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Mountain Biking Forum

  • 26-07-2018 4:15pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 686 ✭✭✭


    Hi. I created a request for a mountain biking forum in the proper way as advised by a Mod. Please cast a vote (+1) if you'd like to see it happen. MODS - I'm only going to post this once to make people aware that the request is there.

    You should be able to find the request here - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=461


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭Eamonnator


    I'm stupid, so bear with me.
    How to you vote?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,281 ✭✭✭RobertFoster


    Eamonnator wrote: »
    I'm stupid, so bear with me.
    How to you vote?
    Add a +1/-1 to the thread OP posted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 277 ✭✭comanche_cor


    +1


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,919 ✭✭✭Odelay


    +1

    You need to do that on the forum request thread in the link. Doing it here wont count.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭Eamonnator


    How many +1s are required, before this happens?


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,884 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    " If the final tally (votes in favour/votes against ) is greater than +18 then the forum will be considered popular enough for consideration. If the tally of votes is higher than +20 for a continuous period of a week then the forum will be considered popular enough for consideration and the remainder of the 6 week period can be discarded."


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,884 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    based on that, the initial idea is already passed the first hurdle, from what i can see? there are 32 posts and only a few which are non-commital or -1s.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 686 ✭✭✭steamsey


    Great to see the (initial) support is there for a forum. One poster said it would need careful moderating because non-Coillte trails are a grey area legally - I think this is wrong. Coillte are fully aware of the unofficial trails and they are actually quite pro MTB. This should not be an issue and one of the main benefits of this forum is to have a place where, among other things, mountain bikers can finally talk about trails - maybe without being too explicit about location.

    For the Dublin based MTB'ers - a discussion about trails has never been needed more. They recently chopped down half of Ticknock and a lot of old trails disappeared along with the felling. Would be good to hear what people think, what trails people are riding and it may even create an opportunity for a bit of trail building to get Ticknock back to it's former glory!

    Apart from trail talk though - Mountain Biking is a growing sport and I see a lot of newbies out on the trails. The old advise for learning was to just join a MTB club - but this is not for everyone. The forum would be a great resource for all these people to be able to safely ask "stupid" questions. I have been MTB'ing for 20 years+ and it takes a long time to figure it all out (I'm still learning) - not just how to ride - but how to race, how to fix your bike yourself, how to fix things on the trail, what to bring with you when you're riding, good / bad reviews of parts, tyres etc - so that we can all learn from the collective knowledge that's out there.

    Most of the MTB discussion in Ireland is very segregated, What's App groups, club forums (many of which are very quiet) etc. So even for more experienced riders, it would be brilliant to have some form of centralised discussion by way of this forum.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 686 ✭✭✭steamsey


    " If the final tally (votes in favour/votes against ) is greater than +18 then the forum will be considered popular enough for consideration. If the tally of votes is higher than +20 for a continuous period of a week then the forum will be considered popular enough for consideration and the remainder of the 6 week period can be discarded."

    Think we have + 49 NET with only one -1. Can we discard the 6 week period and get it going please?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71 ✭✭df


    steamsey wrote: »
    because non-Coillte trails are a grey area legally.

    In legal terms the law is very clear, there is no grey area. However it's fair to say that Coillte turn a blind eye to mountain biking to some extent, but they have little choice. How could they enforce the bye-law?
    steamsey wrote: »
    Coillte are fully aware of the unofficial trails and they are actually quite pro MTB.

    I would say the opposite.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,669 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    I'm in favour
    Go fot it..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69 ✭✭BazzyB


    Got back on the bike for the first time this weekend after 5 years away from the scene...visited what would have been the local trails and found most of it was felled and the trails gone. Would be great to have a forum for this +1 from me


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,884 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    your +1s are counted in the thread linked above, not this one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 686 ✭✭✭steamsey


    BazzyB wrote: »
    Got back on the bike for the first time this weekend after 5 years away from the scene...visited what would have been the local trails and found most of it was felled and the trails gone. Would be great to have a forum for this +1 from me

    Presume you are talking about Ticknock? I get that it's a managed forest, and they have to do what they did but my jaw did drop the first time I saw the carnage up there a few months ago. A huge amount of trails lost - or at least buried. I'm sure some could be reclaimed but seems to be that a lot of people are at the bike park these days, so I'm not so confident that the trails will reappear.

    Sad to think that as the trees they felled would have taken 15-20 years to mature, an entire generation grew up riding those trails (myself included). So long EWOK!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69 ✭✭BazzyB


    steamsey wrote: »
    Presume you are talking about Ticknock? I get that it's a managed forest, and they have to do what they did but my jaw did drop the first time I saw the carnage up there a few months ago. A huge amount of trails lost - or at least buried. I'm sure some could be reclaimed but seems to be that a lot of people are at the bike park these days, so I'm not so confident that the trails will reappear.

    Sad to think that as the trees they felled would have taken 15-20 years to mature, an entire generation grew up riding those trails (myself included). So long EWOK!

    Actually a much smaller forest down south near Cork but had the same feelings myself. Grew up riding those trails....oh well will try to reclaim some of it :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 686 ✭✭✭steamsey


    df wrote: »
    In legal terms the law is very clear, there is no grey area. However it's fair to say that Coillte turn a blind eye to mountain biking to some extent, but they have little choice. How could they enforce the bye-law?



    I would say the opposite.

    Coillte license the Gravity Enduro events around Ireland. These events use official Coillte trails in some cases but for the most part, these races take place on unofficial trails. The organisers generally build the races around these unofficial trails. If Coillte had a problem with these trails it would be logical to assume that they would a) not licence the races that use these trails or b) destroy these trails.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 686 ✭✭✭steamsey


    BazzyB wrote: »
    Actually a much smaller forest down south near Cork but had the same feelings myself. Grew up riding those trails....oh well will try to reclaim some of it :pac:

    Sorry to hear that. Hope you can get some of the trails back in working order.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,100 ✭✭✭muckwarrior


    Firstly, the most recent felling in Ticknock was on privately owned land, not coilte forest, which is one of the reasons I'd be against organising trail building on an open public forum. In some cases clubs have a relationship with land owners and get permission before building trails on their land. By the way, the reason club forums seem so quiet is because most of the threads are kept to private members-only areas.

    Regarding coilte's position, some individuals in it may have no problem with mountain biking, but others certainly do. Evidently they seem willing to tolerate the current situation, where people riding unsanctioned trails make an effort to do so under the radar. However, if hordes of newbies showed up and start injuring themselves or crash into a group of walkers then that could quickly change. All it takes is one law-suit or a few complaints. How can they enforce the bye-law? I don't know and I don't want to find out!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭JJJJNR


    steamsey wrote: »
    Great to see the (initial) support is there for a forum. One poster said it would need careful moderating because non-Coillte trails are a grey area legally - I think this is wrong. Coillte are fully aware of the unofficial trails and they are actually quite pro MTB. This should not be an issue and one of the main benefits of this forum is to have a place where, among other things, mountain bikers can finally talk about trails - maybe without being too explicit about location.

    There's no grey area, from a coillte standing its a criminal offence to remove trees from forests and rightly so, personally there's nothing I hate more than seeing a badly thought out route, that has healthy trees removed for the sake of a recreational trail. Its the park ranger not coillte you need to keep an eye out for when building a trail.

    Coillte will do anything to make money, e.g. the trees in ballinastoe are hitting maturity now and its only a matter of time before the trails there are destroyed, if they were pro leisure they would leave them but they will be sold at auction like any other.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,080 ✭✭✭✭Big Nasty




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,556 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    JJJJNR wrote: »
    Coillte will do anything to make money, e.g. the trees in ballinastoe are hitting maturity now and its only a matter of time before the trails there are destroyed, if they were pro leisure they would leave them but they will be sold at auction like any other.
    I think they're conflicted to be fair to them - they're a commercial semi state, that's expected to also act like a not for profit. Very few of their forests aren't used for recreation of some sort, even if it's just locals. So I think it's a bigger debate about the whole aims and status of Coillte that's needed rather than just blame them for acting in their current remit*.

    As for ballinastoe, a lot of the official trails are the other side of clearance I would've thought? I haven't too much experience of the unofficial ones - built trails are my level!

    *I'd support it moving into a non commercial role, but I really don't know how that would work as presumably the state would still like to supply wood.

    It's also not just mountain bikers that unofficially use the forests - horses and scamblers are also technically banned. The latter doing a lot of damage that is blamed on mountain bikes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,080 ✭✭✭✭Big Nasty


    Very few Motocross / Trials bikes in Ticknock these days.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 686 ✭✭✭steamsey


    Firstly, the most recent felling in Ticknock was on privately owned land, not coilte forest, which is one of the reasons I'd be against organising trail building on an open public forum. In some cases clubs have a relationship with land owners and get permission before building trails on their land. By the way, the reason club forums seem so quiet is because most of the threads are kept to private members-only areas.

    Regarding coilte's position, some individuals in it may have no problem with mountain biking, but others certainly do. Evidently they seem willing to tolerate the current situation, where people riding unsanctioned trails make an effort to do so under the radar. However, if hordes of newbies showed up and start injuring themselves or crash into a group of walkers then that could quickly change. All it takes is one law-suit or a few complaints. How can they enforce the bye-law? I don't know and I don't want to find out!

    I fully agree that advertising trail building on an open forum is a bad idea. Was all of the felling on private land? I've no understanding of where the land borders are up there. Fully aware that a lot of the chatter happens on member's only areas of forums - been there, done that.

    Plenty of people are getting into the sport by all accounts but not sure we have to worry about hordes of newbies just yet.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,100 ✭✭✭muckwarrior


    I think coilte either needs to be replaced or overhauled. We need someone whose priority is the environment, not profit. https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/ireland-s-native-woodlands-are-quietly-disappearing-1.3529317#.Wyj1p4IqxAY.facebook

    In any case this is getting a bit off topic. If only we had a forum to discuss such things ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,556 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Big Nasty wrote: »
    Very few Motocross / Trials bikes in Ticknock these days.
    Maybe not Ticknock, but I've come across the same group a number of times who've come out of Dublin in vans in a few spots in Wicklow - I've met them a few times on the Sally Gap, and a few times around Brown Mountain/ Aghavannagh. I know there's a few locals with scramblers that use the Coiltte woods in my locality too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 686 ✭✭✭steamsey


    Big Nasty wrote: »
    Very few Motocross / Trials bikes in Ticknock these days.

    True - used to see (and hear) them all the time. Used to practically share the forests with them but haven't seen one in years. They did used to tear the place up badly. Plenty of horses around as has always been the case - leaving their ****e all over the place.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,080 ✭✭✭✭Big Nasty


    steamsey wrote: »
    True - used to see (and hear) them all the time. Used to practically share the forests with them but haven't seen one in years. They did used to tear the place up badly. Plenty of horses around as has always been the case - leaving their ****e all over the place.

    I've no issue with any other forest / recreational area users once people are respectful of others and don't put peoples lives in danger.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭bogmanfan


    I know this is off the original topic, but I encountered a motocross rider up in Ticknock last week. First time in ages, but they are still there.

    Back on topic - a separate mountain biking forum or sub-forum makes total sense to me. As someone who cycles on-road and off-road I see them as two very different disciplines. Yes, both involve a bicycle, but Gaelic football and rugby both use a ball. And like this example, the skills and fitness demands are very different in both.

    If there is a concern about trail discussion, could forum access be restricted?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 684 ✭✭✭JazzyJ


    steamsey wrote: »
    Was all of the felling on private land? I've no understanding of where the land borders are up there.

    FYI, not a great resolution map, but the Coilte lands are designated by the black border (the highlighted areas were the felling plans for 2017).

    bright-green-areas-show-which-forest-is-set-to-be-cut-in-2017.jpg


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,556 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Meant to say I also +1'd the thread.

    I restarted on the mtb last spring, and I've even more stupid questions about mtb's, than I do with my road and commuter, with or without trail talk (most natural trails beyond me anyway).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,794 ✭✭✭C3PO


    JJJJNR wrote: »
    There's no grey area, from a coillte standing its a criminal offence to remove trees from forests and rightly so, personally there's nothing I hate more than seeing a badly thought out route, that has healthy trees removed for the sake of a recreational trail.

    I've been around mountain biking for close on 15 years now and I've never seen a healthy tree cut down/removed to make way for an MTB trail .... dead trees and a few branches maybe!

    Actually that's not true ... the official Coillte trails cut down lots of trees!! :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,908 ✭✭✭CrowdedHouse


    So long as it's a forum under Sports not a sub forum of Cycling cos it's not really cycling.....:D

    Seven Worlds will Collide



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 786 ✭✭✭no.8


    +1


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 686 ✭✭✭steamsey


    I think you're meant to do the +1's on https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=461.

    Must be 50 plus votes at this stage so plenty of support.

    Let's not get bogged down with whether or not we can talk about trails - we can agree to be discreet, cryptic where we need to be but let's not exaggerate the risk either.

    There is a lot of other stuff to discuss - trails being just one of many.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,100 ✭✭✭muckwarrior


    Big Nasty wrote: »
    I've no issue with any other forest / recreational area users once people are respectful of others and don't put peoples lives in danger.

    Would agree with that other than to say that motocrossers can be a bit anti-social due to the noise pollution. Not necessarily a big deal in some areas, but there was one day about a year ago when I was hiking around Djouce woods and the sound of MX bikes was echoing loudly throughout the whole valley completely destroying the peace and quiet.

    Horse crap can be a bit annoying sometimes, but it's a small price to pay for people being able to get out and enjoy the hobby they love. Live and let live I say.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,038 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    bogmanfan wrote: »
    .... a separate mountain biking forum or sub-forum makes total sense to me. As someone who cycles on-road and off-road...
    The main disadvantage though, is that many like myself may venture into a MTB thread in the main Cycling folder and perhaps contribute to it but we are unlikely to do so in a sub-forum/separate forum.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,287 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    The main disadvantage though, is that many like myself may venture into a MTB thread in the main Cycling folder and perhaps contribute to it but we are unlikely to do so in a sub-forum/separate forum.

    I would agree, mostly road cycle but do a bit of down hill mtb - probably would not look at a separate forum .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,287 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    df wrote: »
    In legal terms the law is very clear, there is no grey area. However it's fair to say that Coillte turn a blind eye to mountain biking to some extent, but they have little choice. How could they enforce the bye-law?



    I would say the opposite.

    Really depends on the forester.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 489 ✭✭benneca1


    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/si/151/made/en/print

    Pretty clear here unless you are on a designated trail you cannot cycle in Coillte forests. Enforcement is a different matter but I am pretty sure if you hit a walker you will be wrong. Would also be interesting whether or not CI insurance would cover any claim that might arise.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,884 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i think we have an early contender for the first topic of debate in the MTB forum.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,273 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Big Nasty wrote: »
    I've no issue with any other forest / recreational area users once people are respectful of others and don't put peoples lives in danger.

    Guys on scramblers, not trials, can't help ruin a nice quiet ride, walk or run in the countryside because of the noise from a lot of their **** boxes.

    Complaining about horse **** in the woods is a funny thing to complain about though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 669 ✭✭✭idnkph


    i want to +1 on the phone and the tramp of a link aint working


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭JJJJNR


    Think we should sticky a Trail-building thread when we get the forum up and running. Be cool.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,794 ✭✭✭C3PO


    JJJJNR wrote:
    Think we should sticky a Trail-building thread when we get the forum up and running. Be cool.

    That's a joke ... isn't it? :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭Eamonnator


    C3PO wrote: »
    That's a joke ... isn't it? :confused:

    Anybody. who thinks that senior staff in Coillte don't monitor social media, needs a reality check.
    A few years ago, I was involved with a MTB club. We used unauthorised trails, which were well tended and away from pedestrian routes.
    One evening a young lad had a bit of a crash. There was quite a bit of spilled blood. Before the chap got home, there were photographs posted on Facebook, showing lots of blood and cuts.
    At 9.15am, the following morning, I got a phone call from C.I.'s mountain bike rep, asking wtf, we were thinking about, posting the photos. He had been called by The CEO of C.I., who in turned had been called by an executive in Coillte, who had seen the Facebook post. Thereafter Coillte took a great interest in the wood, where the incident occurred. They put up new "Biking prohibited" signs, trashed trails and knocked and destroyed some features of the trails.
    To this day, Coillte take a keen interest in these trails.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,158 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    JJJJNR wrote: »
    Think we should sticky a Trail-building thread when we get the forum up and running. Be cool.

    Don't you mean the Trail building forum on Private Land thread? ;)

    Anyone who builds trails won't be advertising it on a public forum, not just because of some Coillte exec might call Sean Kelly himself to sort it out! :D

    Coillte's business is planting and harvesting trees, anything outside that is of extremely little interest to them...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭xxyyzz


    I think coilte either needs to be replaced or overhauled. We need someone whose priority is the environment, not profit. https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/ireland-s-native-woodlands-are-quietly-disappearing-1.3529317#.Wyj1p4IqxAY.facebook

    In any case this is getting a bit off topic. If only we had a forum to discuss such things ;)

    I build a lot of under the radar trails and the thing with the article above is that the soil conditions under pine/spruce trees make for the best trail building. It's generally dryer, grippier and loamier. Also very little grows on the ground under them so it makes trail building much easier.

    The dirt under Ireland's traditional woodland type trees turns to slippy muck at the merest hint of rain. Also the scrub underneath them like briars, willows, nettles etc thrive under them so it makes trail building a nightmare. Bring on the spruces I say :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Coillte's business is planting and harvesting trees, anything outside that is of extremely little interest to them...

    They also sell sites when it suits them and have no problem earning money from recreational activity; hunting rights are sold every year and the sums involved aren't small.

    Coillte want it every way; they have been handed a massive asset to manage but their priority has evolved to just a commercial one with a few mtb parks thrown/walking trails thrown in as tokens.


    It needs a political/legislative solution to get the most out of an underused and massive resource and bring some control freak forest managers to heel.

    The hunting thing is a mess waiting to happen. The typical procedure is blocks comprising 100's of acres are sold off every year. When the hunters come in they place "no entry signs firearms in use" at public roads entrances. It sounds great in theory but usually hunters aren't local and put up two signs not knowing there are 5/6 more vehicular entrances into wood and many more by bike.


    On 3 occasions in last 5 years I've meet d1ckheads with rifle on bipods on forest road aiming gun down forest road waiting for deer to cross, while I've been approaching. I own a deer capable rifle myself and I'm not anti hunting but that carry on isn't near good practice.


    It isn't hard to manage different users but it would take effort from Coillte. As cyclists/walkers/horse riders add nothing to coffers guess who'll come out the best side of any sorting of issue.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,556 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    I would say again, that Coiltte are given a contradictory role. If we don't want it to be a commercial semi-state, that should be the debate to be had politically. It is falling between two stools, but that's because it's given two different aims. It's expected to provide a dividend to the state and manage the resources for recreational use. They're not always going to work together, especially when harvesting time comes.

    I'd prefer it to be given a total recreation remit tbh, as from a tourism perspective we really under utilize our forested areas. Could've been worse, FF/ McCarthy had it on his list for privatisation...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭Thud


    Tenzor07 wrote: »

    Coillte's business is planting and harvesting trees, anything outside that is of extremely little interest to them...

    Except this:
    https://www.coillte.ie/our-business/our-products/renewable-energy/

    supposedly their main focus lately


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