Reporting ICEed charging points

the_amazing_raisin

Hi folks,

First off, just wanted to warn everyone that the 22kW stations in Clontarf DART station has been ICEed, van in the left hand bay and I saw a jeep pulling into the other bay just as I was leaving. Hopefully it's just a drop-off and at least one bay will be open soon.

Is there a thread active for reporting charging points as ICEed? Or another method I reported it on Plugshare too but not sure if everyone uses that?

Also, does anyone know whether charging points in train stations are for EV charging only, or are they relying on the "goodwill" of ICE drivers not to block them?

zilog_jones

You should report it to whoever is responsible for the parking spaces.

the_amazing_raisin

zilog_jones wrote: »

You should report it to whoever is responsible for the parking spaces.

Agreed but unfortunately that station is often not staffed.

troyzer

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Hi folks,

First off, just wanted to warn everyone that the 22kW stations in Clontarf DART station has been ICEed, van in the left hand bay and I saw a jeep pulling into the other bay just as I was leaving. Hopefully it's just a drop-off and at least one bay will be open soon.

Is there a thread active for reporting charging points as ICEed? Or another method I reported it on Plugshare too but not sure if everyone uses that?

Also, does anyone know whether charging points in train stations are for EV charging only, or are they relying on the "goodwill" of ICE drivers not to block them?

Just came across this on the front page of boards and I have to ask, why does being ICEed entail? Not familiar with the word.

ED E

Internal Combustion Engine.

ICED = Normal car in an EV spot. Most carparks have 10s to 100s of spaces but only 1-2 EV spaces so to plonk your petrol/diesel there is being a right tit.

Ideally APCOA and NCPS should be handling this but it appears they care as much as disabled bay abusers (not at all).

the_amazing_raisin

troyzer wrote: »

Just came across this on the front page of boards and I have to ask, why does being ICEed entail? Not familiar with the word.

ICE = Internal Combustion Engine

Being ICEed is when a petrol or diesel vehicle parks in an electric vehicle charging space, thereby blocking electric cars from charging (which given the range limitations of some vehicles can be quite frustrating)

Generally it's done by accident or ignorance on the ICE drivers part and hopefully they'll move their car when they see an EV (electric vehicle) waiting to charge. However there have been cases of it being done maliciously to annoy or upset EV owners.

the_amazing_raisin

ED E wrote: »

Internal Combustion Engine.

ICED = Normal car in an EV spot. Most carparks have 10s to 100s of spaces but only 1-2 EV spaces so to plonk your petrol/diesel there is being a right tit.

Ideally APCOA and NCPS should be handling this but it appears they care as much as disabled bay abusers (not at all).

Part of the problem is the ambiguity over whether ICE vehicles are allowed into EV spaces. I looked at the signs beside the charger and while they say "Electric vehicle charging" they don't specifically forbid ICE cars from parking there. Hence my earlier questions regarding the rules about this behaviour.

Shefwedfan

troyzer wrote: »

Just came across this on the front page of boards and I have to ask, why does being ICEed entail? Not familiar with the word.

Don't mind all the acroynms.

ICEed means a parking spot designated for an electric/Plugin hybridcar to charge is used by a standard petrol/diesel car.

The parking spot is normally painted green on the tarmac

NIMAN

Is it braking any laws though to park an ICE in an eV spot?

I'd say probably not.

You're being an ass, but don't think you can be fined for it

the_amazing_raisin

NIMAN wrote: »

Is it braking any laws though to park an ICE in an eV spot?

I'd say probably not.

You're being an ass, but don't think you can be fined for it

Well ultimately it's up to the car park owners, if it's private land then they can make the rules. I haven't seen any that specifically forbid ICE cars so I'm guessing it's legit. Also I'd say most car park owners don't really care as it's not a big enough problem yet.

Public spaces are run by county councils so they might be more clear cut, but again I haven't seen anything specifically forbidding ICEing

Shefwedfan

NIMAN wrote: »

Is it braking any laws though to park an ICE in an eV spot?

I'd say probably not.

You're being an ass, but don't think you can be fined for it

Depends on car park. Blanchardstown Shopping Centre will clamp, not sure of cost to remove

Long term I would expect all car parks to provide a clamping service

But not just for petrol/diesel cars but also for people abondoning cars at fast chargers.

the_amazing_raisin

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Depends on car park. Blanchardstown Shopping Centre will clamp, not sure of cost to remove

Long term I would expect all car parks to provide a clamping service

But not just for petrol/diesel cars but also for people abondoning cars at fast chargers.

They'll fix the fast charger issues when they bring in paid charging (and it's coming, no doubt about it). They should bring in a 'connected' fee that ticks up every minute that your car is connected and not charging.

That's for the future though, when EVs are the majority, for now I think we'll just have to settle for yelling at each other in car parks :-D

the_amazing_raisin

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Depends on car park. Blanchardstown Shopping Centre will clamp, not sure of cost to remove

Long term I would expect all car parks to provide a clamping service

But not just for petrol/diesel cars but also for people abondoning cars at fast chargers.

Is there much of a problem with DC camping in blanch? I've been there once to charge and while it was busy (actually the busiest one I've seen) there didn't seem to be much messing going on, folks seemed to be moving their cars reasonably quickly after they were done on the DC charger

liamog

There are one or two regulars who DC camp in Blanch

Gumbo

NIMAN wrote: »

Is it braking any laws though to park an ICE in an eV spot?

I'd say probably not.

You're being an ass, but don't think you can be fined for it

Blanch will clamp.
Dublin City Clampers will clamp or remove on the streets of Dublin.

Shefwedfan

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Is there much of a problem with DC camping in blanch? I've been there once to charge and while it was busy (actually the busiest one I've seen) there didn't seem to be much messing going on, folks seemed to be moving their cars reasonably quickly after they were done on the DC charger

Loads of it, mostly as a shopping centre is not a great location for a fast charger. 5 mins around the cornor at the Maxol filling station should be the location for the fast charger

Really Blanch should have 10-20 slow chargers. So people head off and do shopping and can slowly charge. At the moment you have people who hook up to fast charger and head off shopping....

Shefwedfan

liamog wrote: »

There are one or two regulars who DC camp in Blanch

The sooner people start to ring the clampers the better.....at present most just post into facebook groups but it is not stopping people.....

Fines and clamping will soon stop it

Silent Running

My local council ticket ICE cars in charging bays. They are very strict about it and the bays are now seldom ICE'd

fricatus

Silent Running wrote: »

My local council ticket ICE cars in charging bays. They are very strict about it and the bays are now seldom ICE'd

Fair play to them. Where’s that? (Guessing not Dublin, based on my experience there...)

DrPhilG

NIMAN wrote: »

Is it braking any laws though to park an ICE in an eV spot?

I'd say probably not.

You're being an ass, but don't think you can be fined for it

Derry are very good for it.  You'll never see the Diamond blocked by an ICE if it's during traffic warden hours.

ELM327

NIMAN wrote: »

Is it braking any laws though to park an ICE in an eV spot?

I'd say probably not.

You're being an ass, but don't think you can be fined for it

In the south, you are breaking the law by parking in a defined and marked EV bay and not a plug in car.


However, it is left to the local authority to mark the bays in a way that meets the description in the SI (see attached)

ElKavo

kceire wrote: »

Blanch will clamp.
Dublin City Clampers will clamp or remove on the streets of Dublin.

I actually saw a ICE being clamped in town yesterday while parked in a charge spot. I was happy to see this.

Dardania

ELM327 wrote: »

NIMAN wrote: »

Is it braking any laws though to park an ICE in an eV spot?

I'd say probably not.

You're being an ass, but don't think you can be fined for it

In the south, you are breaking the law by parking in a defined and marked EV bay and not a plug in car.


However, it is left to the local authority to mark the bays in a way that meets the description in the SI (see attached)

Ireland (the Republic) are great at having rules and regulations, but shocking at implementing them

ELM327

Dardania wrote: »

Ireland (the Republic) are great at having rules and regulations, but shocking at implementing them

Agreed completely
However they do clamp in DCC


I even saw a funny photo on plugshare of one of the Dublin SCP, 2 Tesla charging at it and both were clamped

creedp

ELM327 wrote: »

Agreed completely
However they do clamp in DCC


I even saw a funny photo on plugshare of one of the Dublin SCP, 2 Tesla charging at it and both were clamped

Seen a Tesla clamped on an SCP near Merrion SQ a couple of days back. I'm wondering what would happen if you were sitting in your EV while getting a top up charge and the clampers arrive .. would you be placed in EV arrest and then clamped!!

Calahonda52

kceire wrote: »

Blanch will clamp.
Dublin City Clampers will clamp or remove on the streets of Dublin.

have you a number for these chaps/lassies? : [Bay City Rollers ]

the_amazing_raisin

creedp wrote: »

ELM327 wrote: »

Agreed completely
However they do clamp in DCC


I even saw a funny photo on plugshare of one of the Dublin SCP, 2 Tesla charging at it and both were clamped

Seen a Tesla clamped on an SCP near Merrion SQ a couple of days back. I'm wondering what would happen if you were sitting in your EV while getting a top up charge and the clampers arrive .. would you be placed in EV arrest and then clamped!!

It's worth mentioning that DCC still charge for parking in charging bays, whereas most councils gives EVs a free charging period. I almost got stung with this myself once parking in the city, luckily decided to check up on the rules beforehand.

cros13

cruisey1987 wrote: »

It's worth mentioning that DCC still charge for parking in charging bays, whereas most councils gives EVs a free charging period. I almost got stung with this myself once parking in the city, luckily decided to check up on the rules beforehand.

The big issue is the border between DLR and Dublin City.... One charges and one doesn't but two charging spaces on the border are split down the middle.

the_amazing_raisin

Shefwedfan wrote: »

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Is there much of a problem with DC camping in blanch? I've been there once to charge and while it was busy (actually the busiest one I've seen) there didn't seem to be much messing going on, folks seemed to be moving their cars reasonably quickly after they were done on the DC charger

Loads of it, mostly as a shopping centre is not a great location for a fast charger. 5 mins around the cornor at the Maxol filling station should be the location for the fast charger

Really Blanch should have 10-20 slow chargers. So people head off and do shopping and can slowly charge. At the moment you have people who hook up to fast charger and head off shopping....

I agree that DC charging should really be reserved for petrol stations and AC is more suited to shopping centres, hotels, etc. where you'll likely be parked for a while.
I'd imagine this would actually appeal to center owners, since it might force shoppers to stay for 2-3 hours instead of 30 mins.
Honestly, I think the only way to solve DC camping is to start charging for it. And they should charge by the time connected, to stop people from leaving the car connected after it's done charging. It's bad but it is a premium service compared to AC charging, which they could keep free for the foreseeable future.
Unfortunately that creates a major problem for people in rented houses or apartments/houses without driveways who can't get a home charger.

the_amazing_raisin

cros13 wrote: »

The big issue is the border between DLR and Dublin City.... One charges and one doesn't but two charging spaces on the border are split down the middle.

You mean one bay of the same sits in DCC and another is in DLR?

cros13

cruisey1987 wrote: »

You mean one bay of the same sits in DCC and another is in DLR?

In one case it's one of the two bays... in another the bay was drawn split by the boundary and has both the DCC and DLR parking signs next to it.

the_amazing_raisin

cros13 wrote: »

In one case it's one of the two bays... in another the bay was drawn split by the boundary and has both the DCC and DLR parking signs next to it.

Haha, wow I've got to see this! Can you remember which one is split?

Silent Running

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I agree that DC charging should really be reserved for petrol stations and AC is more suited to shopping centres, hotels, etc. where you'll likely be parked for a while.
I'd imagine this would actually appeal to center owners, since it might force shoppers to stay for 2-3 hours instead of 30 mins.
Honestly, I think the only way to solve DC camping is to start charging for it. And they should charge by the time connected, to stop people from leaving the car connected after it's done charging. It's bad but it is a premium service compared to AC charging, which they could keep free for the foreseeable future.
Unfortunately that creates a major problem for people in rented houses or apartments/houses without driveways who can't get a home charger.

How does charging for DC chargers create a major problem for those without home charging? They would just have to pay for the electricity they use, just the same as anyone with a home charger would. Maybe a little more, but shouldn't be a major problem.

liamog

DC Charging at 35c/kWh gives comparable cost for cars with their ICE counterpart.
So long as the amount is kept lower than that, people without home chargers will be ok.

This is of course dependent on the planned inflexion point at $100/kWh battery price, where the upfront cost of an EV should match the upfront cost of an ICE.

unkel

Silent Running wrote: »

How does charging for DC chargers create a major problem for those without home charging? They would just have to pay for the electricity they use, just the same as anyone with a home charger would. Maybe a little more, but shouldn't be a major problem.

+1

Even if you can only charge at public chargers and even if they charge 3 times as much as you pay for your home day time electricity, that's still 40% cheaper than diesel (€4.70 per 100km vs €7.80)

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

+1

Even if you can only charge at public chargers and even if they charge 3 times as much as you pay for your home day time electricity, that's still 40% cheaper than diesel (€4.70 per 100km vs €7.80)

The problem is though, are you willing to wait for a half hour every day to save 3.10? I wouldnt.

creedp

unkel wrote: »

+1

Even if you can only charge at public chargers and even if they charge 3 times as much as you pay for your home day time electricity, that's still 40% cheaper than diesel (€4.70 per 100km vs €7.80)

Could have a tiered charging system with a premium applied to DC charging over public AC charging which would encourage people to use AC charging wherever suitable and freeing up DC charging for those who need a quick charge.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

The problem is though, are you willing to wait for a half hour every day to save 3.10? I wouldnt.

With a 64kWh battery and an Irish average of 16k km per year, you would have to fill up once every 10 days. And the saving per charge would be €15

But granted charging at home costs €0.80 per 100km, 90% cheaper than diesel and you don't even have to wait around for the charge like you would with old skool dino juice :cool:

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

With a 64kWh battery and an Irish average of 16k km per year, you would have to fill up once every 10 days. And the saving per charge would be €15

But granted charging at home costs €0.80 per 100km, 90% cheaper than diesel :cool:

With 120km (80% motorway) each day, I'd probably get 3 days per 1 hour charge. At the weekends I drive a lot, probably 200km each day.
So that's one charge on a sunday evening to 95%, which covers monday-wednesday work commute. Then wednesday evening I charge to 95% again which covers thursday and friday and saturday. Then I have to charge again to cover sunday before topping up for the week on sunday.


Now I know I'm an edge case in terms of annual miles but it's for people like me that stand to save the most - both in fuel cost and maintenance, and also in emissions.



I just checked and I've done 1k km per week since I've gotten the Ioniq.:eek:

cros13

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Haha, wow I've got to see this! Can you remember which one is split?

AFAIR it was on Clonskeagh road near the Dodder bridge. Can't find it on the map any more... they may have removed it since.

FriendsEV

Pity no app is out that tells you if charge point is in use

Or do we have one?

cros13

FriendsEV wrote: »

Pity no app is out that tells you if charge point is in use

Or do we have one?

Both eCars own app and Zap-map do, the issue is that with single or dual port chargers by the time you get to the charger/chargepoint it could be full. The i3's Nav also gets chargepoint data from *somewhere* that sometimes shows chargepoint in use or not.

ELM327

FriendsEV wrote: »

Pity no app is out that tells you if charge point is in use

Or do we have one?

We have 3, all of which give some data but there is no "one true source" that is completely reliable


Plugshare - Great but not enough users in Ireland
Zap Map - Newish but better than the ecars app for usage stats
ecars app - Official app. Useless as the data is delayed and they don't mark the chargers as offline

Del2005

ELM327 wrote: »

In the south, you are breaking the law by parking in a defined and marked EV bay and not a plug in car.


However, it is left to the local authority to mark the bays in a way that meets the description in the SI (see attached)

That statute doesn't mention plug in. My hybrid meets b criteria and if I put a solar charger in it it'll be charging.

the_amazing_raisin

ELM327 wrote: »

The problem is though, are you willing to wait for a half hour every day to save 3.10? I wouldnt.

+1

If it takes more than 6:30 minutes to save a euro then you're earning below the minimum wage.

However, I'm guessing he was giving an extreme example, the hope is that the cost of DC charging would be low enough not to wipe out the savings of an EV, while still being high enough to discourage camping

Again though, I think the cost should be per minute and not per kWh, to stop people from charging for 30 mins then leaving their car plugged in for 2 hours

cros13

Del2005 wrote: »

That statute doesn't mention plug in. My hybrid meets b criteria and if I put a solar charger in it it'll be charging.

That's nice... the wardens use whether it's plugged in or not as the determining factor... So good luck with that argument when you appeal.

the_amazing_raisin

ELM327 wrote: »

With 120km (80% motorway) each day, I'd probably get 3 days per 1 hour charge. At the weekends I drive a lot, probably 200km each day.
So that's one charge on a sunday evening to 95%, which covers monday-wednesday work commute. Then wednesday evening I charge to 95% again which covers thursday and friday and saturday. Then I have to charge again to cover sunday before topping up for the week on sunday.


Now I know I'm an edge case in terms of annual miles but it's for people like me that stand to save the most - both in fuel cost and maintenance, and also in emissions.



I just checked and I've done 1k km per week since I've gotten the Ioniq.:eek:

Wait, that works out as 360km range per charge. The ioniq has a range of 280km per nedc, which is basically unachievable.

How are you managing that, are you charging in work as well? Or did I read your math wrong?

ELM327

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Wait, that works out as 360km range per charge. The ioniq has a range of 280km per nedc, which is basically unachievable.

How are you managing that, are you charging in work as well? Or did I read your math wrong?

No I'm saying if I bought a Kona.

the_amazing_raisin

ELM327 wrote: »

No I'm saying if I bought a Kona.

Ah okay, I get you now.

Out of curiosity, what range are you getting from the ioniq?

I reckon my leaf 24kw will get about 120km, if I'm kamikaze driving all the way to 0%. I wonder how much further the ioniq will go.

ELM327

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Ah okay, I get you now.

Out of curiosity, what range are you getting from the ioniq?

I reckon my leaf 24kw will get about 120km, if I'm kamikaze driving all the way to 0%. I wonder how much further the ioniq will go.

I had a leaf 24kWh, did 60k km in it in 12-13 months or so. I struggled to get more than 110km out of it without really babying it. I had to drive everywhere at "leafspeed" (100km/h indicated).


The Ioniq does 200km in the real world without babying it. I do 120-130km/h approx early morning on the way in to work with the LKAS and active cruise on, and my range is easily 175km-190km depending on AC use.

It's really a class ahead of the leaf, I never look at the percentage remaining - only the gom and the consumption figures. I did a 600km trip with 3 stops, unheard of for my leaf, where I stopped 9/10 times for a similar trip due to bad charger placement.

Oh and I've hit turtle mode once, which comes on with ~5% remaining, it was a horrible experience so I never include that 5% in my calculations!

There's a great thread on the Ioniq here and a lot of owners, it certainly helped me make up my mind.

creedp

cruisey1987 wrote: »

+1

If it takes more than 6:30 minutes to save a euro then you're earning below the minimum wage.

However, I'm guessing he was giving an extreme example, the hope is that the cost of DC charging would be low enough not to wipe out the savings of an EV, while still being high enough to discourage camping

Again though, I think the cost should be per minute and not per kWh, to stop people from charging for 30 mins then leaving their car plugged in for 2 hours

The problem with that approach is that it discriminates against cars that have a lower charging speed and also people who use older/lower powered chargers.