Lambs losing condition

thelegend1979

Weaned lambs three weeks ago. One batch on home farm were dosed with tramazole and put into good aftergrass that got a compound fertiliser. Same lambs got plenty of cobalt and cydectin early in year. i could nearly see the condition falling off them in last few days and confirmed when i put them through race today and gave them a booster dose. Not dirty behind but wool gone very white and look to be a bit drawn in at sides. Other two batchs of lambs got exact same doses and thriving. Any ideas what it could be???

razor8

Possible resistance. You need to fec sample and depending on results you may need to do a drench test

thelegend1979

Thanks for reply. Think that could be it

thelegend1979

Vet thought it was a mineral deficiency even tho ive given them cobalt twice in 6 weeks. Got a B12 and a copper injection and they look a bit better already.

wrangler

thelegend1979 wrote: »

Vet thought it was a mineral deficiency even tho ive given them cobalt twice in 6 weeks. Got a B12 and a copper injection and they look a bit better already.

Cobalt drench only lasts in the system for 2 - 3 weeks, boluses are a bit better,
What did you use

thelegend1979

Drench. Will def be goin the bolus route in future. Land must be cobalt deficient.Lambs on home farm were behind the others last year aswell but they were moved into rape on rented land in early september and took off but the problem hasnt gone away!!! Was looking for flakey skin around ears but all smooth so thought drench was enough.

charolais0153

thelegend1979 wrote: »

Drench. Will def be goin the bolus route in future. Land must be cobalt deficient.Lambs on home farm were behind the others last year aswell but they were moved into rape on rented land in early september and took off but the problem hasnt gone away!!! Was looking for flakey skin around ears but all smooth so thought drench was enough.

Tbh. Find a hape of boluses in the field just walking around. Drenching is far more effective in my opinion

wrangler

charolais0153 wrote: »

Tbh. Find a hape of boluses in the field just walking around. Drenching is far more effective in my opinion

A lot are saying that, dosing every fortnight is a pain though. never found any animax boluses thrown up in the fields, but some farms need more Cobalt than Animax is giving the lambs.
We've done a few trials on weights here and giving two boluses without any improvement with the second bolus so they're obviously getting enough in the one bolus here.
Mixing your own drench with cobalt sulphate is cheap as chips anyway

charolais0153

wrangler wrote: »

A lot are saying that, dosing every fortnight is a pain though. never found any animax boluses thrown up in the fields, but some farms need more Cobalt than Animax is giving the lambs.
We've done a few trials on weights here and giving two boluses without any improvement with the second bolus so they're obviously getting enough in the one bolus here.
Mixing your own drench with cobalt sulphate is cheap as chips anyway

B12 is a bit of a cod if your giving cobalt regularly if im thinking correctly

wrangler

charolais0153 wrote: »

B12 is a bit of a cod if your giving cobalt regularly if im thinking correctly

Id agree, but who's giving it regularly, but I do think the drench is better, the best kick we get outa cobalt is the first dose where we mix it with the worm dose, we also give it with the second dose and give the bolus that time as well.
Aneighbour give it at four weeks along with the coccidiosis dose and he has over a third of his lambs gone, grass only....makes ya wonder

Lambman

Have you till buy a gun for the animax bolus wrangler I have the mayo Healthcare one here... trialed them on it last year the lambs being drenched every 3 weeks were ahead off the ones that got the bolus so didn't bother the bolus this year.

wrangler

Lambman wrote: »

Have you till buy a gun for the animax bolus wrangler I have the mayo Healthcare one here... trialed them on it last year the lambs being drenched every 3 weeks were ahead off the ones that got the bolus so didn't bother the bolus this year.

Never had to buy a gun because we used to buy over 1300 boluses, but I wouldn't think the mayo one will do, these are big boluses.
The new animax are releasing more cobalt per day than last years one, I think Razor 8 was using extra cobalt with a bolus, can't remember what bolus he was using, Beginning to wonder here are boluses working either. Lambs can't store cobalt, that's all i'm sure of at the moment

Lambman

1300 to bad they couldn't throw u a gun I only bought 100 last year at €110 and gun I think from memory was €40... buy a lot off cobalt for that... I know the handling them is a pain when there still on the ewes but at least with drenching u no what there getting... is the animax bolus expensive and what bulk do they come in?

razor8

wrangler wrote: »

Never had to buy a gun because we used to buy over 1300 boluses, but I wouldn't think the mayo one will do, these are big boluses.
The new animax are releasing more cobalt per day than last years one, I think Razor 8 was using extra cobalt with a bolus, can't remember what bolus he was using, Beginning to wonder here are boluses working either. Lambs can't store cobalt, that's all i'm sure of at the moment

I gave my lambs cosecure lamb Bolus with copper around mid may as a last try as read good reports. Its expensive at nearly €1 a piece but lambs are pretty clean. I’m still drenching with cheap cobalt every time I’ve them in

Lambs we’re behind this year due to poor spring then lack of grass. Started heavy ram lambs on ad lib 2 weeks ago and there absolutely powering on. Lambs averaged 480g a day with a few putting on a kg a day. Some compensatory growth

Green farmer

Use cheap drench here. Works fine but labour intensive. The cobalt powder would be cheaper but is highly carcinogenic , so I’m happy to let some factory mix it and pay the bit extra for the drench.

Siamsa Sessions

Last 12 lambs here not losing condition but not making great progress either. That and the fact that grass is still scare is making me think of putting them into the shed to try finish them on meal and roughage/fibre (which I think they need to prevent acidosis?)

They’re averaging 38kg and have been getting 200g meal outside on poor enough grass. They’re nice Charollais-X lambs with plenty shape.

On the other hand, they’d make maybe €80-85 as stores next week so I’m tempted to go that route too and be rid of them.

Any opinions either way?

Lambman

If your tight for grass I'd get rid not be long till you need grass for ewes going till the ram. Wouldn't be fond off housing this time a year and a change in diet could leave you with dirty lambs that'll cost you in the factory.

farming93

I'm sending lambs to the factory , genuinely without a spec of dirt and they're still charging me for clipping . Can't win .

wrangler

farming93 wrote: »

I'm sending lambs to the factory , genuinely without a spec of dirt and they're still charging me for clipping . Can't win .

Every thing is clipped now, it's only along the belly, we're not charged for lambs and 20c for ewes.
If they're dirty they're sent home

Siamsa Sessions

Lambman wrote: »

If your tight for grass I'd get rid not be long till you need grass for ewes going till the ram. Wouldn't be fond off housing this time a year and a change in diet could leave you with dirty lambs that'll cost you in the factory.

That’s the side I’m leaning towards alright. Too much to go wrong putting them in and a drop in price might leave little more than an extra tenner

Green farmer

Problem with factories now is they’ve no shearers available, as their all gone off shearing flocks. It was fine off season, just let the factory know some might need clipping and they’d be someone there to tidy up the lambs for €1.20 each, but those lads won’t be available until sept/ oct onwards now.

wrangler

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

That’s the side I’m leaning towards alright. Too much to go wrong putting them in and a drop in price might leave little more than an extra tenner

Store trade is still volatile, be interesting to see how they go in the mart.

thelegend1979

40.5kg nicely fleshed char cross lambs in mountbellew yesterday. 92 euro.

Siamsa Sessions

thelegend1979 wrote: »

40.5kg nicely fleshed char cross lambs in mountbellew yesterday. 92 euro.

That’s a increase on the last few weeks anyway - nearly 2.30/kg.

I’ll probably ring New Ross (our nearest mart) during the week and see how they’re going

wrangler

New Zealand have developed a B12 injection now instead of cobalt, cobalt stimulates the production of B12 in the rumen and b12 injection bypasses the need for that. B12 lasts up to 6weeks and can be injected at a young age.
English farmers are giving it the thumbs up too

https://nz.virbac.com/smartshot

It costs £1/ml and half a ml at four weeks covers a lamb for four months fo B12 and selenium.
I didn't think it was passed by the EU but was surprised to see on the English Farming forum that they're using it.
Wouldn't be the first time England ignored the EU

razor8

Spoke to my vet on this last year & said they was no support at all to get it in I assume from medical council

Just wonder who has to approve these products and can the mineral drench & Bolus companies lobby against it

wrangler

razor8 wrote: »

Spoke to my vet on this last year & said they was no support at all to get it in I assume from medical council

Just wonder who has to approve these products and can the mineral drench & Bolus companies lobby against it

As you know OH has a science degree. she says it's harder to get an injectable licensed for unskilled operators...easier to accidentally inject yourself than accidentally dose yourself apparently....don't know what overdosing with B12 does :rolleyes:

You#'re probably reading TFF about it too....interesting

razor8

Rather dose myself with b12 than trodax!

Would be a serious labour saving. We should start a campaign to get it in

Has @greysides any info on this

Lambman

Half a ml is tiny... do u have till inject it straight into a vein?

ganmo

razor8 wrote: »

Spoke to my vet on this last year & said they was no support at all to get it in I assume from medical council

Just wonder who has to approve these products and can the mineral drench & Bolus companies lobby against it

the problem is its an injectable so it has to be pharmaceutical grade production etc, unlike boluses or drenches which are feed grade

when applying for a licence in the uk procedure allows for a ROI licence at the same time(no extra paperwork) and the UK vet board is a lot tougher than the irish one.

I'd bet they haven't applied for a licence and the lads in the uk are using it anyway

ganmo

Lambman wrote: »

Half a ml is tiny... do u have till inject it straight into a vein?

the amount of b12 needed is tiny, its always micro gramms when most other vits are milli gramms.

ganmo

wrangler wrote: »

As you know OH has a science degree. she says it's harder to get an injectable licensed for unskilled operators...easier to accidentally inject yourself than accidentally dose yourself apparently....don't know what overdosing with B12 does :rolleyes:

You#'re probably reading TFF about it too....interesting

nothing, especially from a single dose...so no good for poisoning ppl

razor8

ganmo wrote: »

the problem is its an injectable so it has to be pharmaceutical grade production etc, unlike boluses or drenches which are feed grade

when applying for a licence in the uk procedure allows for a ROI licence at the same time(no extra paperwork) and the UK vet board is a lot tougher than the irish one.

I'd bet they haven't applied for a licence and the lads in the uk are using it anyway

So are you saying if my ROI vet writes a prescription I can then get the smartshot through a Uk vet?

ganmo

razor8 wrote: »

So are you saying if my ROI vet writes a prescription I can then get the smartshot through a Uk vet?

No it’s not on the list of things your vet can perscribe.