Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

Pelvis

Heard that tape earlier, didn't think there was all that much in it tbh. And it's hard to take Omarosa seriously when I have no doubt in my mind that she was laughing along with everyone else.

Water John

It's ironic when it is the present White House turns out to be the swamp.

looksee

No there isn't much in it, its the usual rambling gibberish. I think laughing is over stating it, more like a nervous reaction to hearing your boss talking incomprehensible rubbish. Its the simple fact that these are the words that Trump spoke that is worrying, the man cannot string a sentence together, never mind one that makes any sense.

Manic Moran

MadYaker wrote: »

Democrats in Pennsylvania wouldn't agree with Democrats in California on gun control.

This is true. Remember how folks were pleased that Conor Lamb won a tight race for the Democrats in PA a few months ago? This still is from his first TV advert, saying he loves to shoot. (Yes, they used the phrase "Loves to shoot")



There is no way that would pass in San Francisco. But California is not the US at large. I would be extremely cautious about applying CA or NY values on the matter to the rest of the US. Even Democrats.

Id imagine most dems from rural states would be in favour of tighter gun control. I'm fairly sure Sanders wasn't massively in favour of it as gun ownership is high in his state

http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-gun-policy/

The state of Vermont, which Bernie represents as senator, is the most gun-friendly state in the nation, while at the same time it boasts the absolute lowest rate of gun-related crime.

This is true. You don't even need a permit to carry a concealed firearm in Vermont.

According to that site, he is in favour of a nationwide "assault weapons" ban, standard and high capacity magazine ban, and better background checks. He differed with Clinton in concepts such as holding firearms manufacturers responsible for criminal use of their products (She's for, he's against), and in his thinking that individual states should be the primary source of firearms regulation. He believes mental health is a strong focus to address mass shootings.

Polling states that most folks in the country (Actually, a significant majority) support increased gun control measures. However, there is a difference between Clinton style increases, Lamb style increases and Toomey style increases. As I said, the quibble is over the level of regulation.

t's interesting that you can say this when a true vote on gun ownership has never been put to the electorate.

A true vote on "anything" has never been put to the electorate, because there is no such thing as a nationwide vote. There is only polling, and state-wide voting. These overwhelmingly support the idea that the average person may own a firearm in general, and that, in specific, there should be a constitutional right to one.

Calina

That they believe this, Manic, does not mean they are correct. Experience in just about every other developed country in the world demonstrates that when you implement strict rules regarding guns, your number of fire arm related deaths falls. No other developed countries has issues with mass shootings the way the US does and the US has demonstrated a willingness to tolerate dead school children in order to keep guns. So we know what they believe.

I just happen to think they are wrong.

But demonstrably the collective level of intelligence in the US is poor at the moment. The country voted in Trump and is going lala I can't hear you about the features of his presidency which will not benefit the country.

RIGOLO

Calina wrote: »

That they believe this, Manic, does not mean they are correct. Experience in just about every other developed country in the world demonstrates that when you implement strict rules regarding guns, your number of fire arm related deaths falls. No other developed countries has issues with mass shootings the way the US does and the US has demonstrated a willingness to tolerate dead school children in order to keep guns. So we know what they believe.

I just happen to think they are wrong.

But demonstrably the collective level of intelligence in the US is poor at the moment. The country voted in Trump and is going lala I can't hear you about the features of his presidency which will not benefit the country.

Most of the anti-Trump posters here seem to be either new to the party, as in new to US political discussion , or else have a poor knowledge of the history (even recent history) of US politics, or perhaps are both.

For many years The Republican party was historically the party of the college educated class, and the Democrat party a party that aligned itself with the poor working class, high school diploma.
I bet you a dollar you werent saying they had poor level of intelligence when they were voting for your candidate or helped get Obama into office.

The only people going lala with their fingers in their ears are the left who havent gotten over losing the election. Trump administration supporters have so many substantive improvments to talk about they last thing they are doing is what you describe.

Thankfully elections and issues are not decided by what one person thinks, they are decided by a far more complex and fairer (albeit not perfect) system.

Calina

I don't care what the GOP were historically. They aren't it now.

Leroy42

Rigolo, you seriously don't see anything wrong with a WH in chaos, a POTUS that is a complete and proven liar, who surrounded himself with now convicted criminals?

You don't see anything wrong with a man that has turned his nose up at the ethics of the office, that has attempted to use the position to bully for his daughters business.

You don't see anything wrong with a POTUS that tries to get directly involved in ongoing criminal proceedings and has nothing to say when that person he tried to defend is convicted by a jury of massive tax fraud?

You don't see anything wrong with the POTUS using WH resources to lie t try to cover up for his son? Who has spent nearly every weekend on the golf course despite claiming he would work harder than any other POTUS? A POTUS that has done nothing to reduce gun violence? Has done nothing to help in the areas of education?

irishash

RIGOLO wrote: »

Most of the anti-Trump posters here seem to be either new to the party, as in new to US political discussion , or else have a poor knowledge of the history (even recent history) of US politics, or perhaps are both.

For many years The Republican party was historically the party of the college educated class, and the Democrat party a party that aligned itself with the poor working class, high school diploma.
I bet you a dollar you werent saying they had poor level of intelligence when they were voting for your candidate or helped get Obama into office.

You can post and avoid condescension at the same time - I don't paint all Trump supporters to be the same as you, so maybe you should not make sweeping generalisations about people posting here. I have found this discussion to be of a very high calibre most of the time.

If you want to talk about the history of the GOP, you will of course know that back in the late 1800's they orchestrated an ambitious expansion of federal power, helping to fund the transcontinental railroad, the state university system and the settlement of the West by homesteaders. How very socialist of them.....Democrats opposed all of these measures. Fast forward to the election of FDR who introduced regulation of financial institutions, founded welfare & pension programs and infrastructure development. Republicans opposed all of these measures. That was some turnaround.

The GOP used to be the working mans party, not a party of elites and the educated. But none of that matters, because populist political parties tend to change their minds every couple of years. You can look at history all you like for trends and context, but don't bother if you want to make comparisons between what a party like the GOP used to stand for and what they are now.

looksee

RIGOLO wrote: »

Most of the anti-Trump posters here seem to be either new to the party, as in new to US political discussion , or else have a poor knowledge of the history (even recent history) of US politics, or perhaps are both.

For many years The Republican party was historically the party of the college educated class, and the Democrat party a party that aligned itself with the poor working class, high school diploma.
I bet you a dollar you werent saying they had poor level of intelligence when they were voting for your candidate or helped get Obama into office.

The only people going lala with their fingers in their ears are the left who havent gotten over losing the election. Trump administration supporters have so many substantive improvments to talk about they last thing they are doing is what you describe.

Thankfully elections and issues are not decided by what one person thinks, they are decided by a far more complex and fairer (albeit not perfect) system.

Can you show some evidence of this? I have been looking at articles on the subject and can find nothing more conclusive than that previously there was fairly even balance between R and D and levels of education. This is now slipping very clearly (and especially among women) towards higher educated people voting D.

This is far from conclusive but is the most relevant article I could find http://www.people-press.org/2015/04/07/a-deep-dive-into-party-affiliation/

Water John

Mike pence is absolutely right not to dine alone with a woman. The Saudis just went and arrested a man for doing so.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/11/man-arrested-in-saudi-arabia-for-having-breakfast-with-woman

Just shows Ultras on all sides are a dangerous breed.

RIGOLO

irishash wrote: »

You can post and avoid condescension at the same time - I don't paint all Trump supporters to be the same as you, so maybe you should not make sweeping generalisations about people posting here. I have found this discussion to be of a very high calibre most of the time.

If you want to talk about the history of the GOP, you will of course know that back in the late 1800's they orchestrated an ambitious expansion of federal power, helping to fund the transcontinental railroad, the state university system and the settlement of the West by homesteaders. How very socialist of them.....Democrats opposed all of these measures. Fast forward to the election of FDR who introduced regulation of financial institutions, founded welfare & pension programs and infrastructure development. Republicans opposed all of these measures. That was some turnaround.

The GOP used to be the working mans party, not a party of elites and the educated. But none of that matters, because populist political parties tend to change their minds every couple of years. You can look at history all you like for trends and context, but don't bother if you want to make comparisons between what a party like the GOP used to stand for and what they are now.

You missed my point completely, as did everyone else it seems.
I wasnt discussing historical party policy flip flopping , sure you could write a book or 200 on that, and its been done.

My point is that currently the left , main stream media , antitrump brigade etc, have taken the vitriol and insults to a new level in their attack of a cohort of the American voting population.
A subset which in previous elections helped the Dems to victory.
The comments on here 'lack of intelligence' just follows a long line back to the classic HRC ' deplorables '.
The level of insults from those who preach civility , against a particular demographic (remember a demographic that in recent elections got them over the line) has reached a new low.

But please keep it up, American voters have long memories, and have a strong tradition of passing on their values and experience to their children.
Theres a whole generation being raised who are learning the condesention with which many people hold them . Future Republican voters, some as soon as 2020 no doubt.

Leroy42

RIGOLO wrote: »

But please keep it up, American voters have long memories, and have a strong tradition of passing on their values and experience to their children.
Theres a whole generation being raised who are learning the condesention with which many people hold them . Future Republican voters, some as soon as 2020 no doubt.

Complete rubbish. Long memories? It was the GOP and lack of regulation that lead to the 2008 crash. Yet they have voted for a man that promised to ditch regulation!

Passing their values. So we have to accept that new stream of voters will follow from their parents in accepting lies, denegration of opponents, cronyism, corruption, illegal acts whilst in a campaign. Accept that the POTUS has no actual handle on the key issues of the day, such as healthcare or the military.

How can you talk about condescension, why Trump entire play book is based on exactly that?

Dohnjoe

RIGOLO wrote: »

My point is that currently the left , main stream media , antitrump brigade etc, have taken the vitriol and insults to a new level in their attack of a cohort of the American voting population.

Trump is deeply unpopular outside of his core support base because he is a highly decisive individual. In 25 years of following US politics I have never come across candidate as extreme as him.

That's attempting to look at it from a US perspective. Looking at it from a purely European perspective - it's next to impossible to find any redeeming feature to his character, his demeanour, his reasoning skills or any qualities as a leader

Arguing that he is treated "unfairly" by consensus is ridiculous - there have been other terrible world leaders roundly condemned by the rest of the world. Chavez in Venezuela wasn't the victim of a large group of global anti-Chavez fringe - he was a populist and a bad leader. But, like Trump, his core support base simply couldn't see that. His policies and his protegee has subsequently destroyed that country.. their core voters still failing to see it, despite the glaring evidence that everyone else in the country, and the international community can see

looksee

RIGOLO wrote: »

You missed my point completely, as did everyone else it seems.
I wasnt discussing historical party policy flip flopping , sure you could write a book or 200 on that, and its been done.

My point is that currently the left , main stream media , antitrump brigade etc, have taken the vitriol and insults to a new level in their attack of a cohort of the American voting population.
A subset which in previous elections helped the Dems to victory.
The comments on here 'lack of intelligence' just follows a long line back to the classic HRC ' deplorables '.
The level of insults from those who preach civility , against a particular demographic (remember a demographic that in recent elections got them over the line) has reached a new low.

But please keep it up, American voters have long memories, and have a strong tradition of passing on their values and experience to their children.
Theres a whole generation being raised who are learning the condesention with which many people hold them . Future Republican voters, some as soon as 2020 no doubt.

I think it is as simple as, non trump supporters are very very worried about the level of total incompetence that he has brought to the office of president. It really has little to do with 'sides', its the man. If a competent republican were in the white house there would probably be the usual level of debate and discussion but not the fear that is causing the hate that is aimed at Trump and his henchmen. It really does defy belief that anyone, even a republican, could defend him at this stage.

everlast75

Anything foremost on your mind, Sir, on this day above any others?

Of course! Let your first tweet be poignant and considered, sympathetic to all on this day that brings back such memories.

Just kidding!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1039470755816374272

pixelburp

Yet it's the "anti Trumpers" who are dismissed for insanity: here's the current sitting President implying collusion, and claiming possession of evidence to this fact - yet does nothing with this supposed bombshell. Echoes of the supposed bombshells over the whole Birther disgrace, where Trump also claimed to possess a big revelation never actually revealed.

The Republicans control every branch of government - including the DoJ that Trump is now confusingly accusing of collusion - and yet they are apparently uninterested in pursuing a case that'd bring down their most hated rival (after Obama). This language is just outright dangerous, any anyone claiming superior knowledge of US politics should see it for the dangerous precedent it's stoking - clear, demonstrable anti-government, authoritarian rhetoric.

With bold statements like the above Tweet, there are only so many possibilities at play here:

1) Trump is lying
2) He's telling the truth and is trapped within some Deep State conspiracy.
3) He's telling the truth and the Republicans are wildly incompetent to a dangerous degree.

That number 1 is cheerfully canned in favour of some nonsense conspiracy theories speaks volumes. The US President is a paranoid, serial lier. In any case, if the Deep State were really out to get him, there are cheaper, less politically complicated ways to get rid of a 72 year old man with a famously bad diet.

mcmoustache

everlast75 wrote: »

Anything foremost on your mind, Sir, on this day above any others?

Of course! Let your first tweet be poignant and considered, sympathetic to all on this day that brings back such memories.

Just kidding!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1039470755816374272

He's just having his executive time where he live-tweets quotes from his favourite morning tv shows.

Woodward's book is released today too and should provide some headlines, intrigue and paranoia during the coming week.

everlast75

mcmoustache wrote: »

He's just having his executive time where he live-tweets quotes from his favourite morning tv shows.

Woodward's book is released today too and should provide some headlines, intrigue and paranoia during the coming week.

I've said it before but it bears repeating.

The man is an absolute pig.

blackwave

So quick question. How much has Trump gutted FEMA since he took power? Just curious ahead of Florence which looks to set to be an extremely damaging hurricane.

RIGOLO

everlast75 wrote: »

I've said it before but it bears repeating.

The man is an absolute pig.

So I guess your not one of those who is going along with Nancy Pelosi's recent call for more 'civility' in the debate...

circadian

Incredible that the President of the USA claims the mainstream media is fake news yet Fox is clearly supplying false talking points that he repeats without question.

Leroy42

RIGOLO wrote: »

So I guess your not one of those who is going along with Nancy Pelosi's recent call for more 'civility' in the debate...

Wait, hold on. I thought Pelosi was akin to the anti-christ. Are you saying that we should be listening to her now?

Confused

circadian

RIGOLO wrote: »

So I guess your not one of those who is going along with Nancy Pelosi's recent call for more 'civility' in the debate...

It's all fine and well asking for civility but the gloves have been off for at least the last two years and civility has gotten the Democrats nowhere.

When presented with cold hard facts people skip around and display an amazing degree of mental gymnastics to refute the evidence. Where is the civility in actually debating the facts instead of the usual "witch hunt", "her emails", "Obama's fault" lines that get rolled out as routine. Civility goes both ways.

everlast75

RIGOLO wrote: »

So I guess your not one of those who is going along with Nancy Pelosi's recent call for more 'civility' in the debate...

I've had 2 years of civility. That only goes so far and with people who want to listen to facts.

I've come around to Michael Shannon's view....


"Speaking to Playboy, the 44-year-old star blasted the president, claiming Trump is not "capable of deep reflection."

"He’s probably thinking 'I want some f---ing p----.' I don’t know. I’m not going to remotely contemplate the notion that Trump is capable of deep reflection," he said after being asked what he thinks goes through the president's head at night.

He added: "In any form! It doesn’t happen. F--- that guy. When he’s alone with his thoughts, he’s not capable of anything more complex than 'I want some p---- and a cheeseburger. Maybe my wife will b--- me if I tell her she’s pretty."

The magazine also asked Shannon if he would ever portray the president, to which he simply replied: "No."

However, when further pressed about the topic, the actor slammed the president, saying Trump doesn't "even know what's in the Constitution."

"He's having the time of his life," Shannon said, per The Hollywood Reporter, as the September/October 2018 issue is not out yet.

"He doesn’t even have to work. All the hard work that most people have to do to be president of the United States, he just f---ing skipped all that. The f---ing guy doesn’t even know what’s in the Constitution. He doesn’t have any grasp of history or politics or law or anything. He’s just blindfolded throwing darts at the side of a bus."

Shannon also spoke about Trump supporters.

"Somebody who thinks Trump is doing a good job, there's no conversation to have with that person," Shannon said.

He continued: "I know they say you should reach across the aisle and all that crap, but to me it feels like putting your hand into a fan"

pixelburp

RIGOLO wrote: »

So I guess your not one of those who is going along with Nancy Pelosi's recent call for more 'civility' in the debate...

Any chance you could actually debate the substance of the President's tweets instead of affecting the moral highground because some people have a personal distaste? Do you subscribe to his accusations of collusion between his DoJ, FBI, Clinton and Russia; or indeed do you believe he possesses this evidence but somehow fails to disclose it? Because if you don't, shouldn't that disturb you about a sitting President making that severe claim?

You talk of debate and civility, yet chose not to engage in the demonstrable output of the President - output that upends anything resembling the diplomatic, political norm.

everlast75

Some of ye may or may not know of this audio clip of Trump on 9/11, so I thought I would post it...


https://twitter.com/NumbersMuncher/status/1039483911779348481?s=19

Penn

everlast75 wrote: »

Some of ye may or may not know of this audio clip of Trump on 9/11, so I thought I would post it...

Let's also not forget how classy and respectful he tends to be on the anniversary of 9/11

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/377947866641485824

(I think he deleted the actual one from Sep 11 2013, then quoted himself repeating it the next day)

Hurrache

I did have a listen to that clip earlier today, but other people since tweeted that it's cropped and therefore makes it sounds worse than it is, the full audio of the interview has a different context. However I didn't get a chance to listen as if that's true.

Professor Moriarty

RIGOLO wrote: »

So I guess your not one of those who is going along with Nancy Pelosi's recent call for more 'civility' in the debate...

Civility? Seriously? Listen, whatever it take to get that clown out of office is fine by me. Lies, personal attacks, threats, they're all good. Karma's a bitch.