Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

Call Me Jimmy

oscarBravo wrote: »

As a business owner, I have a capitalist viewpoint. What is met with derision around here is libertarianism - the idea that there should be just barely enough government to ensure that corporations and their rich owners can be safely protected from the unwashed hordes.

What's also met with derision is a wilful inability to distinguish "socialism" from "social democracy", which is almost as stupid as the inability to distinguish "socialism" from "national socialism".

Great point. My rule is don't use the word socialism unless we're talking means of production or forced labour. I have found it strange why people like bernie and acazio cortez use it.I think it's intentional, they know it is quite a sexy word for young people on the left, get's the people going. If they say they're social democrats it just doesn't have that revolutionary ring to it.

Libertarianism is similar for people on the right but unfortunately the best option is usually found in the boring space between the two. However with the technological revolution about to change the world again who knows what we will need to do to adapt.

dr.fuzzenstein

It's funny how right-wing advocates of US hypercapitalism and zero government only ever seem to see countries such as China, Somalia or Nazi Germany as viable examples of different systems, with Nordic (or other successful left leaning) countries ignored, downplayed or sneered at.
I wonder how long their high tech economy would last if every child costs the equivalent of a house to educate and every hospital visit the same.
They seem to gleefully accept that 20% of the country will live in 3rd world poverty, but it's OK, poor peopl are lazy and/or stupid and don't deserve help such as education, healthcare or social welfare.
In many ways it's the American dream (nightmare). If you can't make it, it's YOUR fault and you deserve to suffer.
It's only the first world for the top 10%. The rest can kindly FOAD. They may only do as stem cell donors for the superrich.

Eric Cartman

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

It's funny how right-wing advocates of US hypercapitalism and zero government only ever seem to see countries such as China, Somalia or Nazi Germany as viable examples of different systems, with Nordic (or other successful left leaning) countries ignored, downplayed or sneered at.
I wonder how long their high tech economy would last if every child costs the equivalent of a house to educate and every hospital visit the same.
They seem to gleefully accept that 20% of the country will live in 3rd world poverty, but it's OK, poor peopl are lazy and/or stupid and don't deserve help such as education, healthcare or social welfare.
In many ways it's the American dream (nightmare). If you can't make it, it's YOUR fault and you deserve to suffer.
It's only the first world for the top 10%. The rest can kindly FOAD. They may only do as stem cell donors for the superrich.

Thats why norwegian companies constantly loophole taxation to buy products in other countries , Its why finish companies regularly stockpile money in other countries to not pay tax on it, Theres loads of norwegians here working in call centres because they cant afford to live in norway.

A lot of the time this is the case, not always but people are masters of their own destiny and often its poor choices made have left them poor.

ELM327

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Thats why norwegian companies constantly loophole taxation to buy products in other countries , Its why finish companies regularly stockpile money in other countries to not pay tax on it, Theres loads of norwegians here working in call centres because they cant afford to live in norway.

A lot of the time this is the case, not always but people are masters of their own destiny and often its poor choices made have left them poor.

+1
I spent some time working as a risk/loss assessor (not the insurance industry kind) and we had a term called "moral hazard". Why would you protect yourself from risk of loss if you're going to be protected/insured for your loss anyway with no repercussion. So we priced that into the projections.
In the socialist banana republics like this, there are little penalties for those on the life time dole.

B0jangles

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Thats why norwegian companies constantly loophole taxation to buy products in other countries , Its why finish companies regularly stockpile money in other countries to not pay tax on it, Theres loads of norwegians here working in call centres because they cant afford to live in norway.

A lot of the time this is the case, not always but people are masters of their own destiny and often its poor choices made have left them poor.

This Disneyesque fantasy again?

People are only free to choose between the options that are available to them. Do you really think that a person born into wealth and a person born into poverty have access to the same choices about how their lives will play out?

Given your enthusiasm for ending pretty much every program that would actually help a person born into poverty to escape it, I find it hard to believe that you believe what you are saying, or that you have any interest in helping anyone but yourself. No-one chooses to be born poor, but helping people out of poverty is not only the humane thing to do, it also helps to build a stronger and more prosperous society.

ELM327

B0jangles wrote: »

This Disneyesque fantasy again?

People are only free to choose between the options that are available to them. Do you really think that a person born into wealth and a person born into poverty have access to the same choices about how their lives will play out?

Given your enthusiasm for ending pretty much every program that would actually help a person born into poverty to escape it, I find it hard to believe that you believe what you are saying, or that you have any interest in helping anyone but yourself. No-one chooses to be born poor, but helping people out of poverty is not only the humane thing to do, it also helps to build a stronger and more prosperous society.

Genuine question: So do you follow the policies of the loony left like AAA/PBP, SF et al with the likes of higher taxes on earnings of over €100k?

prawnsambo

ELM327 wrote: »

Genuine question: So do you follow the policies of the loony left like AAA/PBP, SF et al with the likes of higher taxes on earnings of over €100k?

I very much doubt the genuineness of your question when you refer to the 'loony left'. Kind of a giveaway there.

And before you ask, I don't personally align with who you list there. But sticking labels on things is a sure way to earn yourself a label.

Harry Palmr

The Donald is blowing his top.

ELM327

prawnsambo wrote: »

I very much doubt the genuineness of your question when you refer to the 'loony left'. Kind of a giveaway there.

And before you ask, I don't personally align with who you list there. But sticking labels on things is a sure way to earn yourself a label.

Well they are loony. Hurling from the ditches because they will never be in government.


Call them whatever you want yourself tbh but it's immaterial.

ELM327

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The Donald is blowing his top.

Care to qualify that with a link to well, something?

B0jangles

ELM327 wrote: »

Genuine question: So do you follow the policies of the loony left like AAA/PBP, SF et al with the likes of higher taxes on earnings of over €100k?

What does that have to do with it?

Are you unable to comprehend a middle ground between 'seize the wealth, burn the capitalists!' and the kind of libertarian hellscape that you and Eric seem to want?

Social policies aimed at helping people out of poverty, making sure people working fulltime jobs can actually afford a place to live and enough to eat can co-exist with capitalism.

I find it really odd that both of you seem to be extremely keen to defend the right of billionaires to get richer and richer at the expense of people like you and me - you know that they aren't going to let you into the club just because you fight for them on messageboards?

The megarich are getting megaricher because they are actively destroying the means by which other people might climb a little way up the ladder.

Harry Palmr

ELM327 wrote: »

Care to qualify that with a link to well, something?

Live tv right now

prawnsambo

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Live tv right now

I saw something on Twitter about him meandering on about Reps who lost because they didn't endorse him. And listing them almost gleefully. Is this what you refer to?

gu1nness

SNIP. No more one-liners please.

Harry Palmr

prawnsambo wrote: »

I saw something on Twitter about him meandering on about Reps who lost because they didn't endorse him. And listing them almost gleefully. Is this what you refer to?

er it's everything,. he seems to be in full on attack the media mode.

prawnsambo

Harry Palmr wrote: »

er it's everything,. he seems to be in full on attack the media mode.

I think I'll wait for the edited highlights. I often find that I fear greatly for the future of the human race if I have to listen to more than a snippet. or two.

Christy42

https:/www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/the-man-in-charge-of-overseeing-georgias-elections-had-trouble-voting-on-election-dayWait. If I have this right the man in charge of elections in Georgia this year is also running in an election this year in Georgia? The story talks about some admin error but that is minor for me.How is someone in charge of these elections running in them? Next up Sexton will ref our game vs New Zealand?This is ridiculous and beyond parody. These issues also stem long before Trump as well.

Harry Palmr wrote: »

prawnsambo wrote: »

I saw something on Twitter about him meandering on about Reps who lost because they didn't endorse him. And listing them almost gleefully. Is this what you refer to?

er it's everything,. he seems to be in full on attack the media mode.

Obviously. Blame anything and everything. Note that many presidents have lost the house under their watch but they have tended to take in a more dignified manner as opposed to a full on temper tantrum.

Kermit.de.frog

This press conference is totally unhinged!

Rjd2

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/07/us/politics/democrats-republicans-house.html

This is a pretty in-depth read of how the Republicans lost the house, obviously Trump was a key factor but Paul Ryan legging it which is something that not many people focused on really hurt the party. Ryan like Trump won't be high on the Xmas card list for those who have lost there seats.

Professor Moriarty

So it was Obama's fault that a part of Ukraine was annexed. Nothing to do with Putin. Imagine, there are people watching The Donald who believe the things he says.

prawnsambo

Rjd2 wrote: »

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/07/us/politics/democrats-republicans-house.html

This is a pretty in-depth read of how the Republicans lost the house, obviously Trump was a key factor but Paul Ryan legging it which is something that not many people focused on really hurt the party. Ryan like Trump won't be high on the Xmas card list for those who have lost there seats.

The Paul Ryan legging it thing has me intrigued. He's practically a teenager in comparison to some of the relics still rattling around the houses of congress and has a very high profile. I initially thought he was going to make a run for the WH, but with Donald committed to running, it would be far too early for him to step out of the public eye. Just don't get it.

prawnsambo

For those wondering, here's one snippet from the presser. Truly bizarre that a US president would behave like this

At one point there, I thought he was actually going to get down off the dais and physically attack the CNN reporter.

Igotadose

prawnsambo wrote: »

For those wondering, here's one snippet from the presser. Truly bizarre that a US president would behave like this

At one point there, I thought he was actually going to get down off the dais and physically attack the CNN reporter.

How do these reporters retain their dignity? Trump's insane!

PopePalpatine

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

This press conference is totally unhinged!

Would you say there's some kind of syndrome at play here? Perhaps some sort of derangement?

pixelburp

So again uses the phrase 'enemy of the people', and yet there are those that would try and suggest his words have no link or hold no responsibility for the actions taken by his more violent supporters. It couldn't be a more loaded phrase, with clear designs on authoritarianism. Remarkable stuff.

Itssoeasy

I've just watched that clip with jim Acosta and Trump. Jesus what is wrong with Trump ?

gimli2112

Why do his advisers let him do stuff like this, is it that they just can't stop him or is it really that it doesn't affect his support. Surely a fair minded person has to look at this and think "errrrr?"

Itssoeasy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

This press conference is totally unhinged!

kermit that statement makes the assumption that his previous press conferences have been sarine and calm affairs. None of the few I've seen have been anything other than insane.

Kermit.de.frog

Jaysus it's getting worse.

"Jeff Flake didn't retire, I retired him"

26000 Elephants

prawnsambo wrote: »

I think I'll wait for the edited highlights. I often find that I fear greatly for the future of the human race if I have to listen to more than a snippet. or two.

I'd usually be the same, but i couldnt resist this time! I'm glad i did. The schadenfreude is delicious....