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US Presidential Election 2020

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    #6602
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Even snopes doesn't agree with the narrative you are all pushing.

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-vote-twice-north-carolina/


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    #6603
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,026 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Haven't heard about that. Are you sure it wasn't a joke? Any detail of this from a reputable source (not sure any exist these days)

    Is trump a reputable source when it comes to things that trump says by any chance?

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #6604
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,407 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    StringerBell wrote: »
    Is trump a reputable source when it comes to things that trump says by any chance?

    Well we usually get the same supporters come in and say

    "Yes...he said that....but he didn't mean that....what he REALLY meant was (insert persons own thoughts)"

    So apparently, according to some we can't actually believe what Trump says because we haven't the inside knowledge to know what he REALLY meant.


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    #6605
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    StringerBell wrote: »
    Is trump a reputable source when it comes to things that trump says by any chance?

    You all were obviously not listening very carefully. He did not encourage fraud.


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    #6606
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,001 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    stefanovich wrote: »
    There is no signature or security on the ballot itself. The envelope and slip are more secure but if you read the article I posted above a technique used was to open the envelope and replace the ballot with a forgery.

    OK - And how exactly are one type of mail-in ballot more susceptible to this type of fraud than the other?

    Of course someone could do the above - That's not really the issue , the true question is - Could someone does this at a scale sufficient to influence the outcome of an State level or National Election?

    There hasn't been a single example of Voter fraud actually having a material impact on a result, really ever.

    On a few occasions as result has been set aside or re-run for "fear" that it might have , but the likelihood of someone being able to fraudulently intercept the tens of thousands of votes that would be required for it to matter is infinitesimally small.

    And Trump along with everyone else knows this , but stoking fear is his stock and trade.


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    #6607
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    OK - And how exactly are one type of mail-in ballot more susceptible to this type of fraud than the other?

    Of course someone could do the above - That's not really the issue , the true question is - Could someone does this at a scale sufficient to influence the outcome of an State level or National Election?

    There hasn't been a single example of Voter fraud actually having a material impact on a result, really ever.

    On a few occasions as result has been set aside or re-run for "fear" that it might have , but the likelihood of someone being able to fraudulently intercept the tens of thousands of votes that would be required for it to matter is infinitesimally small.

    And Trump along with everyone else knows this , but stoking fear is his stock and trade.

    Did you read this article I posted earlier?

    https://nypost.com/2020/08/29/political-insider-explains-voter-fraud-with-mail-in-ballots/


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    #6608
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,026 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    stefanovich wrote: »
    You all were obviously not listening very carefully. He did not encourage fraud.

    We all what? I have no idea what you mean there. I'm asking a question, is trump a reputable source for things trump says?

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #6609
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,068 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Did you read this article I posted earlier?

    https://nypost.com/2020/08/29/political-insider-explains-voter-fraud-with-mail-in-ballots/

    I thought you Trump fans don't believe in anonymous sources?


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    #6610
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    StringerBell wrote: »
    We all what? I have no idea what you mean there. I'm asking a question, is trump a reputable source for things trump says?

    He is, but he never encouraged anyone to commit voter fraud and no one who could be held accountable has accused him of it.


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    #6611
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,001 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    stefanovich wrote: »
    I see two possible realities.

    a) The system is secure and duplicates will be uncovered
    b) The system is insecure and open to fraud - proving Trump's point.

    Which is it?

    It doesn't matter - In both cases , the President of the United States will be guilty under State and Federal law of encouraging Voter Fraud and any of his supporters that do it will also be guilty.

    However to answer the question , it will be A

    Johnny Trump-Supporter votes by mail , then goes and votes in person (he won't be stopped as they will not know at that point that he has voted by mail)

    When they begin to process the mail-in votes they will get to the mail-in vote for Johnny Trump-Supporter and see that according to the records he voted in person on voting day.

    The mail-in vote will be rejected on that basis and the information will be forwarded to law-enforcement and Johnny Trump Supporter goes to jail.


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    #6612
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    It doesn't matter - In both cases , the President of the United States will be guilty under State and Federal law of encouraging Voter Fraud and any of his supporters that do it will also be guilty.

    However to answer the question , it will be A

    Johnny Trump-Supporter votes by mail , then goes and votes in person (he won't be stopped as they will not know at that point that he has voted by mail)

    When they begin to process the mail-in votes they will get to the mail-in vote for Johnny Trump-Supporter and see that according to the records he voted in person on voting day.

    The mail-in vote will be rejected on that basis and the information will be forwarded to law-enforcement and Johnny Trump Supporter goes to jail.

    But he did not encourage voter fraud. He said to check if they had been tabulated and if they are not tabulated that they should have been by that time.

    It is only a crime to purposefully defraud not to ensure your single vote is counted.

    The officials sole complaint was that it would cause delays and encourage spread of covid on the day.


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    #6613
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,026 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    stefanovich wrote: »
    He is, but he never encouraged anyone to commit voter fraud and no one who could be held accountable has accused him of it.

    I don't know why you keep talking about voter fraud, I asked whether he is a reputable source for himself (obviously he isn't a reputable source for much else) for future reference. You have answered, thank you.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #6614
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,001 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Did you read this article I posted earlier?

    https://nypost.com/2020/08/29/political-insider-explains-voter-fraud-with-mail-in-ballots/

    Yes I did - It does not explain nor suggest at all that it somehow might be easier to carry out this type of fraud on one type of mail-in ballot over another though.

    I do not dispute that this kind of fraud could take place , of course it could.

    The 2 key questions in the context of Trumps complaints are -
    1. What makes this more likely to happen for the "generic" mail-in ballots vs. the typical "requested" Absentee ballots.
    2. Is there ANY evidence that this could be done at sufficient scale to impact a Presidential Election?

    We even have a quote from the alleged fraudster
    The smaller the race, the easier it is to do.
    so even he admits that impacting a large State wide or National election is much harder to do than impacting a small local election - the example he gave was for "a fire commissioner’s race in Burlington County" .


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    #6615
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,001 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    stefanovich wrote: »
    But he did not encourage voter fraud. He said to check if they had been tabulated and if they are not tabulated that they should have been by that time.

    It is only a crime to purposefully defraud not to ensure your single vote is counted.

    The officials sole complaint was that it would cause delays and encourage spread of covid on the day.

    It's weasel-words from Trump to give him protection from the inevitable court cases.

    He says "Check if your vote has been tabulated , if it hasn't then vote in person"

    So - Johnny Trump-Supporter rocks up to the vote centre and asks "Is my mail in vote tabulated"

    Vote-staff responds " I couldn't possibly tell you sir , we don't even look at that stuff until after polling closes"

    Johnny Trump Supporter then goes and votes and ends up in Jail.

    And when someone tries to go after Trump he hides behind the Weasel-words and says "Well I didn't technically tell them to commit voter fraud"


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    #6616
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 18,992 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Excuse my unparliamentary language, but the ****ing balls on Trump to give out about allegex rigging of an election, when his campaign were in contact with russians to get dirt on hillary, his campaign chair shared key polling data with a Russian Oligarch and Trump himself was impeached for pressuring the ukranians to get dirt on Biden.

    The word hypocrisy doesn't cut it.


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    #6617
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    It's weasel-words from Trump to give him protection from the inevitable court cases.

    He says "Check if your vote has been tabulated , if it hasn't then vote in person"

    So - Johnny Trump-Supporter rocks up to the vote centre and asks "Is my mail in vote tabulated"

    Vote-staff responds " I couldn't possibly tell you sir , we don't even look at that stuff until after polling closes"

    Johnny Trump Supporter then goes and votes and ends up in Jail.

    And when someone tries to go after Trump he hides behind the Weasel-words and says "Well I didn't technically tell them to commit voter fraud"

    I don't disagree with most of what you said but I doubt Johnny would end up in jail. It is only a crime to attempt to defraud. His intention would have been obvious and a crime would clearly not have been committed.


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    #6618
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    everlast75 wrote: »
    Excuse my unparliamentary language, but the ****ing balls on Trump to give out about allegex rigging of an election, when his campaign were in contact with russians to get dirt on hillary, his campaign chair shared key polling data with a Russian Oligarch and Trump himself was impeached for pressuring the ukranians to get dirt on Biden.

    The word hypocrisy doesn't cut it.

    Let's see what happens with Burisma and Hunter Biden.


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    #6619
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,142 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    stefanovich wrote: »
    I don't disagree with most of what you said but I doubt Johnny would end up in jail. It is only a crime to attempt to defraud. His intention would have been obvious and a crime would clearly not have been committed.

    Try it, what have you got to lose? -trump


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    #6620
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 18,992 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Let's see what happens with Burisma and Hunter Biden.

    Oh this again.

    You need to stop reading the New York Post and watching Fox News.

    It rots the brain.


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    #6621
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    everlast75 wrote: »
    Oh this again.

    You need to stop reading the New York Post and watching Fox News.

    It rots the brain.

    How about reading senate reports?
    This has in no way gone away. Lots of very suspect behaviour on Hunter's part.

    When Joe is asked about it he starts shouting and finger pointing aggresively.

    https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Ukraine%20Report_FINAL.pdf


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    #6622
    dwayneshintzy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭dwayneshintzy


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Let's see what happens with Burisma and Hunter Biden.
    Republican Inquiry Finds No Evidence of Wrongdoing by Biden


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    #6623
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,407 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    stefanovich wrote: »
    I don't disagree with most of what you said but I doubt Johnny would end up in jail. It is only a crime to attempt to defraud. His intention would have been obvious and a crime would clearly not have been committed.

    Ignorance is not a defence, What if they ask has he voted by mail and he says yes. Should he then be stopped from voting in person?


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    #6624
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,407 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    stefanovich wrote: »
    How about reading senate reports?
    This has in no way gone away. Lots of very suspect behaviour on Hunter's part.

    When Joe is asked about it he starts shouting and finger pointing aggresively.

    https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Ukraine%20Report_FINAL.pdf

    Whats your thoughts on Eric Trump and the allegations against him? He actually works in the whitehouse, one of Trumps family and closest members of staff.


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    #6625
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    While the Trump Dumpster-Fire Presidency stumbles from one cack-handed response to another, an additional thousand or so U.S. souls departed this life yesterday due to Covid-19. R.I.P.

    This keeps the USA under Trump firmly in the Top 10 of Covid deaths per million population. The current figure of 627 deaths/million allows the USA to retain the 10th spot according to Worldmeters..

    Clearly, a tremendous result from the so-called "Greatest Nation on Earth"!!!

    Oh, and according to the Great Leader, Covid affects "hardly anyone" (except the elderly... But who needs them... They're gonna die soon anyway...)!!

    This Presidency MUST be replaced!


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    #6626
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,001 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Let's see what happens with Burisma and Hunter Biden.

    We know what happened - Absolutely nothing.

    The Senate "report" came out and it found absolutely ZERO evidence of illegal behaviour , their star witness confirmed this. The worst they found was a report saying that "It didn't look great , but nothing illegal occurred".

    What it did find though was Rick Perry up to his neck in it.

    Like every single one of the "investigations" from the GOP over the last decade into "CORRUPTION" , "FRAUD" , "HOAX!" they found absolutely nothing of consequence.

    The Durham report will be the more of the same , as evidenced by the fact that he's started to try and poke around the Clinton foundation again in a vain effort to find something, anything of note to report.


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    #6627
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,142 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    TomOnBoard wrote: »
    While the Trump Dumpster-Fire Presidency stumbles from one cack-handed response to another, an additional thousand or so U.S. souls departed this life yesterday due to Covid-19. R.I.P.

    This keeps the USA under Trump firmly in the Top 10 of Covid deaths per million population. The current figure of 627 deaths/million allows the USA to retain the 10th spot according to Worldmeters..

    Clearly, a tremendous result from the so-called "Greatest Nation on Earth"!!!

    Oh, and according to the Great Leader, Covid affects "hardly anyone" (except the elderly... But who needs them... They're gonna die soon anyway...)!!

    This Presidency MUST be replaced!
    Two of those (Andorra and San Marino) can be ruled out due to the size of the actual population


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    #6628
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    We know what happened - Absolutely nothing.

    The Senate "report" came out and it found absolutely ZERO evidence of illegal behaviour , their star witness confirmed this. The worst they found was a report saying that "It didn't look great , but nothing illegal occurred".

    What it did find though was Rick Perry up to his neck in it.

    Like every single one of the "investigations" from the GOP over the last decade into "CORRUPTION" , "FRAUD" , "HOAX!" they found absolutely nothing of consequence.

    The Durham report will be the more of the same , as evidenced by the fact that he's started to try and poke around the Clinton foundation again in a vain effort to find something, anything of note to report.

    The Johnson / Grassley report was a very obvious failure to deliver on anti-Biden smears that the likes of Trump, Giuliani and Johnson have been trying to develop for years now. The fact that 2 U.S. Senators used their positions to support a narrative that has been propagated mostly by Putin's machine, and allowed that Senate to become an arm of Russia's ongoing propaganda and misinformation interference in the US Presidential Election is despicable. In other times, such collusion with a foreign power to undermine the democratic processes of the State would be seen for what it is: Treason!

    This wasn't an investigation... It was a fishing expedition that used charts provided by Russia, and all it caught was Rick Perry, one of its own worms!


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    #6629
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,068 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Topics for the 1st debate next Tuesday - 15 minutes on each topic:

    - The Trump and Biden Records
    - The Supreme Court
    - Covid-19
    - The Economy
    - Race and Violence in our Cities
    - The Integrity of the Election


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    #6630
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,407 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Topics for the 1st debate next Tuesday - 15 minutes on each topic:

    - The Trump and Biden Records
    - The Supreme Court
    - Covid-19
    - The Economy
    - Race and Violence in our Cities
    - The Integrity of the Election

    The last subject should be fun, Trump will be a jibbering wreck at that stage and will go off on a rant voicing all of his wild conspiracy theories.


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    #6631
    eire4
    Registered Users Posts: 6,628 ✭✭✭eire4


    droidus wrote: »
    This is clearly insane, but there is some truth beneath the madness.

    The US has been a proto-fascist state for a very long time. From its obsession with nationalist indoctrination, fetishisation and valorisation of the military, pursuit of endless war, religious insanity in government, imprisonment and oppression of non-people... the list is endless.

    What Trump has done is made explicit some of the worst tendencies of American society and politics and mixed them with his own particular psychopathic brand of racist authoritarianism. It's been said a thousand times that he is the symptom and not the cause and the conditions which enable a Trump (or someone like him) to flourish have been in place for quite some time.

    Sadly that is very accurate. This is who the US is in the modern world and voting the president out will not change that as the president is just the symptom not the cause and until the US deals with the actual causes it will continue to be lurch further and further towards being a full on outright authoritarian dictatorship.


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