Often becomes easy when the easy is often..

scotindublin

I am only jealous C and you already know that I believe the world is your oyster when it comes to your running......bags of potential and the right attitude there to go as far (or as quick) as you want.

C

Lazare wrote: »

Oh it's definitely correct. Was just looking at my stats on Connect last night and my weight was in as 61kg, from the time I set it up.

I am v conscious of not letting it drop further, I now know exactly how many calories I need to consume. Need some better habits though, things like always having food nearby, in the van. Have been caught out a few times with work.

Thing is though, I eat like a hippo. Have a voracious appetite. Every single night after a big dinner I'm raiding the presses for chocolate, creme eggs the current obsession

Thing is though, with the right aerobic work and lean muscle building over the next few years my weight should be a huge advantage to me.

Lazare

Ah cheers C

Murph_D

OOnegative wrote: »

57.37kgs!!!

I thought I was a skinny fecker!

Lazare

Murph_D wrote: »

I thought I was a skinny fecker!

Funny, I missed your post in the RRQ thread until last night, could relate so much. You're right about that thread, it's good and all but the topic changes a little too quickly. Would have liked to chat more about it but felt it had moved on.

Lazare

Rest as per usual on Mon bu that Stormy Sunday took the wind out of my sails so much that I decided to rest Tue too.

Wed 12th Feb: Wed was my Beacon consultation, had 9m on the schedule (Tue's run) and planned to head to the PP after the appointment. Took the day off work. Consultation lasted longer than I thought it would, promised my wife we'd have the afternoon so ended up squeezing in only a little over 5 miles. HR 135, 5:28/km

Thurs 13th Feb: I knew I needed mileage this week so Wed was disappointing, but to add to it I had to be in work an hour earlier than normal on Thurs to give a presentation. Didn't fancy getting up at 5am so decided to double. Ran 3.5 miles before work and 5 miles that night.

The night run was a mad one. Left the house and pushed go. Normally the HR is in the low 100s for the first couple of hundred metres, slowly getting up to 125 or so by 1k. This was reading 136 from the get go. Just got around the corner and it was reading 150, 5 beats above threshold. Wtf?. I stopped. Let it settle. Normally it will drop to about 80 but it wouldn't drop below 110.
I had some mild cold symptoms that morning, figured that's what it must be. Set off again and zoom, straight up to 150 odd. I was jogging.
Stopped again to try bring it down. Same thing.
I was running at 6:30 kms and it was reading close to max hr. My head was wrecked.

After about 4 miles I stopped again but decided to try switch to the wrist monitor to see if it was the strap. The watch froze. Stood there for about 5 mins trying to get it back to life. Eventually it woke up and I ran. HR was normal then. So weird. It was still acting up (the watch) when I got home, wouldn't upload, froze again. I gave the strap a good scrub thinking that might be the issue. Crappy run.

Fri 14th Feb AM: Was anxious to get out again and compare against the previous night's run. 6m aerobic. 5:40/km, 125 bpm

Fri 14th Feb PM: Another double, albeit just a little one. Went out for 2 miles for the sole reason of comparing like for like with the previous night. Thankfully all was normal, 5:36/km, 130 bpm. Seems it was just my watch going a bit loopy. Thankfully.

Sat Feb 15th. 9m aerobic on the plan. Headed to Corkagh parkrun. Ran that plus another couple of laps, really fooking windy. Quads felt a little tired on this one which is rare. 5:38/km, 134 bpm.

Sun Feb 16th. 12 mile endurance. Can I not get one bleedin weekend without a hurricane?

Actually, it wasn't that bad for the most part. Decided to split it up into 5k blocks. First 5k at 130, 2nd 135, 3rd 140 and the last 3 miles or so at 145 (threshold).

Felt myself really needing to hold back on the first 5k. When the time came to up the effort I was beginning a long downhill stretch so I needed to put the foot down. The 135 section was a good 45 secs per km faster because of it.

Felt really comfortable at 140, felt I could run all day at that effort, felt amazing actually. Ramped it up then to threshold for the last (almost) 3 miles. Storm came in hard then. Was mad windy up until then but now it was driving sideways rain. I wasn't too far from the van at that point so decided to grab the rain jacket.
Paused the watch, fumbled around with the jacket getting it on and by the time I did and set off again Denis was gone, wrecking the day at Dublin bay.
Got the HR back up to 145 quickly enough and felt strong for a mile or so. Started to fatigue then, HR crept up a little too much too often. Spent the last mile battling with it.

Great run though, felt really awesome after it.

I haven't checked yet but I think that was my longest week.

Total mileage: 43.51

Lazare

So it's time to start thinking of a target race. I've two weeks left of base. A 12 week block leaves me race ready May 24th.

Got onto Ruco last night and found a couple of options that I'm hoping you fine folk can help guide me with.

So obv the focus is a half, but I would really love to race Bob Heffernan too. BH is May 19th (my birthday )

There's a half in Clondalkin May 24th, Fastlane Half Marathon. Small field of about 350 last year but it claims to be flat, a quick look at the profile suggests it is.

If I book that I'm not racing BH.

Another option is to add one more week of base on and book Cork for May 31st.

That will allow me race BH (I think, again looking for advice on that), and it's a much larger field which is a plus for me. I love large crowd races. Not sure of the course profile, will need to look into it, but a bigger driver for me is the possibility of racing both.

What do you guys think?

(am posting on my lunch break so forgive me if I don't respond until this evening)

AuldManKing

2 different types of race with different training structures needed.

I dont know much about the Fastlane half but Bob H is a great race - done it last year for the 1st time and loved it - have it pencilled in again.

I do think 12 weeks is too long to train for a 5k though!

Laineyfrecks

Lazare wrote: »

So it's time to start thinking of a target race. I've two weeks left of base. A 12 week block leaves me race ready May 24th.

Got onto Ruco last night and found a couple of options that I'm hoping you fine folk can help guide me with.

So obv the focus is a half, but I would really love to race Bob Heffernan too. BH is May 19th (my birthday )

There's a half in Clondalkin May 24th, Fastlane Half Marathon. Small field of about 350 last year but it claims to be flat, a quick look at the profile suggests it is.

If I book that I'm not racing BH.

Another option is to add one more week of base on and book Cork for May 31st.

That will allow me race BH (I think, again looking for advice on that), and it's a much larger field which is a plus for me. I love large crowd races. Not sure of the course profile, will need to look into it, but a bigger driver for me is the possibility of racing both.

What do you guys think?

(am posting on my lunch break so forgive me if I don't respond until this evening)

I am also looking at BH once Bohermeen is done! And as it's the day after my birthday we can celebrate both our birthdays at it with cake hopefully:D

I was initially supposed to run the fastlane half last year and had a free spot as it's partly organised by my job but it was too close to the marathon (29th Sept)to race! I heard afterwards it is quite a good course, 2 loops of the 10k. I know a few in work got PB's in it so they were happy overall.

Lazare

AuldManKing wrote: »

2 different types of race with different training structures needed.

I dont know much about the Fastlane half but Bob H is a great race - done it last year for the 1st time and loved it - have it pencilled in again.

I do think 12 weeks is too long to train for a 5k though!

Sorry A, I wasn't clear. I'm targeting the half, just would like to give BH a burst too. I'll likely do a 5k specific session or two beforehand, but all focus will be on the half.

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

I am also looking at BH once Bohermeen is done! And as it's the day after my birthday we can celebrate both our birthdays at it with cake hopefully:D

I was initially supposed to run the fastlane half last year and had a free spot as it's partly organised by my job but it was too close to the marathon (29th Sept)to race! I heard afterwards it is quite a good course, 2 loops of the 10k. I know a few in work got PB's in it so they were happy overall.

Haha, cool. We can have cake

I do like the look of Fastlane alright, but I really loved BH last year, was on such a buzz after it.

Just couldn't do it that close to the target, if the target is Fastlane.

Laineyfrecks

I've been told i make some really good lemon/salted caramel Cucakes... No better time to bake cakes than birthdays:D

Lazare

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

I've been told i make some really good lemon/salted caramel Cucakes... No better time to bake cakes than birthdays:D

Oh yeah!! Can't wait to try them.

I'll bring the sambos. For Sean.

Laineyfrecks

Lazare wrote: »

Oh yeah!! Can't wait to try them.

I'll bring the sambos. For Sean.

Hahaha he'll love that

We can have a joint birthday party BYOB style

scotindublin

BH has the makings of another Boards get together this year!

Damo 2k9

I think you answered your own question C, Cork seems to be the way to go. It allows you to give BH a good whack as well as the half distance, and is your preferred style of race with the larger crowds.

Will be at BH myself all going well - cake and a boards meetup sounds too good to pass up!

Lazare

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

I think you answered your own question C, Cork seems to be the way to go. It allows you to give BH a good whack as well as the half distance, and is your preferred style of race with the larger crowds.

Will be at BH myself all going well - cake and a boards meetup sounds too good to pass up!

Cheers Damo I think you're right. That will be the plan so.

BH is a really great race.

ariana`

AuldManKing wrote: »

2 different types of race with different training structures needed.

I dont know much about the Fastlane half but Bob H is a great race - done it last year for the 1st time and loved it - have it pencilled in again.

I do think 12 weeks is too long to train for a 5k though!

Interested to hear more on this?

Lazare

ariana` wrote: »

Interested to hear more on this?

Yeah, interesting. I did a 12 week plan for BH last year.

Swashbuckler

Don't listen to him. He's an endurance monster and is a little soft when it comes to the the pain of the 5k specific sessions

All joking aside, it depends in the type of runner you are. People like AMK spend a lot of the year building up a big endurance base, lots of tempo stuff, strides and Hill sprints so there's a big base of the elements needed for the 5k already. He can transition reasonably quickly into the remaining elements needed. However if you're starting from less of a base then it will take longer. In my opinion.

Lazare

That makes a lot of sense.

I actually did 20 weeks prep for it last year including base.
Definitely needed it.

Murph_D

Lazare wrote: »

That makes a lot of sense.
A
I actually did 20 weeks prep for it last year including base.
Definitely needed it.

And you got your reward. It was some race last year alright, a feast of PBs. Will probably sign up again too.

AuldManKing

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Don't listen to him. He's an endurance monster and is a little soft when it comes to the the pain of the 5k specific sessions

All joking aside, it depends in the type of runner you are. People like AMK spend a lot of the year building up a big endurance base, lots of tempo stuff, strides and Hill sprints so there's a big base of the elements needed for the 5k already. He can transition reasonably quickly into the remaining elements needed. However if you're starting from less of a base then it will take longer. In my opinion.

Oh stop talking such sense will you

Seriously though - my comment was based on the fact that you are currently base building and also the intensity of training for a 5k for so long.

I'll caveat my opinion by saying that if you are doing race specific stuff then 12 would be too long with that much intensity.
I done an 8 week plan for Jingle Bells and was wrecked from it and ran poorly. A couple more weeks of it and my body would have broken down.

If its a non race specific plan, then maybe 12 weeks may be optimal.

Or maybe theres the fact that it was due to my plan being 8 weeks and not 12 that I ran poorly!!

Lazare

Aha, interesting.

Had I not switched to the half I most likely would have targeted BH again but used the higher mileage 12 week plan from FRR.

Am assuming 12 weeks for a half is about right?

Murph_D

I did 12 weeks (Fitzgerald) last year pre-BH and had a PB. Year before, also 12 weeks (Pfitz) and poor race. 29 secs difference!

Not a huge sample to deduce from, and the weakest link is probably me.

Bottom line, no one knows anything.

Lazare

Tue Feb 18 - 8m aerobic, 5:44km, 125bpm. Wet wet wet. First rainy morning in a long time which on reflection is a bit strange. Although wet mornings were like busses this week.

Wed Feb 19 - Previous day's run was supposed to be 9 miles but woke up a little late, this one was 4 so did 5 to keep the mileage in check. 5 miles aerobic, 5:32km, 124 bpm. Soaked to the bone again.

Thurs Feb 20 - 8m with 22min tempo mixed in. Asked a tempo question in the random thread and took KSU's advice and ran the tempo bit just at or below threshold. Felt really strong for the stuff section, I think I'm going to love half training.
An interesting thing from it, km six matched up pretty much exactly with my Beacon test. A flat km, 145bpm and I was 3 seconds outside what I ran on the treadmill that day. 4:36 pace that day, 4:39 for that km. In the wind and rain I was happy with that.
Incredible rain on this one. I turned left onto the edge of the Naas road at 6:30am and got hit with the most amazing deluge. Massive monsoon style raindrops hammering off my hood, coming straight down, and the swirling rain dust from the trucks like cold steam. The noise, the dark, the violence of it. I never felt more alive. Adore running in the rain.

Wanted to run Friday but decided to follow orders and rest, a return of my tendon pain will break my heart.

Sat 22 Feb - 9m aerobic on the plan. Got a message from an online friend of mine on Fri night about a meetup at Corkagh. We'd been trying to get together for a while. Hadn't seen him in the flesh in over a decade. Was a little worried the mileage might suffer as couldn't just say 'good luck, see ya' after parkrun. Thankfully he was up for another soft lap. Got a couple of km in before we met and ended up doing about 8.5m total. We decided to run parkrun at around 5 min kms, ran it a touch faster than that.
With a km to go I said feck it and asked him did he want to burst it. He was happy to and we took off. Jesus it felt good.
Ran the last km at 18:20 pace for my fastest 1k. It's a fast km anyway with a bit of a decline but gave me a good boost.

Sun 23 Feb - 12m endurance on the plan. Decided to make it vanilla (copyright AMK) due to the little bit of hard effort from parkrun, am very cautious with the tendon.
Set out with a plan of keeping the effort in the low 130s HR. First km beeped in at 5:10 and this is where the beauty of HR training comes in. If I was guided by pace I would have sh1t myself here and dialled it back. I'm running faster than I would have been, at the correct effort level. Without the monitor I would have felt in danger running that pace and would have slowed down.
It was a great run, felt so solid throughout, conversation pace that not long ago was hard effort. The training is working, am feeling the improvement.
Ran that distance in Jan and the stats were 5:42km at 140bpm. Today it was 5:14 at 133. I do understand there are variables at play with HR but I'm very happy with that.

Another enjoyable couple of weeks of base ahead, then I'm so looking forward to horsing into a half block. Still unsure about the approach. To be coached or not to be..

Total miles for the week - 41.9

Swashbuckler

Lazare wrote:

Another enjoyable couple of weeks of base ahead, then I'm so looking forward to horsing into a half block. Still unsure about the approach. To be coached or not to be..

Is the option of one to one coaching available to you? Apologies I can't recall.

Lazare

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Is the option of one to one coaching available to you? Apologies I can't recall.

Yeah, the guy I did the Beacon testing with has offered. It will be over Training Peaks, online, he's offered me 4 weeks free. Although I'm either going with him or I'm not. Won't take the 4 weeks if I'm not. Can hardly say 'yeah that's working great, I'm cancelling now'.

It's mostly about whether I can afford it and also whether I want the pressure, as I talked about with you a couple of weeks ago. He's good, and it will work, that's not in doubt.

SuspectZero

12 weeks can be too long or too short, the length is a small factor, it's the meaty bit that makes the difference

12 weeks specific- too long and overcooked
12 weeks base- undercooked
12 weeks w/ 4-5 weeks strength/ 5-6 weeks specific + taper- pretty decent
24 weeks w/ 12 week base/4-5 strength/ 5-6 weeks specific- very good
3 years with multiple progressive phases of the above- lets get a rockin and run some pb's

phases are more important than the length of a training cycle more often than not, if you do it right, you should be never physically overcooked, mentally focusing on a race for a long period of time can be hard though. I dont know about FRR so wont comment but if the make up is ok, 12 weeks, it should be just fine.

Lazare

Excellent stuff. Thanks, appreciate it v much.

Kinda thought though with half training it was all about increasing the threshold. Is it possible to overcook in that regard, assuming you're being sensible with recovery?

This time last year the focus was the 5k, and I can definitely see merit in spending too much time on specificity at that distance causing overcooking.

Lazare

Usual rest on Mon.

Tue Feb 25 - 10m aerobic. Juicy one for a Tue morn before work, 5:40am alarm, standard 10 min snooze and out the door a little after 6.
5:33km av, 125bpm.

I've a route that I normally take for a run like this. Through Citywest business park, into Kingswood and out onto the N7 bridge at Corkagh park. The turnaround is usually around here. I decided on a whim to head by Citywest shopping centre up towards Fettercairn instead.
I would have been running through Kingswood in and around the time that lunatic murdered that poor guy.
I heard the news report on the 1 O'Clock news and got an immediate shiver. At that point the thinking was she just stabbed the first person she came across. Later it was thought it was over a parking spot, but it reverted back to it being a totally random attack.
Whenever I run through there at that time of the morning I'm usually the only person around. It happened at the entrance to the estate. I run right by there, within feet of it. Poor guy.

Wed Feb 26 - 5m aerobic. 5:53km, 120bpm. No drama on this one, actually can't remember much about it. Took it lemon squeezy according to Strava.

Thurs Feb 27 - 8m with strides on the plan but had to head to The Netherlands for work. Was up at 3:50am to get to the airport and had a packed day so no running.

Fri Feb 28 - Got the packed work day out of the way and enjoyed a few hotel beverages. Brought a couple of clients over to visit a supplier, one of them, a good friend is also a runner. We both packed our gear. Got up at about 8.30 and got the 8 miler in with a nice run over the German border and back. Finished it off with 8x 100m strides in the hotel car park. At the turnaround we ran by a weiner shnitzel factory, smelt like it anyway. Jaysus there was ateing and drinking in the stink of it. Took about 40 hours for it to remove itself from my nostrils. Nice easy run, about 5:50km av and 127bpm.

Sat Feb 29 - 10m aerobic. 5:31, 132bpm. Ran Corkagh parkrun and added another couple of laps. Every week there Jim Aughney runs around after the event collecting the signs. I joined him and had a really great chat. We talked a good bit about training. He was telling me all about his days competing, and interestingly, how we train much smarter these days. Gave me some great advice. Really enjoyed it. Told him about my Tue run and it turns out he runs that stretch every day too and ran by there himself not long after it happened. More shivers.

Sun March 1 - 12m endurance on the plan.
I like to work out what I'm gonna do on these runs after I set off. It passes the time really well I find. I'll know what HR I'm gonna set out at, it's just the progression I like to leave until I'm running. Decided today to up it to 20k and do 3k at 125bpm, 3k at 130, 7k at 135 and 7k at 140. Ran the back road between Newcastle and Celbridge for a nice change. Meant I would run through Castletown. Tbh, I'm getting really bored with my usual routes. It's the type of run you can only do on a Sunday. There's a stretch of about a mile and a half where there's no footpaths, so it's a little dodgy. It's ok on a Sunday but if there was a footpath I'd run it every day.
Felt pretty strong in the closing few miles, feels like I could likely hold that effort for a marathon after a block. I'm estimating that to be about 3:35 at this point, so things seem to be looking good for Dublin if I can stay consistent.

Total miles for the week - 45.62

Lazare

Plan this week was to just repeat last week to line up with Cork.


Tue March 3 - 10m aerobic on the schedule but I just could not rouse myself at 5:40am. I think the 3:45am rise the previous Thurs for the work trip was still affecting me.
Decided to double.

AM - 5m - 5:37km, 124bpm. Nice and easy, kept the HR <130.

PM - 5m - 5:30km, 130bpm. Marginal increase on the morning's effort.

Wed March 4 - 5m aerobic. Legs felt heavy on this one. Kept it very easy. 5:48km, 118 bpm.

Thurs March 5 - Last week had 8x strides on the Thurs but the plan alternated between strides and tempos so I decided to make the stuff bit tempo.
8m total with 24 mins of tempo. Very enjoyable run. Felt very comfortable.

Sat March 7 - 10m aerobic. Was signed up to volunteer at parkrun so got up and out at 6.30 to get it in beforehand. Can't be away half the day on a Saturday. 5:39km, 124bpm. Nice running on quiet roads for a change.

Sun March 8 - 12m endurance on the plan. Didn't happen. Wife had plans with a friend, a late breakfast meet up. Also gave her a lie in so couldn't run early. Is d'wimmins day afterall.

She didn't get back until almost 4 and tbh I just had lost the appetite for almost 2 hours of running at that point. Had a Sunday roast beef to sort too which I'm in the middle of right now. So just went out for 5 miles to do at least something. Not too bothered, have decent miles in the legs.

Total mileage for the week: 38.34.

Still haven't made a decision re coaching. Wanted to have my mind made up by now but procrastinated.
I'm going to launch into FRR's 45 to 60mpw half plan and make my mind up over the next few days.

Enjoyed that phase, but looking forward to a little more stuff. Feel in really good shape from it. Loving the HR training very much. It's so much simpler than the idea I had in my head. Haven't used pace as a guide since December, only have the HR displayed on the watch and I feel a better stronger runner because of it. It's tangible too. I'm a little over two months running by HR and I feel gains that I've never felt before.
Being able to guarantee all the running you do is targeting what it's supposed to is the reason. It's a no-brainer, I'll never look back I think, and would heartily recommend.