US Presidential Election 2020

everlast75

Rjd2 wrote: »

The issue some on the Trump right have with the judges yes they are conservative, but they feel they are more lefty on social issues than economic where they nearly always side with big business.

Mitch doesn't give a **** about gay marriage, abortion instead he wants to keep the wealthy donors happy by appointing judges who vote with them.

Their has been rulings recently where their has been grumblings about these judges, so if Pence was shunted for someone like Hailey,,,**** would hit the fan.

They wouldn't become dem's overnight, but turnout would be depressed enough to ensure a landslide for Biden.

Trump needs to pander to the social conservatives, because its to late and he is not clever enough to woo many other bases.

So, if dumping Pence would **** things up royally for Trump, I'm off down to Paddy Power to bet on him doing it.

The manner in which he is destroying his own re-election prospects is quite something to behold. It seems almost wilful

Quin_Dub

everlast75 wrote: »

So, if dumping Pence would **** things up royally for Trump, I'm off down to Paddy Power to bet on him doing it.

The manner in which he is destroying his own re-election prospects is quite something to behold. It seems almost wilful

Bill Kristol was reckoning the other day that the reason he cancelled his alleged "throwing of the 1st pitch for the yankees" was that he was going to be announcing his new VP pick that day.

Kristol's thinking was that it was a few days before the Democrat Convention where Biden is going to be announcing his pick so this was Trumps way of stealing the media spotlight away from Biden as Trump ditching Pence would be probably bigger news than whoever Biden announces.

Whilst I get that Trump is obsessed with ratings and firmly believes that he needs to "own" the media schedule I'm not sure that even he would dump Pence at this stage.

As others have said , Pence is a key tie to the evangelicals who along with Non college educated White men are only demographic group where Trump holds a lead over Biden, so ditching him would a a huge call.

Even if picking a Nikki Haley might (and it's a huge might) win him a few more moderate GOP/Independent voters it would likely be more than offset by the loss of likely voters from the evangelicals.

Changing VP is not what might help Trump win - A viable vaccine or a massive upswing in the Economy before the Election are his only legitimate hopes at this point.

He's still got voter suppression and a hat full of lawsuits if it's a close result in a few GOP controlled states (I'm looking at you Florida & Georgia) but they are not legitimate paths to victory.

ELM327

Pence is a very important part in Trump's arsenal
Combined with the SCOTUS appointments, it ensures the evangelical vote. He will not be dumping pence. If he does he may as well concede now. Evangelicals are a key component of his voter base.

These people seeing the madness of the burning looting mobs may be more energized to vote this time than last.

RBG is about to kick the bucket surely, so there's another seat coming very soon.

everlast75

ELM327 wrote: »

Pence is a very important part in Trump's arsenal
Combined with the SCOTUS appointments, it ensures the evangelical vote. He will not be dumping pence. If he does he may as well concede now. Evangelicals are a key component of his voter base.

Perhaps

ELM327 wrote: »

These people seeing the madness of the burning looting mobs may be more energized to vote this time than last.

Some people see the police brutality, along with the federal enforcement agencies combined with Trump stoking racial tensions and seem quite energised too.

ELM327 wrote: »

RBG is about to kick the bucket surely, so there's another seat coming very soon.

A shocking lack of respect and unnecessarily crude. Ghoulish in fact.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Pence is a very important part in Trump's arsenal
Combined with the SCOTUS appointments, it ensures the evangelical vote. He will not be dumping pence. If he does he may as well concede now. Evangelicals are a key component of his voter base.

These people seeing the madness of the burning looting mobs may be more energized to vote this time than last.

RBG is about to kick the bucket surely, so there's another seat coming very soon.

I feel you'll be praising Trump for his sense if he suddenly decided to drop Pence. He's also started to lose evangelicals. Wonder if tear gassing his way to a church factored in..

ELM327

everlast75 wrote: »

Perhaps

Some people see the police brutality, along with the federal enforcement agencies combined with Trump stoking racial tensions and seem quite energised too.

A shocking lack of respect and unnecessarily crude. Ghoulish in fact.

Alleged police brutality does not excuse burning and looting mobs.


RBG is a good example of why they need to introduce term limits to SCOTUS judges.

Deleted User wrote: »

I feel you'll be praising Trump for his sense if he suddenly decided to drop Pence. He's also started to lose evangelicals. Wonder if tear gassing his way to a church factored in..

No, I would not.
Mark my words. If trump drops pence he will lose the election.
The only, only potential caveat to that is if he appoints a black female evangelical.

Carfacemandog

ELM327 wrote: »

Pence is a very important part in Trump's arsenal
Combined with the SCOTUS appointments, it ensures the evangelical vote. He will not be dumping pence. If he does he may as well concede now. Evangelicals are a key component of his voter base.

These people seeing the madness of the burning looting mobs may be more energized to vote this time than last.

RBG is about to kick the bucket surely, so there's another seat coming very soon.

Evangelicals will vote for Trump with or without Pence for the same reasons they were his single strongest base in 2016, and it has nothing go do with protests nor religion.

everlast75

ELM327 wrote: »

Alleged police brutality does not excuse burning and looting mobs.

Alleged? Really? Really????

And perhaps it does not excuse it, but having a black people murdered, some even on camera and there being a cover up and reluctance to hold those into account, tends to make people angry and irrational.

ELM327 wrote: »

RBG is a good example of why they need to introduce term limits to SCOTUS judges.

1) even if she is too old to be a judge, it doesn't excuse what you said earlier
2) why did you focus in on her?

ELM327 wrote: »

If trump drops pence he will lose the election.
The only, only potential caveat to that is if he appoints a black female evangelical.

I note you accept that Trump's evangelical base are racist.

Tell me how

ELM327 wrote: »

Alleged police brutality does not excuse burning and looting mobs.

At this point, I expect the proportion of police forces with instances of police brutality is greater than the proportion of protests with burning and looting mobs.

There are still protests every weekend in my city, with zero trouble at them.

Igotadose

ELM327 wrote: »

RBG is a good example of why they need to introduce term limits to SCOTUS judges.

Spit my coffee moment there. Incompetents like Clarence Thomas are a reason for term limits on the SCOTUS. He's not 1/10th the justice Ginsburg is. Bad decisions, asks no questions in Court, just an all-around bad judge.


Really, Elm, with your pro-choice position you should want more justices like RBG. Imagine another Kavanaugh in her place. Or worse, another Clarence Thomas.

Faugheen

RBG is a walking advertisement for no term limits. She’s phenomenal.

Water John

Watching JB doing Q & A and he's quite impressive. Much moreso than when he was delivering his speech.

Itssoeasy

I'm listening to joe Biden on CNN take questions and the difference is stark between him and trump in just ability to form sentences and form a coherent thought.

Penn

Just a shame Biden's Q&A was on at the same time as Barr's hearing. All of the focus should be on that, and he got rightfully destroyed by some of the Dems, Jayapal in particular.

Water John

He says he thinks the Dems will take the Senate.

Itssoeasy

Penn wrote: »

Just a shame Biden's Q&A was on at the same time as Barr's hearing. All of the focus should be on that, and he got rightfully destroyed by some of the Dems, Jayapal in particular.

Oh yeah that hearing was today. Jayapal ? That name doesn't ring a bell with me but from your post he went in hard on AG Barr.

Itssoeasy

I'm not watching I'm listening but it comes across that Biden knows how the government works.

Itssoeasy

I mean he was asked what sets him apart from trump and he answered it very well and it sounded like knew what he was on about.

Muahahaha

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Bill Kristol was reckoning the other day that the reason he cancelled his alleged "throwing of the 1st pitch for the yankees" was that he was going to be announcing his new VP pick that day.

Kristol's thinking was that it was a few days before the Democrat Convention where Biden is going to be announcing his pick so this was Trumps way of stealing the media spotlight away from Biden as Trump ditching Pence would be probably bigger news than whoever Biden announces.
.

Has Biden said lately that he is going to hold off on the VP pick till Aug 15th? All the media saying he committed to August 1st which is this coming Saturday. He might delay it until the convention on the 15th but I havent heard him say he is.

Water John

He said it would be the first week of August. Not sure whether that meant finalising or announcing.
Reporter was wondering would he meet the candidates in person. JB was laughing saying, with you all watching my house?

Itssoeasy

Muahahaha wrote: »

Has Biden said lately that he is going to hold off on the VP pick till Aug 15th? All the media saying he committed to August 1st which is this coming Saturday. He might delay it until the convention on the 15th but I havent heard him say he is.

CNN were saying the Biden campaign still expects it be early August.

Penn

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Oh yeah that hearing was today. Jayapal ? That name doesn't ring a bell with me but from your post he went in hard on AG Barr.

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1288204827969953793?s=19

Headshot

I've only seen parts of Barr's testifying before the house Judiciary but in those parts he was destroyed. It was great to see him squirm and getting what he deserves

Carfacemandog

Headshot wrote: »

I've only seen parts of Barr's testifying before the house Judiciary but in those parts he was destroyed. It was great to see him squirm and getting what he deserves

What was his sentence?

Overheal

Water John wrote: »

He says he thinks the Dems will take the Senate.

Not surprising because there are more at-risk Republican seats than Democrat seats by a good margin. But, anything could happen.

Water John

He was making the point, that he wouldn't neglect any state in his campaign as a help to the others down the ticket.

paul71

Curiosity here. While not being enamoured of antifa, my attitude to them could be described as ambivalent.

At what stage in American history did being anti facist become viewed as extreme left wing?

TomOnBoard

paul71 wrote: »

Curiosity here. While not being enamoured of antifa, my attitude to them could be described as ambivalent.

At what stage in American history did being anti facist become viewed as extreme left wing?

Good question.

While anti-fascism has existed for decades, the 'antifa' umbrella is being largely linked these days to a 'movement' comprising individuals and autonomous groups whose umbrella philosophy involves militant opposition to white supremacist, nazi, neo-nazi, far- and ultra- right organisations and their apparently tolerated militancy. The Anti-Racist Action network of the 1980s was influenced by the punk 'movement's' standing up to white power skinhead and neo Nazi groups at music festivals and gigs in Midwest USA. It was fairly dormant by the new millennium and morphed into Antifa with the resurgence of neo-Nazi and nationalist movements around the world up to the early-mid part of this decade. In the US, Trump's outright nationalism electioneering and his election as POTUS identified Federal Government as a target of an increasingly militant US Antifa presence particularly the north/western quarter of the country.

So, the answer to your question may be that, as the US Federal Govt moved further into policies and actions that appear increasingly hard-line and tending to totalitarianism/fascism from the Right who hold power, the Left-leaning opposition adopts a more overt antipathy to fascism. The range of extreme groups on the Right could be collectively seen as 'Profa', leading to 'Antifa' being seen as extreme Left. Of course, these are labels designed to coalesce division and polarize opposites, trying to split the non-aligned middle. Recent Federal intervention in Seattle and Portland are designed to divide, and allow Trump to trot out 'law and order' rhetoric to deflect attention away from the economy and Covid and stoke fear in white voters. The language being used by Barr and others, characterizing protesters en masse as looters and terrorists is part of the same deflection and division effort. In a way, the Democrats, as the party of the US Left (such as it is) are being boxed in by GoP messaging, as Democrat intolerance of recent Federal Govt extreme actions drifts into Antifa territory in ideological terms, making it easier for the GoP to paint the Dems as Antifa bedfellows.

The Antifa violence is fuelled by anarchists (of both extremes) and is not helping at all. The attempts by both extremes to 'burn it all down' simply gives increased cover for increasingly violent responses from the Government in the name of 'Law and Order'.

paul71

Ok, so essentially Anti Facism, which to my mind is a mainstream view that should be aspired to by everyone has been appropriated by anarchists, hence the justification for calling them extreme.

Do they aspire to the same goals as Anarchists of the Ukraine in 1920s and Spain of the 1930s (seems unrealistic) or simply a protest movement.

Quin_Dub

The whole focus on "AntiFa" in the US is that the Right needed a counter-weight to the right-wing terror groups - The White Supremacists , the Three Percenters etc.

AntiFa was kind of the only "name brand" left wing activist group around so they have latched on to it and now any and all protests/protesters about the current Administration are labelled AntiFa to try and impute a level of organisation and cohesion among the various protests that largely does not exist.

Even actual Antifa does not have a leadership structure , it's a loosely bound collective with similar ideals who, unlike the Ring-wing terror groups in the US have not been responsible for any deaths thus far.

I don't condone violence and looting in any way , but the attempts by Trump and his cronies to try and label it all as "Left-wing terrorism" is pathetic.