Scholar Calls Pedophilia 'An Unchangeable Sexual Orientation' that Should Be Accepted

sexmag

http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/health/2018/july/scholar-says-pedophilia-is-an-unchangeable-sexual-orientation-and-should-be-accepted-by-society

Ehhhhhhh? We should accept diddlers now?

heebusjeebus

Nonce sense

Computer says no

BattleCorp

It shouldn't be accepted but I'd say she's right otherwise.

Jim Bob Scratcher

The Christian perspective :pac:

Guy:Incognito

Accept that they feel this way and treat them/ monitor them, or accept that they are the way they are and allow them to have sex with pre pubescent children? 2 very different things there.

Gatling

A student said it .

ricero

The new wave looney liberals are scary

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

A medical student? So we have to take this one young, inexperienced and unqualified person seriously? I think not.

Church on Tuesday

If ideas like this, kite flying exercises essentially, keep been trotted out I think we as a society may as well give up.

Cee-Jay-Cee

This doesn’t deserve to be discussed.

Fr Tod Umptious

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Accept that they feel this way and treat them/ monitor them, or accept that they are the way they are and allow them to have sex with pre pubescent children? 2 very different things there.

I think this is very important.

There are many pedophiles out there who have never acted on it and never will, because they know it wrong to do so.

death1234567

Yeah she's right to some extent. By branding those people as evil and sick you send their behaviour underground and ensure that they are socially isolated and more likely to act on their bizarre desires. By allowing them to be monitored but live openly (while undergoing appropriate therapy/counselling) you are much more likely to reduce the chance of them offending. Also alot of paedo's were themselves abused as kids so by stopping them abusing you also stop a new generation of paedo's.

Of course rabble rabble rabble pitchforks, burn them all, rabble rabble rabble.

Thoughtform

Nobody "should" accept anything. This is one person - a student (I love how they use the term "scholar" to make it seem like she's an expert).

So the headline is designed to shock, although a behavioural psychologist refutes her claim that it's a sexual orientation.

Ipso

Maybe they can workshop the idea by having a local pedo babysit their children.

Ulysses Gaze

"Let me be very clear here. Abusing children is wrong without any doubt, but a pedophile who doesn't abuse children has done nothing wrong," Heine said, adding that pedophilia is just a preference to have sex with children.

Unless they have downloaded child pornography whereby they are doing something wrong and are encouraging the abuse of children.

What is this kite flying that we are seeing from certain elements of the Left around Paedophilia about?

It is incurable. Therapy and drugs have limited success.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Actually in the 70s there was a strong campaign to reduce or eliminate the age of consent by extreme leftwingers.

Particularly the French wombats.

Ulysses Gaze

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Actually in the 70s there was a strong campaign to reduce or eliminate the age of consent by extreme leftwingers.

Particularly the French wombats.

The Council for Civil Liberties in the UK were up to the same.

Several Labour party members, including Harriet Harman, were involved.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10659169/Harriet-Harman-admits-paedophile-group-joined-her-civil-liberties-group-in-the-1970s.html

WhiteMemento9

This clearly won't be accepted for obvious reasons but I really struggle with what we do with these people. People are not in control of what makes them hard, it is biology and whatever else goes into it. The disgust I understand. People have this sexual persuasion though and ignoring it isn't going to help us as a society deal with it.

Dravokivich

The issue isn't pedofilia, it's when it's acted on.

Or am I still a potential rapist?

WhiteMemento9

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

This doesn’t deserve to be discussed.

Aye, sweep it under the carpet. If we wish really hard it will all be OK. That has served us well with issues in Ireland's past.

ceadaoin.

I don't think it should be normalised by being accepted as just a harmless sexual orientation. It isn't. It's a paraphilia and any expression of it is extremely harmful to the victims and also to society.

It seems like there is a push in the media lately to normalise pedophilia and not any other paraphilias like bestiality. You'd have to wonder who/what is behind it.

WhiteMemento9

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I don't think it should be normalised by being accepted as just a harmless sexual orientation. It isn't. It's a paraphilia and any expression of it is extremely harmful to the victims and also to society.

It seems like there is a push in the media lately to normalise pedophilia and not any other paraphilias like bestiality. You'd have to wonder who/what is behind it.

This is completely incorrect and idiotic tbh. No one is trying to say it is harmless or normalise it. The point is that it exists and we do more harm than good by burying the heads in the sand about the problem that actually talking about it.

jaxxx

This is what happens when someone goes 'full retard'.

Seriously, I thought I heard it all but this f*cking takes the biscuit.

WhiteMemento9

jaxxx wrote: »

This is what happens when someone goes 'full retard'.

Seriously, I thought I heard it all but this f*cking takes the biscuit.

Instead of talking in riddles it would be nice if you actually contributed to the thread.

Omackeral

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

This doesn’t deserve to be discussed.

Not for one minute am I legitimising or advocating it. What I will say is that people said the exact same for interracial marriage 50 years ago, homosexuality 25 years ago and some still say it about transgender people now. Those previously unthinkable things have become the normalised now.

Who knows where we'll be down the line with pressure groups and -phobic tags and everything else.

Again, I'm stating I've nothing against interracial marriage or LGBT folks at all, only drawing a parrellel with conversations and mindsets changing as time goes on.

_Dara_

Well, I agree that a person’s sexual preferences can’t be changed unfortunately.

But a paedophile can’t and shouldn’t act on it. They just need to learn to ignore their perversion. If they want to seek help to cope, they should be helped. I’m sure many don’t want to feel that way.

jaxxx

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

Instead of talking in riddles it would be nice if you actually contributed to the thread.

I'd curb that self-appointed moderator schtick, it's not something that ever goes down well with actual moderators, on any forum.

Omackeral

Just to be clear. Don't diddle the kids.

WhiteMemento9

Omackeral wrote: »

Not for one minute am I legitimising or advocating it. What I will say is that people said the exact same for interracial marriage 50 years ago, homosexuality 25 years ago and some still say it about transgender people now. Those previously unthinkable things have become the normalised now.

Who knows where we'll be down the line with pressure groups and -phobic tags and everything else.

Again, I'm stating I've nothing against interracial marriage or LGBT folks at all, only drawing a parrellel with conversations and mindsets changing as time goes on.

This will never get normalised. I understand it is something we need to address but what consenting adults do is a completely different thing to what we allow to go on between an adult and a child. Things may have changed in terms of how accepting we are in terms of sexuality but I don't see how we ever reach a point that this should or is acceptable. There are no parallels to be drawn.

WhiteMemento9

jaxxx wrote: »

I'd curb that self-appointed moderator schtick, it's not something that ever goes down well with actual moderators, on any forum.

I asked for you to contribute to the conversation rather than talking in riddles without saying anything. No moderation. You take umbridge because you can't or won't express what you would like to say and talk in more riddles about some moderation thing. I hope you are better at expressing yourself IRL.

Omackeral

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

This will never get normalised. I understand it is something we need to address but what consenting adults do is a completely different thing to what we allow to go on between an adult and a child. Things may have changed in terms of how accepting we are in terms of sexuality but I don't see how we ever reach a point that this should or is acceptable. There are no parallels to be drawn.

I'm saying there's parallels to be drawn with mindsets and attitudes, in a general sense. If some bloke around 1950 came out and said "I identify as a woman" the community would have been gobsmacked. I reckon the thoughts of that being normalised and accepted in their lifetime would've been a stretch too. That's the point I'm making.

Ideas and thoughts from yesteryear that were unthinkable at the time are now gaining traction... or even just part of life now. Who's to say what will fly 50 years down the line. You could have people advocating that the pedophile identifies as something or other and people supporting it.

Ps definitely don't diddle the kids. Diddling kids is no good.

WhiteMemento9

Omackeral wrote: »

I'm saying there's parallels to be drawn with mindsets and attitudes, in a general sense. If some bloke around 1950 came out and said "I identify as a woman" they would have been gobsmacked. I reckon to the thoughts of that being normalised and accepted in their lifetime would've been a stretch too. That's the point I'm making.

Ideas and thoughts from yesteryear that were unthinkable at the time are now gaining traction... or even just part of life now. Who's to say what will fly 50 years down the line. You could have people advocating that the pedophile identifies as something or other and people supporting it.

Ps definitely don't diddle the kids. Diddling kids is no good.

They are all adults or personal decisions about ourselves as people though. In no way, is it even conceivable that an unformed person would ever be allowed to form a relationship with an adult that they clearly can't understand. I understand the point you are trying to make but think it is completely ill-conceived with regards to this issue.

Omackeral

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

They are all adults or personal decisions about ourselves as people though. In no way, is it even conceivable that an unformed person would ever be allowed to form a relationship with an adult that they clearly can't understand. I understand the point you are trying to make but think it is completely ill-conceived with regards to this issue.

Yep I know. Children are minors. That's proper order that it's inconceivable. All I'm saying is I'm sure there were people thinking that a man becoming a woman was inconceivable 50 years ago too.

WhiteMemento9

Omackeral wrote: »

Fair enough. I'm sure there were people thinking that a man becoming a woman was inconceivable 50 years ago too though.

It probably wasn't but at least it is either a personal choice that doesn't affect other people directly or an adult choice. That was just bigotry. It was never something that impinged on someone else directly other than the idiots who get offended by personal choice. A sexuality that is based on minors who are mentally incapable of having a relationship on that level is a completely different thing.

DivingDuck

I don't believe changing times will see an acceptance of this unless there is a complete overhaul of all our thinking on a number of levels.

In the last few hundred years, there has been a slow (but rapidly accelerating in recent decades) shift in ideology away from an approach where "use" of others was prioritised towards an approach where the rights of the individual are prioritised.

Years ago, it was perfectly okay for a man to abuse his wife because men were the head of the family, and that's how it was. It wasn't okay for that man to decide to become a wife, because that was unnatural. Now, it's fine for a man to become a woman, because he's an adult and he has the right to decide what happens to his (to be properly correct: her) body and how he presents himself to the world. It's not fine for him to abuse his wife, because she also has the right to decide what happens to her body.

They're very different things, but they're both supported by the same underlying concept: you have the right to decide what happens to you, and nobody else has the right to take that from you.

Pedophilia can never be accepted because it goes against this shift, not unless there's a radical re-thinking of who we are and what we want as a society. Conflating pedophilia, bestiality, and other paraphilias that violate the concept of consent and bodily autonomy to issues like acceptance of gender dysphoria isn't useful at all— the things we didn't used to accept that we now do are all accepted for the same reason, and that reason absolutely precludes these paraphilias which violate the principle of informed consent.

To say you are a pedophile is to say your primary sexual orientation is towards rape. At its basest level, that is what pedophilia has to be. Children can't consent to having sex— and even if we were to say they were (which I don't believe, let me point out), the majority of pedophiles have no interest in their consent, anyway. Have you ever heard anyone who survived childhood sexual abuse say that they wanted it, or were glad it happened? Their consent is not a priority for people who are afflicted with this desire, even if it could be given.

I don't really know what the "best" way to deal with people who feel that way but haven't acted on it is— I'm not a doctor, so I don't know how successful treatment is in preventing offending, but I don't think I would ever be comfortable with one because children are bloody everywhere and the opportunities to offend are constant. It just doesn't bear thinking about.

We can't accept or normalise this. Ever.

Omackeral

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

It probably wasn't but at least it is either a personal choice that doesn't affect other people directly or an adult choice. That was just bigotry. It was never something that impinged on someone else directly other than the idiots who get offended by personal choice.

Back in Wartime Europe, that progressive attitude would have landed someone steeply in the minority. That's my point entirely. You call people idiots for not recognising a man saying he's a woman. Back then, I reckon you'd have been looked at as the idiot. That's my solitary point here. That attitudes change extremely and sometimes absolutely. Nobody gave half as much a damn about "identifying" or "taking offence" in older times. You'd have been the outcast if that was the case.

silverharp

DivingDuck wrote: »

I don't believe changing times will see an acceptance of this unless there is a complete overhaul of all our thinking on a number of levels.

In the last few hundred years, there has been a slow (but rapidly accelerating in recent decades) shift in ideology away from an approach where "use" of others was prioritised towards an approach where the rights of the individual are prioritised.

Years ago, it was perfectly okay for a man to abuse his wife because men were the head of the family, and that's how it was. It wasn't okay for that man to decide to become a wife, because that was unnatural. Now, it's fine for a man to become a woman, because he's an adult and he has the right to decide what happens to his (to be properly correct: her) body and how he presents himself to the world. It's not fine for him to abuse his wife, because she also has the right to decide what happens to her body.

They're very different things, but they're both supported by the same underlying concept: you have the right to decide what happens to you, and nobody else has the right to take that from you.

Pedophilia can never be accepted because it goes against this shift, not unless there's a radical re-thinking of who we are and what we want as a society. Conflating pedophilia, bestiality, and other paraphilias that violate the concept of consent and bodily autonomy to issues like acceptance of gender dysphoria isn't useful at all— the things we didn't used to accept that we now do are all accepted for the same reason, and that reason absolutely precludes these paraphilias which violate the principle of informed consent.

To say you are a pedophile is to say your primary sexual orientation is towards rape. At its basest level, that is what pedophilia has to be. Children can't consent to having sex— and even if we were to say they were (which I don't believe, let me point out), the majority of pedophiles have no interest in their consent, anyway. Have you ever heard anyone who survived childhood sexual abuse say that they wanted it, or were glad it happened? Their consent is not a priority for people who are afflicted with this desire, even if it could be given.

I don't really know what the "best" way to deal with people who feel that way but haven't acted on it is— I'm not a doctor, so I don't know how successful treatment is in preventing offending, but I don't think I would ever be comfortable with one because children are bloody everywhere and the opportunities to offend are constant. It just doesn't bear thinking about.

We can't accept or normalise this. Ever.

you would think but if its trendy for a kid to consent to a sex change its not an atlantic ocean jump that they can consent to other fcked up stuff

BattleCorp

silverharp wrote: »

you would think but if its trendy for a kid to consent to a sex change its not an atlantic ocean jump that they can consent to other fcked up stuff

Good point.

i blame the parents

all of them, like

Cleopatra_

Well paedophiles can't help that they are attracted to children. I'm so glad I wasn't born with that attraction, knowing that if you ever act on it you'll be violating someone and also knowing you can't tell someone you have that attraction as you risk ostracism or worse. I have pity for paedophiles who don't act on their urges, it must be a lifelong battle.

Lollipops23

Cleopatra_ wrote: »

I have pity for paedophiles who don't act on their urges, it must be a lifelong battle.

I agree entirely. I have nothing but respect for someone struggling against these awful thoughts and urges, but seeks help and support in order to prevent them doing the unthinkable.

Society is going to need to have a grown up and unhysterical discourse about this sooner or later.

murpho999

jaxxx wrote: »

This is what happens when someone goes 'full retard'.

Seriously, I thought I heard it all but this f*cking takes the biscuit.

Did you actually read the article?

I think many here have not.

There is nothing controversial in what was said.

Basically saying that pedophiles should not be driven underground which makes them more likely to offend but they should not be isolated by society and helped.

She also states "Let me be very clear here. Abusing children is wrong without any doubt, but a pedophile who doesn't abuse children has done nothing wrong."

I really don't see anything controversial about that statement at all. Pedophilia is a problem that is simply not going to go away and it needs to be approached in a new way to prevent abuse imho.

Bandana boy

A few year back Germany changed its laws on treating people with Pedo tendencies .

the initial law had that any medical professional who had knowledge was required to report it to the police.
they changed the law meaning they could keep a patients confidentiality and opened clinics offering support and if requested Chemical treatment .
the amount of men availing of support was mindblowing ?
About 250K men sought treatment since program started , which is slightly over half of 1% of the population !!

These Men were of all ages and working in many fields and many were older men who had never offended.
The treatment gives them counselling on how to deal with the attraction without acting on it and in extreme cases offered Chemical castration to those who did not feel they could resist the temptation.

While there can be no quarter given to those who offend or fund pornography ,if a way of acknowledging the desires allows these men who are troubled to get help and avoid offending then we would be mad not to try.
Assuming there is not some massive difference between Ireland and Germany that would have over 20K men in Ireland struggling with this
At that rate its almost certainly somebody in your circle of friends and family

Malayalam

Whatever about there being some inborn predilection (nature) or perversion due to childhood trauma / abuse (nurture) how about the likelihood that such a desire is fueled by the massive increase in online child pornography? 70% of online child pornography is of abuse of children under 10. To view it is to ''buy'' it ie to feed the market that sells the abuse of children for profit. Yet less than 15% of people prosecuted for possession of child pornography receive a prison sentence, and if they do it is usually for less than one year. More serious cases go to the Circuit Court where they can receive a maximum of five years. To knowingly view or possess online child pornography should have very lengthy mandatory sentences. Given the incredible harm inherent in child pornography I have no idea why it already does not attract severe penalties, (or why sentences in incest cases can be so inconsequential.)

Bigbagofcans

I've read a few articles before where men are publicly outing themselves as 'non-offending paedophiles'.

Are they trying to normalise the condition while inevitably receiving a torrent of abuse from others?

suicide_circus

the last taboo

nozzferrahhtoo

Thoughtform wrote: »

So the headline is designed to shock

Pretty much that. Within the article itself they quote her position as:

"Let me be very clear here. Abusing children is wrong without any doubt, but a pedophile who doesn't abuse children has done nothing wrong"

and if that is her position then it is one I 100% agree with and see no problem with. Though Ulysses Gaze adds a useful caveat that under "abuse" we should include the facilitation of it by way of pornography use and so forth.

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I don't think it should be normalised by being accepted as just a harmless sexual orientation. It isn't. It's a paraphilia and any expression of it is extremely harmful to the victims and also to society.

I do not think accepting it or normalizing it by default means allowing expressions of it on actual victims. I doubt very much anyone is calling for that. The person the article is about certainly is not.

But take recent controversial research that suggests child sex dolls or CGI or otherwise simulated child porn actually reduces the tendency of such people to (re)offend. It is far from conclusive. But imagine it was shown to be true in the future.

Currently such porn and dolls are illegal. Such research would question whether that is the correct thing to do.

So one aspect of "normalizing" or "accepting" could potentially be, for example, accepting and building a market for such products.

Not saying IS, just using this as an example of the KIND of thing a process of acceptance could actually mean.

Grayson

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I don't think it should be normalised by being accepted as just a harmless sexual orientation. It isn't. It's a paraphilia and any expression of it is extremely harmful to the victims and also to society.

It seems like there is a push in the media lately to normalise pedophilia and not any other paraphilias like bestiality. You'd have to wonder who/what is behind it.

But there does seem to be different types.

For example there are some that are made. there are people who become abusers after being abused as a child. For many there's no sexual gratification from the abuse. Straight men who abuse boys for example. It had complicated motives involving power and pain.

There are others who appear to have a sexual attraction. Some will go on to abuse, some won't.

I do genuinely feel sorry for someone who feels that attraction but never acts on it. It's not something anyone would ever choose for themselves. I remember reading about a campaign in germany to get people like this to reach out for support. We should have something like that here.

ceadaoin.

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

But take recent controversial research that suggests child sex dolls or CGI or otherwise simulated child porn actually reduces the tendency of such people to (re)offend. It is far from conclusive. But imagine it was shown to be true in the future.

Currently such porn and dolls are illegal. Such research would question whether that is the correct thing to do.

So one aspect of "normalizing" or "accepting" could potentially be, for example, accepting and building a market for such products.

Not saying IS, just using this as an example of the KIND of thing a process of acceptance could actually mean.

What research was that? I thought it was inconclusive and there was also evidence that it could lead to offending? most of the men in the UK who were investigated for importing these dolls were also in possession of images of child abuse so personally, I feel that these dolls would be another escalation towards abuse for many and that would be unacceptable.

Malayalam

Sorry. ''Simulated child porn''. Does not compute.