The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

Oat23

Patww79 wrote: »

Half the league is a strong market to end up with not all that much.

https://twitter.com/GehlkenNFL/status/1036065916277018624

We got him for 2 first round picks, which itself is a steal. But then they decided they wanted our 3rd round pick so they gave us their 2nd. Then they wanted our 6th so they gave us a 5th.


There's no way a seasoned NFL exec with nearly 25 years experience made that trade. It's all Gruden.

Foxtrol

brinty wrote: »

I along with every cowboys fan I know is stunned and does not understand the move at all.

Dans numbers have been dropping but he’s Dan bailey. Second most accurate kicker in nfl history. It’s not about money we’d 14m in cap space already.there was no indication there was a contest going on.maher was considered a camp leg and even did some punting during camp so there were no flags to indicate this was ever happening.

Making cap space for a potential move for Earl Thomas?

brinty

Foxtrol wrote:

Making cap space for a potential move for Earl Thomas?

We've 17m free next week
Could've had Thomas already

BonnieSituation

Looks like we're cutting Lynch (finally) and claimed Kevin Hogan.

I know not of him. Anyone?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000957666/article/broncos-cutting-former-firstround-pick-paxton-lynch

jack presley

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Looks like we're cutting Lynch (finally) and claimed Kevin Hogan.

I know not of him. Anyone?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000957666/article/broncos-cutting-former-firstround-pick-paxton-lynch

He's been with the Redskins this offseason. Played in a few of the pre-season games. Was only so-so. Good in parts but also poor on occasions.

eagle eye

Gruden isn't stupid, there has to be a very good reason for him getting rid of Mack.
The contract he got is ridiculous, like $90 million guaranteed over six years is just sick. I'd be willing to give that to an elite QB but not a player in any other position.

Foxtrol

Oat23 wrote: »

Show me anyone who seriously thinks that.

People shouting SUPERBOWL and posting superfan GIFs on twitter don't count. That's obviously a joke.

If anyone has their finger on the pulse of the people...

https://twitter.com/kanyewest/status/1036118795629129728

jack presley

Cleveland claimed 5 players off waivers today so they now have 31 players on their roster that weren't there last year. Talk about a complete overhaul.

JaMarcus

eagle eye wrote: »

Gruden isn't stupid, there has to be a very good reason for him getting rid of Mack.
The contract he got is ridiculous, like $90 million guaranteed over six years is just sick. I'd be willing to give that to an elite QB but not a player in any other position.

Yeah, it's easy for teams like Chicago and St Louis to give out these huge contracts to non-QBs while their own QBs are on rookie deals.

Oakland did not have that luxury and I'm not surprised they traded him.

TOss Sweep

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Looks like we're cutting Lynch (finally) and claimed Kevin Hogan.

I know not of him. Anyone?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000957666/article/broncos-cutting-former-firstround-pick-paxton-lynch

No better than Lynch. Solid in college but drafted by the Chiefs ended up on the Browns and didn't do a lot and looked like a deer in headlights. Needs a lot of work.

Paully D

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Bears get: Khalil Mack, a 2020 second-round round pick and a conditional 2020 fifth-round pick.

Raiders get: 2019 first-round pick, 2020 first-round pick, 2020 third-round pick, 2019 sixth-round pick.

Fantastic deal for the Bears.

If you asked every team in the league if they’d give up their last 2 first round picks for Mack, not many of them would say no.

Jolly Red Giant

TOss Sweep wrote: »

No better than Lynch. Solid in college but drafted by the Chiefs ended up on the Browns and didn't do a lot and looked like a deer in headlights. Needs a lot of work.

If anything he is worse than Lynch - but Elway needed to cut the deadwood.

I suspect that Hogan will be a roster casualty if anyone makes a move for Jeff Holland.

P.S. - the word out of Denver is that they dumped Lynch and claimed Hogan because they didn't think Lynch could run the scout team.

Oat23

Paully D wrote: »

Fantastic deal for the Bears.

If you asked every team in the league if they’d give up their last 2 first round picks for Mack, not many of them would say no.

In the last 30 years, Urlacher drafted 18 years ago is the only 1R pick we've made that is on the same level or even a level close to Mack. That's how bad we are in the first round

Jolly Red Giant

jack presley wrote: »

Cleveland claimed 5 players off waivers today so they now have 31 players on their roster that weren't there last year. Talk about a complete overhaul.

Broncos have 22 who weren't on the roster last year - including 10 rookies.

Realt Dearg Sec

Oat23 wrote: »

Paully D wrote: »

Fantastic deal for the Bears.

If you asked every team in the league if they’d give up their last 2 first round picks for Mack, not many of them would say no.

In the last 30 years, Urlacher drafted 18 years ago is the only 1R pick we've made that is on the same level or even a level close to Mack. That's how bad we are in the first round

And actually if you add up the likely draft capital we gave up for him, mack cost less than our other starting edge rusher, Floyd. Costs more in cap, obviously, but you don't win games with a bunch of guys rescued from the bargain bin.

Now if trubisky doesn't work out we're in trouble, but that is no more true today than it was two days ago. We may not have the picks to replace him easily in that case, but they can't approach the future hedging against the QB, either it's worth taking a chance or it isn't. I'd rather take a shot at being a relevant team and fail, than be mediocre to bad again and hear about off season about being patient with the process and patient with the rebuild and patient with the system and patient with the HC and patient with the GM. that's only all me boll0cks to be honest. It may work or it may not, but it shows they're serious about winning. I'll never hold this decision against the team, ever.

And looking at the defense we have, and the coordinator in charge, I think we could be a serious headache for teams this year.

BaronVon

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

If anything he is worse than Lynch - but Elway needed to cut the deadwood.

I suspect that Hogan will be a roster casualty if anyone makes a move for Jeff Holland.

P.S. - the word out of Denver is that they dumped Lynch and claimed Hogan because they didn't think Lynch could run the scout team.

Saw this earlier, there's been a lot of turnover.....

Foxtrol

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Broncos have 22 who weren't on the roster last year - including 10 rookies.

They cut half of their 2017 draft class which isn't a great look especially when you add Lynch going when picked in the first round in 2016. You'd have to hope the drafting/UDFA pick ups of those 10 rookies is a bit better.

BonnieSituation

Foxtrol wrote: »

They cut half of their 2017 draft class which isn't a great look especially when you add Lynch going when picked in the first round in 2016. You'd have to hope the drafting/UDFA pick ups of those 10 rookies is a bit better.

2017 really was an all'round **** show.

Not to get ahead but there does feel like there's a different mood about the place. But easy to say that on the other side of the world on Week 0.

Jolly Red Giant

Foxtrol wrote: »

They cut half of their 2017 draft class which isn't a great look especially when you add Lynch going when picked in the first round in 2016. You'd have to hope the drafting/UDFA pick ups of those 10 rookies is a bit better.

Actually - the 2017 class is looking a bit better than it did last year -

5 are currently on the roster - Bolles, Walker, Butt, McKenzie and Kelly - and 2 are on the practice squad - Langley and Carlos Henderson.

De'Angelo Henderson signed with the Jets because in Denver he was behind a very good stable of RBs (and I like him and wished that Elway kept him).

All 8 draftees are still in the NFL in some capacity or another.

On top of that there are 2 UDFAs from 2017 on the roster - Dymonte Thomas and Wilkinson - and a third UDFA, Jamal Carter, who would have made the roster if he wasn't on IR, plus - Garcia-Williams - who is also on IR but would at least have been on the PS if fit.

Where Elway fell down in 2017 was reaching for raw guys with the two 3rd round picks - guys he could have got a lot later in the draft.

Loughc

I got a good chuckle out of this.

Paully D

Peterman named Bills starter. Can’t blame them not throwing Allen in against the defenses they play to start.

Hopefully the Ravens D will have a lot of fun with Peterman in week one! :pac:

phatkev

Paully D wrote: »

Peterman named Bills starter. Can’t blame them not throwing Allen in against the defenses they play to start.

Hopefully the Ravens D will have a lot of fun with Peterman in week one! :pac:

Yeah those defenses and the Bills oline can only result in bad times for the QB

madalig12

He should get extra danger money being sacrificed like that is cruel.

jack presley

https://twitter.com/jimmytraina/status/1036591266342088705?s=21

Foxtrol

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Actually - the 2017 class is looking a bit better than it did last year -

5 are currently on the roster - Bolles, Walker, Butt, McKenzie and Kelly - and 2 are on the practice squad - Langley and Carlos Henderson.

De'Angelo Henderson signed with the Jets because in Denver he was behind a very good stable of RBs (and I like him and wished that Elway kept him).

All 8 draftees are still in the NFL in some capacity or another.

On top of that there are 2 UDFAs from 2017 on the roster - Dymonte Thomas and Wilkinson - and a third UDFA, Jamal Carter, who would have made the roster if he wasn't on IR, plus - Garcia-Williams - who is also on IR but would at least have been on the PS if fit.

Where Elway fell down in 2017 was reaching for raw guys with the two 3rd round picks - guys he could have got a lot later in the draft.

Cutting half the draft class has it looking a bit better than it did last year

I don't want to know how bad it must have looked at that stage if this is an improvement

Billy86

Really weird, really interesting story about how the Chiefs RB coach found his birth dad: http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/24505521/the-jaw-dropping-story-nfl-coach-search-family

Jolly Red Giant

Foxtrol wrote: »

Cutting half the draft class has it looking a bit better than it did last year

I don't want to know how bad it must have looked at that stage if this is an improvement

Half the draft class has not been cut - 8 players were drafted - 5 are on the Broncos roster. That is not the case with, for example, the Pats who drafted 4 and 2 (half) have been cut by the Pats. Of the 3 cut - Carlos Henderson spent last season on IR, failed to turn up to training camp because of 'personal issues' and has been suspended Week 1 for smoking dope. Langley should never have been on the roster last season - he has physical abilities but probably needs 2-3 seasons to understand how to play in the nfl - he is on the PS and we will see if he is any good next year. I like DeAngelo Henderson - but RB is a dispensable position in the NFL and, like I said, the Broncos have some, good young RBs. I wouldn't be surprised to see Henderson make some plays for the Jets this year.

As for improvement - 2 of the 2017 draft class, Butt and Kelly, spent the entire season on IR - Butt will play a role as a receiving TE (Butt was projected as one of the top TEs in the draft and a 2nd rounder or higher - before his injury) and could well be the starting TE. Kelly has already seen off Paxton Lynch and is improving every week.

Garett Bolles was a penalty machine last season - playing alongside Garcia who couldn't block a paper bag - he has improved in the off-season and will benefit significantly from playing alongside Ron Leary.

Isaiah McKenzie was a fumble machine returning punts last season - during pre-season he has shown capable of hanging onto the ball, including returning a punt 78 yds for a TD against the Vikings.

DeMarcus Walker was made lose weight to play OLB last season - it was a stupid decision and he was utterly ineffectual. He has put the weight back on and is now playing his true position at DE - and is proving disruptive on passing downs. He will be a contributor on the DL rotation.

So - Yes - a significant improvement for the 2017 draft class over last year.

Jolly Red Giant

infacteh wrote: »

Saw this earlier, there's been a lot of turnover.....

There has - and Elway has drafted poorly - which will be forgotten if Kelly turns out to be a player.

However, there is also a SB win in among that lot - a win that required play from two of those QBs signed by Elway.

Not every team can have a HOF QB playing for 15 years.

Foxtrol

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Half the draft class has not been cut - 8 players were drafted - 5 are on the Broncos roster. That is not the case with, for example, the Pats who drafted 4 and 2 (half) have been cut by the Pats. Of the 3 cut - Carlos Henderson spent last season on IR, failed to turn up to training camp because of 'personal issues' and has been suspended Week 1 for smoking dope. Langley should never have been on the roster last season - he has physical abilities but probably needs 2-3 seasons to understand how to play in the nfl - he is on the PS and we will see if he is any good next year. I like DeAngelo Henderson - but RB is a dispensable position in the NFL and, like I said, the Broncos have some, good young RBs. I wouldn't be surprised to see Henderson make some plays for the Jets this year.

As for improvement - 2 of the 2017 draft class, Butt and Kelly, spent the entire season on IR - Butt will play a role as a receiving TE (Butt was projected as one of the top TEs in the draft and a 2nd rounder or higher - before his injury) and could well be the starting TE. Kelly has already seen off Paxton Lynch and is improving every week.

Garett Bolles was a penalty machine last season - playing alongside Garcia who couldn't block a paper bag - he has improved in the off-season and will benefit significantly from playing alongside Ron Leary.

Isaiah McKenzie was a fumble machine returning punts last season - during pre-season he has shown capable of hanging onto the ball, including returning a punt 78 yds for a TD against the Vikings.

DeMarcus Walker was made lose weight to play OLB last season - it was a stupid decision and he was utterly ineffectual. He has put the weight back on and is now playing his true position at DE - and is proving disruptive on passing downs. He will be a contributor on the DL rotation.

So - Yes - a significant improvement for the 2017 draft class over last year.

They cut 4 of their 8 draft picks. Just because they re-signed McKenzie after he made through waivers or a guy made it to PS doesn't mean they weren't cut.

Big difference in a team who made it to the Super Bowl cutting half of their draft class and a team that ended up with the 5th pick that year.

mikemac2

Jolly Red Giant

Foxtrol wrote: »

They cut 4 of their 8 draft picks. Just because they re-signed McKenzie after he made through waivers or a guy made it to PS doesn't mean they weren't cut.

McKenzie was cut to allow Cravens onto IR with a return after week 8. If McKenzie was claimed off waivers then either DeAngelo Henderson or Holland would have been brought back to the roster.

Foxtrol wrote: »

Big difference in a team who made it to the Super Bowl cutting half of their draft class and a team that ended up with the 5th pick that year.

And here was me thinking BB was a draft guru.

By the way - one of the reasons why the Broncos had the 5th pick was because the 2017 draft was so unproductive last year.

Billy86

I don't know that I've heard it said often that Belichick is a draft guru? The odd time sure because when you're around so long and the GOAT every plaudit will get thrown at you at some point, but he's far more often (and rightly) praised for his ability to use the draft and free agency to put together very solid teams with very few real weaknesses that can adapt to almost any opposition on both sides of the ball, have a very clear 'blue collar thinking men' character to them and are typically remarkably on the same page as an overall group.

TOss Sweep

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

And here was me thinking BB was a draft guru.
.

Said no one ever. Bill backs out of so many picks he is no draft guru. As Billy said Bill finds value outside the draft. The odd time he gets it right in the Draft but he has gotten it wrong more than a few times too many busts to think of. No different to any other coach really. The bonus to him him he doesn't bite on hype but also the drawback to that he has also passed on some quality also.

Any Pats fan or any fan that thinks Bill is a draft guru is a moron.

the baby bull elephant

Billy86 wrote: »

I don't know that I've heard it said often that Belichick is a draft guru? The odd time sure because when you're around so long and the GOAT every plaudit will get thrown at you at some point, but he's far more often (and rightly) praised for his ability to use the draft and free agency to put together very solid teams with very few real weaknesses that can adapt to almost any opposition on both sides of the ball, have a very clear 'blue collar thinking men' character to them and are typically remarkably on the same page as an overall group.

Yeah, it seems to be a common belief among Pats fans that Belichick the coach often bails out Belichick the GM.

Jolly Red Giant

Billy86 wrote: »

I don't know that I've heard it said often that Belichick is a draft guru? The odd time sure because when you're around so long and the GOAT every plaudit will get thrown at you at some point, but he's far more often (and rightly) praised for his ability to use the draft and free agency to put together very solid teams with very few real weaknesses that can adapt to almost any opposition on both sides of the ball, have a very clear 'blue collar thinking men' character to them and are typically remarkably on the same page as an overall group.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Said no one ever. Bill backs out of so many picks he is no draft guru. As Billy said Bill finds value outside the draft. The odd time he gets it right in the Draft but he has gotten it wrong more than a few times too many busts to think of. No different to any other coach really. The bonus to him him he doesn't bite on hype but also the drawback to that he has also passed on some quality also.

Any Pats fan or any fan that thinks Bill is a draft guru is a moron.

It is a lot easier to put a team together when the best QB in the NFL plays for a contract substantially below his 'market value - if only all the other 31 NFL teams were so lucky.

BonnieSituation

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

It is a lot easier to put a team together when the best QB in the NFL plays for a contract substantially below his 'market value - if only all the other 31 NFL teams were so lucky.

That's up to him to do that. We all know about the Pat's tax/discount.


God knows I'm no fan of them but it works, because it works, because it works.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

It is a lot easier to put a team together when the best QB in the NFL plays for a contract substantially below his 'market value - if only all the other 31 NFL teams were so lucky.

It's probably more beneficial that the best QB keeps playing to such a high standard than playing for less than what he could get. But Tom does get paid, not to the absolute maximum he could get, but that's a decision he makes.
It's also a lot more difficult to draft and put a team together when you make it to 12 AFC Championship games (the last 7 in a row) in the last 17 years.

Jolly Red Giant

munstermagic11 wrote: »

It's probably more beneficial that the best QB keeps playing to such a high standard than playing for less than what he could get. But Tom does get paid, not to the absolute maximum he could get, but that's a decision he makes.
It's also a lot more difficult to draft and put a team together when you make it to 12 AFC Championship games (the last 7 in a row) in the last 17 years.

The Pats have consistently been at the top - and having the best QB in the NFL helps - as does the millions extra for FAs to support him.

When Denver had a comparable QB they made two of four - beating the Pats both times.

Seriously - if you are trying to argue that Brady taking more than $10million a year less than Rodgers doesn't help the Pats maintain their position then you are living in cloud-cuckoo land. In 2018 Brady will be 18th on the list of highest paid in the NFL - there are 15 QBs paid more than him.

BonnieSituation

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The Pats have consistently been at the top - and having the best QB in the NFL helps - as does the millions extra for FAs to support him.

When Denver had a comparable QB they made two of four - beating the Pats both times.

Seriously - if you are trying to argue that Brady taking more than $10million a year less than Rodgers doesn't help the Pats maintain their position then you are living in cloud-cuckoo land. In 2018 Brady will be 18th on the list of highest paid in the NFL - there are 15 QBs paid more than him.

JRG, no one is arguing that.

TOss Sweep

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The Pats have consistently been at the top - and having the best QB in the NFL helps - as does the millions extra for FAs to support him.

When Denver had a comparable QB they made two of four - beating the Pats both times.

Seriously - if you are trying to argue that Brady taking more than $10million a year less than Rodgers doesn't help the Pats maintain their position then you are living in cloud-cuckoo land. In 2018 Brady will be 18th on the list of highest paid in the NFL - there are 15 QBs paid more than him.

Good old Rent a row here. Argue something no one is arguing about.

Does it help Brady take a pay cut? Of course it does you wont find anyone deny that and it they do they are clowns. But it also helps the Pats don't overpay players and get sucked in on one player. Every player in the NFL knows if you want to get paid going to New England is not the best course of action. But they also know you could win a Soup Bowl. So it comes down to money or the want to win.

But hey if you want to bring up arguments that don't exist have at it. You seriously do get triggered by Pats fans even when nothing has been said that should set you off.

Realt Dearg Sec

TOss Sweep wrote: »

But they also know you could win a Soup Bowl. .

I heard they enter all the free agents in a raffle. It's a big reason guys want to go to New England.

TOss Sweep

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I heard they enter all the free agents in a raffle. It's a big reason guys want to go to New England.

Bill just googles "Who should I sign from the FA" and picks at random. He also looks at Snapface and instachat from time to time

Agreed they have been able to convince some solid Veterans to join over the years due to the chance of possibly winning it all.

TOss Sweep

Incredible story about Kansas City Chiefs running backs coach Deland McCullough

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/24505521/the-jaw-dropping-story-nfl-coach-search-family

BonnieSituation

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Incredible story about Kansas City Chiefs running backs coach Deland McCullough

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/24505521/the-jaw-dropping-story-nfl-coach-search-family

I think that was posted up above?

Either way it's an amazing story. You couldn't write it if you tried for fear people would say it was too far fetched. Amazing.

Billy86

For reference, while he was quite cheap for a bit Tom Bradys cap number was bigger tha Rodgers this year and last. If I'm correct it was bigger than former mvps Cam Newton and Matt Ryan also, was more than any non QB and about 10th or so in the league. This year it is only a bit 4mn behind he second highest on the league (Garopollo is about 10mn higher again but a complete outlier and SF really wanted him and had tonnes of space to pay big now).

That said, I'm quite sure those numbers are from before Mack, Donald and Rodgers' deals of the last few days are taken into account. But this year and last there is no major advantage that existed a few seasons back... how did the Pats do last year again? Oh right, yet another Superbowl appearance. If I'm correct they are favourites or 2nd favourites again this year behind the Eagles.

EDIT: Correction - it is this year and next year I was thinking of, not last year and this year:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cap-hit/ (11th highest overall)
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/2019/cap-hit/ (5th highest overall)

helimachoptor

just had a read there, mad stuff

Billy86

BonnieSituation wrote: »

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Incredible story about Kansas City Chiefs running backs coach Deland McCullough

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/24505521/the-jaw-dropping-story-nfl-coach-search-family

I think that was posted up above?

Either way it's an amazing story. You couldn't write it if you tried for fear people would say it was too far fetched. Amazing.

TOss Sweep

Billy86 wrote: »

Unintentional I was on my phone all weekend and completely missed your post. But its a great story so no harm getting a 2nd post

Billy86

Ah yeah, no bothers either - I'll just take any excuse to post that gif.

Jolly Red Giant

BonnieSituation wrote: »

JRG, no one is arguing that.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Good old Rent a row here. Argue something no one is arguing about.

Actually @munstermagic11 argued that Brady playing at a high standard is more important than him taking significantly below his 'market value' - I would dispute that.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Does it help Brady take a pay cut? Of course it does you wont find anyone deny that and it they do they are clowns. But it also helps the Pats don't overpay players and get sucked in on one player. Every player in the NFL knows if you want to get paid going to New England is not the best course of action. But they also know you could win a Soup Bowl. So it comes down to money or the want to win.

And I would agree - having Brady and having a winning team is an enticement for FAs (again this contracdicts mmagic who argued that it is harder to put together a team when you keep winning championships.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

But hey if you want to bring up arguments that don't exist have at it. You seriously do get triggered by Pats fans even when nothing has been said that should set you off.

My arguments were not targeted at Pats fans at all - I was making a point - Pats fans chose to react.