreement and have been in constant contact with the bank . I’m terrified to put it mildly and cannot believe that they have done this to me . Especially when I know my boss had two buy to let’s that were re structured over a a new 15 years deal recently . What can I do ??

Sin City

Hennesm wrote: »

I have had a mortgage for 19 years and 5 months . I fell behind last year when my dad died , my marriage collapsed and my job ended . I am in a re structure agreement and owe approx €2900 on a house that’s worth about €180000 . Of that €800 is arrears . I am in an agreement and have been in constant contact with the bank . I’m terrified to put it mildly and cannot believe that they have done this to me . Especially when I know my boss had two buy to let’s that were re structured over a a new 15 years deal recently . What can I do ??

Im in the same boat as you
Similar situation too

I hope the above poster is right and we have nothing to worry about - but something tells me we will get shafted so the vulture funds can make a quick profit

Sin City

hanaimai wrote: »

Your protections are the same, nothing will change. They have to keep whatever restructure arrangement you're in now until review time. At review time they have to consider all options and show you why the option they are offering is the most suitable for you.

As long as you keep to your terms and keep paying you've absolutely nothing to worry about.

I hope your right

CeilingFly

If a mortgage has been restructured and you are keeping tothe agreement, it is not part of the sale of distressed loans.

That has been stated publically by ptsb

The loans sold are those scammers who refused to engage and have lived scot free for several years.

The buyer of the loan will not be open to sudden miniscule payment discussion and will simply move to repossess unless a very good payment plan is forthcoming.

If its a buy to rent property, they may appoint a rent receiver but must adhere to any lease agreement.

As for bringing rates down. It probably will but not immediately.

Remember every cent spent on legal fees against these scamming strategic defaulters and every cent of loss on the sale of the loans has to come from somewhere.

Variable rate mortgage holders are paying the lions share of the costs dealing with these strategic defaulter scammers.

Btw. Someone that engages with the bank and comes to an agreement is NOT a strategic defaulter.

In most European countries, if you don't pay and don't engage you are out of the house within 6 months and usually even quicker than that with minimal legal costs.

Here you can frustrate the process for several years - hence no new bank has come in to the market.

Hennesm

CeilingFly wrote: »

If a mortgage has been restructured and you are keeping tothe agreement, it is not part of the sale of distressed loans.

That has been stated publically by ptsb

The loans sold are those scammers who refused to engage and have lived scot free for several years.

The buyer of the loan will not be open to sudden miniscule payment discussion and will simply move to repossess unless a very good payment plan is forthcoming.

If its a buy to rent property, they may appoint a rent receiver but must adhere to any lease agreement.

As for bringing rates down. It probably will but not immediately.

Remember every cent spent on legal fees against these scamming strategic defaulters and every cent of loss on the sale of the loans has to come from somewhere.

Variable rate mortgage holders are paying the lions share of the costs dealing with these strategic defaulter scammers.

Btw. Someone that engages with the bank and comes to an agreement is NOT a strategic defaulter.

In most European countries, if you don't pay and don't engage you are out of the house within 6 months and usually even quicker than that with minimal legal costs.

Here you can frustrate the process for several years - hence no new bank has come in to the market.

My loan has been sold . I am not a scammer . I am paying and have done so for 19 years and five months .
No new back has come to the market because there are no new banks and the banks over lent in the past and the housing market is driven by landlords not people in need of homes !

Fol20

Hennesm wrote: »

My loan has been sold . I am not a scammer . I am paying and have done so for 19 years and five months .
No new back has come to the market because there are no new banks and the banks over lent in the past and the housing market is driven by landlords not people in need of homes !

Where are you getting this from? Currently the stats indicate the landlords are leaving the market and there are much more loans for standard residential loans.

I believe no new banks have entered the market as we are too small and secondly as others have posted it’s very difficult to reposes here

CeilingFly

Hennesm wrote: »

I. I’m terrified to put it mildly and cannot believe that they have done this to me .

Who says they did this to you?

Never ever believe the hysterical sh1te in the media.

A few hundred arrears is nothing and would never ever be considered as a non performing loan in any way shape or form in any circumstance.

The mortgages sold by banks are only those that are considered "non cooperating" and you would have had written correspondence to state that your loan would be listed as such and you get a final chance to engage. Then if you did not engage, you'd get another letter confirming that your loan was considered a non performing loan.

ALL of these are people who are YEARS in arrears and have refused to engage with the bank.


You don't even come on the radar with €800 arrears. So no need to fret in any way whatsoever.

CeilingFly

lfcsean101 wrote: »

currently renting a house that has been sold to start mortgages from ptsb anyone know what my situation is ? i have been renting said house for 5 years and have a 3 year lease on it

Thst would have been in a previous sale of investment mortgages and not the sale last week.

It won't make any change to you immediately and your lease stands.

If the landlord is not cooperating, they will probably appoint a rent receiver and only difference for you is you'd be paying into a different bank account.

But everything else is as before, but they may not offer a new lease when the current one expires

Hennesm

CeilingFly wrote: »

Who says they did this to you?

Never ever believe the hysterical sh1te in the media.

A few hundred arrears is nothing and would never ever be considered as a non performing loan in any way shape or form in any circumstance.

The mortgages sold by banks are only those that are considered "non cooperating" and you would have had written correspondence to state that your loan would be listed as such and you get a final chance to engage. Then if you did not engage, you'd get another letter confirming that your loan was considered a non performing loan.

ALL of these are people who are YEARS in arrears and have refused to engage with the bank.


You don't even come on the radar with €800 arrears. So no need to fret in any way whatsoever.

PTSB are telling me . They sent me a letter yesterday telling me so . Despite what they are saying in the media my situation is a reality .and a very scary one . I have been classed as under performing and hence been sold . Start mortgages can do whatever they want with me as my agreement expires next month.
I am of course job hunting like mad but the west of Ireland is not rich in jobs .
I am terrified . I have done everything by the book and €800 might be a small sum but it's still arrears and a new company can treat me however they wish .

Sin City

I'd be in the same boat
A few grand in arrears but have been co operating with the bank and keeping up payments

I also got the letter yesterday

Hennesm

Sin City wrote: »

I'd be in the same boat
A few grand in arrears but have been co operating with the bank and keeping up payments

I also got the letter yesterday

Terrifying isn't it ? I couldn't believe it as I thought if you were in an arrangement you would be OK ? I phoned them yesterday and got a girl on the 'overflow ' line who couldn't only confirm my details . I'm awaiting a call back . I had no warning , nothing . Just the letter I received yesterday saying my loan had sold .

Sin City

Hennesm wrote: »

Terrifying isn't it ? I couldn't believe it as I thought if you were in an arrangement you would be OK ? I phoned them yesterday and got a girl on the 'overflow ' line who couldn't only confirm my details . I'm awaiting a call back . I had no warning , nothing . Just the letter I received yesterday saying my loan had sold .

Im the same
came home from work to find the letter and have been anxious ever since

I cant see the "new Lender" accepting mortgage rates
I can see them trying to maximize profits as soon as possible

Hennesm

Sin City wrote: »

Im the same
came home from work to find the letter and have been anxious ever since

I cant see the "new Lender" accepting mortgage rates
I can see them trying to maximize profits as soon as possible

Exactly . God knows what the interest rate will be .

oceanman

banks are the scum of the earth...

CeilingFly

OK - seems its a different loan book than the one I had researched last month.

Only 30% of the loans in this sale were non performing.

It has been sold to Start mortgages. Start are regulated by the central bank and therefore are not a "vulture fund" in the way the media sensationalise. They cannot raise your interest above what is written in your agreement, but they can be stricter on how they deal with you if you are in arrears.

They cannot change any agreement you already have made

So if you are keeping with an agreement, no issues at all.


But the extended leeway than some people took/abused will not be tolerated by start - they don't care about public image and getting new customers the way banks do.

So if you are up to date and keeping to whatever agreement you have. There is no change. They also cannot choose to increase the interest rate as your written mortgage agreement is what matters.

Sin City

CeilingFly wrote: »

OK - seems its a different loan book than the one I had researched last month.

Only 30% of the loans in this sale were non performing.

It has been sold to Start mortgages. Start are regulated by the central bank and therefore are not a "vulture fund" in the way the media sensationalise. They cannot raise your interest above what is written in your agreement, but they can be stricter on how they deal with you if you are in arrears.

They cannot change any agreement you already have made

So if you are keeping with an agreement, no issues at all.


But the extended leeway than some people took/abused will not be tolerated by start - they don't care about public image and getting new customers the way banks do.

So if you are up to date and keeping to whatever agreement you have. There is no change. They also cannot choose to increase the interest rate as your written mortgage agreement is what matters.

I hope your right as I said

Im just thinking these guys want to turn a profit and quickly

Images of rates being raised to an impossible standard to get homes repossessed and sold off to get said profit is running through my head

CeilingFly

Start also adhere to the CCMA - Central Bank's Code of Conduct for Mortgage Arrears.

However if you are classified as non-cooperating then you lose that protection.

The banks usually gave a second and third and fourth chance. Start don't.

https://www.start.ie/ArrearsHelp.aspx

CeilingFly

The askaboutmoney site is very good for information on this.

They are extremely strict on how you post. Questions are answered by people with expertise. But ranting like post above is not tolerated - hence its more informative

https://www.askaboutmoney.com/forums/mortgage-arrears-negative-equity-case-studies.93/

Hennesm

CeilingFly wrote: »

OK - seems its a different loan book than the one I had researched last month.

Only 30% of the loans in this sale were non performing.

It has been sold to Start mortgages. Start are regulated by the central bank and therefore are not a "vulture fund" in the way the media sensationalise. They cannot raise your interest above what is written in your agreement, but they can be stricter on how they deal with you if you are in arrears.

They cannot change any agreement you already have made

So if you are keeping with an agreement, no issues at all.


But the extended leeway than some people took/abused will not be tolerated by start - they don't care about public image and getting new customers the way banks do.

So if you are up to date and keeping to whatever agreement you have. There is no change. They also cannot choose to increase the interest rate as your written mortgage agreement is what matters.

I have 7 months left so I suppose it all depends on what there version of up to date is . Once they say you are in arrears they can envoke whatever fees they want and they can impose a higher interest rate once I’m in arrears , which technically I am . This is not how they sold it to the media but I’m quite sure the government knows .

Hennesm

CeilingFly wrote: »

OK - seems its a different loan book than the one I had researched last month.

Only 30% of the loans in this sale were non performing.

It has been sold to Start mortgages. Start are regulated by the central bank and therefore are not a "vulture fund" in the way the media sensationalise. They cannot raise your interest above what is written in your agreement, but they can be stricter on how they deal with you if you are in arrears.

They cannot change any agreement you already have made

So if you are keeping with an agreement, no issues at all.


But the extended leeway than some people took/abused will not be tolerated by start - they don't care about public image and getting new customers the way banks do.

So if you are up to date and keeping to whatever agreement you have. There is no change. They also cannot choose to increase the interest rate as your written mortgage agreement is what matters.

I have 7 months left so I suppose it all depends on what there version of up to date is . Once they say you are in arrears they can envoke whatever fees they want and they can impose a higher interest rate once I’m in arrears , which technically I am . This is not how they sold it to the media but I’m quite sure the government knows .

Turbohymac

Very good ceilingfly. You seem well informed on start. I wonder how you would feel towards ptsb if you have been through months of trying to sort out basic issues and with a solicitor and pip also very frustrated on my side. There are many people that currently feel very angry and annoyed..thanks for advice but I Actually do have a right to rant.. most people do

chrismon

Hennesm wrote: »

PTSB are telling me . They sent me a letter yesterday telling me so . Despite what they are saying in the media my situation is a reality .and a very scary one . I have been classed as under performing and hence been sold . Start mortgages can do whatever they want with me as my agreement expires next month.
I am of course job hunting like mad but the west of Ireland is not rich in jobs .
I am terrified . I have done everything by the book and €800 might be a small sum but it's still arrears and a new company can treat me however they wish .

€800 in arrears and your mortgage was sold?
That's crazy, the media was reporting it would be people not paying for 3+ years.

Sin City

chrismon wrote: »

€800 in arrears and your mortgage was sold?
That's crazy, the media was reporting it would be people not paying for 3+ years.

Media have it wrong then

Its any loan that is in arrears for any period of time

Sin City

Question is what will they do for homes in negative equity

The banks were reluctant to repossess those with parties that would engage as they were not worth talking

however if smart bought the loans at a discount they wont be as accommodating

CeilingFly

Hennesm wrote: »

I have 7 months left so I suppose it all depends on what there version of up to date is . Once they say you are in arrears they can envoke whatever fees they want and they can impose a higher interest rate once I’m in arrears , which technically I am . This is not how they sold it to the media but I’m quite sure the government knows .

They cannot change the basic terms and conditions of your mortgage.

Rate will be as set out in your mortgage.



Start have been managing "bought" loans for a couple of years and I've seen no issues being raised by people. That suggests that they are better than ptsb in managing difficulties that arise.

CeilingFly

Turbohymac wrote: »

Very good ceilingfly. You seem well informed on start. I wonder how you would feel towards ptsb if you have been through months of trying to sort out basic issues and with a solicitor and pip also very frustrated on my side. There are many people that currently feel very angry and annoyed..thanks for advice but I Actually do have a right to rant.. most people do

I'm not saying you can't rant. I ranted about kbc for years.

But if you are asking questions on askaboutmoney, don't rant there as its more an information site to find answers and they are very strict on the style of posting.

But its good to rant on boards.

Personally I think this is good for people as you are dealing with a company that specialises in issues whereas ptsb/ulster / kbc etc did not have many staff that understand issues and they mostly followed a script.

hanaimai

Hennesm wrote: »

I have 7 months left so I suppose it all depends on what there version of up to date is . Once they say you are in arrears they can envoke whatever fees they want and they can impose a higher interest rate once I’m in arrears , which technically I am . This is not how they sold it to the media but I’m quite sure the government knows .

There's a rule that they can't charge anything extra on arrears so I wouldn't be worrying about any additional fees or the like. As CeilingFly has said, Start are not a vulture fund. They are a retail credit firm which is subject to the exact same rules and regulations as banks. They can only repossess as a last case resort and only where the borrower is not co-operating i.e. not paying, not engaging, not willing to enter a restructure etc. And even then you will be well informed that you've been classed as not co-operating and you can start co-operating at any time. The borrowers posting here all sound like they are paying and keeping to the terms of their agreement so they have nothing more to be concerned about now than they did when PTSB owned the mortgage.

CeilingFly

Sin City wrote: »

Question is what will they do for homes in negative equity

The banks were reluctant to repossess those with parties that would engage as they were not worth talking

however if smart bought the loans at a discount they wont be as accommodating

Smart will do deals. If house is in serious negative equity you could get a "walk away" deal. Companies like this have no issue doing deals on an individual basis. Banks are always reluctant as it opens the floodgates and everyone will want the deal someone else got.

Personally I think the only losers are the strategic defaulters as Smart will not pussyfoot around them like the banks do and will add more and more legal fees to their accounts.

And rightly so.

Remember, if there were not 40,000+ strategic defaulters (that's a low estimate) the banks would not have had to go down this route.

OU812

Hope those of you caught up in the tracker fraud who have been sold on, are sueing them

Earleybird

CeilingFly wrote: »

Smart will do deals. If house is in serious negative equity you could get a "walk away" deal. Companies like this have no issue doing deals on an individual basis. Banks are always reluctant as it opens the floodgates and everyone will want the deal someone else got.

Personally I think the only losers are the strategic defaulters as Smart will not pussyfoot around them like the banks do and will add more and more legal fees to their accounts.

And rightly so.

Remember, if there were not 40,000+ strategic defaulters (that's a low estimate) the banks would not have had to go down this route.

Moral hazard. That's the problem. It's easy to bash the banks but it's a sad indictment that all the talk is of people being thrown out of their houses. Why should people deserve to stay in their homes if they don't pay their mortgage!? If you rented and didn't pay for 12 months there wouldn't be the same public sympathy. I find it ridiculous. My sympathies to those genuinely struggling but the legal system is to blame here. If repossession laws were similar to those in the rest of Europe it would at least offer definitive clarity.

Hennesm

Earleybird wrote: »

Moral hazard. That's the problem. It's easy to bash the banks but it's a sad indictment that all the talk is of people being thrown out of their houses. Why should people deserve to stay in their homes if they don't pay their mortgage!? If you rented and didn't pay for 12 months there wouldn't be the same public sympathy. I find it ridiculous. My sympathies to those genuinely struggling but the legal system is to blame here. If repossession laws were similar to those in the rest of Europe it would at least offer definitive clarity.

We are paying ! I have paid them at least €200000 in mortgage payments . I have had a horriffic few months and am still paying what I can whilst looking for work again and caring for 4 children . I'm not asking for charity , just a little respect and loyalty for the years I have banked with them . My current account is with them too . It's a scary time for me and for a lot of other people it would seem . The bank has misled its customers and the general public about this sale . Bearing in mind it's partially publically owned , that's unfair

CeilingFly

Hennesm wrote: »

We are paying ! I have paid them at least €200000 in mortgage payments . I have had a horriffic few months and am still paying what I can whilst looking for work again and caring for 4 children . I'm not asking for charity , just a little respect and loyalty for the years I have banked with them . My current account is with them too . It's a scary time for me and for a lot of other people it would seem . The bank has misled its customers and the general public about this sale . Bearing in mind it's partially publically owned , that's unfair

I reckon you'll find start far better than ptsb to deal with.

Notice how there are loads of complaints about banks but few if any about the likes of start in their current guise.

Earleybird

Hennesm wrote: »

We are paying ! I have paid them at least €200000 in mortgage payments . I have had a horriffic few months and am still paying what I can whilst looking for work again and caring for 4 children . I'm not asking for charity , just a little respect and loyalty for the years I have banked with them . My current account is with them too . It's a scary time for me and for a lot of other people it would seem . The bank has misled its customers and the general public about this sale . Bearing in mind it's partially publically owned , that's unfair

You have my sympathy, and I hope you find a resolution in the near future. I don't know your circumstances nor the banks and their dealing with you. But you mention loyalty, charity and publically owned. Are you suggesting that grace should be given to everyone that asks for it and has a current account for a few years, and sure what odds it's the public that ponied up? That's just wrong. I've been paying a mortgage for years, at rates it could be argued are too high relative to European peers. The reason for this is because I'm underwriting non-payers. Why should I keep paying if there is "loyalty" to be shown?

Hennesm

Earleybird wrote: »

You have my sympathy, and I hope you find a resolution in the near future. I don't know your circumstances nor the banks and their dealing with you. But you mention loyalty, charity and publically owned. Are you suggesting that grace should be given to everyone that asks for it and has a current account for a few years, and sure what odds it's the public that ponied up? That's just wrong. I've been paying a mortgage for years, at rates it could be argued are too high relative to European peers. The reason for this is because I'm underwriting non-payers. Why should I keep paying if there is "loyalty" to be shown?

As I said I don't want charity but a warning would've been nice, I had a branch meeting last week . An explanation as to why my €2900 remaining mortgage is being dumped after I have paid it in full and on time for over 191/2 years and yes some loyalty to me as a customer . That's not too much to ask for after all the fees I have paid as a customer over the years . Let me be clear I am not asking for a write off I am asking my lender to deal with me as a person and take into account the unnecessary stress they cause .

If you are paying a higher rate it's not necessarily because of non payers and more than likely because of the banks greed? As has been the cause of the whole bond holders and austerity fiasco . The European central lending rate is at an all time low . They can afford to give better rates but don't . They write off business loans, restructure buy to let's and then blame Europe for everything .
So that what we get now is a nation of people who no longer have any empathy and look to justify sharp practice as it may lead to a lower mortgage rate in 18 months ???

CeilingFly

Hennesm wrote: »

As I said I don't want charity but a warning would've been nice, I had a branch meeting last week . An explanation as to why my €2900 remaining mortgage is being dumped after I have paid it in full and on time for over 191/2 years and yes some loyalty to me as a customer . That's not too much to ask for after all the fees I have paid as a customer over the years . Let me be clear I am not asking for a write off I am asking my lender to deal with me as a person and take into account the unnecessary stress they cause .

If you are paying a higher rate it's not necessarily because of non payers and more than likely because of the banks greed? As has been the cause of the whole bond holders and austerity fiasco . The European central lending rate is at an all time low . They can afford to give better rates but don't ?

If you only have €2900 balance, then there is zilch to be concerned about. Start are actually quite reputable and only take issue with people who don't engage.

They will 100% abide by any agreement you have and if you need a new agreement, they will do one.

Where they differ is in those who refuse to engage and act quickly to conclude such loans. Whereas the banks took years to act.


As for non payers being the reason for high rates - its the primary reason two banks looked at the Irish market and walked away.

A recent repossession case in Dublin 6 had legal costs of over €200,000, debt of €900,000, house value €700,000. No payments for 6 years. Guess who pays the €400,000 shortfall? Yep, all the other customers of that bank.

And the bailout story doesn't wash - this has mostly been paid back with interest. Except for anglo and Irish nationwide. And remember, the bailout allowed the banks deal with arrears properly. Without the bailout a hell of a lot of mortgages would be with vulture funds a long time ago.

But with a minuscule balance and an agreement, you have absolutely nothing to be concerned about.

Btw, its quite normal for banks to sell books of mortgage debt. But usually the bank still manages it and you don't see any difference. My mortgage is with kbc, but its owned by a German pension fund who purchased the Phoenix 2 loan book when kbc offered it for sale.

Does it concern me? Not in the least as they have to abide by Central bank regulations. And they are very consumer friendly

smelly sock

Earleybird wrote: »

You have my sympathy, and I hope you find a resolution in the near future. I don't know your circumstances nor the banks and their dealing with you. But you mention loyalty, charity and publically owned. Are you suggesting that grace should be given to everyone that asks for it and has a current account for a few years, and sure what odds it's the public that ponied up? That's just wrong. I've been paying a mortgage for years, at rates it could be argued are too high relative to European peers. The reason for this is because I'm underwriting non-payers. Why should I keep paying if there is "loyalty" to be shown?

So you believe that interest rates will fall now that these loans have been sold off?

CeilingFly

smelly sock wrote: »

So you believe that interest rates will fall now that these loans have been sold off?

Explain how the two banks (ptsb & BOI) with the biggest strategic defaulter and arrears problems have the highest standard variable rates for current customers whereas the bank with the lowest problem loans (AIB) have the best rates for current variable rate customers

Earleybird

smelly sock wrote: »

So you believe that interest rates will fall now that these loans have been sold off?

Interest rates across all Irish banks have been reducing for a while now, and a higher percentage of performing loans on a balance sheet certainly allows more flexibility. That doesn't necessarily mean they will continue to fall though. While repossession laws continue to heavily favour the house owner it will be near on impossible for the banks here to continue reductions without running long term risk. The maths just doesn't work. Hence why there are no new entrants to be seen.

The obsession in this country with owning property to create wealth inevitably means that people overextend and/or get too greedy when credit is available but what we've seen is that they're unwilling to shoulder the cost in the event of a downturn. As previously said in this thread the cost of non performance from one is burdoned on those that continue to pay.

As an aside, I think the Central Bank rules limiting the level of income and LTV provides decent protection to another meltdown when house prices do start declining.

Hitman3000

Part of the bundle sold by PTSB were 1050 performing loans. Goes against the narrative that it's only deflauters and those that won't engage. RTE news if anyone wants to check.

Scanners2

CeilingFly wrote: »

Explain how the two banks (ptsb & BOI) with the biggest strategic defaulter and arrears problems have the highest standard variable rates for current customers whereas the bank with the lowest problem loans (AIB) have the best rates for current variable rate customers

Aib were more innovative with restructure resolutions and managed to get their split mortgages with no arrears classed as performing loans. They have actively engaged with third party non profit organisations to help people go from mortgage to rent allowing them to stay in their homes and committed to providing the finance for this scheme. Aib are working smarter. Aib seem to be working with customers. It's the whole carrot and stick argument.

smelly sock

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Part of the bundle sold by PTSB were 1050 performing loans. Goes against the narrative that it's only deflauters and those that won't engage. RTE news if anyone wants to check.

Can they sell on a loan if the customer is sticking to the terms of the contract?

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Hitman3000 wrote: »

Part of the bundle sold by PTSB were 1050 performing loans. Goes against the narrative that it's only deflauters and those that won't engage. RTE news if anyone wants to check.

These pdh's prob have btl's as well so the whole lot has to be sold. I stand to be corrected on this.