Issue with tv

UKLad

Hi- looking for advice, I bought an LG OLED TV March 2017 from Harvey Norman and it has developed a light band through the middle of the screen when viewing programmes. Am I within my rights to request a repair or replacement? Harvey Norman state on their website their is a standard 1 year warranty but I have heard that the sales of goods act and eu law protects me? Anyone had any experience with Harvey Norman and how they treat these issues? I have proof of purchase.

XsApollo

I can’t imagine any electrical good in ireland has a 1 year warranty now?
Should be 2 years no quibble, after that then you will be going the sales of goods act which is simple enough but a bit of work.
Best go in there first off and see what they say, which is what you will have to do anyway.
I can’t imagine they would refuse or cause a fuss with a tv of that quality.
If they don’t play ball when you go in, start logging what you have done , and follow the guide online with regards going to smalll claims court , do not contact the manufacturer if they tell you to, that is up to them.

CeilingFly

Whilst the contract is with the store, they mau advise that it would be quicker to get the issue fixed by contacting the lg service agents directly.

This does not affect any rights you have, but it does expediate things.

theteal

OP, any warranty (fairly meaningless imo) is in addition to your consumer rights. A warranty can help you get items repaired/replaced more quickly/easily but it's not what you need to rely on in this instance. Your contract of sale is with the retailer. That's who you go to for recourse. Under the sale of goods act an item must be fit for purpose and last a "reasonable" amount of time under normal use. An LG OLED TV costs about €1500 (possibly a low estimate). It is very much not reasonable for a €1500 TV to develop a fault after 16 months of normal usage - this is my opinion and I'm 100% positive that a SCC judge would corroborate.

If the shop don't sort you out you'll have to send a registered letter to their HQ - we can help if it gets to that stage.

UKLad

Thanks - quick update the repairman called me today and is awaiting to see if LG will provide a fix he doesn't hold much hope due to the cost etc. I am going to call Harvey Norman tomorrow to see if they can provide a resolution or what my options are if LG say they will not fix. I presume they will try and wriggle out of it first quoting out of warranty but i know now i am protected. Will update on my resolution once known.

Thanks all

splinter65

UKLad wrote: »

Thanks - quick update the repairman called me today and is awaiting to see if LG will provide a fix he doesn't hold much hope due to the cost etc. I am going to call Harvey Norman tomorrow to see if they can provide a resolution or what my options are if LG say they will not fix. I presume they will try and wriggle out of it first quoting out of warranty but i know now i am protected. Will update on my resolution once known.

Thanks all

You don’t care what LG say to HN because that’s not any of your business. You simply want to know if HN are going to refund repair or replace your TV and you want to know by tomorrow evening.
It’s very simple.

Xterminator

Hi spinter.

store are entitled to send the TV off to make sure its a manufacturing fault and not damaged caused by improper use. Its reasonable for them to check.

So no they don't have to offer a remedy by tomorrow evening. IMO if OP went in & and made demands like that it would be unhelpful to OPs case.

OP you asked are you entitled to a repair, or replacement/ refund. Actually its one of the 3rs, as splinter said above, repair replace, refund, that they should offer you.

CeilingFly

splinter65 wrote: »

You don’t care what LG say to HN because that’s not any of your business. You simply want to know if HN are going to refund repair or replace your TV and you want to know by tomorrow evening.
It’s very simple.

And that attitude will get you absolutely nowhere - demanding a response by a certain time will get you a eff off response from most retail staff. Probably not in your face, but certainly under their breath and then watch as they draw it out as loooonnnnngggg as possible and give you the most basic response as required by law.


Then watch as the pleasant polite and mannerly customer with a similar issue gets treated with the same respect, manners and politeness as they showed the staff. (as a recent post here about two different customer with similar issues in Power City experienced - one had issue rectified the next day, the other had to wait over a week)


Being pleasant and respectful costs nothing and usually gets the best response.

So to the OP, ignore any person that advises you to give ultimatums or deadlines. It will NEVER EVER work in your favour.

ps. i'm in retail over 30 years and such scenarios are regularly brought up at conferences and its a similar response from everyone. The bully customer can wait and will only get the bare minimum as the store does not want their custom again

5rtytry56

CeilingFly wrote: »

ps. i'm in retail over 30 years and such scenarios are regularly brought up at conferences and its a similar response from everyone. The bully customer can wait and will only get the bare minimum as the store does not want their custom again

This is the important point.


I worked in callcentre for a computer company in Dublin, and another company which sold printers.

This was the attitude in both organisations to customers as described above.

UKLad

Thanks - i would never be aggressive as i a manage a contact centre funny enough in customer care. Harvey Norman called me back Friday and they have received the report from the tv repair guy. They are analysing the report and will resolve early next week. I have asked for a store credit of the equivalent cost i paid for the tv and the agent couldn't authorise that at that time. Normal process i expect. She mentioned that I was outside of warranty however i talked about the sales of goods act superceding that and she seemed to entertain that at least as they are reviewing the report and trying to resolve.

Will update how this is resolved i presume on Tuesday with the bank holiday tomorrow.

theteal

Any movement on this one, OP?

UKLad

Apologies - they have called me a couple of times to say that they working with LG to try and get it repaired. The tv itself cost over 2k and the repair job is nearly 1k so I doubt I will get a store credit which is what I originally asked for. They have promised to get it resolved by the end of the week. I presume they are trying to get LG to replace first before commiting to fixing themselves as they don’t wanted to pay that out if they don’t have to. Given I first reported the issue on the 31st July what is considered a reasonable amount of time to resolve my case?

theteal

UKLad wrote: »

Apologies - they have called me a couple of times to say that they working with LG to try and get it repaired. The tv itself cost over 2k and the repair job is nearly 1k so I doubt I will get a store credit which is what I originally asked for. They have promised to get it resolved by the end of the week. I presume they are trying to get LG to replace first before commiting to fixing themselves as they don’t wanted to pay that out if they don’t have to. Given I first reported the issue on the 31st July what is considered a reasonable amount of time to resolve my case?

I'd give them 10 working days from the day of escalation. It basically to show that you're being reasonable if it does go to SCC - although if you start SCC proceedings you are going to be waiting how ever many weeks so I'd give them until the end of the week to have it resolved; actually resolved, not just a decision made by that date.

slave1

I would not ask for store credit, repair/replace/refund
Then shop in the likes of Richer Sounds that offer 6year warranty on TVs

Xterminator

(For me) The warranty offered by the store is the smallest consideration when deciding where to purchase. thats because no matter what the warranty your consumer rights are usually stronger than the limited warranty that usually doesn't cover labour costs.

in this case because you bought your TV from a local bricks and mortar store, you have the advantage of enforcing irish consumer law, SCC etc. If you distance buy, that's not always the case, and with UK leaving EU - your rights in the future are murky.

I've bought stuff off richer sounds when they had a store in dublin, and checked their prices a few times since, they are good guys, but IMO you have stronger consumer rights with a store, in this case harvey normans (with a 1 year warranty), that you do with a unit from richer sounds in belfast with a 6 year warranty.

Masala

And stick with Panasonic next time.... I got a 5-yr warranty on my set!!

theteal

Masala wrote: »

And stick with Panasonic next time.... I got a 5-yr warranty on my set!!

You can't have blanket faith in any manufacturer anymore. They all make different products of varying levels of quality.

L1011

Panasonic TVs are not always Panasonic, a lot of them are Vestel. In that case you may as well buy the Walker or Nordmende which is the same TV but quite a lot less.

TVs more than any other dear electrical appliance play off brand name reputations of the past.

If a TV has "assembled in Turkey" on it, its a Vestel (although they have factories elsewhere). Slovakia and its UMC (Sharp own UMC but are a shell of what they were). Ignore the brand name on the front basically.

https://www.avforums.com/threads/how-to-tell-if-your-tvs-a-vestel.2019864/ also gives some tips on how to tell if a TV is a Vestel rather than the brand on the front.

893bet

Suggest richersounds. 6 year warranty with most TVs.

STB.

Masala wrote: »

And stick with Panasonic next time.... I got a 5-yr warranty on my set!!

Panachronic. They released TVs a few years back that would not tune in saorview hd channels as the full set of dvb descriptors was not defined in their firmware. They implemented their own incomplete version.

They didn't want to know about fixing it.

As the previous poster pointed out they are rebadged vestels these days.

tedpan

STB. wrote:

As the previous poster pointed out they are rebadged vestels these days.

Only the cheaper units. I have a 55" from 2013, a proper Panasonic which is still fantastic 5 years later. I suppose you get what you pay for..

UKLad

Received another "update" to say they are waiting for a response from LG on whether they will repair as out of warranty. I have replied to say that given i raised the issue on the 31st july that if it is not resolved with a refund or store credit within the next 5 working days that i seek small claims. I believe i am covered under small claims and they have been pestering and diverting for to long now I have been polite, calm and allowed too long for it to be resolved. From my point of view it has nothing to with LG as i bought from Harvey Norman and I should be entitled to a refund or replacement or repair its my choice and i don't want a repair now as they have been awful to deal with.

Masala

tedpan wrote: »

Only the cheaper units. I have a 55" from 2013, a proper Panasonic which is still fantastic 5 years later. I suppose you get what you pay for..

Same here.... my Plasma (yes.... a Plasma!!) still going strong now for over 6+ yrs. great picture

XsApollo

UKLad wrote: »

Received another "update" to say they are waiting for a response from LG on whether they will repair as out of warranty. I have replied to say that given i raised the issue on the 31st july that if it is not resolved with a refund or store credit within the next 5 working days that i seek small claims. I believe i am covered under small claims and they have been pestering and diverting for to long now I have been polite, calm and allowed too long for it to be resolved. From my point of view it has nothing to with LG as i bought from Harvey Norman and I should be entitled to a refund or replacement or repair its my choice and i don't want a repair now as they have been awful to deal with.

Did you contact LG or did they contact LG themselves?
Just follow the guidelines on the SCC website and be done with them.
Also it’s not your choice to pick which option you are given.
As long as you are given one.

STB.

tedpan wrote: »

Only the cheaper units. I have a 55" from 2013, a proper Panasonic which is still fantastic 5 years later. I suppose you get what you pay for..

Nope.

Panasonic stopped making their own panels a few years back. They were made in Himeji. Lg are their main panel source now. Sharp are the only panel manufacturer left in Japan.

Their PCBs were assembled previously by UMC in Slovakia. But that was pulled too in 2016. Don't know where it went. Presumably Czech republic, Hungary or Turkey. I think Orion are still going in Hungary.

The production plant in shandong in china was also closed down a few years back. As far as I am aware they only design TVs these days and hand over production. They had the Sanyo brand as well but that's just licensed these days to Funai.
I have read that the vestels were identified by the presence of two zeros in the model name. Not sure that's still the case. And their model numbers have limited info.

UKLad

The TV repairman suggested I contact LG - I did and they said the same out of warranty- that they couldn't do anything. My problem is not with LG but with Harvey Norman as I bought from them. They have given no suggestion that they would pay for a repair and to be honest their service on this has been appalling.

STB.

UKLad wrote: »

The TV repairman suggested I contact LG - I did and they said the same out of warranty- that they couldn't do anything. My problem is not with LG but with Harvey Norman as I bought from them. They have given no suggestion that they would pay for a repair and to be honest their service on this has been appalling.

There is a 2 year guarantee on all goods in EU. Look it up.


Guarantees and returns
Under EU rules, a trader must repair, replace, reduce the price or give you a refund if goods you bought turn out to be faulty or do not look or work as advertised.

If you bought a good or a service online or outside of a shop (by telephone, mail order, from a door-to-door salesperson), you also have the right to cancel and return your order within 14 days, for any reason and with no justification.

Find out specific conditions to invoke guarantees and withdraw from purchases:

Guarantees for faulty goods

Free of charge, 2-year guarantee (legal guarantee) for all goods

Under EU rules you always have the right to a minimum 2-year guarantee at no cost, regardless of whether you bought your goods online, in a shop or by mail order.

This 2-year guarantee is your minimum right. National rules in your country may give you extra protection: however, any deviation from EU rules must always be in the consumer's best interest.

If goods you bought anywhere in the EU turn out to be faulty or do not look or work as advertised, the seller must repair or replace them free of charge or give you a price reduction or a full refund.

dudara

@STB. - The EU 2 year warranty does not apply in Ireland as that directive was not enacted here. Our consumer legislation was deemed to be stronger.

@UKLad - it seems that this has been dragging on a while now. I’d be considering a formal registered letter to the store and HQ stating that you giving them XX days to resolve, or else you are proceeding to the Small Claims Court. If no response, then start a SCC case.

STB.

dudara wrote: »

@STB. - The EU 2 year warranty does not apply in Ireland as that directive was not enacted here. Our consumer legislation was deemed to be stronger.

@UKLad - it seems that this has been dragging on a while now. I’d be considering a formal registered letter to the store and HQ stating that you giving them XX days to resolve, or else you are proceeding to the Small Claims Court. If no response, then start a SCC case.

It does dudara. EU consumer rights are in addition to warranties. They are not optiional. Our 1980 act is strong in that it gives 6 years for certain faults to be remidied. However in this case even the eu statutory rights of the consumer have been breached. The behaviour of some retailers by is why press releases like the one below are constantly issued. It shouldn't be allowed get that far if retailers do what they are supposed to do and help and support the consumer.

https://www.eccireland.ie/guarantees-warranties-statutory-rights-faulty-goods/

In this case it's not a hairdryer we are talking about it's a 2 grand OLED. I know how long this inherant developed fault would take to decide in the small claims court. About 5 seconds. It would be a reasonable assumption that the item would last given its price tag. On term of high end TVs 5 years is a reasonable expectation for durability and operability. This fault has occured within 2.

OP Google the model. I'm sure it's not a once off issue. Then off to the small claims court.

L1011

It doesn't. The legislation was never trancribed to Irish law. You are misinformed

STB.

L1011 wrote: »

It doesn't. The legislation was never trancribed to Irish law. You are misinformed

I believe you are misinfomed.

Directive 1999/44/EC was transcribed through SI 11/2003.

Statutory Instrument. No. 11/2003 - European Communities (Certain Aspects of the Sale of Consumer Goods and Associated Guarantees) Regulations 2003

L1011

Not the 2 year part.

I was being polite in saying you're wrong. I'm not going to bother now.

You're wrong, and not helping the OP in the process

dudara

The 2 year component was not converted to Irish law as our consumer protection is deemed stronger. Notice the phrase "Certain Aspects" in the SI title you quote above.

An EU Regulation must be converted to national law (e.g. the GDPR and the 2018 Data Protection Act), but Directives are a little more loose and countries have options on how they adopt them

0ph0rce0

I bought a macbook from Harvey Norman a while back and after the warranty was up the screen packed in.

Brought it back to them as Apple said it's HN's problem., They looked at it, saw the screen was knackered and had it sorted in a few days. No charge, no repair fee..

They said it was out of warranty but I/They were covered under the 2 or 6 year EU Guarantee (can't remember which one), Would this not apply in this instance? as you'd expect a TV to last for more than a year.

whiterebel

STB. wrote: »

I believe you are misinfomed.

Directive 1999/44/EC was transcribed through SI 11/2003.

Statutory Instrument. No. 11/2003 - European Communities (Certain Aspects of the Sale of Consumer Goods and Associated Guarantees) Regulations 2003

No, you are mis-informed. the 2 years was never brought in, as we deemed the SoGA to provide better protection. Even Apple acknowledge the SoGA on their support page for Ireland rather than the 2 year warranty.

dudara

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

They said it was out of warranty but I/They were covered under the 2 or 6 year EU Guarantee (can't remember which one), Would this not apply in this instance? as you'd expect a TV to last for more than a year.

Leave warranties out of the discussion for now. All that legally matter are your consumer rights. Under Irish consumer law, you are entitled to expect a product to last a reasonable lifetime, given no excessive wear & tear. This allows some interpretation, e.g. high end goods could be expected to last longer than cheaper versions. For a decent TV, I would be of the opinion that at least 5 years is reasonable.

However, if you’ve had a TV for say 3 years before it packs in, you have to acknowledge the fact that you’ve had use of the TV for three years. So assuming a 5 year life span, that means you can reasonably expect to get a refund or replacement to the value of 40%. There’s no hard and fast rules on this but more about applying a reasonable interpretation.

STB.

whiterebel wrote: »

No, you are mis-informed. the 2 years was never brought in, as we deemed the SoGA to provide better protection. Even Apple acknowledge the SoGA on their support page for Ireland rather than the 2 year warranty.

Actually the problem is that there are Two sets of regulations in relation to consumer rights and protection. One is the EU regs and the SOGA from 1980 which has been amended a zillion times by other acts and statutory instruments over the years. It's such a problem to follow that the Gov attempted to consolidate all 3 years ago in the Consumer Rights Bill. The draft scheme was actually published but put on hold as the EU were publishing directives in relation to digital content and online contracts.

Regardless under European Directive 1999/44/EC, every country in the EU must ensure a retailer is liable for “non-conformities” which happen within two years of purchase. The Sale of Goods Act gives you even more power and covers goods for up to six years depending on what it is. A 2 grand TV carries reasonable durability expectation.

The ECC Ireland published a detailed note for retailers in April such was the confusion over warranties internal shop policies and statutory consumer rights.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/faulty-goods-know-your-rights-if-things-go-wrong-1.3450322

L1011

We satisfy that directive with the SOG&SOS Act, though. That is the entire point. The "EU two year warranty" does not exist here and the EU directive is not what you use to get your consumer rights via the courts.

STB.

L1011 wrote: »

We satisfy that directive with the SOG&SOS Act, though. That is the entire point. The "EU two year warranty" does not exist here and the EU directive is not what you use to get your consumer rights via the courts.

Just to clarify. You said that the EU legislation on sale of goods and associated guarantees was never transposed into Irish law. It was and I quoted you the relevant SI earlier. Then you said that the two year part wasn't. I never said it was. The reason is outlined below.

Also Not once did I mention the word warranty. Or the words the "EU two year warranty". "Guarantee" is the word I used.

Now just to get back to this argument that you have created claiming the directive was not transposed. It was. I cited it earlier. What you are talking about is the harmonisation with the minimum standards that the directive set.

The Irish legislators at the time kept the existing levels of consumer protection for the sale of goods and guarantees because they were greater than those suggested in the directive. This was an option during transposition. The UK did likwise. To say that the directive was not transposed is incorrect.

Furthermore Ireland has transposed both 1999/44/EC (sale of goods and associated guarantees) and also 2011/83/EC (consumer rights national implementation) as of 13/6/2014.

A full summary of all members states conformity is attached and the nuances that exist.

On page 4 it summarises the implementation of the legal guarantee per member state under those directives for faulty goods.

Now tell me where I was "misinformed".

L1011

You said there is a 2 year guarantee. There isn't. You are wrong.

I said the 2 year legislation wasn't transposed after you repeatedly insisted it was. It isn't. You were wrong.

This is off topic and of zero help to the OP. Do not post about it again

STB.

L1011 wrote: »

You said there is a 2 year guarantee. There isn't. You are wrong.

I said the 2 year legislation wasn't transposed after you repeatedly insisted it was. It isn't. You were wrong.

This is off topic and of zero help to the OP. Do not post about it again

So you accept now I was talking about Guarantees in the context of consumer rights.

The transposition of the directive on the sale of goods was satisfied. You are shutting me down because you still refuse to accept you are wrong.

The only difference is that Ireland did not implement the minimum period of 2 years because we already had 6 years since 1980. If you'd bothered to read the ECC summary sheet you would have seen that

This is helpful to the OP and not the first time nor the last that I have posted in the consumer issues forum. I don't come hear to settle fights with mods despite what you type in bold.

UKLad

Thanks everyone for the advice, I have given Harvey Norman until today to resolve before it goes Small Claims. They keep insisting they are trying to help and they are waiting for LG to resolve. Given i brought this up originally on the 31st July I have given more than enough time to resolve. I hope I am given some sort of store credit as I am concerned that if it was repaired that I may encounter the same issue again. How far can i push this as the sales of goods act doesn't specify other than their are options. how would small claims view if i did not want a repair? instead wanted a replacement to the value of the tv or a store credit?

.G.

You don't get to decide what recourse you are given as long as HV offer you one of the three R's they've fulfilled their obligations. If they keep saying they are waiting for LG you'll just have to wait for the SCC to make a determination and force them down whatever path the court decides.

When I went to SCC myself I was given a partial refund as I had use of my item for a period of time before it went bang. This is most likely what you'll get. It won't be the full cost of the TV as you got over a year out of it before it went.

UKLad

Harvey Norman got back to me tonight saying LG will get back to them now on Tuesday of next week as its a bank holiday. I've told them i will contact small claims and feel it has taken to long. I asked them to clarify why they are involving LG. According to them as its out of warranty there is a different process to getting it repaired? In my opinion this should have been resolved a lot earlier. Surely its just a case of ordering the parts to get it fixed, I put it to them that they are trying to get LG to pay for the repair but they deny this.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

UKLad wrote: »

Harvey Norman got back to me tonight saying LG will get back to them now on Tuesday of next week as its a bank holiday. I've told them i will contact small claims and feel it has taken to long. I asked them to clarify why they are involving LG. According to them as its out of warranty there is a different process to getting it repaired? In my opinion this should have been resolved a lot earlier. Surely its just a case of ordering the parts to get it fixed, I put it to them that they are trying to get LG to pay for the repair but they deny this.

You stick with HN needing to sort you out. Any decision from LG is between LG and HV and has no bearing on your issue or need for recompense.

theteal

OK, too much messing about at this stage. Anymore contact with HN needs to be in written form so you have documented your efforts for the SCC. You do not give two flying schits about what HN need from LG, your issue needs to be resolved by HN and you're very correct to be sticking to this point. I'd normally advise that you send a registered letter to HN HQ detailing the issues before starting the SCC claim but as they've messed you about for so long already it feels like it's more of a time waste - maybe send the letter as well as start SCC claim tomorrow.

Also any confidence in HN is completely gone at this stage so I would be requesting a refund in the SCC claim - you may not get it but I would regard it as a reasonable request.

UKLad

Very happy today as Harvey Norman have agreed to a store credit to the value of what i paid originally. Am now the owner of the latest LG OLED the C8 which they also gave me a discount on. They are going to pick up the faulty tv also. Manager called me today to advise which i didn't expect as i thought i may have to go small claims. What may have helped is i requested a data access request under GDPR for any information held about my complaint.

Hoping this helps others who may be in the same situation.

theteal

UKLad wrote: »

Very happy today as Harvey Norman have agreed to a store credit to the value of what i paid originally. Am now the owner of the latest LG OLED the C8 which they also gave me a discount on. They are going to pick up the faulty tv also. Manager called me today to advise which i didn't expect as i thought i may have to go small claims. What may have helped is i requested a data access request under GDPR for any information held about my complaint.

Hoping this helps others who may be in the same situation.

I’m a smidge embarrassed to say that I do get a little warm fuzzy feeling when someone succeeds in exercising their consumer rights in the face of this warranty bolloxology. Fair play OP







P.S. not actually embarrassed in the slightest

tedpan

UKLad wrote:

Very happy today as Harvey Norman have agreed to a store credit to the value of what i paid originally. Am now the owner of the latest LG OLED the C8 which they also gave me a discount on. They are going to pick up the faulty tv also. Manager called me today to advise which i didn't expect as i thought i may have to go small claims. What may have helped is i requested a data access request under GDPR for any information held about my complaint.

Nice, what size did you get? It's a beautiful TV

UKLad

tedpan wrote: »

Nice, what size did you get? It's a beautiful TV

55” had the B6 which had the issue with the banding and went for the C8. Delivery on Saturday!

dudara

Delighted you got it sorted and that you’re happy!

For future reference, you do not have to accept store credit if it is offered. You are entitled to an actual refund. However, store credit can suit a lot of people and they’re happy to take it. The main thing is that you’re aware.